"A loner"

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:03 pm

sschaula wrote:
I came here looking for more awareness so that I would not be fooled again, and instead I ended up in a ditch.
This is what I saw happen to you, Elizabeth, and it's part of the reason why I started speaking out against the views of the forum.

The introductory message of this forum makes it clear that this is a potentially dangerous place.

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:27 pm

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:I have, and that is why I have relaxed on my world peace endeavors.

What are your motivations for wanting world peace?

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:09 pm

The introductory message of this forum makes it clear that this is a potentially dangerous place.

That's true. I've always credited QRS for being honest and up-front about it. The ideas espoused here can ruin people's lives. Allegedly, they can also improve them, but there's no guarantee that will happen in all or even most cases. People are definitely playing with fire when they come here.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:26 pm

Or when doing philosophy seriously.

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:50 pm

Maybe, maybe not. That depends on their character. People without a conscience will not be bothered by philosophy much.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:17 pm

Elizabeth,

Still seems unlikely to me.

Jason,

The introductory message of this forum makes it clear that this is a potentially dangerous place.

Yep, and I know that serious philosophy can mess with people at first. But it was part of the reason, not the whole reason.

keenobserver · Post by **keenobserver** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:11 pm

sschaula wrote:keenobserver,

Every similarly marginalized person owes him a huge debt of gratitude.
This is where you cross the line.

There's little doubt in my mind that this event has got many more people than are on this forum thinking and rethinking the matters of his concern, their own attitude toward the worlds disadvantaged, and for years to come. The impact will be huge.
Even the stubborn ones are forced to take notice and rethink their lives and societies ways. Every similar event toward the same target and purpose will add to that momentum and keep the matter fresh in the worlds consciousness. Whatever a persons view, there is no doubt recurrent actions of this nature can only help the underdogs of the world - let's face it, nothing else will. That many will appreciate the concern and sacrifice if not necessarily condone the method seems obvious to me. If not to you all i can say is give it some time and see if any lights turn on.

keenobserver · Post by **keenobserver** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:24 pm

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:
sschaula wrote:keenobserver,

Every similarly marginalized person owes him a huge debt of gratitude.
This is where you cross the line.

Agreed. Cho accomplished nothing here - he is just as misunderstood in death as he was in life. His cause, for which he likened himself to Jesus, is completely unheard by any but those who already understood to begin with. The debt of gratitude should go to whoever is able to get people to understand how painfully devastating emotional abuse is - if anyone can actually do that.
----
No one "does that" until someone else first does "this" (extreme measures+self sacrifice).
Even Jesus was unwilling to die remember, but look what happened because of that!
Cho will have his adherents/followers, and the snowball will keep rolling and growing thanks in part to him.

keenobserver · Post by **keenobserver** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:38 pm

I can see no more pressing matter in this world than a change/advancements of the American consciousness. Nature is trying to bring it about, but the situation is so dire extreme measures are needed.
I would say world war III, a nuke war, is inevitable otherwise.
An extremely unwise and thoroughly feminized ultra-powerful society confronted with many enemies willing to die to destroy it, can only mean one thing.

Blair · Post by **Blair** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:07 pm

Cho, Bro, if you had just hung on a little longer, finished your degree and got out of that university environ. You would have had options.

You could have taken that acute perspective you had on the world, how fucked up it is, and turned it into something positive for you. You could have been a genius, Cho.

But you checked out early instead. Kinda weak really.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:53 pm

Cho was an aberration. Simple as that. The complexity of his nature is beyond the scope of this forum (and society, frankly) to analyse because we cannot know his history and the causes of his nature in any complete way. Do you think the media, or his family, or his friends will provide that? Why do any of you think we can discern it?

Cho, in the end, was insane. How much society is responsible for that, in specific ways, is impossible to say. Was he a "victim" who fought back? Maybe; sort of. Was he a victim who fought back insanely? Yes, unequivocally. Did society make him that insane? No; sort of. Society cannot achieve that without some form of latent capacity - it just acts as a catalyst.

Cho is a victim of his ignorance as much as any of his shooting victims. Ignorance prevailed, as usual....

Welcome to another day on planet Earth.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:25 am

keenobserver,

There's little doubt in my mind that this event has got many more people than are on this forum thinking and rethinking the matters of his concern, their own attitude toward the worlds disadvantaged, and for years to come. The impact will be huge.

Yes, I've considered how I treated people, but it wasn't because of Cho's actions at all. It was moreso because of how I'd been treated, and how I was raised/how I'd been influenced.

Everyone gets treated bad by some people. No one is universally liked. For some people, it can wear down on them quite a bit. They can feel very alone, and totally unappreciated as a human.

Then when those people see others, smiling and laughing and joking, it can seem disgusting. "How can those people act that way when the world is so fucked? When people like me are trampled upon and forgotten?"

It has a snowball effect.

The outcome of your actions differs by how you were raised and who has influenced you in your life. If you've been taught to turn lemons into lemonade, then you're not going to go kill a bunch of people. You're going to take the time to seek out other sad people and make them happy. You're going to watch how you treat others, so that you never cause someone to become depressed.

But if you weren't influenced in that good way, and you were influenced to think death is strength and control, then of course this can happen. What this type of person brings is their sadness into the world, instead of being proactive and fixing themselves. This type of person is weak and the most "feminine". A complete coward.

Cho's actions did not influence me to think about how I treated others. Since he treated others so poorly, why should it influence me positively? He should have instead led by example. He shouldn't have sent that package to NBC to have him posing for the families of the victims.

He may have been treated like crap by his fellow classmates, but how he has treated them and their families is much worse than they ever treated him. So fuck Cho and his cause. He deserves to be forgotten.

Even the stubborn ones are forced to take notice and rethink their lives and societies ways.

No. This hasn't made anyone I know think about how they are treating others.

Every similar event toward the same target and purpose will add to that momentum and keep the matter fresh in the worlds consciousness.

I hope the government has flagged you by now, because this doesn't sound good.

Whatever a persons view, there is no doubt recurrent actions of this nature can only help the underdogs of the world - let's face it, nothing else will.

Are you serious? You think more underdogs doing what Cho did will HELP underdogs? As if this is speaking rationally to the people "on top"?

Underdogs should make their own lives better, instead of ruining all lives. They shouldn't kill just to get a little attention. If they do, they deserve all of the suffering inflicted upon them. They deserve to be under-underdogs, if that is the case.

What a selfish cause to take up.

That many will appreciate the concern and sacrifice if not necessarily condone the method seems obvious to me. If not to you all i can say is give it some time and see if any lights turn on.

I urge you to fight for underappreciated people peacefully. Show that you're better than the ones who make you feel like shit, by treating everyone as yourself.

This is the only way that will make any difference.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:46 pm

I'm sorry sschaula, and everyone else, but I feel for Cho. I could write you essays on the subject, but it's too hardcore knowledge for even these forums. there are a few people who deserve to be blown to smitherines, and you would see them and talk to them and you would not have a clue about what shit they have been up to. How people actually plotted to bring me down with a smile on their face. Dumb people. I never wanted to be the IT girl, I wanted to be normal. I wanted to move on and be normal. I was denied that. By people who had nice warm little families and homes to go to. Where is my family? Arabia. Thousands of miles away. Apparently struggling for money inbetween band performaces. Everywhere I go people brand me as smart and then hate me for it. I become the contender the opposition. I begin to fear that I live in a professional zoo full of retired circus animals. The other day in philosophy class the tutor who says he loves Nietzche was telling us about how Nietzsche first believed that we should accept pain and competition on earth. And I was thinking, yeah, so someone can walk up to you and scar your pretty little face with a knife and then what? Nothing, because you accept the world the way it is. When you abandon progress you start to regress.

btw. I was so ill and people still wanted to compete with me. I could not believe it.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:15 am

Don't be sorry. I'd be your friend, Hunted.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:39 am

Thank you sschaula, naturally I would return the friendship, I merely have never seen the point in being mean to people or chasing them away. I was always very chilled out. However, the human realm is not for me. Sadly. I will continue my existence, will try, although today I tried to a) jump from window ( but the lecturer wouldn't let me ), b) throw a fridge onto my head, but decided it was too light-weight c) inhaled lots of gas ( not enough and it had no effect d) tried to hang myself but the gardner and the maid were around all day next to my flat and e) drown myself. What a day! I think it is sort of comical and treat it as such. Had a conversation with a girl today who said I need medication. I need medication. Lots. Had a fight with that philosophy tutor. Mainly because he always greeted me and kept on checking up on my marks but I just wanted to be left alone, he made it clear today that he hates me and that he does not want to know my personal problems, so how dare he walk around being nice to in the first place? All an act. Tried to make me feel like he cared but he did not. and that is the horror of it. Being nice to chase me away in the end. yes, I need to go do my work now.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:43 am

It does sound like you need medication. Please try to treat yourself, before you hurt yourself. I would like to get to know you more.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:17 am

thanks dude, good luck to you, too. Well the good thing is that I have embarassed myself at the university to such an extent that I have nothing left to lose and can actually relax. Oh, and I forgot, there was an F) I tried to slash my wrists. The original plan was slash, then jump from tutor's window to embarass him. But instead we got into the fight and he quickly being like "Ok, I think this isn't about the work it is personal" and tried to chase me away. I ended up shouting "F you!" in a soft tone and storming off. He did not know what to say and just wanted me to go away. I knew the reaction would be as such but wanted the window.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:47 am

You know, an outpatient hospitalization might help you a lot. It helped me. Mostly because someone was checking on my meds and crap every single day and yet I didn't feel trapped since I still got to see my family at night. Just seems if you're that desperate you should do something.

Unidian · Post by **Unidian** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:07 am

I agree. I hope you look into getting help, Hunted.

There is already a severe shortage of intelligent, thoughtful people in this world. We can't afford to lose you. This team needs all the help it can get.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:28 pm

I will get the pills as soon as possible. what tipped me yesterday, what started me going completely nuts was an insidant in class. After class ended, we were walking out and I was talking to this girl. Then the tutor saw us, and saw that I was talking to the girl, but he started asking her a question, and she just ignored my conversation completely, he didn't care either, they just started talking. Ok it is a small thing, but at that moment it was like I was nothing, like the handsome tutor showed me how little I am, he just asks someone a question and they abandon me completely. And he also didn't care that I was talking. I felt like shit. Invisible. And the thing is, EVERYONE LOVES this tutor! I'll admit that I thought about him sometimes, because he always greeted me and spoke to my brother about my marks ( said they were good, but they were average, really, just cutting A's ). I developed a soft spot for him, but I knew he wsa nice to everyone. The thing is I didn't want him to be nice to me in the first place. he is a sad reminder that men and i do not get along so well. I was mad at him for pretending to care.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:31 am

It sounds like you also need someone to talk to - psychologist along with psychiatrist. :)

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:49 pm

I know I have a problem, I just don't know how to make it go away. Concentrate on my work? Probably the best one I can find. The thing is men are always interested and then they run away and it hurts me. I saw that stupid tutor's eyes boggle out when he saw me the first day. I tried to ignore it, but he kept on greeting me whenever he saw me and he always spoke to my brother about me and I guess I didn't want to lose his "admiration". I was lonely and kept on thinking about him. But then later I think he began to think I was a bit of a clown ( people say I am quirky ) and he even saw me once and burst out laughing. I was confused and felt like a loser again.

Katy · Post by **Katy** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:13 pm

Let me give you a list of things I did when I was suicidally depressed (which was really a good chunk of my life):

I think a psychologist could help with that - specifically a female one in your case (in mine, needed to be male because for some reason I deal better with men)
Even if you don't do anything else, it provides a place to rant and get feedback on your rants.

Or get some paper and write - don't write academic stuff, or do that in another journal. I have pages that are just turned black from me scribbling with a pen in my fist, etc.

Or (and this sounds silly and trendy, but I swear by it) start a blog... a place to write random shit - I have a filter set up so that no one I know in person can read it where I rant and rave at random and like... it's out there. Most likely no one will answer, but it's been said.

Or use PMs... I do that with things that either I really need to be private or if I don't feel like explaining certain things and certain people here already understand and know the names and ideas involved :p

Aside from communication, is there anything you like to do? I make userpics. I suck at it. but I do it (when school hasn't taken over my life) because it amuses me.

Get some exercise. I walk to and from school - a mile a day split in half - not enough for cardiovascular and I ought do more... but it does wonders for my mental state.

Can you dress in such a way that the men won't be interested? That's what I do - baggy jeans, crappy t-shirts... but I'm in college, not working so I dunno how your dresscode works. Get some looser blouses that don't have as much cleavage?

It sounds like you have problems with identity and existance being external. If you need to just babble, I promise I'll read it. I can't promise a detailed response, but I'll give you a place to talk.

HUNTEDvsINVIS · Post by **HUNTEDvsINVIS** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:44 pm

Thanks, Katy. I dress pretty badly already, so that's no problem! I am writing pieces of a science fiction novel right now, that gives me some focus. It's a lot of fun. I quite love art as well, I have really cool ideas ( if I may say so myself!! ) but I would need rather a lot of money for the stuff I want to make. It involves a lot of glass and manequins and stuff. I like to make portraits of faces a lot, too. And me and a video camera could go a long way...Maybe I should save up for one! Anyway, as for men...I'm a bit asexual, I mean, I like them but I don't really want to do much with them anyway, plus most are not smart enough for me to like anyway. I guess I try to be too friendly to people in general and then they think I am weird. But who wants to be an ice maiden?! Well, I think that once I get my pills all of this stuff will melt away. I always used to be super happy and loved working and never even cared about appearances or anything.

GENIUS FORUMS

"A loner"

sooner or later