GENIUS FORUMS

When you know the TRUTH , DEPRESSION will take over. Need to live, need to be recognized start to wane. No need to exists. No need to argue. No need to teach. No need to save.

The opposite is STRONG BELIEF CHARACTER!.

All prophets are STRONG belief character. ANd all prophets are evil. Either Buddha to Jesus ...all of them EVIL.

If you know the truth , you know you can't save humans. Any attempt to be saviour is an attempt to making his ego bigger than what he is. No one can help others. You can only make others slave to your beliefs. Thats pure EVIL!.

No prophets wanted every one to be prophet like them. All propets wanted only one thing , more followers for his beliefs. So he can be the demiGOD!. what a crooks.

Millions die. No body even drop tears of people die in iraq or africa. They have become like some insects. All this mumbo jumbo crap philiosphy or mathematical argumenet won't free your mind. It only kills time.

you need to stop time. To do that you need to know who you are with the beliefs that enslaved you!.

peace
unknown

hi kevin,

You are in a loop!. When you really concentrate and try to answer , you will be in a loop.

You are making the answer you wanted to see.

Eliminate yourself (that you do not exists) and read my statements. You respond because you exists(your belief exists), your belief will react anything opposite of your beliefs. If you agree to something , then you your belief become silent.

peace
unknown

interesting.....ignorance posing as virtue, truth, a way..

Hi zara,

interesting is a coward statement!. Always Question people. All of them 100% fraud. No exception.

By questioning others you will see your own hypocrisy!.

Think

peace
unknown

Unknown wrote:

There is someone you have to read , not because of what he is, but there is a comedy.

The guy is UG. krishnamurti.

I wrote about UG a few years ago - http://www.theabsolute.net/minefield/ug.html

He was definitely an interesting charater, but flawed.

But he becomes a parrot. He wants to be recongnized. That is why he talks to people. Travel around the world. he is kind of showoff. He did one thing real good. He eliminated most concepts except his ego.

He is a fool in some sort because he exists and talk to people.

And here you are, on this forum, doing the same thing.

Skwark! Skwark! Skwark!

-

zarathustra wrote:

to Q: for what reason does 'cause' exist?

Why does causality exist, do you mean?

How can something which necessarily goes back forever have a reason for existing? It is timeless and beyond all explanation.

-

zarathustra wrote:

my considerations:

false ? true? value judgements. what is true for one man is not true for another.

Yes, what is true for the ignorant person is invariably not true for the sage.

as time goes by truth in science also changes.

Science doesn't deal in truths. It only deals in empirical speculation. The only truths which exist in the world are in the philosophic realm and they never change.

The great truths that I enjoy and understand in the here and now are the very same truths that were enjoyed and understood by wise men thousands of years ago. And without doubt, they are the very same truths that are enjoyed and understood by wise aliens on the other side of the universe, should any such aliens exist.

for me, I accept certain things about this world: primarily,that truth cannot be known.

To be honest, I can't see you ever giving that belief up. I feel it's become part of your identity. Even at 19, it would probably require too much upheaval and change for you to start placing value on truth. Best stick with the frivolities of poetry.

However ....

You should know that not only is this an article of faith on your part, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. The moment you decide that truth cannot be known, you automatically close yourself off from all possibility of ever knowing it. That's a very big decision to make, especially for a 19 year old. I personally don't know how you can do it.

-

Hi quinn,

You are mumbling...

I do not exists. Think. what i say do not exists.

You are in different dimensions(context).

Anything and everything you say is just reflection of your mind.

Peace
unknown

Skwark! Skwark! Skwark! Skwark! Skwark!

-

You are in a loop!. :)

Skwark! Skwark!

-

[quote="unknown"]When you know the TRUTH , DEPRESSION will take over. Need to live, need to be recognized start to wane. No need to exists. No need to argue. No need to teach. No need to save.

The opposite is STRONG BELIEF CHARACTER!.

All prophets are STRONG belief character. ANd all prophets are evil. Either Buddha to Jesus ...all of them EVIL.
unknown[/quote]

You preach a lot. I guess that makes you evil.

might it not be true that to maintain that nothing is true is necessarily also to maintain that everything is true? if nothing is true then there is no standard of truth or falsity, and if there is no such standard then nothing is false and if nothing is false then everything is true. or did we take a false step along the way...? maybe the notions of truth and falsity, themselves, are just tools that people use in order to get along in the world; perhaps existence is just attributed to certain of the mind's contents and withheld from others. Truth-apart-from-mind is a category whose contents are necessarily unavailable to us. does truth, then, have to mean "truth-apart-from-mind"? or is what is customarily called truth simply a division of the mind by itself, accordingly as its purposes dictate? and the purposes of whatever it belongs to?

Joel Knoll wrote:

might it not be true that to maintain that nothing is true is necessarily also to maintain that everything is true? if nothing is true then there is no standard of truth or falsity, and if there is no such standard then nothing is false and if nothing is false then everything is true. or did we take a false step along the way...?

Truth necessarily exists, as a function of existence. Even if a person is so brainwashed by postmodernism that he wants to insist that nothing is true, or there is no standard for truth or falsity, he is immediately affirming what he believes to be true. That is to say, he is affirming what he is trying to negate, which places him in a contradiction.

The truth is, it is impossible for truth not to exist, and it is impossible for the conscious mind not to believe in truth and place value on it. Postmodernism is a joke.

maybe the notions of truth and falsity, themselves, are just tools that people use in order to get along in the world;

If that is truly the case, then that would be the truth.

Truth is not just a tool; it is an absolute statement of what really exists.

perhaps existence is just attributed to certain of the mind's contents and withheld from others. Truth-apart-from-mind is a category whose contents are necessarily unavailable to us. does truth, then, have to mean "truth-apart-from-mind"? or is what is customarily called truth simply a division of the mind by itself, accordingly as its purposes dictate? and the purposes of whatever it belongs to?

The great truths of life necessarily appy to all realms of existence, both within the mind and beyond it - e.g. the truth that all things lack inherent existence.


-

nice work joel...I dips my hat to ya....

My words do not exists. I say nothing. It is the observer makes an illusion based on the what context they consume words.

No teaching. No preaching here. Except quinn wants to babble. But again every body babbles. So it is not only quinn's fault.

Every brain has its own maturity levels. Can't say one is better than others.

Truth exists only if you exists. it is just a reference. Once you do not exist, anything you experience do not exists.

And you do not exists actually except you all are conditioned and mentally raped by this society everyday and every moment.

Do not listen to me. Do not agree or disagree.

The villain is your mind not the surroundings you see. All you see is just reflection of your belief system.

When you remove your beliefs you cease to exist.

peace
unknown

nothing is easier than to insist that it is impossible that truth does not exist; one can, and must, always fall back on what we are conditioned, culturally and biologically, to assume about our experience. matters are complicated, however, when we begin to enumerate actual truths, as evidenced by the statement "... all things lack inherent existence". truth is not whatever we are able to say, but what we are compelled to think; likewise, the good is not whatever we are able to do, but what we are obliged to do. i am only compelled to think that i am the most important being in existence, and obliged to act accordingly. i am neither compelled nor obliged to think or behave in any other way. the same holds for everyone else. the "true" cannot be anything but the "expedient". this is what i mean when i say that the notion of truth is a tool; indeed, it is only rendered more effective when it is made to include Necessity, Eternity, Universality, Absoluteness, etc.

take your head out of your arse jo!!!!

Joel Knoll wrote:

the "true" cannot be anything but the "expedient".

This statement is subject to actual truth, though. If it's false, there's no point in considering it. If it's true then the statement itself is subject to expediency, which would make it true only for people who wanted it to be true. Some people want to know actual truth, though, so this idea wouldn't be expedient for them. This fact makes the whole statement false.

Adding to Matt's succinct point .....

Joel Knoll wrote:

nothing is easier than to insist that it is impossible that truth does not exist; one can, and must, always fall back on what we are conditioned, culturally and biologically, to assume about our experience. matters are complicated, however, when we begin to enumerate actual truths, as evidenced by the statement "... all things lack inherent existence".

Okay, let's consider a more obvious truth that even dullards cannot dispute - namely, that Reality is not nothing whatsoever. This is a very simple truth. There is nothing complicated about it and yet it is 100% true.

The belief that truths are necessarily complicated and contain hidden uncertainties is a lie.

truth is not whatever we are able to say, but what we are compelled to think;

Is this actually true, or merely what you are compelled to think?

i am only compelled to think that i am the most important being in existence, and obliged to act accordingly. i am neither compelled nor obliged to think or behave in any other way. the same holds for everyone else. the "true" cannot be anything but the "expedient".

Is this actually true, or is it merely something that is expedient for you to say?

A serious question, Joel: Just how seriously have you challenged your postmodernist education? It only takes a few seconds thought to overthrow the entire postmodernist ediface, yet it is amazing just how few people actually do it.

I doubt there have been such high levels of gullibility since the Middle Ages.

-

David Quinn wrote:

Adding to Matt's succinct point .....

Well, David, I didn't have anything else to say! That's that! End of story!

dq: let us clear the ground here. you are wrong if you think that im making the hackneyed old relativist argument, as if im another juvenile disciple of Nietzsche or Sartre; as for my "postmodernist" education, i don't have one to question. those are provisional and superficial distinctions. the question at hand is at least as old as protagoras; i am only saying that it cannot be solved simply by begging the question and saying "there must be a truth because it is true that there must be a truth". surely, a deeper (or higher) examination of the notion of truth itself - its origins and function in human life- cannot be entirely fruitless. if we must use tired labels, i am not a relativist, but an absolutist. however, i would rather call myself an anthropologist, because it is only from concrete human existence that truth derives its existence and its absoluteness. this is not relativism, or postmodernism. for the same Need that brings all things into being, is the Need that men invoke Truth in order to satisfy.

further considerations, dq: there is no truth; there is only conviction, of varying degrees of strength. there is no demonstration; there is only persuasion. there is no discernible difference between certain knowledge and infallible guesswork. the mind cannot know, unless the mind is known; but the mind cannot be known, until the mind knows. the mind has no authority except that which it bestows upon itself; but on what authority does the mind bestow authority upon itself? the first condition of human experience is a begging of the question. skepticism is the ineluctable end of the quest for the perfect argument, the impregnable syllogism. the body is the only organ of knowledge, that is, immediate relationship to its environment pleasure and pain are the ultimate in persuasion, and death is the final conviction of a man. all else is fortuitous assumption, lucky habits of the mind, the exercise of ingenuity in the war of each against all and for all.

Joel,

A "truth" is a fact that can't be refuted without falling into contradiction. The fact that reality is not nothing is an example because in order to refute it, the thoughts of the refutation must exist, and if anything at all exists then reality can't be nothing.

There, I just showed you the proof of a truth, but you have to prove it in your own mind in order to find truth. Truth can only be found using your own logic correctly.

Joel wrote:

dq: let us clear the ground here. you are wrong if you think that im making the hackneyed old relativist argument, as if im another juvenile disciple of Nietzsche or Sartre; as for my "postmodernist" education, i don't have one to question.

If that is true, then why did you write the following:

there is no truth; there is only conviction, of varying degrees of strength. there is no demonstration; there is only persuasion. there is no discernible difference between certain knowledge and infallible guesswork.

This is pure postmodernism. Nothing more, nothing less. And unfortunately, it reflects a mentality which has infiltrated our society at all levels. It's become so pervasive that it is easy to be unaware of it.

In my last post, I gave a simple example of a truth that even dullards cannot refute - namely, that Reality is not nothing whatosoever. Are you seriously going to suggest that you are not sure that Reality is not nothing whatsoever, that it is merely a speculative conviction on your part?

if we must use tired labels, i am not a relativist, but an absolutist.

Tired? These labels are as fresh and as relevent as they were on the first day they were conceived. The issues they address are timeless.

however, i would rather call myself an anthropologist, because it is only from concrete human existence that truth derives its existence and its absoluteness. this is not relativism, or postmodernism. for the same Need that brings all things into being, is the Need that men invoke Truth in order to satisfy.

True, everything evolves out of concrete existence, even the desire for Truth. But this doesn't say anything one or the other about whether Truth actually exists and whether the mind has the ability to access it. That's another issue entirely, and it can't be resolved through anthropology.

skepticism is the ineluctable end of the quest for the perfect argument, the impregnable syllogism. skepticism is the ineluctable end of the quest for the perfect argument, the impregnable syllogism. the body is the only organ of knowledge, that is, immediate relationship to its environment pleasure and pain are the ultimate in persuasion, and death is the final conviction of a man. all else is fortuitous assumption, lucky habits of the mind, the exercise of ingenuity in the war of each against all and for all.

Joel, you need to direct your skepticism towards these very beliefs themselves. As it stands, you are nowhere near skeptical enough to become conscious of truth.

-