GENIUS FORUMS

I don't think the 2nd ingredient - the mental ingredient - can alone hold a nation together, since it's a just a belief, and building a nation on electrical activity in the brain is buildig a house on sand.

How can you say that? Was not everything you yourself (some of which I consider to be astute observation) just proposed not a “house built on sand”? I mean, it’s not as if there could even be such recognition and differentiation without this apparently trivial “electrical activity.”

Thought and ideas have their uses, though a nation cannot be built solely on the ideas or a common set of principles about government (e.g. Democracy) - as these are so heavily subject to change. Afterall, the idea a "nation of immigrants" meant just 50 years ago immigrants from Europe, and 50 years before that preferably from Northern Europe (even Finns were literally categorized as 'colored').
Today it means anyone, from anywhere, however they got here, irregardless of where their loyalties lie.

The idea of a common people must have biological backing - the physical fact is necessary to maintain the idea long-term.

Plato made a critical distinction between matter and form; Weininger summed it up well:

Matter, which in itself is absolutely unindividualised and so can assume any form, of itself has no definite and lasting qualities, and has as little essence as mere perception, the matter of experience, has in itself any existence.

Now imagine America and China.
If America opts to be Everything instead Something - Matter instead of Form - and gives up Western Culture for World Culture (an oxymoron in the same vein "group-personality" would be) then it will lose all claim to Worth - which is created by uniqueness/individuality and timelessness.

And whereas a China can forever retain and refine it's soul for the Chinese conception of achitecture, orthography, painting, sculpture, draughstmanship, poetry, and music, it's ideas of philosophy, morality, and beauty, of man's relation to the state, to God, and to the cosmos - the post-1960s America (and the post-1945 West) going it's current course cannot.
Rome, London, Berlin, Paris, and Madrid will share the same spiritual status as Luxor, Quatzecoatl, and Tenochtitlan.
They will have all matter and no form. Where once existed great nations, spiritual and artistic dynamism, and a wholly unique and completed vision of man, culture, and beauty there will be ponderous masses from all corners of the globe with no feeling for or loyalty to the Western idea we allowed them to erase.

Multiculturalism is nihilism - the will to nothingness - it is death. And like most ideas that appeal to the far left it needs recruits from life-affirming philosophies to sustain itself. Without individual cultures that arose with patience and isolation there could be no multiculturalism.
Multiculturalism destroys itself upon it's creation of monoculture, or more accurately anti-culture.

Though I'd argue multiculturalism is only a symptom of the modern West's disease. The West's art - the physical representation of it's soul - has long been devoid of meaning, from abstract 'art' to pop music, and taking a decline which got markedly steeper following the Second World War.

If the degeneration from

Beethoven --> 50 Cent
Michelangelo --> Kandinsky

tells us anything, it's that multiculturalism (and the mass immigration and poltical and/or religious violence that attends it) and the two horribly fratricidal wars which laid the ground-work for it, is probably a manifestation of the longing that great men and high cultures have... for spiritual death to be followed as rapidly as possible by physical death.

If unconsciousness is the world of sensuality and consciousness the world of pure logic/reason, where do you draw the line between the two in “phenotypic similarity”?

In politics logic and reason are helpful, though the irrational and emotive are far more decisive and necessary in the shaping of the world stage. There are no reasons why the world is organized into nations instead of some kind of book club or why people wage wars instead of negotiating peacefully - these are simply material facts that like all material facts created by humans have deep spiritual drives and undercurrents as their origin.
Do I know precisely why homogenous societies can last for thousands of years where synthetic nations last for at most a few hundred? No - though I don't need to.
In the realm of morality, logic and reason have their place - though when making a politically wise decision, results the only consideration that matters.

Few become universal men - geniuses - who are above creating a Friend/Enemy distinction when looking across the panoply of peoples and cultures, and seeing people behind distant borders, with different gods and moralities and sensibilities - and accepts humanity for what it is.

“We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.”

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


YeasI'll respond 2 the rest later.
Less typey.
More Smirnoff :D

La Verdad,

Thought and ideas have their uses, though a nation cannot be built solely on the ideas or a common set of principles about government (e.g. Democracy) - as these are so heavily subject to change. Afterall, the idea a "nation of immigrants" meant just 50 years ago immigrants from Europe, and 50 years before that preferably from Northern Europe (even Finns were literally categorized as 'colored'). Today it means anyone, from anywhere, however they got here, irregardless of where their loyalties lie.

The idea of a common people must have biological backing - the physical fact is necessary to maintain the idea long-term.

Plato made a critical distinction between matter and form; Weininger summed it up well:

Quote: Matter, which in itself is absolutely unindividualised and so can assume any form, of itself has no definite and lasting qualities, and has as little essence as mere perception, the matter of experience, has in itself any existence.

Weininger was indeed an excellent thinker and writer. But I don’t think you and I are reading him in the same way, which may be because I am going solely on the few lines you have quoted on this subject. Let’s see how you think my reasoning fares:

Matter (the objective universe/physical objects--including forces), which in itself is absolutely unindividualised and so can assume any (and all objective) form(/s), of itself has no definite and lasting qualities, and has as little essence as mere perception, the matter of experience, has in itself any existence.

So he is saying form is (unindividualised) matter (which, I might add, is a perception) plus essence; and that essence can only find existence in the finite nature of matter as form.

Thus, form is individualised matter. It also represents consciousness/masculinity, and all the degrees and lack thereof.

I do agree that the idea of a common people must have “biological backing.” It is precisely what makes them common, by all definitions of the word. You can see that in all man’s endeavours.

I do not agree that such an existence is the essence of individuality, however. Otherwise, you might as call Hitler a genius. Of course, he filled a much needed role for the common German folk; but genius? On the grounds of commonality?

Those Jews have done nothing but cost a lot of people a lot of money (among other things) ever since.

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." (Or some such thing.)

How doth the pendulum violently swing at the hand of unconscious momentum.

.

Nick wrote: This mode of thinking is absolutely unreasonable for the man who disconnects from his culture and becomes an individual.

No man can ever completely disconnect from his culture. This very notion of extreme individuality is, in fact, a cognition unique to western culture.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote: This mode of thinking is absolutely unreasonable for the man who disconnects from his culture and becomes an individual.

No man can ever completely disconnect from his culture. This very notion of extreme individuality is, in fact, a cognition unique to western culture.

Why can't a man disconnect from his culture? There have been many individuals who have disconnected from their culture all through out history, even before western culture. If a true individual ever appears to be in sync with any type of popular culture it is only by chance. And if you look a little deeper you will see that the reasoning behind their actions and convictions are drastically different.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote: This mode of thinking is absolutely unreasonable for the man who disconnects from his culture and becomes an individual.

No man can ever completely disconnect from his culture. This very notion of extreme individuality is, in fact, a cognition unique to western culture.

Why can't a man disconnect from his culture? There have been many individuals who have disconnected from their culture all through out history, even before western culture. If a true individual ever appears to be in sync with any type of popular culture it is only by chance. And if you look a little deeper you will see that the reasoning behind their actions and convictions are drastically different.

The very thoughts in a man's brain, the words he thinks in, are culturally determined.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote: This mode of thinking is absolutely unreasonable for the man who disconnects from his culture and becomes an individual.

No man can ever completely disconnect from his culture. This very notion of extreme individuality is, in fact, a cognition unique to western culture.

Why can't a man disconnect from his culture? There have been many individuals who have disconnected from their culture all through out history, even before western culture. If a true individual ever appears to be in sync with any type of popular culture it is only by chance. And if you look a little deeper you will see that the reasoning behind their actions and convictions are drastically different.

The very thoughts in a man's brain, the words he thinks in, are culturally determined.

What you are saying is fairly pointless when it comes to a man's reasoning. Sure there will always be things he uses from his culture, such as language or money, but these things have nothing to do with his reasoning and thoughts. Once you disconnect you can pick and choose the things from culture that benefit you, without having them manipulate your mind. Once he starts letting Truth guide him, certain aspects of culture simply become tools at his disposal and nothing more.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote: No man can ever completely disconnect from his culture. This very notion of extreme individuality is, in fact, a cognition unique to western culture.

Why can't a man disconnect from his culture? There have been many individuals who have disconnected from their culture all through out history, even before western culture. If a true individual ever appears to be in sync with any type of popular culture it is only by chance. And if you look a little deeper you will see that the reasoning behind their actions and convictions are drastically different.

The very thoughts in a man's brain, the words he thinks in, are culturally determined.

What you are saying is fairly pointless when it comes to a man's reasoning.

I disagree fully.

Sure there will always be things he uses from his culture, such as language or money, but these things have nothing to do with his reasoning and thoughts.

Are you sure about that? You're completely wrong.

Once you disconnect you can pick and choose the things from culture that benefit you, without having them manipulate your mind. Once he starts letting Truth guide him, certain aspects of culture simply become tools at his disposal and nothing more.

He can reject some values, but a full disconnect is very impossible, my dear.

The difference between one who disconnects from his culture and one who doesn't is that the one who discconects influences culture, while the one who doesn't is influenced by culture. Further, one who disconnects from his culture does not allow culture to dictate him in any way. He only uses certain aspects of culture which benefit his own well being without being sucked in by them.

On a side note, you certainly claim many things, but you seem to be too lazy to clarify the reasoning behind these claims. If you want me to engage in any further discussions with you, start providing some reasoning to your arguments, rather than just saying I'm wrong or you're right. It's pointless for you to post if that's all you care to add to this discussion.

Nick wrote:The difference between one who disconnects from his culture and one who doesn't is that the one who discconects influences culture, while the one who doesn't is influenced by culture.

Simplistic and wrong. Journals and politicians, educators and parents all influence culture, and are part of it.

Further, one who disconnects from his culture does not allow culture to dictate him in any way.

Allow me to reassert. Your very brain structure is dictated by the culture around you. Considering this, you can never escape it.

Research feral children.

He only uses certain aspects of culture which benefit his own well being without being sucked in by them.

Can you claryifying "using" vs. "sucked in by"?

On a side note, you certainly claim many things, but you seem to be too lazy to clarify the reasoning behind these claims. If you want me to engage in any further discussions with you, start providing some reasoning to your arguments, rather than just saying I'm wrong or you're right. It's pointless for you to post if that's all you care to add to this discussion.

I claim many things. I am right. If you disagree, you may clarify the reasoning behind your disagreement.

I have made my point. "being separate from one's culture" is an illusion.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:The difference between one who disconnects from his culture and one who doesn't is that the one who discconects influences culture, while the one who doesn't is influenced by culture.

Simplistic and wrong. Journals and politicians, educators and parents all influence culture, and are part of it.

The roles you mentioned all work within the confines of culture. Their decisions are always made with their relationship with culture in mind. The individual may appear to be working within the culture, but if you take a closer look you will see he shows total disregard as to whether his actions benefit or destroy culture.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:Further, one who disconnects from his culture does not allow culture to dictate him in any way.

Allow me to reassert. Your very brain structure is dictated by the culture around you. Considering this, you can never escape it.

Research feral children.

This may be the case for you, but for the individual the only thing that dictates him is Truth. Once Truth becomes your guide everything else melts away.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:He only uses certain aspects of culture which benefit his own well being without being sucked in by them.

Can you claryifying "using" vs. "sucked in by"?

Well, the individual can use the cultures language, money, or building structures to maintain his life. Although he doesn't allow these things to suck him in, or to manipulate him into thinking that within the confines of that pariticular culture. He still values Truth and Truth alone gives him the ability to overcome this.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:On a side note, you certainly claim many things, but you seem to be too lazy to clarify the reasoning behind these claims. If you want me to engage in any further discussions with you, start providing some reasoning to your arguments, rather than just saying I'm wrong or you're right. It's pointless for you to post if that's all you care to add to this discussion.

I claim many things. I am right. If you disagree, you may clarify the reasoning behind your disagreement.

I have made my point. "being separate from one's culture" is an illusion.

Why not admit you are too lazy to show reasoning for any of your claims, which you still have failed to do. With your one liner responses that have no argument behind them. If I was arguing that the sky is blue because blue sunlight collides with air molecules and we perceive it as blue, your response is comparable to saying the sky is red and offering no explanation as to why this would be the case.

Nick. I'll reply once you fix your butcher job on quote tags.

millipodium wrote:Nick. I'll reply once you fix your butcher job on quote tags.

It wasn't very hard to read in the first place.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:The difference between one who disconnects from his culture and one who doesn't is that the one who discconects influences culture, while the one who doesn't is influenced by culture.

Simplistic and wrong. Journals and politicians, educators and parents all influence culture, and are part of it.

The roles you mentioned all work within the confines of culture. Their decisions are always made with their relationship with culture in mind.

They work within the culture, and they also set the direction for the culture going forward. Thus, your assertion that only those operating outside culture can change it is wildly misthunked.

The individual may appear to be working within the culture, but if you take a closer look you will see he shows total disregard as to whether his actions benefit or destroy culture.

That's your opinion on the direction he's going. Of course, it's your right to question and debate that. I too have many problems with where the elites are taking the culture. But there is no doubt they're taking it somewhere. Thus, they are IN culture, AND are changing it.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:Further, one who disconnects from his culture does not allow culture to dictate him in any way.

Allow me to reassert. Your very brain structure is dictated by the culture around you. Considering this, you can never escape it.

Research feral children.

This may be the case for you, but for the individual the only thing that dictates him is Truth. Once Truth becomes your guide everything else melts away.

I'm sorry. You cannot escape the organic structure of your brain. And it was formed in reaction to cultural stimuli.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:He only uses certain aspects of culture which benefit his own well being without being sucked in by them.

Can you claryifying "using" vs. "sucked in by"?

Well, the individual can use the cultures language, money, or building structures to maintain his life. Although he doesn't allow these things to suck him in, or to manipulate him into thinking that within the confines of that pariticular culture. He still values Truth and Truth alone gives him the ability to overcome this.

so the "using" versus the "sucked in by" is pretty hard line to draw. I see.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:On a side note, you certainly claim many things, but you seem to be too lazy to clarify the reasoning behind these claims.

Actually, I've been quite responsive in clarifying my points. You just don't like your unproveable and vague gobledygook thoughts being questioned.

If you want me to engage in any further discussions with you, start providing some reasoning to your arguments, rather than just saying I'm wrong or you're right. It's pointless for you to post if that's all you care to add to this discussion.

The point is simple. I've made it many times. Even if you go sit in the woods for years, the symbols in which you think were transmitted to you culturally, and are cultural artifacts, and the brain with which you think them has been literally formed from the culture you grew up in.

I claim many things. I am right. If you disagree, you may clarify the reasoning behind your disagreement.

I have made my point. "being separate from one's culture" is an illusion.

Why not admit you are too lazy to show reasoning for any of your claims, which you still have failed to do.

I've shown my reasoning. Your mind is just too inflexible to internalize it's own wrongness in this matter.

With your one liner responses that have no argument behind them. If I was arguing that the sky is blue because blue sunlight collides with air molecules and we perceive it as blue, your response is comparable to saying the sky is red and offering no explanation as to why this would be the case.

No. This discussion is more like you asserting "the sky is red because I say it's red", and then me chiming in with the wisdom of a sage, "But grasshopper, the sky is actually blue".

millipodium wrote:They work within the culture, and they also set the direction for the culture going forward. Thus, your assertion that only those operating outside culture can change it is wildly misthunked.

millipodium wrote:That's your opinion on the direction he's going. Of course, it's your right to question and debate that. I too have many problems with where the elites are taking the culture. But there is no doubt they're taking it somewhere. Thus, they are IN culture, AND are changing it.

I didn't say that people operating within the confines of culture don't have the ability to change it. What I am saying is that their decisions are made with the intention of maintaing a particular culture and tweaking it in accordance with their own interests. Unlike the individual who sees culture as an obstacle which needs to be overcome in order to seek Truth. Everything in the universe has a casual relationship.

millipodium wrote: I'm sorry. You cannot escape the organic structure of your brain. And it was formed in reaction to cultural stimuli.

No doubt our brains have evolved under the influence of human culture, but that's only one out of an infinite number of things that has influenced our development. We certainly can't escape cause and effect, making it impossible for us to truly have freewill. But that doesn't mean one can't end up grasping a higher consciousness to understand his true nature and not let something such as culture dominate him and his decisions. Instead the individual allows Truth to dominate him.

millipodium wrote:so the "using" versus the "sucked in by" is pretty hard line to draw. I see.

Not really. I use my culture's language and money. But I don't consider these things to be status symbols. Nor do I let them influence or define my character. I use them for what they are, it's that simple.

millipodium wrote:I've shown my reasoning. Your mind is just too inflexible to internalize it's own wrongness in this matter.

On the contrary, it is you who is too inflexible due to your character being dictated by culture, not allowing you to see how people can develop themselves outside the confines of culture.

millipodium wrote:No. This discussion is more like you asserting "the sky is red because I say it's red", and then me chiming in with the wisdom of a sage, "But grasshopper, the sky is actually blue".

The point is you're intellect is lacking when it comes to giving your stance a solid argument to back it up.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:They work within the culture, and they also set the direction for the culture going forward. Thus, your assertion that only those operating outside culture can change it is wildly misthunked.

millipodium wrote:That's your opinion on the direction he's going. Of course, it's your right to question and debate that. I too have many problems with where the elites are taking the culture. But there is no doubt they're taking it somewhere. Thus, they are IN culture, AND are changing it.

I didn't say that people operating within the confines of culture don't have the ability to change it. What I am saying is that their decisions are made with the intention of maintaing a particular culture and tweaking it in accordance with their own interests. Unlike the individual who sees culture as an obstacle which needs to be overcome in order to seek Truth. Everything in the universe has a casual relationship.

you made the sweeping implication that only those outside culture can change it. That's whacked. Tweaking it is also changing it. In fact I would say those working within the culture to change have more influence than all the backwoods guerilla fighter wannabes combined.

Culture has some good things too. To want to eliminate all of culture is insane, and impossible. You want to eliminate language? Pair bonding? Maternal/paternal care?

millipodium wrote: I'm sorry. You cannot escape the organic structure of your brain. And it was formed in reaction to cultural stimuli.

No doubt our brains have evolved under the influence of human culture, but that's only one out of an infinite number of things that has influenced our development. We certainly can't escape cause and effect, making it impossible for us to truly have freewill. But that doesn't mean one can't end up grasping a higher consciousness to understand his true nature and not let something such as culture dominate him and his decisions. Instead the individual allows Truth to dominate him.

Our culture is THE defining character of our brain and thoughts. you can't escape it's influence no matter how long you live in the woods in a shack, covered in your own filth.

millipodium wrote:so the "using" versus the "sucked in by" is pretty hard line to draw. I see.

Not really. I use my culture's language and money. But I don't consider these things to be status symbols. Nor do I let them influence or define my character. I use them for what they are, it's that simple.

So you're not status conscious. That doesn't mean you exist outside society.

millipodium wrote:I've shown my reasoning. Your mind is just too inflexible to internalize it's own wrongness in this matter.

On the contrary, it is you who is too inflexible due to your character being dictated by culture, not allowing you to see how people can develop themselves outside the confines of culture.

Our culture fully contains the concept of a pretentious shutin. You're not a rebel.

millipodium wrote:No. This discussion is more like you asserting "the sky is red because I say it's red", and then me chiming in with the wisdom of a sage, "But grasshopper, the sky is actually blue".

The point is you're intellect is lacking when it comes to giving your stance a solid argument to back it up.

No. You just have a completely overblown view of the extent you're "outside society" just because you don't "keep up with the joneses".

millipodium wrote:Culture has some good things too. To want to eliminate all of culture is insane, and impossible. You want to eliminate language? Pair bonding? Maternal/paternal care?

I didn't say eliminate, I said overcome. There is a lot of ignorance and stupidity in culture which can stunt peoples spiritual growth.

millipodium wrote:Our culture is THE defining character of our brain and thoughts. you can't escape it's influence no matter how long you live in the woods in a shack, covered in your own filth.

Your viewing culture as if it where the totality itself. This is not the case, culture is solely a product of human work and thought. Our bodys and minds are a result of an infinite number of causes, culture being just one part of that.

millipodium wrote:So you're not status conscious. That doesn't mean you exist outside society.

Once again your misconstruing what I have said. I never said I existed outside of society. What I don't do is allow the different cultures around me to impress me with their ignorance and stupidity. I keep a clear and open mind which is susceptible to Truth.

millipodium wrote:Our culture fully contains the concept of a pretentious shutin. You're not a rebel.

Whos culture is "our culture", there are many different cultures on this planet. You seem to be mistaking society with culture again. Society is simply human interaction, culture is all the bells and whistles certain groups of people try and mix it with.

millipodium wrote:No. You just have a completely overblown view of the extent you're "outside society" just because you don't "keep up with the joneses".

Why do you still insist on bringing society into the equation when it is clear I am discussing culture. The fact that I am using this forum to communicate with others makes it obvious that I am functioning in society. Try a little harder to stay on track.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:Culture has some good things too. To want to eliminate all of culture is insane, and impossible. You want to eliminate language? Pair bonding? Maternal/paternal care?

I didn't say eliminate, I said overcome. There is a lot of ignorance and stupidity in culture which can stunt peoples spiritual growth.

millipodium wrote:Our culture is THE defining character of our brain and thoughts. you can't escape it's influence no matter how long you live in the woods in a shack, covered in your own filth.

Your viewing culture as if it where the totality itself.

No I don't. I reject your strawman.

This is not the case, culture is solely a product of human work and thought. Our bodys and minds are a result of an infinite number of causes, culture being just one part of that.

The greatest part of that.

millipodium wrote:So you're not status conscious. That doesn't mean you exist outside society.

Once again your misconstruing what I have said. I never said I existed outside of society. What I don't do is allow the different cultures around me to impress me with their ignorance and stupidity. I keep a clear and open mind which is susceptible to Truth.

I knew another guys who always said "I didn't say that, I didn't say that". He was funny too.

millipodium wrote:Our culture fully contains the concept of a pretentious shutin. You're not a rebel.

Whos culture is "our culture", there are many different cultures on this planet. You seem to be mistaking society with culture again. Society is simply human interaction, culture is all the bells and whistles certain groups of people try and mix it with.

All cultures understand the concepts of a shutin. All societies as well. This parsing of words is tedious, but if we must do this, I understand that's your stage of intellctual growth. I will be here for you.

millipodium wrote:No. You just have a completely overblown view of the extent you're "outside society" just because you don't "keep up with the joneses".

Why do you still insist on bringing society into the equation when it is clear I am discussing culture. The fact that I am using this forum to communicate with others makes it obvious that I am functioning in society. Try a little harder to stay on track.

So NOW there's some huge disctinction between society and culture and I used the wrong word. See how pathetic this is?

I will not let your parsing of words down to ever more subtle definitions shut down the conversation.

One cannot never be outside culture or society, because these two have effected in a profound way the way we think and the very organic structure of our brains. Your false belief that you are above it all moreso than you really are, is merely a manifestation of your contempt for fellow man.

millipodium wrote: Our culture is THE defining character of our brain and thoughts. you can't escape it's influence no matter how long you live in the woods in a shack, covered in your own filth.

Your viewing culture as if it where the totality itself.

No I don't. I reject your strawman.

You said culture is "THE defining character of our brain and thoughts." By saying that you are proclaiming it has the same value as the entire Universe. Your rampant contradictions are catching up to you.

millipodium wrote:The greatest part of that.

On a scale of infinite, there is no such thing as great or small. Everything is infinitely small compared to the endless chain of cause and effect. Your ignorance is catching up to you.

millipodium wrote:I knew another guys who always said "I didn't say that, I didn't say that". He was funny too.

So you find it amusing that people have to repeat what they have said because you refuse to accept it the first time around. Your arrogance is catching up to you.

millipodium wrote:All cultures understand the concepts of a shutin. All societies as well. This parsing of words is tedious, but if we must do this, I understand that's your stage of intellctual growth. I will be here for you.

You expect me to believe you are an expert in the practices and traditions of all cultures? Your lies are catching up to you.

millipodium wrote:So NOW there's some huge disctinction between society and culture and I used the wrong word. See how pathetic this is?

I will not let your parsing of words down to ever more subtle definitions shut down the conversation.

There has been a distinction between the two words since they were first defined. I use words in their correct context, this is the reason why we have different words to express ourselves. Your lack of education is catching up to you.

millipodium wrote:One cannot never be outside culture or society, because these two have effected in a profound way the way we think and the very organic structure of our brains. Your false belief that you are above it all moreso than you really are, is merely a manifestation of your contempt for fellow man.

Again, I don't know why you keep bringing up society when we are in fact discussing culture. There is a difference between the two whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. And it is you who is demonstrating your contempt for your fellow man by proclaiming he can never escape the ignorance and stupidity of his culture just because you don't see your self capable of accomplishing such a thing. Your insanity is catching up to you.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote: Our culture is THE defining character of our brain and thoughts. you can't escape it's influence no matter how long you live in the woods in a shack, covered in your own filth.

Your viewing culture as if it where the totality itself.

No I don't. I reject your strawman.

You said culture is "THE defining character of our brain and thoughts." By saying that you are proclaiming it has the same value as the entire Universe. Your rampant contradictions are catching up to you.

No. I said culture DEFINES the basic character of our brains and thoughts. It's slightly different that what you're saying. It's sad you must misrepresent me.

millipodium wrote:The greatest part of that.

On a scale of infinite, there is no such thing as great or small. Everything is infinitely small compared to the endless chain of cause and effect. Your ignorance is catching up to you.

We're not on a scale of infinite. Culture is what most greatly defines our brains and thoughts. Not that that totally negates originality.

millipodium wrote:I knew another guys who always said "I didn't say that, I didn't say that". He was funny too.

So you find it amusing that people have to repeat what they have said because you refuse to accept it the first time around. Your arrogance is catching up to you.

Not at all. I'm whipping your ass.

millipodium wrote:All cultures understand the concepts of a shutin. All societies as well. This parsing of words is tedious, but if we must do this, I understand that's your stage of intellctual growth. I will be here for you.

You expect me to believe you are an expert in the practices and traditions of all cultures? Your lies are catching up to you.

I never said I was an expert in all cutures. Tell me one culture which doesn't have within it the concept of one who drops out of it. Eremitism, hermitism is known by different names in many cultures. It's not revolutionary.

millipodium wrote:So NOW there's some huge disctinction between society and culture and I used the wrong word. See how pathetic this is?

I will not let your parsing of words down to ever more subtle definitions shut down the conversation.

There has been a distinction between the two words since they were first defined. I use words in their correct context, this is the reason why we have different words to express ourselves. Your lack of education is catching up to you.

Culture doesn't exist without a society for it's memes to inhabit. ANd very few societies exist without some cultural ideas holding them together. SO the difference is really not so great as to be a conversation stopper. Whether you drop out of society or society's culture, is not a huge distinction.

millipodium wrote:One cannot never be outside culture or society, because these two have effected in a profound way the way we think and the very organic structure of our brains. Your false belief that you are above it all moreso than you really are, is merely a manifestation of your contempt for fellow man.

Again, I don't know why you keep bringing up society when we are in fact discussing culture. There is a difference between the two whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. And it is you who is demonstrating your contempt for your fellow man by proclaiming he can never escape the ignorance and stupidity of his culture just because you don't see your self capable of accomplishing such a thing. Your insanity is catching up to you.

Again, whether you drop out of society, or society's culture is not a big distinction, and most societies/cultures have built within in them the concept of dropping out. You're amazingly mundane, for a genius.

millipodium wrote:We're not on a scale of infinite. Culture is what most greatly defines our brains and thoughts. Not that that totally negates originality.

If were not on a scale of infinite, then you believe in creationism I assume? Also, you have it backwards, our brains, thoughts, and aspirations are what defines culture. Not the other way around.

millipodium wrote:I never said I was an expert in all cutures. Tell me one culture which doesn't have within it the concept of one who drops out of it. Eremitism, hermitism is known by different names in many cultures. It's not revolutionary.

A culture can create a concept or define something in vain however it wants to. It's irrelevant to the individual.

millipodium wrote:Culture doesn't exist without a society for it's memes to inhabit. ANd very few societies exist without some cultural ideas holding them together. SO the difference is really not so great as to be a conversation stopper. Whether you drop out of society or society's culture, is not a huge distinction.

Society is simply human interaction. Culture is a complex product of human work and thought, such as art, religion, or science. You can remain in denial all you like, the definitions aren't going to change for you.

millipodium wrote:One cannot never be outside culture or society, because these two have effected in a profound way the way we think and the very organic structure of our brains.

Here you have clearly contradicted yourself again. You said earlier:

They work within the culture, and they also set the direction for the culture going forward.

How can man set the direction for culture when you claim it is culture who defines man? You are absolutely insane.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:We're not on a scale of infinite. Culture is what most greatly defines our brains and thoughts. Not that that totally negates originality.

If were not on a scale of infinite, then you believe in creationism I assume? Also, you have it backwards, our brains, thoughts, and aspirations are what defines culture. Not the other way around.

millipodium wrote:I never said I was an expert in all cutures. Tell me one culture which doesn't have within it the concept of one who drops out of it. Eremitism, hermitism is known by different names in many cultures. It's not revolutionary.

A culture can create a concept or define something in vain however it wants to. It's irrelevant to the individual.

millipodium wrote:Culture doesn't exist without a society for it's memes to inhabit. ANd very few societies exist without some cultural ideas holding them together. SO the difference is really not so great as to be a conversation stopper. Whether you drop out of society or society's culture, is not a huge distinction.

Society is simply human interaction. Culture is a complex product of human work and thought, such as art, religion, or science. You can remain in denial all you like, the definitions aren't going to change for you.

millipodium wrote:One cannot never be outside culture or society, because these two have effected in a profound way the way we think and the very organic structure of our brains.

Here you have clearly contradicted yourself again. You said earlier:

They work within the culture, and they also set the direction for the culture going forward.

How can man set the direction for culture when you claim it is culture who defines man? You are absolutely insane.

Don't be so dense. we all form and are formed by culture from the moment of birth. We are bombarded with urges and satisfaction, means of matching them up by communicating with our surrounds physically, but most imporantly, socially. We learn that hunger is satisfied by getting the mother to whip it out. At the most primal level, survival is a gift from another. This relationship means life. Our social nature has been with us since basic tit-based mammalian pair bonds. Most of our culture is window dressing on this basic diad.

Artist: Percy Sledge Lyrics
Song: When A Man Loves A Woman Lyrics
When a man loves a woman
Can't keep his mind on nothing else
He'll trade the world
For the good thing he's found
If she's bad he can't see it
She can do no wrong
Turn his back on his best friend
If he put her down

When a man loves a woman
Spend his very last dime
Tryin' to hold on to what he needs
He'd give up all his comfort
Sleep out in the rain
If she said that's the way it ought to be

Well, this man loves a woman
I gave you everything I had
Tryin' to hold on to your precious love
Baby, please don't treat me bad

When a man loves a woman
Down deep in his soul
She can bring him such misery
If she plays him for a fool
He's the last one to know
Lovin' eyes can't ever see

When a man loves a woman
He can do no wrong
He can never own some other girl
Yes when a man loves a woman
I know exactly how he feels
'Cause baby, baby, baby, you're my world

When a man loves a woman.....

Your ignorance is diabolical.

Nick wrote:Your ignorance is diabolical.

Your understanding of man is miniscule.

I will come back to this and possibly add on to what i have to say. Only becouse i have not had time to read every reply on the subject.

1- Racism as a root is the stem of anger based soley on prejudic on race. pretty easy to understand. Stereotyping is the root of racsim. To stereotype is to make assumption on/of a person based soley on color, ethnic backround and so forth. Racsim is not exactly the fear of or the stereotyp of a race. Racsim is hating key word being hate. hating some one and individual soley becouse they belong to a certain ethnic group, religouse creed and so forth.

2- On the poem

Basically, Black = Evil, White = Good. Sadly, even the so called “blacks” or “dark skinned” people themselves believe to be inferior. Both, the whites as well as the blacks need to be educated.

A poem nominated for the best poem of 2005 written by an African kid;

When I born, I black,
When I grow up, I black,
When I go in the sun, I black,
When I cold, I black,
When I scared, I black,
When I sick, I black,
And when I die I black.

And you white fella,

When you born, you pink,
When you grow up, you white,
When you go in the sun, you red,
When you cold, you blue,
When you scared, you yellow,
When you sick, you green,
When you die, you gray,

And you call me colored???

are you gonna make the judgment that most blacks feel inferior on one poem by a single african child? I myself am black. I dont inferior or above any one. I belive the poem makes points of its own but afrcica has a difrent mindset then us. The racist view toward blacks in the US is nothing compared to Africa. When did south africa officaily grant total freedom to blacks? Forgive me if it sounds like i am ranting or going all angry on you. But what you just did would be a form of stereotyping. Making an assumption and calling it as an fact based soley off of one person. Also i would like to see the link the poem came from. I want to see what other poems were nominated for best poem of 2005.

also here is an essay i wrote on my experiance with racism.
Since i was little i was told reading would set you free. I was always told that my grand fathers had fought so that i could do things like read. So a few years ago i took it upon myself to learn about these peoples and other oppressed people during Black History Month. This is basicly what i have learned.
That the path to equality is not through afirmitive action. It is through individuality. Becouse it is impossible to say that one day people will look at each other not as colors but as brothers and sisters is more of a dream. In the eyes of some people i will always be black. Becouse of this i will start with as my mother says "one mile behind the rest". I living in a mainly white area has always been the one to stand out. Becouse of this i rarely got into trouble as a child. Ive found that i have always been hesitant to be around white adults. Including teachers. I have never been myself arund white people per say. When around white adults the first thing i do is change mind sets. This is what crosses my mind
1-Is this person Racist?
2-What is their oppinion of black people overall (will i have to push harder)
3- Am i acting respectfull ( i meen realy polite and perfect grammer)
4- IS the action i am doing going to bring down my name
5-Are they quick to judge
6-How do they judge (if one does it they all must or people are people not races)
7-am i looked at as an individual to this person
Becouse of this mind set i as a pre-teen (10-14) was very quite not outgoing and so forth. I mainly did sports and just observed. I began noticing my changes in behavior (from speech to the way i walk!) when i am around white people. I meen i would be sweeting in class becouse for me it was always " U Are Repping A RACE" and having that mindset drilled into you is hard to cope with. Untill recently have i been finding myself. Untill recently i have found that i can only achive equality and respect by being an individual not a race. In order for me to "be even" with everyone else i must be able to prove that i am not the stereo typed African American male. By doing this i prove two things. That i am a well educated black youth and that not all black youth are dumb and constantly speak in ebonics. If i met a racist white male and showed that i was smart, resectfull, polite and had good grammer and that changed his oppinion aboute me as a person i already started something. The mind set all black people are the same is ereased from atleast that one person. He will no longer when he see's a ignorant rapper think "goddamn NEGROS" but "god damn Negro". If every minority began doing this we would prove something. That we want to be equal. Equality is not achived by simply asking for afirmitive action but by doing actions. What oppinion is raised of me if i ask for benifits from the GOVERMENT (not privite orginizations) for aid based on race,ethnicity and religion. Black History has always had a specail place in my heart. I don't use it just to read Black History but to read Enlightened Ideas such as Voltiare, Machievelli, Garibaldi (He is my favorite Revolutionary Person)Divinci, Plato and others.

If you have taken the time to read this i thank you. You can now understand me on a level that has taken me 16 years to begin to comprehend ( if this was read correctly). I have now realized what i did till age 16 or 17 was live in fear and creat my own fears. I created my own self. No matter who may have been part of my past i am the cause for everything that happens to me. I created my own non-trusting persona.As of right now i am working on how trust people. Also what i said aboute actions and so forth on affirmitive action, it belive it goes for all races in all situations.