GENIUS FORUMS

What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation. But when I again realize that the self is an illusion, wisdom - almost in response to the conflict of conceptual "ego" and "non-ego" - springs forth. Its as if I need to remind the ego of its illusory nature, for wisdom to allow itself to operate.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

Steven Coyle wrote:What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation. But when I again realize that the self is an illusion, wisdom - almost in response to the conflict of conceptual "ego" and "non-ego" - springs forth. Its as if I need to remind the ego of its illusory nature, for wisdom to allow itself to operate.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

Dude, this is gibberish.

You just don't understand your own ego.

Steven!

What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation.

Because the illusory self is the one applying. A fire can't extinguish itself.

But when I again realize that the self is an illusion, wisdom - almost in response to the conflict of conceptual "ego" and "non-ego" - springs forth. Its as if I need to remind the ego of its illusory nature, for wisdom to allow itself to operate.

Whatever works.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

Why should I make the illusory self conscious of its illusory nature?

Steven Coyle wrote:You just don't understand your own ego.

No. I think you're really talking about emotions interfering with your rationality.

What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation.

Because the illusory self is the one applying. A fire can't extinguish itself.

Ah, yes.

Thanks, Scott.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

Why should I make the illusory self conscious of its illusory nature?

Well, in order to remain conscious of cause and effect.

My problem is a fragile ego - leading to low self-esteem.

Steven Coyle wrote:

What often disrupts my consciousness of truth is a lack of penetrating wisdom. When I apply knowledge of the illusory nature of the self, it doesn't always help the situation.

Because the illusory self is the one applying. A fire can't extinguish itself.

Ah, yes.

Thanks, Scott.

What are your methods/observations for remaining conscious?

Why should I make the illusory self conscious of its illusory nature?

Well, in order to remain conscious of cause and effect.

My problem is a fragile ego - leading to low self-esteem.

Oh shit steven. I just noticed you're in ATL. Me too. Let's go get drunk!

Thanks for the offer, Mill.

Not feeling very social these days.

Blame it on the bi-polar.

Steven Coyle wrote:Thanks for the offer, Mill.

Not feeling very social these days.

Blame it on the bi-polar.

Shit man. Im crazy too. Everybody is. Well, let me know if you change your mind. I will get you laid.

It's all about positive self programming. That's why I fight against all the self negation that goes on here. The rest of the world is trying to figure out how to take over our country while we ponder our own existential belly lint.

Steven,

Well, in order to remain conscious of cause and effect.

Remaining conscious of cause and effect is illusory. No one on Earth can always remember the truth of cause and effect always. Our states of mind change all of the time. When a hot woman walks by the philosopher, I guarantee, for that split second they aren't remembering cause and effect.

Enlightenment is not remembering truths.

My problem is a fragile ego - leading to low self-esteem.

Figure out what you want. Become more decisive. Notice when something hurts you, why it does and what needs to be different about you so that it doesn't hurt.

Who do you want to be in life?

lol

Thanks, Mill.

Who do you want to be in life?

Good question...

The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect. If you constantly treat it as though it were the most important thing on earth (which it is), if you become obsessive over it to the point of madness, and if you can cultivate strong emotional feelings towards it, then you are in a position to build up some momentum, which is the key to all spiritual success.

Creating unstoppable momentum is the force which can permanently alter the mind's perspective and strengthen its relationship to truth. It enables you to raise the bottom of the mind, so to speak, so that if and when you do get distracted, you don't have far to fall, and you don't have far to climb back up.

-

Steven Coyle wrote: My problem is a fragile ego - leading to low self-esteem.

Consider yourself lucky - here's how. Since the philosphy being discussed here involves elimination of the ego, having a fragile ego should make this one step easier for you. A low self esteem is worse than no self esteem because no self esteem allows other things such as truth and justice to take a higher position in life. That's the stuff that heros are made of.

David wrote: The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect.

That would do it.

mil wrote:

Shit man. Im crazy too. Everybody is.

Everybody's nuts, but the important question is what flavor are you? I'm pistacio - a little green, but full of flavor.

Scott wrote:

Enlightenment is not remembering truths.

I think you got that one backwards.

A low self esteem is *worse* than no self esteem because no self esteem allows other things such as truth and justice to take a higher position in life. That's the stuff that heros are made of.

Well, shit.

:)

David Quinn wrote:The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect. If you constantly treat it as though it were the most important thing on earth (which it is), if you become obsessive over it to the point of madness, and if you can cultivate strong emotional feelings towards it, then you are in a position to build up some momentum, which is the key to all spiritual success.

You mean the strength of an unconscious, blind, irrational; feminine trait such as emotional feelings is needed to attain a masculine goal? Or do you define ‘emotional feelings’ differently to suit this situation?

Creating unstoppable momentum is the force which can permanently alter the mind's perspective and strengthen its relationship to truth. It enables you to raise the bottom of the mind, so to speak, so that if and when you do get distracted, you don't have far to fall, and you don't have far to climb back up.

-

Strange… Once you know, you know; how can one have doubts reappearing again and again, and hence falling back, if one has already hacked through those doubts using reason?

In a class society the move from lower to upper class is not possible. One must have been born there. If you make wealth you are sociable and your children or children's children can one day become a mix of the real deal. To live in a class society is to die with the class you were born with. To deny class society is to make it stronger.

David wrote:

The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect. If you constantly treat it as though it were the most important thing on earth (which it is), if you become obsessive over it to the point of madness, and if you can cultivate strong emotional feelings towards it, then you are in a position to build up some momentum, which is the key to all spiritual success.

I disagree. If you bring yourself to the point of madness because of your love of truth, you're obviously doing something wrong.

Elizabeth wrote:

Consider yourself lucky - here's how. Since the philosphy being discussed here involves elimination of the ego, having a fragile ego should make this one step easier for you. A low self esteem is worse than no self esteem because no self esteem allows other things such as truth and justice to take a higher position in life. That's the stuff that heros are made of.

Well I say don't consider yourself lucky for being indecisive and wussy. It doesn't follow that having a weak ego is close to having no ego. I think having a strong ego is closer to having no ego. An indecisive and weak person doesn't have courage (the ability to make decisions), like the hero does. Courage is what egolessness is all about.

"Enlightenment is not remembering truths."


I think you got that one backwards.

How should it read: "Remembering truths is not enlightenment?" Same meaning.

Scott,

I disagree. If you bring yourself to the point of madness because of your love of truth, you're obviously doing something wrong.

In my opinion, David does not mean “madness” as in to the point of being irrationally crazy. In this context it means a single-minded one-directional passion towards knowing existence and ones own true nature, which emerges from the dissatisfaction of irrational explanations offered as rational.

However, what one is lead to understand in and of existence or ones own true nature is a different story.

"Enlightenment is not remembering truths."

You mean ‘memory-less-ness’? Or do you mean remembering all other things but the truths? How does one achieve that?

I’m guessing here - empty your mind - right?

Sapius wrote:

David Quinn: The best method is to cultivate a genuine love for truth/cause and effect. If you constantly treat it as though it were the most important thing on earth (which it is), if you become obsessive over it to the point of madness, and if you can cultivate strong emotional feelings towards it, then you are in a position to build up some momentum, which is the key to all spiritual success.

You mean the strength of an unconscious, blind, irrational; feminine trait such as emotional feelings is needed to attain a masculine goal? Or do you define ‘emotional feelings’ differently to suit this situation?

Do you imagine that “unconscious, blind, irrational” emotion could be used to attain this masculine goal?

That is plainly absurd. Emotion used for this purpose is done so consciously, as is the decision to make it your goal in the first place.

David Quinn: Creating unstoppable momentum is the force which can permanently alter the mind's perspective and strengthen its relationship to truth. It enables you to raise the bottom of the mind, so to speak, so that if and when you do get distracted, you don't have far to fall, and you don't have far to climb back up.

Strange… Once you know, you know; how can one have doubts reappearing again and again, and hence falling back, if one has already hacked through those doubts using reason?

There is nothing "strange" about ‘doubting’ - as it is the powerful examiner of thought. Without doubt there can be no philosophical progress towards certainty and Truth. And until you are perfectly enlightened, ‘doubting’ remains an important part of your thinking.

-
Sue

Sapius,

In my opinion, David does not mean “madness” as in to the point of being irrationally crazy. In this context it means a single-minded one-directional passion towards knowing existence and ones own true nature, which emerges from the dissatisfaction of irrational explanations offered as rational.

In my opinion, having such an intense passion for truth is can be very irrational and unreasonable.

You mean ‘memory-less-ness’? Or do you mean remembering all other things but the truths? How does one achieve that?

I’m guessing here - empty your mind - right?

No. No. I don't know. No. I meant that remembering the truth is something unenlightened people do, and enlightened people know the truth and nothing else.

Sue,

That is plainly absurd. Emotion used for this purpose is done so consciously, as is the decision to make it your goal in the first place.

Thanks, Sue, but I simply wanted to clarify the definition of ‘emotional feelings’ in this context.

So, using ‘emotional feelings’ consciously, or lets say that being fully aware that it is necessarily a feminine trait, one can deliberately or knowingly use it for a different purpose. Is that right?

Sap: Strange… Once you know, you know; how can one have doubts reappearing again and again, and hence falling back, if one has already hacked through those doubts using reason?

Sue: There is nothing "strange" about ‘doubting’ - as it is the powerful examiner of thought. Without doubt there can be no philosophical progress towards certainty and Truth. And until you are perfectly enlightened, ‘doubting’ remains an important part of your thinking.

I’m kind of confused here, Sue. May be it is my lack of command over English. With such clarity of mind that you have, how did you gather that I was pointing to ‘doubting’ as being strange?

What I find strange is how can doubts reappear IF they have been cleared, and one FALLS BACK, to climb up again?

David Quinn: Creating unstoppable momentum is the force which can permanently alter the mind's perspective and strengthen its relationship to truth. It enables you to raise the bottom of the mind, so to speak, so that if and when you do get distracted, you don't have far to fall, and you don't have far to climb back up.

I was talking about the falling and climbing back up part.

Scott,

Sapius: In my opinion, David does not mean “madness” as in to the point of being irrationally crazy. In this context it means a single-minded one-directional passion towards knowing existence and ones own true nature, which emerges from the dissatisfaction of irrational explanations offered as rational.

Scott: In my opinion, having such an intense passion for truth is can be very irrational and unreasonable.

Another term for it is "putting everything you have into it." This is a recipe for success, especially in a venture so difficult. That makes it the ultimate in rationality and reason.

I meant that remembering the truth is something unenlightened people do, and enlightened people know the truth and nothing else.

Are you belittling remembering?

Remembering is very important. "Remembering the truth" is a key to reaching an awakened state, the necessary platform from which to ascend further. In short, it is something people who are working toward enlightenment do, as often as possible.

Enlightenment isn't like turning on a light bulb. Sometimes, from your writings, I get the impression that is how you see it.

Scott,

In my opinion, having such an intense passion for truth is can be very irrational and unreasonable.

It would really help if you expanded that.

I meant that remembering the truth is something unenlightened people do, and enlightened people know the truth and nothing else.

Ah! I see. So you were emphasizing on the ‘remembering’ part?

Do you mean to say that an unenlightened person has to keep reminding one self again and again? And do you think that an enlightened person is not aware of any falseness at any time?

Carl,

"In my opinion, having such an intense passion for truth is can be very irrational and unreasonable."

Another term for it is "putting everything you have into it." This is a recipe for success, especially in a venture so difficult. That makes it the ultimate in rationality and reason.

I agree. I'm just pointing out that it can take you off course.

"I meant that remembering the truth is something unenlightened people do, and enlightened people know the truth and nothing else."

Are you belittling remembering?

No. It's good to remember things. I'm saying enlightenment is not about having to remember truths that you've reasoned out. A person who does that is not enlightened.

Remembering is very important. "Remembering the truth" is a key to reaching an awakened state, the necessary platform from which to ascend further. In short, it is something people who are working toward enlightenment do, as often as possible.

You're right...it's someting unenlightened people do.

Enlightenment isn't like turning on a light bulb. Sometimes, from your writings, I get the impression that is how you see it.

How do you know what it's like or not like?

Enlightenment is not easy to describe in simple words...but the best and most concise way it can be put is that it's like the extinguishing of a flame (which is actually what Nibbhana means, or so I've read).

Enlightenment is where delusion is completely erradicated. All that is known to the enlightened is the way things ultimately are - reality.

So is it like turning on a light bulb...not really. Because that would mean it's like filling your brain with knowledge. It's more like the extinguishing of a flame, because delusions are gone. All that's known is the simple truth of everything...all illusory things are seen through, and the core of reality is all that's known.

Yeah, pretty hard to put in simple terms.

Sapius,

"In my opinion, having such an intense passion for truth is can be very irrational and unreasonable."

It would really help if you expanded that.

Okay. It's obvious that someone who cares intensely for the truth doesn't know it. Real wisdom makes a person calm, and unattached to everything. Seeking makes a person intense and passionate and ready to do anything for that which is sought.

You will be irrational and unreasonable until you are enlightened.

Ah! I see. So you were emphasizing on the ‘remembering’ part?

Do you mean to say that an unenlightened person has to keep reminding one self again and again? And do you think that an enlightened person is not aware of any falseness at any time?

I mean to say that an unenlightened person will keep reminding themselves again and again of truths. That may or may not lead to enlightenment. I personally think it's close to impossible for someone to enlighten themselves. It would take the most clever genius. So an unenlightened person, in my opinion, doesn't have to do anything...nothing they do will get them anywhere.

Maybe realizing this, and why this is, is a step in the right direction...but it's still far off from the target.

Now does an enlightened person have any awareness of falseness at any time? Here is my answer: they see through every illusion.