The Woman's World

Talking Ass · Post by **Talking Ass** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:03 am

PS: QRS view of 'woman' (in a nutshell).

jupiviv · Post by **jupiviv** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:25 am

Kunga wrote:Any philosophy that invalidates woman as inferior is detrimental to harmony and peace in the UNIVERSE.

Not at all. It's the same as saying that a rock is unconscious. "Superior" and "inferior" are really ways of saying "this thing is closer to my ideal" and "this thing is far away from my ideal." Moreover, since these labels are already part of the universe, they can neither detriment nor supplement it in any way.

It seems to me that Ego has a very masculine connotation if the feminine is void of any substantial characteristics worthy of Enlightenment.
In that respect...it is only logical that the feminine mind is the source of Enlightenment...as The Void is Emptiness....

The Void is called emptiness because it has no other reality other than the things within itself. The feminine mind is devoid of *consciousness*, but it is still something, just like a rock is devoid of consciousness, but is still something. And consciousness is the source of enlightenment.

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:38 am

jupiviv wrote:The Void is called emptiness because it has no other reality other than the things within itself. The feminine mind is devoid of *consciousness*, but it is still something, just like a rock is devoid of consciousness, but is still something. And consciousness is the source of enlightenment.

The feminine (Emptiness) is synonymous with Ultimate Consciousness ...as there cannot be anything without nothing , that "nothing" being the space which contains everything. So the unconscious gives birth to consciousness.

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:42 am

Kunga wrote:The feminine (Emptiness) is synonymous with Ultimate Consciousness

Not being conscious is not the same as wisdom, which is consciousness of the emptiness of inherent existence of things.

The feminine is definitely not synonymous with ultimate consciousness, because while the mindless hold to nothing (since it is not capable of seeing anything), and are therefore pushed around by everything, the mindful holds to nothing because it can see the true nature of things, and so can remain still.

...as there cannot be anything without nothing , that "nothing" being the space which contains everything. So the unconscious gives birth to consciousness.

Ultimate consciousness is like space, in that it contains everything. But it sees the distinction between unconsciousness and consciousness as a convenient concept only, and not inherently real.

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Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:27 pm

Kelly Jones wrote:Not being conscious is not the same as wisdom,

Is your heart beating consciously or unconsciously ? The unconscious is a form of energy that does not depend on knowledge to function...it is the source of wisdom. Wisdom can only be gained through the unconscious functioning of the brain that transmits information gathered unconsciously for you to realize anything consciously. Wisdom is the result of the unconscious working harmoniously with the conscious mind. True wisdom comes from integrating unconscious and conscious .
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Yab-yum is generally understood to represent the primordial (or mystical) union of wisdom and compassion . In Buddhism the masculine form is active, representing the compassion and skillful means (upaya) that have to be developed in order to reach enlightenment. The feminine form is passive and represents wisdom (prajna), which is also necessary to enlightenment. United, the figures symbolize the union necessary to overcome the veils of Maya, the false duality of object and subject. (from Wikipedia)

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In Hinduism the yab-yum has a slightly different meaning. There, the embraced posture represents the divine strength of creation. The Hindu concept is the one of a passive masculine deity embracing his spouse called shakti, which represents his activity or power. (from Wikipedia)

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Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart… Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. – Carl Jung

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:39 pm

Many people do not realize the power of their unconscious minds. Not surprising really since no one really teaches us how to use it! We get taught how to use our conscious minds through logical, linear teaching that we get in school and other ‘learned’ institutions – but there are no schools for the unconscious.

I am defining the unconscious mind as the part of us that we are not aware of at this very moment. For example, you are probably aware of reading the words on this page – that’s a pretty safe bet! You may be aware of the chair that you are sitting on, or wherever your body is as you read this. You may be not however, be aware of your breathing, your heart rate or your digestion. Now as I mention those things you may become aware of them – or not – depending on how your conscious mind is focussed. Most of us are not aware of our digestion for example unless we have in-digestion, in which case our unconscious makes us very aware of that!

Your unconscious is responsible for all the things you do automatically – like driving your car, dressing, brushing your teeth etc. Originally you learned to do these things consciously – and if you remember, it was hard work when you were learning it for the first time – you were what we call ‘consciously incompetent’ at the task. Eventually, when you learned to drive your car for example, you became over time – unconsciously competent at it. You just don’t have to think about it any more. It’s automatic!

The unconscious mind also:
- Runs the body – breathing, digestion, movement, B.P. etc.
- Is self-preserving – hard wired to maintain instincts – our survival mode operates unconsciously
- Generates energy – this becomes a problem when the energy can’t go anywhere and be dissipated. Energy is generated because of the ‘stress’ of survival. In the past (for example when we were hunter/gatherers) we required an energetic response that we now call ‘fight or flight’. We had to run away from our enemy or fight; or run to catch our dinner!
- Includes the emotional brain -- anger, love, fear, sadness etc.
- Perceives in whole or gestalts -- uses perceptions -- images, sounds, tastes, smells, and sensation as its means of communication.
- Stores and organizes all memories and experience.
- Automatic in the sense that keeps doing the same thing, unless you tell it to do something different; needs repetition in order to learn.
- Generalizes its response to other similar situations

http://www.wellsphere.com/stress-relief ... ind/447436

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:49 pm

Inside your mind, behind the defences of the rationale brain and critical thinking, there is something quite spectacular living inside your brain. It has no form, it has no tangible structure to speak of, but it is the most powerful element within the human body. Without this, your mind has no function, your body has no personality and your soul would not be present. It is the alpha and the omega of everything that is you and it has been with you since you were a child. It has raised you, taught you and it has grown with you and everything that you are is because of this.

http://www.aboutmindpower.com/

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:51 pm

Kunga wrote:
Kelly Jones wrote:Not being conscious is not the same as wisdom,
Is your heart beating consciously or unconsciously ? The unconscious is a form of energy that does not depend on knowledge to function...it is the source of wisdom. Wisdom can only be gained through the unconscious functioning of the brain that transmits information gathered unconsciously for you to realize anything consciously. Wisdom is the result of the unconscious working harmoniously with the conscious mind. True wisdom comes from integrating unconscious and conscious .

One cannot know all the causes for wisdom, but this is not the same as saying that wisdom must be caused by lack of knowledge. If that were true, the majority of humans would be enlightened, and so would last night's dinner. It's meaningless drivel, Kunga.

Yab-yum is generally understood to represent the primordial (or mystical) union of wisdom and compassion . In Buddhism the masculine form is active, representing the compassion and skillful means (upaya) that have to be developed in order to reach enlightenment. The feminine form is passive and represents wisdom (prajna), which is also necessary to enlightenment. United, the figures symbolize the union necessary to overcome the veils of Maya, the false duality of object and subject. (from Wikipedia)

The active, "masculine" part of Dharma is form, while the passive, "feminine" part is the invisible source (formlessness). This is poetry only. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the biological sexes, and nor does it have anything to do with unconsciousness.

In Hinduism the yab-yum has a slightly different meaning. There, the embraced posture represents the divine strength of creation. The Hindu concept is the one of a passive masculine deity embracing his spouse called shakti, which represents his activity or power. (from Wikipedia)

This is poetry. It's not promoting fucking, or embracing unconsciousness, or balancing emotion with reason. It's talking about the very nature of Reality itself, an idea which is clearly way over your head.

Your vision will become clear only when you look into your heart… Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakens. – Carl Jung

Precisely: look to the core and not the forms.

The emotional, animal heart is not the inside, but the desire for the outside.

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jupiviv · Post by **jupiviv** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:52 pm

Kunga wrote:
jupiviv wrote:The Void is called emptiness because it has no other reality other than the things within itself. The feminine mind is devoid of *consciousness*, but it is still something, just like a rock is devoid of consciousness, but is still something. And consciousness is the source of enlightenment.
The feminine (Emptiness) is synonymous with Ultimate Consciousness ...as there cannot be anything without nothing , that "nothing" being the space which contains everything. So the unconscious gives birth to consciousness.

Just because something is unconscious doesn't mean that it's "Emptiness" or anything like that. Women(i.e, feminine minded people) are like rocks, or cows. When women are said to be "nothing", it's meant that they are an illusion - a projection of man's love of himself. The beauty that men see in them doesn't really exist in them. In reality, women are more like rocks.

I don't know what you mean by "Ultimate Consciousness", since consciousness as I define it is a finite thing, and cannot contain anything.

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:01 pm

There is a single, intelligent Consciousness that pervades the entire Universe - the Universal Mind. It is all knowing, all powerful, all creative and always present. As it is present everywhere at the same time, it follows that it must also be present in you - that it is you. Your mind is part of the one Universal Mind. This is not simply a philosophical ideal passed down to us through the ages. It is an exact scientific truth. Know it, believe it, apply it and you will see your life transform in miraculous ways.

Albert Einstein told us that "everything is energy"; that "a human being is a part of the whole called by us [the] Universe". His words echoed the most ancient of spiritual and philosophical teachings and still underpin today's cutting-edge scientific discoveries. The Universal Mind goes by many names. In the scientific world we know of the Unified Field, in spiritual philosophy we refer to The All or Universal Consciousness and in religion we call upon God who Himself goes by many names - Jehovah, Allah and Brahman to mention but a few. The name is relevant only in so far as it resonates with you.

Any which way you cut it, you come to this one unavoidable conclusion: there is but One Consciousness of which your consciousness must be a part and "a part", as Charles Haanel said, "must be the same in kind and quality as the whole, the only difference being one of degree".

The nature of the Universal Mind is Omniscience (all knowing), Omnipotence (all powerful), Omnificence (all creative) and Omnipresence (always present). Know that this too is your nature. You have access to all knowledge, known and unknown; you have access to an infinite power for which nothing is impossible; you have access to the limitless creativity of the One Creator. All these attributes are present within you at all times in their potential form.

It is up to you to know and act upon your own nature. The inscription on the Ancient Greek Temple of Apollo at Delphi left no room for misunderstanding: "Know thyself and thou shalt know all the mysteries of the gods and the universe". It is through the power of your subconscious mind that you can learn to align yourself with the Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnificence of the Universal Mind at all times.

Each and every one of us is a manifestation of this single Universal Consciousness. There is profound truth in the ancient teaching that we are all One. We are all connected - not only to each other but to all of Nature and to everything in the Universe. This is the Law of One. What you do to others, you do to yourself. The way you treat Nature, you in fact treat yourself. The separateness you "see" is an illusion of the ego. The true nature of reality is non-dualistic, meaning that while things may appear distinct, they are not separate.

You are able to create your ideal reality because you are already connected to everything you desire. Nothing and no one is separate from you. You can experience happiness, true love, perfect health, abundance, wealth and anything else you desire. All you have to do is bring yourself into vibrational harmony with the nature of your desires through the creative power of your thoughts. To become the master of your destiny, you must master your thoughts.

In a nutshell, there is a single Consciousness, the Universal Mind, which pervades the entire Universe. It is all knowing, all powerful, all creative and always present everywhere at the same time. Your consciousness is part of it - it is It. All is One. You are connected to everything and every one. You are already connected to your desires. To the degree you truly comprehend and internalise this Truth, you will be able to become the master of your mind and the director of your life.

http://www.aboutmindpower.com/

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:03 pm

Kunga wrote:Many people do not realize the power of their unconscious minds.

You certainly don't. It's leading you up the garden path, and you've no idea it's happening.

Not surprising really since no one really teaches us how to use it! We get taught how to use our conscious minds through logical, linear teaching that we get in school and other ‘learned’ institutions – but there are no schools for the unconscious.

I am defining the unconscious mind as the part of us that we are not aware of at this very moment. For example, you are probably aware of reading the words on this page – that’s a pretty safe bet! You may be aware of the chair that you are sitting on, or wherever your body is as you read this. You may be not however, be aware of your breathing, your heart rate or your digestion. Now as I mention those things you may become aware of them – or not – depending on how your conscious mind is focussed. Most of us are not aware of our digestion for example unless we have in-digestion, in which case our unconscious makes us very aware of that!

The very fact of something not being part of one's awareness removes it from all possibility of being consciously used or controlled.

Your unconscious is responsible for all the things you do automatically – like driving your car, dressing, brushing your teeth etc. Originally you learned to do these things consciously – and if you remember, it was hard work when you were learning it for the first time – you were what we call ‘consciously incompetent’ at the task. Eventually, when you learned to drive your car for example, you became over time – unconsciously competent at it. You just don’t have to think about it any more. It’s automatic!

This guy is actually not very conscious. Things that are learnt consciously never quite escape the conscious, even when they are habitual. There is an underlying psychological need created by doing things repetitiously (that is, without reason), and if one does not follow the ritual, that need rears its ugly head. In other words, he is talking about semi-conscious behaviour - what he regards as consciousness.

The unconscious mind also:
- Runs the body – breathing, digestion, movement, B.P. etc.
- Is self-preserving – hard wired to maintain instincts – our survival mode operates unconsciously
- Generates energy – this becomes a problem when the energy can’t go anywhere and be dissipated. Energy is generated because of the ‘stress’ of survival. In the past (for example when we were hunter/gatherers) we required an energetic response that we now call ‘fight or flight’. We had to run away from our enemy or fight; or run to catch our dinner!

Energy is never generated, it is just reformed. Anyway, it's the semiconscious who experience the stress of antagonism, and isn't hardwired.

- Includes the emotional brain -- anger, love, fear, sadness etc.

This is the semiconscious, not the unconscious. These experiences are not hardwired into the brain, or else they would never end in the wise individual. Yet they do, to which I can testify.

- Perceives in whole or gestalts -- uses perceptions -- images, sounds, tastes, smells, and sensation as its means of communication.

This fellow is a therapy flake. What is perceiving or using as "its" means? He obviously believes that a soul resides in this unconscious. I'm not surprised you're quoting him.

- Stores and organizes all memories and experience.

Rubbish.

- Automatic in the sense that keeps doing the same thing, unless you tell it to do something different; needs repetition in order to learn.

The unconscious cannot learn. It is just stimulated unconsciously, such as by chemicals.

- Generalizes its response to other similar situations

Now he is attributing conscious traits to unconsciousness.

http://www.wellsphere.com/stress-relief ... ind/447436

Don't bother.

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Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:08 pm

Kunga wrote:There is a single, intelligent Consciousness that pervades the entire Universe - the Universal Mind. It is all knowing, all powerful, all creative and always present. As it is present everywhere at the same time, it follows that it must also be present in you - that it is you. Your mind is part of the one Universal Mind. This is not simply a philosophical ideal passed down to us through the ages. It is an exact scientific truth. Know it, believe it, apply it and you will see your life transform in miraculous ways.

This single paragraph contains sufficient evidence that the guy is an idiot. That you can't see that is probably unsurprising.

There are no scientific truths. There are only scientific theories. And it is misleading to call Reality conscious. Conscious experience is of something, so while it is made of the same causal stuff that everything outside and beyond mind is made of, it is impossible for Reality to be made only of that stuff that is conscious. The reason is because consciousness blocks something out in order to focus on something.

It's solipsistic to say that Reality must be only like what one experiences.

How much money does he get for massaging feminine egos, I wonder?

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Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:32 pm

Your intolerance of any criticism or truths exposing the fallacy of the masculine mind as being superior to the feminine mind has led you to ad hominem attacks......LOL

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:44 pm

Kunga, you haven't criticised anything. Critique is based on reasonable arguments. You've only provided flawed reasoning.

Kunga's quote of Wikipedia: In Hinduism the yab-yum has a slightly different meaning. There, the embraced posture represents the divine strength of creation. The Hindu concept is the one of a passive masculine deity embracing his spouse called shakti, which represents his activity or power. (from Wikipedia)

I replied: This is poetry. It's not promoting fucking, or embracing unconsciousness, or balancing emotion with reason. It's talking about the very nature of Reality itself, an idea which is clearly way over your head.

The core of my responses to you have no reliance on an ad hominem argument, at least, an ad hominem used improperly. An ad hominem attacks a person's character in the mistaken belief that the person's argument is thereby disproven. I have provided a surfeit of disproofs to show why your reasoning (or rather, the reasoning by the people you have quoted) is flawed. When you continue to present the exact same flawed reasoning and show a total incapacity to understand where you're going wrong, I have to conclude that you're unintelligent.

So, on top of my proof of how your reasoning was wrong, I added the proper use of argumentum ad hominem, since the proposition to be argued is: "You are not capable of understanding my argument, the evidence being x, y, z." I have done nothing irrational here except in thinking you can follow this.

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Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:59 pm

"Unconscious Mind" - what an incredible oxymoron.

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:04 pm

Your argument is not worth understanding. Your narrow views constrict a mind . The fact is... that your understanding of Ultimate Truth is flawed.

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:08 pm

I sincerely hope you can present an actual argument proving my views on Ultimate Truth wrong. Honestly.

No more mouthing sentiments, Kunga. No more flakey pastry. Put some meat in your pie before you serve it.

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jupiviv · Post by **jupiviv** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:09 pm

The term "unconscious mind" doesn't even make sense to me, because mind is the same as consciousness. However, this phrase probably means - "consciousness mingled with a lot of unconsciousness" - in which case it would be the emotional mind.

A note about western and eastern philosophy - eastern(Indian) philosophy is non-dualistic, and is about resting in the stillness of eternity. Western philosophy is more dualistic, and is about action, change, categorising and explaining things, etc. To my mind, both approaches are good, as they are two sides of the same coin. Interestingly, German philosophers(Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Eckhart) seem to have a bent towards non-dualism, and they also took an interest in Eastern philosophy.

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:16 pm

Huang Po, who said "All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists," is clearly not saying the same thing as the dude Kunga follows. Huang Po didn't call the One Mind nothing, nor did he say it was unconscious. He said:

This Mind, which is without beginning is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong in the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measures, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you - begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the half-baked mental spakfilla emitted by the author quoted by Kunga. To that crapologist, the "alpha and omega" is definitely his conscious experience, which he believes is qualitatively the same as the eternal. But this is wrong, because the eternal cannot be something conscious, because is in all things. Consciousness isn't in all things.

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Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:24 pm

Yes, Dan is right. The fellow says "It is through the power of your subconscious mind that you can learn to align yourself with the Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnificence of the Universal Mind at all times."

But the subconscious isn't accessible by consciousness, so he is basically saying that the mind is unconscious.

And this sounds like a descent into pure animality:

You can experience happiness, true love, perfect health, abundance, wealth and anything else you desire. All you have to do is bring yourself into vibrational harmony with the nature of your desires through the creative power of your thoughts.

Ugh. I didn't think anyone on this forum would ever quote such crap. Despite the huge gaping hole we have cut in Kunga's net, she refuses to dart through.

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Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:59 pm

Kelly Jones wrote:I sincerely hope you can present an actual argument proving my views on Ultimate Truth wrong. Honestly.

No more mouthing sentiments, Kunga. No more flakey pastry. Put some meat in your pie before you serve it.

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Does the Ultimate Truth have anything to do with the concepts dividing feminine & masculine ? If not...why do you spend all your time putting a wedge between them ? Why not provide more evidence based on insights into the true nature of Ultimate reality instead of mouthing regurgitated Western dualistic
philosophy ?

As Huang Po said ...there is but ONE MIND. WE ARE THAT ONE MIND.

Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:20 pm

In reality, women are more like rocks. (jupiviv)

And you're living on one :

http://blog.timesunion.com/simplerlivin ... -earth.jpg

Kelly Jones · Post by **Kelly Jones** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:23 pm

Kunga wrote:Does the Ultimate Truth have anything to do with the concepts dividing feminine & masculine ?

From several different perspectives, yes. There's the perspective that climbs from the form to the formless realms, and poetically relates the stillness of formlessness to the stillness of woman's passivity, and the activity of dualism to the creativity of men. That is pure poetry. Then there's the perspective of consciousness and scope, which sees that masculine-mindedness has far higher scope than feminine.

As Huang Po said ...there is but ONE MIND. WE ARE THAT ONE MIND.

Huang Po is being poetic here. He is not equating mind with consciousness. The One of which he speaks does not have any qualities or characteristics, such as subconsciousness, the ability to make you happy or healthy, or so forth. He does not have the same meaning for "mind" as the New Age therapist you quoted.

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Kunga · Post by **Kunga** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:36 pm

Kelly Jones wrote:
Kunga wrote:Does the Ultimate Truth have anything to do with the concepts dividing feminine & masculine ?
From several different perspectives, yes. There's the perspective that climbs from the form to the formless realms, and poetically relates the stillness of formlessness to the stillness of woman's passivity, and the activity of dualism to the creativity of men. That is pure poetry. Then there's the perspective of consciousness and scope, which sees that masculine-mindedness has far higher scope than feminine.

As Huang Po said ...there is but ONE MIND. WE ARE THAT ONE MIND.
Huang Po is being poetic here. He is not equating mind with consciousness. The One of which he speaks does not have any qualities or characteristics, such as subconsciousness, the ability to make you happy or healthy, or so forth. He does not have the same meaning for "mind" as the New Age therapist you quoted.

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Ultimate Truth has no perspectives. That's Conventional Truth (duality).

Then on one hand you praise the ability of men to be poetic, while criticizing the poetic symbolism expressed in the Yab-Yum representation of male/female consciousness.

Buddha is the ONE MIND. We are THAT (ONE MIND). That is not being poetic. THAT IS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH.

" This is a short extract by Huang Po on the nature of the mind and Buddha nature: All Buddhas and all ordinary beings are nothing but the one mind. This mind is beginningless and endless, unborn and indestructible. It has no color or shape, neither exists nor doesn't exist, isn't old or new, long or short, large or small, since it transcends all measures, limits, names, and comparisons. It is what you see in front of you.

Start to think about it and immediately you are mistaken. It is like the boundless void, which can't be fathomed or measured. The one mind is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between Buddha and ordinary beings, except that ordinary beings are attached to forms and thus seek for Buddhahood outside themselves. By this very seeking they lose it, since they are using Buddha to seek for Buddha, using mind to seek for mind. Even if they continue for a million eons, they will never be able to find it. They don't know that all they have to do is put a stop to conceptual thinking, and the Buddha will appear before them, because this mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not any less for being manifested in ordinary things, nor any greater for being manifested in Buddhas."

cousinbasil · Post by **cousinbasil** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:47 pm

Is it "Genius" to cut and paste into a forum? Honestly, Kunga, if you wish us to visit a link, just post the link, fair enough?

GENIUS FORUMS

The Woman's World

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