Trevor, I haven't really kept abreast of the contents in this thread, but I will say I have had some excellent success with homeopathic treatments---particularly with my son, when he was five and suffered full-blown debilitating migraines.
Study up on the area, ask questions, and then choose a practitioner you consider to be competent on that basis.
I don’t have much faith in homeopathic remedies generally. Natural plants can have quite powerful drugs in them anyway, so it’s still using drugs to treat what may be more of a psychological rather than a physical condition. Are schizophrenia/bi-polar disorder physical or psychological conditions and are they necessarily connected? If they are largely psychological, then what is the value of drugs? Is just the one lot of drugs meant to cure a whole range of conditions? You have to really judge the effectiveness of things by how you feel afterwards. Are the drugs just basically sedatives and meant to calm you down?
I’m wondering whether intensive one-on-one therapy might be more valuable, but I guess it’s what you can afford, what’s offered and basically, what makes you feel better. Depression on the other hand, can affect everyone and sometimes you just have to force yourself out there in the world.
The alternative medicine field is filled with just as much (or arguably more) cynical money-grubbing activity as mainstream medicine is. For the reasons given above, I can't see how homeopathy could be anything but a blatant example thereof.
I know that the most diluted homeopathics contain little or no original substance, but I don't think that is true of most of what people buy.
I suppose that its true everyone is trying to make a living, but to equate a seller of homeopathics or herbs with Big Pharma and their lobbyists is quitea stretch. Problem is, there's only money and publicity for those things which are patentable and able to make a serious buck. Seen it too many times - too many viable or interesting alternatives get suppressed or ridiculed.
Oscilloccinum works, and it can't be a placebo because the shit the doctor gives you or you buy in the store doesn't work.
Furthermore, it's main ingredient comes from - duck liver - and guess who is the most impervious to flu? Wild ducks.
Now, daybrown,
since when has the recipe for soma been settled upon? legal? you must be referring to..ah my good friend ama. shh...
So we have Leyla and Iolaus on one hand, and Unidian and Bilby on the other.
I have a second appointment to see the homeopath on Friday, but I have stopped taking his remedies. Is there any convincing reason I should go on Friday? I will be paying for this appointment, so any argument in favour of seeing him needs to justify the cost.
well, why did you stop? were they ineffective? it sounds like he has an interesting perspective. in general, i advise everyone to be highly suspicious of establishment medicine (what do I know, i'm only a nurse) and to do their homework and learn what they can. even if you don't stay with the homeopath, you may find alternative practitioners of different sorts that are very good and can help you. sad to say, insurance won't cover it, yet in other countries, it does.
i find the whole problem of mental health especially interesting and take note of what daybrown said about the modern diet having little in the way of variety and minerals. do you get enough sunshine? i guess if you're out with your dog two hours a day you should.
Iolaus,
I stopped because Unidian sounded like he had experience with homeopaths, and had nothing to say that would recommend them to anyone. I take arguments seriously.
Also, the Wiki seems to have nothing pleasant to say. There are only two reasons that the Wiki would be written as it is: either everyone is against homeopaths, or there is nothing to homeopathy. I lean away from conspiracy theories when possible.
Trevor, if you want to pursue enlightenment you must learn to think for yourself. There's no other way! Jesus said, there are many standing outside the bridal chamber, but only those will enter who come alone.
The homeopathics can't hurt you so you may have acted prematurely.
Wiki and Unidian are entirely conventional in their opinions. Except that Unidian is spiritually advanced. Go figure. But I do want to know how he ended up in an anger management class!
either everyone is against homeopaths, or there is nothing to homeopathy. I lean away from conspiracy theories when possible.
Oh, and I'm a born again concpiracy theorist, but in this case it is just herd behavior. Yes, big Pharma is in an open conspiracy to prevent any real competition and probably and real healing, but that's just open greed.
Wasn't it you, trevor, who wrote that great post on the Kevin Does America thread? About how little truth we get, how other opinions are suppresssed and so on?
Yes, it was! I went back and checked. Great post. Friday, sept 21 at 1-something am. What about your own essay did you not understand? That it applies to more than simple politics? That the same forces that can control the media and politics might also have other items on their agenda? That it is a huge, many-tentacled octopus? that the corporates who have the money to buy the politicians buy them for certain purposes, such as to maintain their monopolies?
<since when has the recipe for soma been settled upon? legal? you must be referring to..ah my good friend ama. shh..>
Since Wasson tracked down Ugarit Shamen who were still using it. They were *never* Christianized.
Lotsa recipes, but the simple works: slather a shroom with butter. Eat it.
This is the time of year to watch for A. Muscaria in the forest. But if you cant find them, or find the time to look, you can buy them online. They are sold from stock found in OR, WA, BC, and Finland, Baltic States, and I've even seen Portugal.
They are *legal*. The thing is, that you *must* avoid the use of alcohol at least 24 hours before ritual. The fatty acids in butter, lard, reindeer tallow (what Ugarit shamen use), yogurt, ghee, or whatever, neutralize the fatty alkaloids in the shroom that are notorious for gastric upset. Alcohol washes the protective coating off the intestinal walls, and you'll get so sick you'll think you will die. But if you look up the National poison website, you find out it never actually killed anyone.
ONLY use fully air dried shrooms. There's a chemical process in the drying, and when people mistake them for another shroom, they dont wait for them to be dried. ONLY use them on the new or full moons. Your liver needs time to process the toxins. Of course, if you have liver problems dont try them.
They cannot be grown commercially. And gathered wild, vary in potency. I've had some I picked last year are good in stew. [thats a period]. If you find them wild, slice them off at ground level with a razor knive and look at the cut surface. If it oozes a milky white that then, over the course of a minute or two, its not A. Muscaria, but A. Rubescens. The good news is that Rubescens stimulates the mucous membranes and is therefore terrific to cook with, the salivary glands just go nuts, but then so do- vaginal tissues.
I'll havta try serving clit with Rubescens sometime.
But if A. Muscaria, slit down thru the center of the cap and stalk *immediately*. You want them to dry ASAP, like on the dashboard in the sun to keep the maggots from hatching and eating them. Hence "fly agaric" is the other name.
Try 1gm of dried shroom for every 25lb of body weight. You can prolly get an oz for 30$ online. That should keep you going at least 8 hours, but feel free to try more after an hour. It comes on slower than recreational drugs. It works well with food, and you wont have a jittery stomach. I've baked the sacred Greek bread "Pelanos" and served it with melted butter during ritual. Everybody loves it.
Useful tips. So you recommend taking them with butter? Yeah, I'm aware the Siberian shamen never stopped, but I still am not convinced that is the soma written about in the vedas. It might be. Another theory is that it was a combo of substances. I think that might be a most interesting idea. I saw an essay about it, with 5 ingredients. One was amanita, to take one beyond death (the body), one was the opium poppy, to relax the person so they don't freak out, one was mary j, to combat nausea, and perhaps add some depth, another was psilosyb for visionary effects. I can't remember the fifth.
I have found A muscaria, and dried them, but wanted to be more sure. It seems very distinctive in appearance. I hesitate to buy online because who knows the reliability of the gatherers from another country? And after they are dried, they're a little harder to identify.
A gram for each 25 lbs would be only about 6 grams for me? What kind of effect would that give? I have partaken once, and took about 20 grams. Next time will be 25. Perhaps the potency is different, but I believe that is what James Arthur, author of Mushrooms and Mankind, which you'd probably enjoy, recommended.
Do you know the shamans drank their first urine after ingestion and that you get a full dose that way, in fact a better one with toxins removed?
I think Wasson mentions how the Vedas were composed over a long period of time. Different people would have tried different things, especially if the supply of A. Muscaria ran out. So, nobody can say what every sample of "soma" was made of.
But he cites a veda in which the acolyte drinks the piss of the master. Well, with A. Muscaria, that would actually work. the Muscaine passes right thru the kidneys, and a really powerful brew could be made of it. The shrooms could also be fed to a horse, as also mentioned, with a similar procedure, which I think would involve neutralizing the uric acids.
He also suggests that there was a North/South Muscaria Road in addition to the Silk Road, that would have crossed someplace east of the Caspian. EW Barber, "The Mummies of Urumchi" shows us two temples which she did not know, were found in the Southern Kara Kum, consistent with Wasson's idea. Both temples had intact bowls with cannibis, ephedra, and opium. But no Soma. Still, the idea of the altered state of consciousness as a sacred ritual is obvious.
But, whatever, Ugarit shamen still use it, and my own experience is that butter works fine. I have not felt any gastric distress with Muscaria at all, but do know that cannibis dramatically intensifies the experience for a while. But being a wild product, like a box a chocolate, no tellin what you may get. I found what added up to 3/4 lb of Muscaria 11 months ago in my neck of Ozarks woods, and you know I am watching now. But anyway, I ate an oz, but had no effect whatever. But other years, other samples, a mere 7gm would have your brains leaking out of your ears.
<From Homeopathic to Psychotropic, LOL.>
By their fruits yea shall know them. The boonies of Finland were never Christianized, and still have wooden grave markers, with native practioners still at it.
If you can see the bullshit in scripture without psychotropic meds, more power to you. But lotsa folks are just too gullible, especially poorly educated hicks. Among the many effects of Soma is a direct experience of the divine, and one of the reason the church has always been against the potions, is that the initiates realize the divine presence is not Jesus.
As in so many other cosmological experiences, opinion varies; but one thing they all seem to take away from the ritual is that you either get it or you do not, and threatening people with violence does not make them get it. The Fins, unlike the Christian nations, did not set out to build a colonial empire with the excuse of saving the souls of those they intend to enslave.
They never had book burnings, much less witch burnings. No inquistions, no religious wars. Yet, when invaded by the Soviets, perfectly able to successfully defend their own interests.
The use of A. Muscaria is attested back 7000 years in SE Europe by the altarware and figures of the toadstools. The digs in the tels on the floodplains of the rivers that empty into the west end of the Black sea show they flourished from 8000-4000 BCE to judge by the dendochronology.
Gimbutas went to Finland and other obscure parts of Europe collecting folks tales, iconography, and then collating it just as is done with etymology to extract the common roots of what is now called "Proto-Indo-European", aka PIE. Mythologist Joseph Campbell wrote the forward to her outline of their cosmology, "The Language of the Goddess", which he closes with:
"The message here is of an actual age of peace and harmony with the creative energies of nature, which for a spell of some 4000 prehistoric years anteceded the 5000 of what James Joyce has termed the 'nightmare' (of contending tribal and national interests) from which it is certainly time for this planet to wake." [his parens]
The "Golden Age of Peace" reported by Plato really did exist. The tels have left us no sign of warfare down thru 4000 years of occupation. 5000 years ago, it looks like Anthrax came in, and the whole system dispersed. Part of it appears as the Cycladic and Minoan, but the larger part moved onto the Steppes to become the Amazons, who in turn founded most of the independent city states that became the Silk Road. And again, these cities, since they were literate, make no mention of warfare among them, but do some reporting on the problems they had with bandits, barbarians, and the Persian or Chinese empires.
But it is easy to understand how they could live in peace when you consider the problem a demagogue would have trying to rile up a mob or an army by claiming that *he* speaks in "HER* name. And to this day, the experience people with Soma have is the divine presence is still the Great Earth Mother.
Increasingly, as you mite imagine, this has appeal to young women, and as they perform rituals with Soma, they naturally come to the same occasion. The good news Carl, if you are young enuf, is that with the Goddess, sex is sacred and not profane. Were I not already an old man, I would have taken part in the sacred safe sex orgy I witnessed last year. Wiccan men will never rule, but they will get laid.
daybrown wrote:<From Homeopathic to Psychotropic, LOL.>
If you can see the bullshit in scripture without psychotropic meds, more power to you.
Indeed. I'm just laughing at how a thread can begin with one subject, and then end up on another entirely.
The good news Carl, if you are young enuf, is that with the Goddess, sex is sacred and not profane. Were I not already an old man, I would have taken part in the sacred safe sex orgy
Wiccan safe sex orgy, that's with those goat bladder condoms, right?
I witnessed last year.
Guess that makes you merely a Wiccan buff, rather than a Wiccan in the buff. Tough breaks.
Wiccan men will never rule, but they will get laid.
The standard LSD dose is 200 mc. as in 1/5000Th of a gram. Looks like a homeopathic level. Other compounds at that density trigger allergic reactions. There are those who claim homeopathic levels of exposure in vaccines to thermisol or mercury cause autism. I really dunno; there are such powerful economic interests involved, you dont know who to trust.
And for sure, lotsa homeopaths are quacks. BOTOH, lab reports are that homeopathic levels of iron, copper, zinc, manganese, etc are needed for maximal mental development. And archeology shows us that hominids evolved getting them from the wild foods in the diet, but little of that is in the sugar cereals, junkfood and soda most people have been raised with. And we see how many are nuts.
Besides the psychotropics, asthma, autism, and all the rest, there's an epidemic of frigidity. Far more frigid bitches around now than when I was young. I think young men have figured this out, aware that even if they do "buy the cow" as Dr. Laura puts it, they wont get the "milk" for long. Soon as the honeymoon endorphins are worn off, its over. Again, homeopathic levels of compounds in the body.
Part of what's going on with wicca, New Age, Neo-pagans, or whatever, is that along with the effort to recover ancient spirituality is the recovery of the idea that the world is sacred not profane, and that organic food is a big part of that sacredness. Foraging not only provides exercise they need, it can have the aforementioned trace minerals, and this, along with many pyschotropic herbs can turn a neurotic Christian bitch into a woman who learned to control her weight as well as her own pyche.
Group think enters into this because only those on the fringe of psychosis would even consider studying the "Craft". But as the Christian fundies became even more nuts, and archeology exposed more of the lies behind the Christian narrative, smarter women, more able to think for themselves have seen the synergy between the wiccan and environmental consciousness. Last year, I was struck by the apparently normal women I met that afternoon discussing green politics, could then put their bodies on the line that nite in a ritual orgy. Since you ask, the condoms looked like the normal reservoir end variety.
I was not there as a reporter, but a guest of the management to consult on a business plan for their operations. They very clearly had a way to motivate men, and what was important to them, was what to do with that power. They had 200 acres of prime corn belt land, and could have been growing 20,000$/year of corn in rotation on it- if they had the men who knew how to run the machinery. Any they find who can do that will definately get laid, and never hear "Not tonite dear, I have a headache."
Among the many effects of Soma is a direct experience of the divine, and one of the reason the church has always been against the potions, is that the initiates realize the divine presence is not Jesus.
Oh, I dunno, there was those interesting gnostics, who believed in the Christos, but yeah, they did not believe in a literal incarnation.
Anyway, they would realize a helluva lot more than just that about the church. but then, i think even j will do that.
Here's the real thing that would bother the church. they wanted to be in control of the people by dispensing the sacraments, which were needed for salvation. they wanted to teach that you have to take the communion offered by the church in order to be spiritually connected. The divine gas station. The real manna from heaven, is the little mushroom nub. The real power of spiritual transformation comes from within. Muscaria would make the people laugh at the silly chalice, which is symbolic and nothing more. It has no real power. It would make them laugh at the idea that they needed the priest to commune with God.
I have not defined the presence I felt. But it was a profoundly healing experience.
Why do you think there's more frigidity?? That surprises me. I rather sometimes think that the male race has lost its lust, but it may be cultural, or it may be that I can't relate to them as a young woman does and so I don't see it.
Well, the trip is fun Iolaus. Specially this time of year with fresh buds coming in. As the oldest hippy in my neck of woods, people come by with stuff for me to sample, and its been a pretty good year. There's new hybrid out, a midget weed that dont stick up, so the growers have to use a GPS to find it. Choppers are now just useless, and they dont even fly over any more. Maybe they are all in Iraq. I dunno.
The clearcuts are just perfect habitat for all kinds of fast growing weeds. There's also been a kind of alliance between the local law enforcement and the growers: neither want the meth heads in the area. When Randy got busted with 1/4 pound on a run to Little Rock, I was worried. But as it turned out, the arresting officer was new, and had to look for a new job in another state. Randy runs the deer hunting club for local law enforcement. We all just trying to get along.
And ya, I got a copy of the Nag Hammadi by my left elbow; that was a trip too, and you can see why the bastards in the power elite tried to eradicate it. There's quite a diff between believing in Jesus and becoming Jesus, and they just didnt get it.
Sexuality changes biochemistry, and... biochemistry changes sexuality. For one thing, lotsa women are in the gene pool not because they had a sex drive, but because they were compelled to fuck. For another, when you dose veggies with petrochemicals, they develop phytoestrogens in their tissues. The FDA knew about this, but didnt figure it was a problem. Phytoestrogens have been used for decades without problems. Its whats in the birth control pill. Course, they didnt think about that that would do to little boy's minds... like create a generation of faggots. It that's what you wanted, what else would you try?
At least its a kind of balance. But frigid or not women evolved in houses that had men living in them, and thus were exposed to male pheremones in the air even when they didnt have sex. This has something to do with the desire by women, even the frigid and the fag hags, to want to live with men. The obvious solution is to return to communal housing with the common space people were usually in having both sexes pumping pheremones. Course, that interferes with the romantic illusions of monogamy.
A careful look at anthro reports supports the idea that hominids evolved in small groups, and that while the pair bond has always existed, it was not always heterosexual, nor was it always monogamous. There are innumerable refs to 'fertility rites' which helped to maximize genetic diversity in small gene pools. That instinct is still with us.
Christianity showed up in the same era as new virulent STDs that were killing women, or at least making them infertile, so monogamy looked like a good idea. But now that we have the diagnostic tools and safe sex methods, that's a better idea, and we'd quit seeing faithful wives become HIV pos. So- Christianity, which was never a really adequate solution, has got to go.
There's this about the undefined presence you mention. Nobody goes to war over it.
Every topic is not an opportunity to show your knowledge. Think first.
Before you admonish others to think, be sure you've done so yourself. Although my posts may have denied Trevor a placebo effect, isn't it possible that they also might have prevented him from settling for a less effective solution? While the placebo effect can be useful in some cases, it should be remembered that in order to be approved, valid medical treatments must show that they are significant more effective than placebo. On the scale of "good and better," the placebo effect is good, but actual treatment is better.
I also "show my knowledge" by discouraging people from chopping themselves up with razor blades to combat depression. While such "cutting" may in fact be temporarily effective in relieving emotional anguish, it is a poor solution, and a responsible person should be willing to oppose it (and ideally suggest a better one).
Unidian wrote:Before you admonish others to think, be sure you've done so yourself.
Well, that's exactly why I made the point. I had considered writing a similar post to your original but then I thought better of it.
Although my posts may have denied Trevor a placebo effect, isn't it possible that they also might have prevented him from settling for a less effective solution?
Of course you're right. However, if you were more familiar with the goings on here, you'd know Trev's pretty much exhausted or rejected the supposed more effective solutions. That much should really be obvious when someone so intelligent is considering such solutions.
While the placebo effect can be useful in some cases, it should be remembered that in order to be approved, valid medical treatments must show that they are significant more effective than placebo. On the scale of "good and better," the placebo effect is good, but actual treatment is better.
No doubt. Incidentally, Homeopathy is freely available on the NHS here. I'm not sure whether that means that its effects have been proven beyond that of placebo (highly doubtful) but it certainly shows it's been approved as a valid medical treatment.
I also "show my knowledge" by discouraging people from chopping themselves up with razor blades to combat depression. While such "cutting" may in fact be temporarily effective in relieving emotional anguish, it is a poor solution, and a responsible person should be willing to oppose it (and ideally suggest a better one).
Bit of a straw man there Nat. But I take your point and hope you take mine.
