So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do? How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
So you’re enlightened.
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Dan Rowden
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Dan Rowden
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Ryan Rudolph
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Clyde wrote:
I'll let my bro explain it further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQEI4Wt70w
I'm just gonna live it one day at a time ya know...So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do? How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
I'll let my bro explain it further:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQEI4Wt70w
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: So you’re enlightened.
It takes nothing less than enlightenment to really know while any shadier position would leave one clueless and grasping for universal moral rules and laws, some formula to hold on to. Or someone else.clyde wrote:So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do? How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
Re: So you’re enlightened.
Teach. Create works of art. Sign autographs.clyde wrote:So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do?
clyde
Or simply whatever.
Serve the Lord.
Good Citizen Carl
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: So you’re enlightened.
Well, what use is “enlightenment†if it means simply ‘to really know’, and do nothing reasonable through the knowledge acquired? What would ‘really know’ mean? From which absolute (un-shadier) position, would one confirm the concept of ‘enlightenment’? How less of a formula is ‘enlightenment’?Diebert van Rhijn wrote:It takes nothing less than enlightenment to really know while any shadier position would leave one clueless and grasping for universal moral rules and laws, some formula to hold on to. Or someone else.clyde wrote:So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do? How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
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I can clearly see your intentions in asking such a question, with all seriousness.
In my opinion, the word, or the concept itself creates a sense of pride keeping a false ego quite healthy, which that very concept or understanding of it is supposed to destroy… ironically.
That depends entirely on what the concept of ‘enlightenment’ means to an individual. For instance, according to some traditions, there isn’t a doer at all, so the question conveniently becomes meaningless. Others have come to a conclusion of absolute causality, so they cannot and do not actually initiate any action or thought, so they can actually do nothing except what they are helplessly led to, and understanding exactly that, is 'enlightenment'.Clyde: So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do?
Shouldn’t you first be asking what “enlightenment†means to an ‘enlightened’ one?How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
In my opinion, the word, or the concept itself creates a sense of pride keeping a false ego quite healthy, which that very concept or understanding of it is supposed to destroy… ironically.
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Yes, one could discuss who is enlightened and what is enlightenment, but that is not my intent.
Without debating who is enlightened and what is enlightenment, but accepting the “who†and “what†of those who proclaim their enlightenment and their understanding of enlightenment, my inquiry to those who make such proclamations is this: Does your enlightenment effect how you live your life and if so, in what way(s); i.e., how do you relate to and act in the world and do you relate to and act toward others?
To be clear, I am not asking about their internal characteristics or states (e.g. – peaceful, wise, etc.), but if and how their behavior has changed.
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
Without debating who is enlightened and what is enlightenment, but accepting the “who†and “what†of those who proclaim their enlightenment and their understanding of enlightenment, my inquiry to those who make such proclamations is this: Does your enlightenment effect how you live your life and if so, in what way(s); i.e., how do you relate to and act in the world and do you relate to and act toward others?
To be clear, I am not asking about their internal characteristics or states (e.g. – peaceful, wise, etc.), but if and how their behavior has changed.
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
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Dan Rowden
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Clyde wrote:
You may find this discussion from Genius News interesting: Why Does the Sage Value Truth
Your questions misrepresent what enlightenment is, Clyde. Enlightenment is not a state from which one's life manifests in particular ways. Enlightenment is non-attachment, non-grasping, non-identification with false concepts. It is purity of nature, but it doesn't dictate what that nature is or ought be.So you’re enlightened. What are you going to do? How are you going to live that is in conformity with your enlightenment?
No, enlightenment doesn't really effect these things. They are not relevant to it. What a person is and how they live is really set in place on the path to enlightenment. A person will effectively be the same in the moment before it as in the moment after (in terms of their essential character and personality). Enlightenment is not a conditioned state from which characteristics and behaviours and purposes and values arise. It is not a handbook for living.Does your enlightenment effect how you live your life and if so, in what way(s); i.e., how do you relate to and act in the world and do you relate to and act toward others?
There are basic characteristics that any person who attains enlightenment will have developed along the way - clarity and sharpness of mind, rationality, an absence of emotional response to things and events, discernment, a penchant for beer. These are the things that will determine how one lives having attained enlightenment; it is certainly not enlightenment, per se, that does so. I used to be pretty good with metaphor but these days I tend to suck at it, so I'l offer this rather crude one: it's like water -- dark, dirty, syrupy, ugly, stinky marsh water that passes through a series of filters. With each filter it passes through its character changes slightly and so do its physical attitubtes and behaviours. When it passes through the final filter it attains absolute purity - pure, unadulterated H2O. But its essential characteristics don't differ in any meaningful way from those it had passing through the penultimate filter. It's just a matter of that final purification.To be clear, I am not asking about their internal characteristics or states (e.g. – peaceful, wise, etc.), but if and how their behavior has changed.
You may find this discussion from Genius News interesting: Why Does the Sage Value Truth
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Elizabeth Isabelle
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Elizabeth Isabelle
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My friend, with all due respect, perhaps if you had not damaged your brain with indulgences in your penchant for beer, you would still be good with the metaphors.Dan Rowden wrote:I used to be pretty good with metaphor but these days I tend to suck at it,
images of brains: healthy vs after extended exposure to various intoxicants
Dan;
It was not my intent to represent or misrepresent what enlightenment is.
You wrote,
What does enlightenment effect?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
It was not my intent to represent or misrepresent what enlightenment is.
You wrote,
If there is no difference in behavior between an ignorant (unenlightened) human being and an enlightened human being, then one cannot discern between enlightened human beings and ignorant human beings or the actions of an enlightened human being and the actions of an ignorant (unenlightened) human being. And this inability to discern would apply equally to enlightened human beings and ignorant (unenlightened) human beings.No, enlightenment doesn't really effect these things.
What does enlightenment effect?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
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Dan Rowden
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gotta eat
I have only been told about this, if someone has seen it please let me know. I heard there was a series of 10 pictures indicating the buddha's progression thru the stages of enlightment. In the 9th picture, he attains total union with the infinite i.e. Nirvana. In the 10th picture, where is buddha? In the marketplace, presumably looking for something to eat or a change of underwear. We can't live on the mountaintop, gotta come back to the mundane world.
Here's my take on it though: if you can't locate God at the center of your own being, then you won't be able to see it anywhere. Once you find it at the center of your own being, then you can see it everywhere. yes, even at Costco.
Here's my take on it though: if you can't locate God at the center of your own being, then you won't be able to see it anywhere. Once you find it at the center of your own being, then you can see it everywhere. yes, even at Costco.
I think you're referring to The Ten Bulls. See:
http://www.zenandbusiness.com/10%20Bulls.htm
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
http://www.zenandbusiness.com/10%20Bulls.htm
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
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Dan Rowden
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Clyde wrote:
It stops ignorant behaviour. Why does it need to do more than that?
Sure, I know that. I wasn't talking about your intention, only the consequence.Dan; It was not my intent to represent or misrepresent what enlightenment is.
How you derived this problem from what I said is a mystery to me. I clearly stated that a process of the dissipation of ignorance occurs for someone on the path. I clearly stated what characteristics such a person has. What a person does with their enlightenment is a matter for Nature (as was their enlightenment). Enlightenment does NOT afford a particular ethical or purpose paradigm. How could it?If there is no difference in behavior between an ignorant (unenlightened) human being and an enlightened human being, then one cannot discern between enlightened human beings and ignorant human beings or the actions of an enlightened human being and the actions of an ignorant (unenlightened) human being. And this inability to discern would apply equally to enlightened human beings and ignorant(unenlightened) human beings.
What does enlightenment effect?
It stops ignorant behaviour. Why does it need to do more than that?
Dan;
You asked,
Isn’t that the principle of an ethical system?
. . . Stop Ignorant Behaviour!
How do you discern ignorant behaviour?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
You asked,
Your next sentence is,Enlightenment does NOT afford a particular ethical or purpose paradigm. How could it?
Isn’t that a change in behavior?It stops ignorant behaviour.
Isn’t that the principle of an ethical system?
. . . Stop Ignorant Behaviour!
How do you discern ignorant behaviour?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
clyde wrote:Dan;
You asked,Your next sentence is,Enlightenment does NOT afford a particular ethical or purpose paradigm. How could it?Isn’t that a change in behavior?It stops ignorant behaviour.
Isn’t that the principle of an ethical system?
. . . Stop Ignorant Behaviour!
How do you discern ignorant behaviour?
Do no harm <http://donoharm.us/>,
clyde
Well, I guess the question is, is enlightenment a sudden thing, or does it develop over time? In other words, is it a matter of by the time you get there you are already there?
-Katy
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Dan Rowden
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