GENIUS FORUMS

Told you Weininger had to do with it.

.

(took a day off from work as i'll be riding with the local police department tomorrow night)



daybrown,

-john wayne-
Supporting evidence for your hypothesis comes from the advancing age of the Baby Boomer generation,

-tomas-
Hey, heeeyyy, heeeeeeyyyyy! I'm only in my mid-50s... daybrown precedes the boomers by a couple-few years. But, you'd never know it by lookin' at his avatar-pic :-)




-john wayne-
the wealthiest generation in history,

-tomas-
Thanks to deficit spending, federal student "loans" (really just a wealth transference system - AKA Robin Hood), credit cards, and last but not least... land & building appraisers of city/county/state governments.

The working stiff can only support so many freeloaders.




-john wayne-
and the statistical fact that men die earlier than women.

-tomas-
Environmental afflictions (mother nature) have a cure for everything. Those damn witches and grammas.




-john wayne-
This means that, relatively soon, trillions of dollars of assets are going to be inherited by a generation of middle and upper-class women.

-tomas-
The "dollars" are worth less every week - now is the time to trade those paper-dollars for silver (and other commodities) as there's only some much of that stuff in the ground. Not only that but you better own the land your house sits on and have a ready-source of drinkable water handy. Potable water is where its at... Just don't tell the neighbors either.

Y2K (for those who were -truly- in the know) was about whether the computers would be able to "successfully transfer" all that worthless paper money (invisible debt of central bank printing) over onto the duped public. Thanks to Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, and our wonderful Alan Greenspan... all is well in the life of our illusion.




-john wayne-
These women, we should note, have entered or are entering menopause, the phase in female life when a more sober, wise disposition is acquired free from hormonal cyclings.

-john wane-
Now if they could wean theirselves from all the antidepressant drugs, botox, fake boobs and Jane Fonda reruns (and that wonderful photo of Raquel Welch all those years ago) 1 million BC.




-john wayne-
This creates a generation capable of swinging the battle of history to its liking.

-tomas-
It's gonna have to be at the younger end of the boomers - the older are a bunch of permanently spaced-out ex?-druggies and strung-out drunks.




-john wayne-
Will it suddenly stop on a philosophical dime and oppose the elites,

-tomas- As jezuz said, the poor will always be among us.

As long as there is a Federal Reserve, Income Tax, Social Security Tax, nothing will change. Those triple weights will burden the working class to exhaustion.




-john wayne-
or will it wallow proud in serving and "being" the elite?

-tomas-
Yeah, let's keep the implants, antidepressants, government schools, fluoride in water (keep the herd from spooking), and last but not least - amalgamate the mexican peso and canadian loon with the american dollars to Create in Baal's (horus) Eye, the scarlet woman riding on the Beast's backside. Back in the saddle again. See the scarlet woman on the backside of the Euro coin.

The only quiz left to solve is whether the Euro, oriental Yuan, or Amero will be the next (and lasting) Reserve Currency...

And Pakistan is about ready to lose its southwest part called Balochistan:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/image/harita_b.jpeg

Ditto Sri Lanka peninsula, and just did Burma - China is about ready to take all of SE Asia.

Not that long ago, it was Mexico!

Perhaps all those crossing (from) the southern border know something we don't know nor understand... Heaven (the New Haven) is in the North.

Go West, young man? - not any more.



Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason


.

.

(took a day off from work as i'll be riding with the local police department tomorrow night)



daybrown,

-john wayne-
Supporting evidence for your hypothesis comes from the advancing age of the Baby Boomer generation,

-tomas-
Hey, heeeyyy, heeeeeeyyyyy! I'm only in my mid-50s... daybrown precedes the boomers by a couple-few years. But, you'd never know it by lookin' at his avatar-pic :-)




-john wayne-
the wealthiest generation in history,

-tomas-
Thanks to deficit spending, federal student "loans" (really just a wealth transference system - AKA Robin Hood), credit cards, and last but not least... land & building appraisers of city/county/state governments.

The working stiff can only support so many freeloaders.




-john wayne-
and the statistical fact that men die earlier than women.

-tomas-
Environmental afflictions (mother nature) have a cure for everything. Those damn witches and grammas.




-john wayne-
This means that, relatively soon, trillions of dollars of assets are going to be inherited by a generation of middle and upper-class women.

-tomas-
The "dollars" are worth less every week - now is the time to trade those paper-dollars for silver (and other commodities) as there's only some much of that stuff in the ground. Not only that but you better own the land your house sits on and have a ready-source of drinkable water handy. Potable water is where its at... Just don't tell the neighbors either.

Y2K (for those who were -truly- in the know) was about whether the computers would be able to "successfully transfer" all that worthless paper money (invisible debt of central bank printing) over onto the duped public. Thanks to Bill Clinton, Robert Rubin, and our wonderful Alan Greenspan... all is well in the life of our illusion.




-john wayne-
These women, we should note, have entered or are entering menopause, the phase in female life when a more sober, wise disposition is acquired free from hormonal cyclings.

-john wane-
Now if they could wean theirselves from all the antidepressant drugs, botox, fake boobs and Jane Fonda reruns (and that wonderful photo of Raquel Welch all those years ago) 1 million BC.




-john wayne-
This creates a generation capable of swinging the battle of history to its liking.

-tomas-
It's gonna have to be at the younger end of the boomers - the older are a bunch of permanently spaced-out ex?-druggies and strung-out drunks.




-john wayne-
Will it suddenly stop on a philosophical dime and oppose the elites,

-tomas- As jezuz said, the poor will always be among us.

As long as there is a Federal Reserve, Income Tax, Social Security Tax, nothing will change. Those triple weights will burden the working class to exhaustion.




-john wayne-
or will it wallow proud in serving and "being" the elite?

-tomas-
Yeah, let's keep the implants, antidepressants, government schools, fluoride in water (keep the herd from spooking), and last but not least - amalgamate the mexican peso and canadian loon with the american dollars to Create in Baal's (horus) Eye, the scarlet woman riding on the Beast's backside. Back in the saddle again. See the scarlet woman on the backside of the Euro coin.

The only quiz left to solve is whether the Euro, oriental Yuan, or Amero will be the next (and lasting) Reserve Currency...

And Pakistan is about ready to lose its southwest part called Balochistan:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/images/harita_b.jpeg

Ditto Sri Lanka peninsula, and just did Burma - China is about ready to take all of SE Asia.

Not that long ago, it was Mexico!

Perhaps all those crossing (from) the southern border know something we don't know nor understand... Heaven (the New Haven) is in the North.

Go West, young man? - not any more.



Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason


.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Hahah! A Jew who doesn't even know what the written Law is!!!

Crash course for Victor the secular Jew: the Written Law consists of the books of the Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh.

no, idiot, it consists of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. Go ahead, show me an authoritative usage of Torah explicitly including Neviim or Ktuvim.

Sometimes this is equaled with Torah (often in Orthodox circles) and is also quite common to use for the whole body of teachings. Of course I know that many Jews prefer to call only the five books of Moses the Torah. I'm not denying that but you're denying my not uncommon usage.

Your ignorant usage. The Written Law is generally considered to be the Torah proper (the five books of Moses), possibly with addition of commentaries on it, which is why Mishna and the rest of Talmud are sometimes included as a part of Torah. however, I have never, ever, not once seen neviim or ktuvim considered a part of Torah. The 'law' part refers to Pentateuch specifically, not to Neviim or Ktuvim -- because neither Neviim nor Ktuvim offer, you know, law...

Please feel free to show me authoritative usage of the term 'Torah' which encompasses Neviim and Ktuvim.

how is it failing? Show me indications of israel failing its mission.

This guy sums it up so I don't have to and he's a Canaanite (not that it matters). Although I don't believe in 'packing up' but serious restructuring at least.

Excuse me, are you citing an opinion piece by some lebanese guy as evidence that Israel failed?..

May I offer you a bridge for sale? it has lots of places to hang ropes from, too!

Unidian wrote:Told you Weininger had to do with it.

I should have expected that, I suppose. There had to be a reason why so many 'geniuses' are rabid anti-semites.

The Duke of Khal wrote:daybrown,

Supporting evidence for your hypothesis comes from the advancing age of the Baby Boomer generation, the wealthiest generation in history, and the statistical fact that men die earlier than women. This means that, relatively soon, trillions of dollars of assets are going to be inherited by a generation of middle and upper-class women. These women, we should note, have entered or are entering menopause, the phase in female life when a more sober, wise disposition is acquired free from hormonal cyclings. This creates a generation capable of swinging the battle of history to its liking. Will it suddenly stop on a philosophical dime and oppose the elites, or will it wallow proud in serving and being the elite?

That's a remarkable observation and a damn interesting question. YMMV depending on where you are. Maggie Thatcher showed us how alpha male some women can be, and as you say, become the elite and wield power not that differently from Boudicca, Elizabeth, & Victoria. But in every case here, its a woman at the head of a male power structure.

I've seen a tv interview with an Albanian hill tribe chief. Turns out they commonly use transvestite dykes as chiefs because no man would assassinate a women to seize power, if power will not then be given to a man in the first place.

Then too, 15 months ago, we had a trophy blonde bimbo in the SCOTUS to inherit some part of the *billions* she made for making the last few years of some old lech happy. This lady is by no means near menopause, and there are hundreds of thousands of trophy wives like her that are 20 or more years younger than the old man.

I also find it somewhat iconic that Hef is just the frontman for the Playboy empire that is now run by his daughter. Given the rate that young women are getting advanced degrees, we can expect more of that as well.

How many of these vs the post menopausal widows you refer to is unknown. But whoever, when new management takes over, one of the things they do is assess the books. Whether a government or corporation, is it well run and profitable, or corrupt and loosing control? If the new management is male, it tends to try to shed the unprofitable and conserve the remaining resources for the benefit of his alpha male peers. But if the new head is female, she has no loyalty to them, and will more likely hammer the whole operation flat with fewer levels of management, focusing on lowering the cost of management, and trying to use pc networks of peer to peer relationships to identify and solve problems.

Whether that latter works or not depends on whether there is time to reach consensus. Machiavelli tells us how republics fail while tyranny has a decider to get things done on time and under budget.

What you really care about is your own location, family, friends, career. If there is economic crisis, female leadership will have the moral authority to *force* the welfare queens to have abortions. If there is male leadership, you can expect demagoguery and some means to drive all perceived minorities away as Malosevic did for the Serbs.

Perhaps you recall how the Sarmatians made an offer to Roman General Proculus that he could not refuse. They gave him 100 virgins if he'd take his legions all the way across Anatolia to attack the Persians who had been trying to invade. This offer obviously wasnt made by a king, but by the female leadership that owned the girls. Nobody else would have the moral authority.

The matriarchic Mosou, at least until recent times, had coming out rituals for their girls at 13. When they were made available for sexual services. As you can imagine, the matrons got lots of support from the men of their communities.

The temples of Kali, in India, had a similar policy. You dont have to read very far between the lines to see that the temples to Astarte and Ishtar in ancient times did the same. The spread of STDs put them out of business, so today that issue still remains, so its a question of whether the local health services are still able to manage sex in a safe way.

I have, for quite some time now, been advising men who are concerned about the stability of the economic conditions under which they now live to go to their county health services to get the documentation to prove they are STD free. If a local government is run by women, those services will far more likely to still be available.

If the government you live under is run by men, the focus will be on the use of force to maintain civil order, and an attempt to enforce 'family values'. But since power is still an aphrodisiac, the male management will still have problems avoiding hypocrisy. Sexy bimbos will see the path to power thru their vaginal cavities, and in trying times, will increasingly seek to rely on it.

All in all, there is a global trend twards more diversity in the way power is applied. Those who have skills and talent get to vote with their feet to wherever the system runs the way they want. If the current corruption and lack of foresight leads to financial panic and systemic collapse, then you'll prolly be stuck wherever you are.

If under male management, your chances of rapid advancement or contrarily being dragged out to be shot dramatically increase. Under female management, you'll be blocked from power, but they will only, at worst, ruin you, and more likely be given the chance to muddle thru.

Female leadership will rely more on intuition to judge character and give you your place, which if you are alpha male will prolly not suit you. Male leadership will rely more on race, class, and who your friends or connections are- to decide what to do with you.

Given that the price of oil and petrochemicals will keep going up, young men who are familiar with agriculture, and able to calculate what crops can be grown with minimal costs will be most valuable no matter whether men or women run things. A lot of the elderly men you refer to are now farmers. I've seen reports that they average 61; I saw a piece on the tobacco farmers of the SE, trying to make the shift away from tobacco to organics now average 67.

Whether done with draft animals or machinery, very few women have the instinct to handle it. I was born on a farm and remember the women up at the house balancing the checkbook, doing the taxes, making the shopping lists- they ran the office. But I dont recall they ever tried to tell the men what to do, or needed to be done, in the fields.

If the women you refer to take over, that is not going to change. During WWII, when the call up came, they didnt draft farmers. I dunno if today's elites, be they male or female, gets that.

Victor,

vicdan wrote:I find it interesting that when the local geniuses (such as Dan or Leyla) try to insult, their insults tend to be related to sexual taboos and sexually originated curses.

It's working class Australian idiom. You'll find it in one of the academic resources you use to construct all your posts.

I suspect this has something to do with the pervasive stench of sexual repression here. :D

I suspect you are in some sense retarded. You take yourself so seriously you don't even know when you're being mocked. I should have banned your absurd backside when you started on your trail of abuse. For not doing so I openly apologise to the members of this board. I mistakenly and naively felt you bring something useful - God know what - to discussions. However, you are simply cancerous and ugly, even by my standards, and I can usually tolerate ugly. You now have me re-thinking that tolerance and wondering if it has been foolish all along.

I know retrospective action is morally wrong, but screw it, I've had it: if the word "idiot" (or any other insult) appears in another of your posts you will be immediately banned. I will no longer tolerate members of this board being insulted for no reason other than they disagree with you. And that is sufficient for you to so label them, despite your lame protests to the contrary. If you feel a point or argument is idiotic, that is fair play, but the former I'm just fed up with.

This decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. If you disagree, PM me. Any posts relating to this decision will be deleted.

Dan Rowden wrote:Victor,

vicdan wrote:I find it interesting that when the local geniuses (such as Dan or Leyla) try to insult, their insults tend to be related to sexual taboos and sexually originated curses.

It's working class Australian idiom. You'll find it in one of the academic resources you use to construct all your posts.

Tisk, tisk. Envy, Dan?..

I suspect you are in some sense retarded. You take yourself so seriously you don't even know when you're being mocked.

hahaha. What, poor danny-poo didn't manage to make me upset? What, did you expect me to fly into a rage because you called me a cuntface, idiot?

You are pathetic. At least don't fucking whine so much!

I should have banned your absurd backside when you started on your trail of abuse. For not doing so I openly apologise to the members of this board. I mistakenly and naively felt you bring something useful - God know what - to discussions. However, you are simply cancerous and ugly, even by my standards, and I can usually tolerate ugly. You now have me re-thinking that tolerance and wondering if it has been foolish all along.

Oh aye, you rethinking your tolerance is my fault.

Have the fucking decency to take responsibility for your own decision, kiddo.

I know retrospective action is morally wrong, but screw it, I've had it: if the word "idiot" (or any other insult) appears in another of your posts you will be immediately banned.

Gotcha. :D

I will no longer tolerate members of this board being insulted for no reason other than they disagree with you.

On the other hand, you will tolerate abject stupidity, mind-numbing ignorance, and all-aroung nuttery just fine.

I am glad we cleared that up.

And that is sufficient for you to so label them, despite your lame protests to the contrary. If you feel a point or argument is idiotic, that is fair play, but the former I'm just fed up with.

This decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. If you disagree, PM me. Any posts relating to this decision will be deleted.

hey, d00d, you do what you gotta do, mmm-kay?.. Just don't try to pawn off your shit onto me.

Dan,

I should have banned your absurd backside when you started on your trail of abuse. For not doing so I openly apologise to the members of this board.

No problem, everybody does it at first. He brings a lot of substance, so the tendency is to be lenient to keep him engaged. I put up with it for years at KIR, primarily because I was a favoritist back then and he abused people I didn't like. He was great at beating down any fundies who came in the front door.

I mistakenly and naively felt you bring something useful - God know what - to discussions.

He does - but he also sets an abusive tone that degrades discourse. At first, the substance he brings seems more important. But after a few threads degenerate miserably, the effect of the tone he sets becomes clearer.

However, you are simply cancerous and ugly, even by my standards, and I can usually tolerate ugly. You now have me re-thinking that tolerance and wondering if it has been foolish all along.

Foolish, but understandable. He's not your typical retarded troll who is incapable of mounting a coherent argument. One is hesitant to act against him because it's quite clear he has the capacity to reason. But he does not have a willingness to do so without abusing anyone he sees fit in any way he sees fit, as long as administration will tolerate it.

I know retrospective action is morally wrong, but screw it, I've had it: if the word "idiot" (or any other insult) appears in another of your posts you will be immediately banned. I will no longer tolerate members of this board being insulted for no reason other than they disagree with you. And that is sufficient for you to so label them, despite your lame protests to the contrary. If you feel a point or argument is idiotic, that is fair play, but the former I'm just fed up with.

Might as well ban him now, then. He doesn't care about such ultimatums and will never comply with them. The internet is a big place, full of people to kick around. Another venue is just a few clicks away.

This decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into. If you disagree, PM me. Any posts relating to this decision will be deleted.

If you say it, you'd better enforce it. Don't expect his banning to popular, either.

Well, it doesn't matter. I am hereby taking leave as admin at GF and taking a break from posting for an indefinite period. My attitude towards the place is counterproductive so I'm going to catch up on long overdue ventures, a re-fit of Genius News among them. I will still be available for press interviews and autograph sessions. Speak to my agent.

Last time I did that, he tried to sell me a timeshare.

I just read of your decision elsewhere, and commented on it there. GF will be diminished by your absence. I think I'll follow suit, since I've been wanting a good excuse to get outta here myself. See you around, then. :)

Unidian wrote:Might as well ban him now, then. He doesn't care about such ultimatums and will never comply with them.

Ah, you figured that much out, eh?..

I already didn't comply in my previous post, but I guess Dan either missed it, or was too busy taking leave.

The internet is a big place, full of people to kick around. Another venue is just a few clicks away.

That's not the reason though.

If you say it, you'd better enforce it. Don't expect his banning to popular, either.

Around here, i suspect you are wrong.

I guess everyone will take their own lessons from 'all this'. I'll tell you what I see, though. I see a certain kind of fury, a certain kind of irrational anger arise, when Dan and others could not force Victor to accept, or even entertain, these ridiculous revisionist, and also anti-semitic, ideas about Israel and Jews, who they are, why they are, what they do. In a significant sense it seems to stem around the question of definition, and this of course came up in the first (*laughs*) 'conversations' with Leyla. The idea is that if gentiles can, through sophistry and other trickery, redefine Jewish identity that somehow they will be able to 'force their will' on Jews (and now Israel). I haven't made a study of it, but there is a sort of trend I observe in many internet environments when these issues come up.

This all reminds me of something I consider relevant and important, and it has to do with a role that Jews serve and have served in European intellectual history. An insistance to hold to their beliefs despite consequences, and to resist submitting to the spurious wills of others, especially when those 'others' are under spells of hallucination, misinterpretation of reality, and bad faith.

(In this interpretation, Dan is equivalent to Haman, Victor to Mordecai, and all this heralds a forum-wide Purim where Dan's tri-cornered hat is baked, covered with powdered sugar, and eaten with real relish.)

http://content.answers.com/main/content ... ash_02.jpg

Unidian said,

He brings a lot of substance, so the tendency is to be lenient to keep him engaged.

His ratio of substance to insult seems to be much lower now than it was before. As Dan said before using different words, the argument is the icing on the cake of insults, and not the other way around.

.

I got a chuckle out of your cake/icing analogy there Sher,

But really, who cares if anybody, let alone victor, insults. The concern being given about whether there should be censorship seems just as egotistical as the insults themselves.

Shahrazad wrote:His ratio of substance to insult seems to be much lower now than it was before.

You seem to have started noticing this after you had decided, for a really strange reason, that I insulted your intelligence, Sher. That was also the time when you decided to go on a crusade against me, and made an utter fool of yourself with your passive-aggressive shit. :D

Alex Jacob wrote:I see a certain kind of fury, a certain kind of irrational anger arise, when Dan and others could not force Victor to accept, or even entertain, these ridiculous revisionist, and also anti-semitic, ideas about Israel and Jews, who they are, why they are, what they do. In a significant sense it seems to stem around the question of definition, and this of course came up in the first (*laughs*) 'conversations' with Leyla. The idea is that if gentiles can, through sophistry and other trickery, redefine Jewish identity that somehow they will be able to 'force their will' on Jews (and now Israel). I haven't made a study of it, but there is a sort of trend I observe in many internet environments when these issues come up.

This all reminds me of something I consider relevant and important, and it has to do with a role that Jews serve and have served in European intellectual history. An insistance to hold to their beliefs despite consequences, and to resist submitting to the spurious wills of others, especially when those 'others' are under spells of hallucination, misinterpretation of reality, and bad faith.

More bullshit. Fair dinkum, it’s insanity proper. Spurious wills of others?

What sophistry and other trickery to “redefine” Jewish identity, I ask you? The one that is and has been their obsessive drive for a national home in the ancient homeland dating back millenia? That IS the definition of Jew, in reality and ethnicity, and Israel, Alex. I have seen no other. And I haven’t seen any other aspect of Jewishness raised for discussion here, either. Course, Victor thinks he covers it with “ethnicity,” but then to what “redefinition” and sophistry can one subject such a nebulous idea? It's a vacuum.

Next you’ll be telling me they really are the chosen race, sent to redeem mankind with their superior wills and intellect. Sound familiar?

Keep your twisted knickers on Victor, I will address your last post.

vicdan wrote:Go ahead, show me an authoritative usage of Torah explicitly including Neviim or Ktuvim.

Well, quick search: Wikipedia says the same as I did. Jewishvirtuallibrary.org (most comprehensive online Jewish encyclopedia in the world), says exactly the same. Lets see if I can find something more authoritative than online encyclopedia.

Lets ask Moses: "More generally, the word Torah includes anything that authentically explains or expands the instructions received at Sinai, the Prophets and Scriptures, the Mishna, Talmud, Shulchan Aruch (that’s the Code of Jewish Law), and the thousands of books and commentaries on them all. They all fit under the vast, ever-expanding Torah umbrella."

Or read torah.org for some authorities and insights. Click on it! Learn something that might lift you outside your stuffy cocoon of tightly hold opinions.

Your ignorant usage. The Written Law is generally considered to be the Torah proper (the five books of Moses), possibly with addition of commentaries on it, which is why Mishna and the rest of Talmud are sometimes included as a part of Torah. however, I have never, ever, not once seen neviim or ktuvim considered a part of Torah. The 'law' part refers to Pentateuch specifically, not to Neviim or Ktuvim -- because neither Neviim nor Ktuvim offer, you know, law...

Hahahah, I'm done with this subject. Go have some more education on your own cultural background. You're not even yet in this discussion, Victor. Come back when you've explored it and understand where I'm coming from which is not what you might think.

vicdan wrote:

Unidian wrote:Told you Weininger had to do with it.

I should have expected that, I suppose. There had to be a reason why so many 'geniuses' are rabid anti-semites.

Duh? Weininger was a Jew himself. Another often cited hero on this forum is Nietzsche, who was a rabid anti-antisemite in between his rants against Jews . Freud I consider somewhat a genius in his own right and was a Jew. The list could go on with Great Jews but I'll stop here. Okay, another one: Martin Buber! He was even a smart Zionist.

This whole idea that antisemitism would be an issue on this board is lunacy. It shows the troubled eyes of the beholder if nothing else.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Hahahah, I'm done with this subject. Go have some more education on your own cultural background. You're not even yet in this discussion, Victor. Come back when you've explored it and understand where I'm coming from which is not what you might think.

First of all, i know full well where you are coming from. You are an anti-semite.

That being said, yes, it looks like i was wrong. I had never seen the rest of Tanakh referred to as 'Torah' before.

of course this just goes to show you that being a jew is not a religious thing, as you would have it. i am a jew, yet i had never taken any interest in judaism per se, and whatever I know of it, I learned by osmosis.

Duh? Weininger was a Jew himself.

So? There are plenty of anti-semitic jews out there. most obviously the ones who agree with your view on galut and the illelgitimacy of israel -- they are the religious nuts denying jews the right to political self-determination.

You can similarly imagine a black man before the Civil War who sincerely believes that blacks are better off ins alvery. he might be acting out of good intentions, but he nonetheless a racist. Similarly, you are an anti-semite, as are the people who oppose Israel's existence and who wish to deny jews the right to political self-determination.

This whole idea that antisemitism would be an issue on this board is lunacy. It shows the troubled eyes of the beholder if nothing else.

No, it shows the deluded eye of the anti-semite...

vicdan wrote: That being said, yes, it looks like i was wrong. I had never seen the rest of Tanakh referred to as 'Torah' before.

Good. Thanks.

i know full well where you are coming from. You are an anti-semite.

That's a needless insult which I won't accept from anyone. It makes you look like a total moron. Fine by me. I'll turn the other cheek and perhaps some rabbi one day will explain to you why the meaning flies right over your head right now.

of course this just goes to show you that being a jew is not a religious thing, as you would have it. i am a jew, yet i had never taken any interest in judaism per se, and whatever I know of it, I learned by osmosis.

It didn't stop you from babbling about it assuming an authoritative and inflexible stand. Anyway, I've not been debating that being a Jew is a religious thing (I don't believe that's the case following mainstream definitions) but I was discussing how religiously inspired and guided the nationalism from many Zionists still appears to me, no matter how secular they think they are.

There are plenty of anti-semitic jews out there. most obviously the ones who agree with your view on galut and the illelgitimacy of israel -- they are the religious nuts denying jews the right to political self-determination.

It seems that to you everyone who disagrees how this political self-determination was implemented and is still being implemented today is antisemitic. Such idiocy only fuels any antisemitic reading here thinking that Jews indeed are not truth oriented by their ethnic origin. So I do hold you responsible for fulfilling the antisemitic stereotype. It's not helping and you don't even realize what you're doing. Father, forgive them, for they don't know what they're doing!. Oops, a Genius Jew again.

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:

i know full well where you are coming from. You are an anti-semite.

That's a needless insult which I won't accept from anyone.

Get used to it, because it's true.

It seems that to you everyone who disagrees how this political self-determination was implemented and is still being implemented today is antisemitic. Such idiocy only fuels any antisemitic reading here thinking that Jews indeed are not truth oriented by their ethnic origin. So I do hold you responsible for fulfilling the antisemitic stereotype.

of course you do. That's the very point of anti-semitic stereotypes -- they are the jews' own fault, right?..

If we defend Israel from anti-semitic attacks like yours, we are dishonest. if we don't, we are weak. if we make it to the top, we are evil tribalist money-grubbers. If we don't, we are lowly simpering mice.

We can't win for losing with anti-semites, which is exactly why Israel must exist.

One of the nice things about Stocism is that you dont believe in any of the Levantine scriptures, and therefore dont havta givafuck what happens to the Jews or Israel. Or the anti-semites.

I'm with you there daybrown.

I don't see this need to have a 'people'.It's just not in my experience of the world.Pride in being a member of some particular tribe-it all seems rather ludicrous to me.

vicdan wrote:That's the very point of anti-semitic stereotypes -- they are the jews' own fault, right?..

If we defend Israel from anti-semitic attacks like yours, we are dishonest. if we don't, we are weak. if we make it to the top, we are evil tribalist money-grubbers. If we don't, we are lowly simpering mice.

We can't win for losing with anti-semites, which is exactly why Israel must exist.

Antisemitism as word is already deeply flawed, stemming from a time people had racial ideas like the Ayran versus the Semitic race. Now it has become like the Jews represent the Semites in the world, accusing their fellow Semites the Arabs from being 'antisemitic'. It's a semantic mess.

But your abuse of the word is way more serious, you use it against opponents of the two-state solution for Israel. It's you and your ilk who hijack words and concepts to use it for your own cause without realizing what you're doing and the damage and ridicule you harvest.

Your logic is flawed to. How many of the Jews and fundamentalist Christians in the world believe in the right on a two-states 'final' solution? Enough to cause problems but not enough to represent some kind of 'Jewish' thinking on it, in my view, and any sane view. I already referred to a major influence on my thinking, Martin Buber, one of the greatest and most influential Jews of the last century. He represented openly the idea of a binational solution, where Palestinian Arab inhabitants would be given citizenship and an equal status to the Arab and Jewish citizens of present-day Israel. This runs against currently dominant extremist views in the Zionist as well Muslim camp but it's a good solution nevertheless, perhaps the only sane one if there wouldn't so much poisoned prejudice on all sides.

Now your warped logic would turn Buber into one of the greatest antisemitic dangers of last century. This is a clearly an example how some Jews can be subject to self-hatred and indeed invoke self-fulfilling prophecy; it's their idiocy that becomes hated when it turns into policy and the military and construction companies roll in to do their job.