GENIUS FORUMS

Hi all,

I've made a compilation of Chuang Tzu's best teachings: The Teachings of Chuang Tzu

It's stimulating material which always focuses on the root.

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DavidQuinn000 wrote:Hi all,

I've made a compilation of Chuang Tzu's best teachings: The Teachings of Chuang Tzu

It's stimulating material which always focuses on the root.

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If I don't Chuang Tzu, you have to promise to not Chuangt me. Then we can be friends.

I have almost finished these quotes - enjoyed the work.

Thank you for the time and energy to put this together.

Men claim that Mao‑ch'iang and Lady Li were beautiful, but if fish saw them they would dive to the bottom of the stream, if birds saw them they would fly away, and if deer saw them they would break into a run. Of these four, which knows how to fix the standard of beauty for the world?


that made me laugh!


by the way, a typo

Yang Tzu‑chu6 went to see Lao Tan and said,

Ah, thanks.

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Could someone e-mail that to me if possible? I have never been able to open pages from David Quinn's site.

BTW, its methodlessman@gmail.com

I sent it to him.

Thank you, much appreciated.

It may be, oborden, that the DQ page you are linking to is out-of-date. Try here.

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Chuang Tzu wrote:

I call them the "precariously perched" who are like lice on a pig. Lice love to pick out a place where the bristles are long and sparse and call it their spacious mansion, their ample park; or a place in some corner of the hams or hoofs, between the nipples, or down around the haunches, and call it their house of repose, their place of profit. They do not know that one morning the butcher will give a swipe of his arm, spread out the grass, light up the fire, and that they will be roasted to a crisp along with the pig. Their advancement in the world is subject to such limitations as this, and their retirement from it is subject to similar limitations. This is what I call the precariously perched.

Here is a classic example of this, which I saw on a news program recently about depression:

Matt Rogers is a rugby union player who plays for Australia. His father commited suicide a couple of months ago, at age 51, after suffering depression for the past four years. He fell into depression when his wife - his "soul-mate" - died from cancer. Before that he was a healthy man. He was an outgoing chap, an elite sportsman himself in his day, who never suffered depression.

Matt is scared that he has inherited the genetic disposition for depression - a reasonable fear given that his father's brother had also committed suicide in the past. But he believes that he will be fine because of the love he shares with his wife and their three young children. He says that they are the loves of his life, his well-spring and inspiration. They will help him, he believes, stave off any potential slide into depression.

He is what I would call "precariously perched".

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DavidQuinn000 wrote:But he believes that he will be fine because of the love he shares with his wife and their three young children. He says that they are the loves of his life, his well-spring and inspiration. They will help him, he believes, stave off any potential slide into depression.

That really is an act of violence against his wife and his children.

They could not be blamed for leaving him at any time because he is an idiot.

So Matt and others like him should stop nesting in the nipple, or in some other little crevice.

Maybe if we really allowed a worldwide epidemic of divorce, family break-up, isolation, and anti-social uncommunicativeness to occur freely, with all the repressed and violent suffering that would bring, then each human would be like the monk hanging by his teeth from a branch over an abyss.

He'd certainly not want to move a muscle unless he was sure not to create more catastrophe, like a tiny child hanging off a slender sapling about to be swept away by a torrential flood. He'd only let go if he was sure he had to.

I think the instinct of looking after children is a huge problem in our society. We should have laws to allow people to kill unwanted dependents (children). Children by their nature are very time-demanding. They speak of the desire to protect weakness and babyish belonging.


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We should have laws to allow people to kill unwanted dependents (children).

Ah, ,,,Um....am I reading this right? Like a, you mean like, you want the right to kill your childen if you tire of them? Humm...
and i suppose you might want to pop my kids too? Hell why not.

Seriously, is there a typo here, chap?

Get Real

Baby-killing seems repulsive if you think that humans should only die of old age, as if this is by their own choice. Are you concerned because you believe all babies develop into important adults, so it's never worth taking the risk? Why put so much faith in a baby? I don't expect a vague solution to materialise out of future generations. That is a chancey way to behave. I don't think the gas will stop leaking by accident, if I keep waiting. It would be really foolish to believe it will happen, and even put so much faith in this belief, that I light a cigarette in the vicinity. I'd rather take responsibility for a problem now.

Also, death isn't actually immoral.


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DavidQuinn000 wrote:It may be, oborden, that the DQ page you are linking to is out-of-date. Try here.

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I can get to the index page, but I have never been able to connect to http://members.optushome.com.au/

kjones wrote:I think the instinct of looking after children is a huge problem in our society. We should have laws to allow people to kill unwanted dependents (children).

Hell, in the US they are still trying to outlaw abortion.

I'm sure there are those who would outlaw contraception if they could.

The mentality driving it is: anything that lives must be allowed to develop "naturally" and without interference. It's obviously selfish, and quite illogical.

Just by existing, something has destroyed the existence of that which it has replaced.

If intellectual care were truly valued, the killing of babies would be undertaken far more readily, because we'd see how much effort is needed for any single individual to become sane. Our "life-valuing" system now is chaotic and wasteful.

If you see other people as a 'problem', I seriously wonder about the compassion of this type of enlightenment. You still have yet to come to terms with Yourself. Every person I meet has the potential to become a "full human being" as the American Indians say, after all they know they were a 'problem' to European colonizers. They know about oblivion and 'being in the way' of progress.

You are all Buddhas, all you must do is open your eyes

-- Siddharta

Killing our children leaves scars. The damage it does is not just physical but emotional and psychological as well.

Life is not cheap and in anycase that would mean Hitler, Stalin, and Mao are the great wise foresighted ones of the 20th century. Altogether they got rid of somewhere around 160,000,000 'problems'. I know thats just a drop in the bucket as a single tsunami recently got rid of more problems than there combined efforts.

One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is just a statistic.

-- Joseph Stalin

Is this a wise quote from Stalin?


I notice that many are all up for someone else dying, anyone care to volunteer and make the world a better place?
Would it have been wise for your mother to have aborted you?

Sure something has to be done about the growing population but we cannot damage ourselves in the process - we must find another way. I am sure the rational clear thinking ones could come up with a solution rather than compounding the problem through what is beneath us.

The alternative is to pick a side and extinguish the 'untermesh'.

99.9% of all life that has ever existed on earth is already dead. Humans will deal with our population problem, or nature will.

Beingof1 wrote:If you see other people as a 'problem', I seriously wonder about the compassion of this type of enlightenment. You still have yet to come to terms with Yourself. Every person I meet has the potential to become a "full human being" as the American Indians say, after all they know they were a 'problem' to European colonizers. They know about oblivion and 'being in the way' of progress.

Yes, every person has the potential to become fully wise, but the way society is now, it is extremely unlikely that potential is fulfilled.

These fully wise beings are like plants. Currently, there are far too many weeds blocking out the light and stealing space and nourishment. But they can't be yanked out hastily, because the "potential" is so small, it will be torn out as well. The weeds need to be carefully teased out, so all the root growth comes away.

I'm just saying one has to make room for wisdom to grow, in oneself, and then one can pull out the roots properly. Far too much time is wasted on maintaining social ties (and other idle distractions like child-rearing).

You are all Buddhas, all you must do is open your eyes.

Killing our children leaves scars. The damage it does is not just physical but emotional and psychological as well.

Yet compared to Herod' slaughter of all the Hebrew babies when Jesus was born, the death of one man, the wisest man in the land, was far worse!

Life is not cheap and in anycase that would mean Hitler, Stalin, and Mao are the great wise foresighted ones of the 20th century. Altogether they got rid of somewhere around 160,000,000 'problems'. I know thats just a drop in the bucket as a single tsunami recently got rid of more problems than there combined efforts.

I'm not against people per se, but against the kind of character that causes over-population. It is a mindstate of individual irresponsibility.

Overpopulation itself is merely a branch of the problem, it isn't the root of it. The root of the problem is lack of understanding of emptiness.

In the next few centuries, the badly polluted, resource-poor, overcrowded earth will be made of the criminal dregs of society. Any wise people that exist will be dealing directly with this hell realm.
It is possible that our shabby warring future could be averted with enough drastic action taken now. It's highly unlikely, though. Humans don't seem to care enough.

I notice that many are all up for someone else dying, anyone care to volunteer and make the world a better place? Would it have been wise for your mother to have aborted you?

I sometimes wish it, when I struggle to see things in their true light.

But in reality, that death-wish is actually volunteering to abort budding wise individuals from arising.

You don't seem to understand my point, that babies and child-rearing take up far too much time for a single individual. If we can't dispatch these leeches, and give our minds some much needed attention, then at least we can make large nurseries.

I don't really care, actually. It'd be better for people to have some solitary time, don't you think?

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kjones:

Yes, every person has the potential to become fully wise, but the way society is now, it is extremely unlikely that potential is fulfilled.

It would depend on what criteria you use as it most likely is a sliding scale. At any rate its my calling to promote wisdom in myself and of others. So I take responsibility for the lack blame me.

It could be I am lacking as a teacher and a student - do`h

These fully wise beings are like plants.

Except humans screem louder when eaten.

Currently, there are far too many weeds blocking out the light and stealing space and nourishment.

Do you feel crowded and are you hungary?

But they can't be yanked out hastily, because the "potential" is so small, it will be torn out as well. The weeds need to be carefully teased out, so all the root growth comes away.

Very well stated Kelly.

I'm just saying one has to make room for wisdom to grow, in oneself, and then one can pull out the roots properly. Far too much time is wasted on maintaining social ties (and other idle distractions like child-rearing).

At dinner in a houshold with five children and a married couple the mother informed the children, "because of the economy we are going to have to let three of you go".

Then its up to you to take up the slack for the distractions others have in their lives until they understand.
You cannot slap the blind and expect them to see.

Yet compared to Herod' slaughter of all the Hebrew babies when Jesus was born, the death of one man, the wisest man in the land, was far worse!

He may have killed another wise man, good thing one escaped.

Overpopulation itself is merely a branch of the problem, it isn't the root of it. The root of the problem is lack of understanding of emptiness.

Ah - wisdom - tis good to see these words.
Go to the root, the branches only consume time and give the illusion of progress.

In the next few centuries, the badly polluted, resource-poor, overcrowded earth will be made of the criminal dregs of society. Any wise people that exist will be dealing directly with this hell realm.

I only disagree with one premise, "resource-poor".

It is possible that our shabby warring future could be averted with enough drastic action taken now. It's highly unlikely, though. Humans don't seem to care enough.

It depends on how willing you are to master wisdom and on how many self imposed limitations you free yourself from. It is not up to anyone else but you.

kjones, I missed the bottom of your post.

BO: I notice that many are all up for someone else dying, anyone care to volunteer and make the world a better place? Would it have been wise for your mother to have aborted you?

Kelly: I sometimes wish it, when I struggle to see things in their true light.

But in reality, that death-wish is actually volunteering to abort budding wise individuals from arising.

That is your ego craving attention and yes your conclusion is correct. The ego appeals to oblivion to remain, a sense of loss that is just out of reach. - Romeo and Juliet.

You are a budding wise one and this world is a much better place for you being here.

You don't seem to understand my point, that babies and child-rearing take up far too much time for a single individual. If we can't dispatch these leeches, and give our minds some much needed attention, then at least we can make large nurseries.

There it is again - "leeches"?
You have yet to understand who and what you are. You must realize at some point that you have unlimited capacity to surrender to what is without despising yourself. You have limitless capacity to understand, forgive, and reconcile all and everything.

There is no other that can do this - big job I know but you are my hope for the future if ya follow me.

I don't really care, actually. It'd be better for people to have some solitary time, don't you think?

:) - Do you think I think?

Being of 1,

There are firefighters trained to prevent and stop fires, because it takes quite a lot of effort to develop buildings, crops, water piping, electricity and communication cables, and so on. We don't have to sit back and let these things be destroyed.

Nature is developing and destroying. It's really all ultimately one. I value understanding this, so I'd help the firefighters protect those assets which help that understanding arise.

Use the analogy of enlightened "sight" to represent the valuable assets. Thus, firefighting means, "slap the blind person". If that's the only way they'll come to see, then one really has to slap!

It's lucky there are firefighters around to help.

It depends on how willing you are to master wisdom and on how many self imposed limitations you free yourself from. It is not up to anyone else but you.

Ultimately, yes, only an individual can become wise. Can you think of an example of a wise person who never benefitted from being slapped?



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If you talk to the blind, they all want the sense of sight. There is certain internal desires that a person my want, and yet be wholly ignorant of that desire - that is delusion.
It is not true that the ignorant have no notion of the advantages of truth and wisdom, they see and confess the existence of such and its value.

The danger lies in the imposters - keepers of sacred superstition. Their motivation is to keep others in a cycle of perpetual delusion to maintain present status. It drowns out the voice of true wisdom.

Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.

-- Jesus

What is their bastion and ability to control?
The desire of arriving at the end without the effort of thought, contemplation, and will to the appointed means. Mankind desires the intended attainment of truth by easier means. Rather than temperance, will, and burning desire - it is easier to allow someone else to do all the work and ride in on the coatails of a guru or preist.

The blind gladly apply nobility to icons and hold these up as ideals and yet disdain it in personal experience. They substitute the temporal, money, power, and vice as true points of reflection and achievement.

Those in todays society that claim enlightenment or the moral high ground let the blind fondle their sensual indulgences as a charmed snake to keep them powerless.

We must all rise above and not merely possess the higher gift - we must be it - your truest self. Not one of humankind but an eternal being that radiates truth and compassion.
You do not have truth and wisdom - you become truth and wisdom.

You become the answer and the way.

Beingof1 wrote:If you talk to the blind, they all want the sense of sight.

Are you kidding?

There is certain internal desires that a person my want, and yet be wholly ignorant of that desire - that is delusion.
It is not true that the ignorant have no notion of the advantages of truth and wisdom, they see and confess the existence of such and its value.

A deluded person thinks wisdom is advantageous.

The danger lies in the imposters - keepers of sacred superstition. Their motivation is to keep others in a cycle of perpetual delusion to maintain present status. It drowns out the voice of true wisdom.

That voice arises when one sees for oneself, not by looking for sight with the eyes of teachers.

Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit?

You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
-- Jesus

We must all rise above and not merely possess the higher gift - we must be it - your truest self. Not one of humankind but an eternal being that radiates truth and compassion. You do not have truth and wisdom - you become truth and wisdom. You become the answer and the way.

Well, understanding Ultimate Truth just reflects what's always the case. So I don't have to transform anything. It's just removing errors about reality, on the level of abstraction. That leads one to act correctly, instead of from a deluded belief system.


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