GENIUS FORUMS

Hello everyone. This is the first time I post something on this forum (I think, I joined a year ago and then just forgot about it).

There are many recent studies which show the interconnection between emotions, memory and decision making. Unlike commonly believed before, emotions are necessary to behave rationally, and it makes recalling memories done more rapidly, and it makes us do rational decisions every day. Some decisions we've seen, are better when not thought of in much detail, others not (better to analyse in more detail rationally).
For instance there was this guy named Elliot who had a brain tumor removed. After the removal, he often spent hours writing down pro and cons on such small issues as to what radio station to listen to, or what to have for lunch. His intellect, it showed, was perfectly intact, but they found he had lost all emotions. He lost his job as a boss of a company, and also his wife.
Was Elliot superior to most people today, or do we need our emotions to behave rationally in some sense?
I'll leave it at that, though I have more questions, but I can probably ask them later in this discussion.

The eighties died when prince cried through and through.

As far as I can tell, men uncover truths and preach truths with passion. Just look at Kierkegaard and Nietzsche. Their lives seemed overflowing with emotion, and from that passion they attain clarity. Dry stuffy academics don't seem very emotional, and they also don't often seem to have anything very interesting to say either.

A man is clear because he loves being clear. His love is necessary for clarity. Emotions are important, but sometimes they can take over completely and swamp rational thought, so there are perils.

Hi there, Censeo. You can't really compare someone who suddenly loses their capacity for emotion through brain-injury with the process of gradually withering away the emotions via increasing levels of wisdom and understanding. In the latter case, the emotional input in the memory process is gradually replaced by momentum and purpose.

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David Quinn wrote:You can't really compare someone who suddenly loses their capacity for emotion through brain-injury with the process of gradually withering away the emotions via increasing levels of wisdom and understanding. In the latter case, the emotional input in the memory process is gradually replaced by momentum and purpose.

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Someone who have gradually increased their wisdom and understanding would surely have same difficulties making ordinary decisions I believe. I view purpose as a bi-product of emotions to begin with. Even the striving for wisdom do require some love for understanding, or it would not motivate you.

just a half-opened campbell's can

Censeo wrote:There are many recent studies which show the interconnection between emotions, memory and decision making. Unlike commonly believed before, emotions are necessary to behave rationally, and it makes recalling memories done more rapidly, and it makes us do rational decisions every day. Some decisions we've seen, are better when not thought of in much detail, others not (better to analyse in more detail rationally).

Here's an idea:
What if your need to rationalize/analyze a situation was purely based off of an emotional, or chemical (bodily), connection/instinct (this can easily be inferred)?
All of our everyday activities gain motivation from an emotional drive (e.g. I am seeking praise by writing this response), whether you'd like to admit it or not (e.g. I dislike the idea of sending un-intelligent children to school, since they lack the drive (AND) intelligence to reach higher levels of education; all because I like the idea of being superior over these un-intelligent brats).

Examples:
I attack religion because I believe I'm right and religion is wrong, and I want people to know that (praise/attention).
I eat food because my body needs nutrients (drive for energy to function/genetic instinct).
I hit on that hot chick standing over there, because I want to have sex with her (emotional/chemical drive; lust, and the mating process).

This can also explain why psychotic (whirled emotions/thought process) people(s) have their own drives for certain actions (rape, murder, etc.)

Example:
I'm going to kill that girl over there, in order to attract attention to myself. Or to fill my need of satisfaction from violence (from the psychotic mind, violence can be though of as entertainment).

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Censeo wrote:Someone who have gradually increased their wisdom and understanding would surely have same difficulties making ordinary decisions I believe. I view purpose as a bi-product of emotions to begin with. Even the striving for wisdom do require some love for understanding, or it would not motivate you.

Many people on this forum have expanded their wisdom/or knowledge of nature, the human nature, and life and the universe itself. From what I've taken in (I've been studying this forum and the people for a week or so, before I joined), the expanded wisdom of a person only increases their desire to analyze a situation (the drive for more knowledge/superiority/advantage over others) more-so than is necessary.

Censeo wrote:

David Quinn wrote:You can't really compare someone who suddenly loses their capacity for emotion through brain-injury with the process of gradually withering away the emotions via increasing levels of wisdom and understanding. In the latter case, the emotional input in the memory process is gradually replaced by momentum and purpose.

Someone who have gradually increased their wisdom and understanding would surely have same difficulties making ordinary decisions I believe.

Do you believe that increasing wisdom and understanding leads to increasing stupidity .....?

Censeo wrote: I view purpose as a bi-product of emotions to begin with. Even the striving for wisdom do require some love for understanding, or it would not motivate you.

This is certainly true in the beginning stages. A powerful emotional dive is needed to set the ball rolling and enable one to punch through the very basis of emotion, which is ignorance.

David_Vogan wrote:Many people on this forum have expanded their wisdom/or knowledge of nature, the human nature, and life and the universe itself. From what I've taken in (I've been studying this forum and the people for a week or so, before I joined), the expanded wisdom of a person only increases their desire to analyze a situation (the drive for more knowledge/superiority/advantage over others) more-so than is necessary.

One wonders if this conclusion is a result of too much analysis or not enough .....

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David Quinn wrote:

David_Vogan wrote:Many people on this forum have expanded their wisdom/or knowledge of nature, the human nature, and life and the universe itself. From what I've taken in (I've been studying this forum and the people for a week or so, before I joined), the expanded wisdom of a person only increases their desire to analyze a situation (the drive for more knowledge/superiority/advantage over others) more-so than is necessary.

One wonders if this conclusion is a result of too much analysis or not enough .....

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Where would the conclusion be then, if no one analyzed the situation at all?

lifting up a gooey pizza slice

David_Vogan wrote:All of our everyday activities gain motivation from an emotional drive....

.....whether you'd like to admit it or not

How'd you come to that conclusion? Introspection? Reading the results of scientific studies?

David Quinn wrote:

Censeo wrote: Someone who have gradually increased their wisdom and understanding would surely have same difficulties making ordinary decisions I believe.

Do you believe that increasing wisdom and understanding leads to increasing stupidity .....?
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After I posted what I wrote, I noticed that I missed the essential part. I believe they would surely have the same difficulties if they had the same effect from a tumour.

Censeo wrote: There are many recent studies which show the interconnection between emotions, memory and decision making. Unlike commonly believed before, emotions are necessary to behave rationally, and it makes recalling memories done more rapidly, and it makes us do rational decisions every day.

Hi Censeo (isn't that an addictive coffee maker?)

Could you in any future posts perhaps specify the "many recent studies" when used as argument to make a point? I'd love to discuss the specific research and hypotheses of neuro-scientist Damasio, who worked with the Elliot case, but you'll have to be more precise.

In general I'd like to suggest that you research how Damasio defines emotion, before linking it to decision making. The "somatic markers" he defined could very well be involved in many mental processes, the whole process of will and decision making. But this does not in any way show how the experiencing of emotion as behavioral factor is somehow needed as causal link toward a rational decision. Actually there's nothing as far as I know in Damasio's work and related research which addresses the underlying logic which leads to this assumption.

Related to this topic is this recent research: Dress to Impress: Wearing fashionable brands increases self-esteem and cognitive performance in women (PDF). Now one could link the positive emotion to increased mental capacity but one can also argue that the fashionable branding removed the insecurities clouding the needed focus. So is "high self-esteem" an emotion here or not?

I think about Autistic people who have missing emotions, and how artistic they are, yet can't appreciate it, how musically talented they can be, yet play the piano almost identically each time. maths, memory all improved. Often when I am going to bed I try to see a clear picture in the blackness of my closed eyes, and I can't do it. You can do it with magic mushrooms, so the brain has the ability to present you with clear images, and that would make you a gifted artist, but you just can't switch off your other mind which is analysing everything... "You are about to see a picture... exciting!", but I didn't because of that message which interrupted it. The excitement of achievement prohibits some of that achievement. You are about to play snooker in the world championships!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The excitement is too much for you to play your best game.

Emotions prohibit you, yet the snooker hall would be empty when you won the World Championships, and nobody would care about your art, and people would only listen to your music to copy it without them. Emotions therefore seem to belong to the audience. It is the audience who benefit more than yourself. We have emotions also as our own audience. I want to create a picture in my mind, I am my own audience. Or I can create a picture in my mind, but it doesn't really matter if I can or not.

It's not that emotions distort clear thinking, it's the fact that any thinking that is not 100% clear (logical) will give rise to emotion.

Emotions are the most extreme expression of anthropomorphism. They lack any and all relevance to the universe itself, which is devoid of emotion (and thought)

If you have an emotional reaction to a sunset for example, it's just chemicals and neural wiring. The human body has evolved as an acute antennae for all aspects of physical existence, you could even call it ridiculously over-engineered for adaptation, because it hit the "jackpot" of DNA if you like, even though existence possesses no such meaning. This is why it's logical to conclude that the human experience is purely arbitrary in nature, therefore ultimately devoid any inherent worth.

To the average schmuck, life without emotions would be devoid of any and all purpose to life, it's just the bouncing back and forth between individual people, the entertainment of the illusion that makes it worthwhile. Not that they actually know it's an illusion, it's just life unfolding, with next to zero appreciation of the mechanics behind it. Who wants to think about billions of years of evolution, when they can just think about what they are gonna have for dinner..?

Riding on the backs of breeders.