GENIUS FORUMS

How much further along the path of Truth would I be if it were not for the irrational beliefs instilled in me when I was younger? How much more would I have thought about the infinite, as a child and as a young teenager, if it weren't for my belief in a Christian God? The philosophic life is actually quite natural for the average youngster. Children ask all kinds of questions without fear of being looked at as stupid or ignorant. But when religion teaches that life is only a test for our eventual destinations in either heaven or hell, it seems useless to practice philosophy if we will recieve the answers to all your questions directly from God in the afterlife. We might as well just enjoy ourselves and thank God in the meantime, is the meaning of life for most.

If the human race rejected the idea of a Christian/Islamic God, philosophy and logic would be much more prominent in society. People would give honest thought to discovering the Truth about nature. If not to become enlightened, then at least because this is the only life we have so we ought to make the best use of it. If it weren't for the impotence of mind caused by religion, how many more people would truly become human, rather than being content with the animalistic lives they lead.

Nick wrote:

How much further along the path of Truth would I be if it were not for the irrational beliefs instilled in me when I was younger?

Why look back at your life and ask what if this? what if that? what happened in the past was the truth and it couldnt have happened any other way given your environmental conditions, who you were in relationship with and your emotional/intellectual disposition/level of maturity.

See the truth for what it was, and move on. There was nothing to change, what was is what was. Blaming external forces in the past will get you nowhere, it is an emotional fixation.

Nick wrote:

If it weren't for the impotence of mind caused by religion,

Let us not single mindedly blame religion for humanities stupidity, that would be an oversimplification.

You went beyond the idea/belief of the Christian god because genetically/environmentally you possessed the sufficient intelligence/emotional disposition to do so.

Let us not forget that the “belief” is just a pacifer. If you take it away from humanity they will simply find something else to suck on.

The problem is most humans do not have the emotional strength to question the validity of their conditioned beliefs because it is these very beliefs that give them a sense of meaning, distinction, purpose, increased self-esteem and security.

Humans have a difficult time excepting the fact that there are no ideas to invest meaning in as there are no beliefs that give true security because belief by its very nature creates conflict.

It is not the external systems of belief that are the problem, the real problem are psychologically weak humans that are using these systems of belief to create meaning, purpose, increased self-esteem, false sense of security/comfort/protection and all the rest of it.

The inner psyche is the culprit, not the external.

Nick wrote:How much further along the path of Truth would I be if it were not for the irrational beliefs instilled in me when I was younger? How much more would I have thought about the infinite, as a child and as a young teenager, if it weren't for my belief in a Christian God? The philosophic life is actually quite natural for the average youngster. Children ask all kinds of questions without fear of being looked at as stupid or ignorant. But when religion teaches that life is only a test for our eventual destinations in either heaven or hell, it seems useless to practice philosophy if we will recieve the answers to all your questions directly from God in the afterlife. We might as well just enjoy ourselves and thank God in the meantime, is the meaning of life for most.

If the human race rejected the idea of a Christian/Islamic God, philosophy and logic would be much more prominent in society. People would give honest thought to discovering the Truth about nature. If not to become enlightened, then at least because this is the only life we have so we ought to make the best use of it. If it weren't for the impotence of mind caused by religion, how many more people would truly become human, rather than being content with the animalistic lives they lead.

What about the jewish idea of god? Is it different in some way?

Superb post Cosmic, thank you.

Nick, I know what you mean about the irrationality of religous ferver. That is common amongst all humans no matter the East or the West.

We must go straight to the root not get sidetracked by the limbs of ignorance.

Beingof1 wrote:Superb post Cosmic, thank you.

Nick, I know what you mean about the irrationality of religous ferver. That is common amongst all humans no matter the East or the West.

We must go straight to the root not get sidetracked by the limbs of ignorance.

What is the root? The Primacy of material relations?

Beingof1 wrote:Superb post Cosmic, thank you.

Nick, I know what you mean about the irrationality of religous ferver

Have you seen the fundamentalist zen buddhists on here? It's not just irrational, it's anti-rational.

millipodium:

What is the root? The Primacy of material relations?

That is a big part of the problem.

The root is the pain of resentment buried beneath trauma and judgment of superior/inferior, victim/predator, good/bad.

Forgiveness is the solution as it strips us naked of all points of refernece and allows for a ceasing of resitence of what we experience.

Have you seen the fundamentalist zen buddhists on here? It's not just irrational, it's anti-rational.

It is easier to communicate with folks who acknowledge what is self evident.

Beingof1 wrote:millipodium:

What is the root? The Primacy of material relations?

That is a big part of the problem.

The root is the pain of resentment buried beneath trauma and judgment of superior/inferior, victim/predator, good/bad.

Forgiveness is the solution as it strips us naked of all points of refernece and allows for a ceasing of resitence of what we experience.

Have you seen the fundamentalist zen buddhists on here? It's not just irrational, it's anti-rational.

It is easier to communicate with folks who acknowledge what is self evident.

You're totally right about the resentment. But there is good and bad; we can talk about that later.

I just find the buddhist zealots hard to deal with, because in the end with them, everything boils down to uproveable assertions and rationality is abandoned, just like any other group with religious mental problems.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Why look back at your life and ask what if this? what if that? what happened in the past was the truth and it couldnt have happened any other way given your environmental conditions, who you were in relationship with and your emotional/intellectual disposition/level of maturity.

See the truth for what it was, and move on. There was nothing to change, what was is what was. Blaming external forces in the past will get you nowhere, it is an emotional fixation.

I'm not trying to blame any specific thing for the way I am. I'm just trying to explain how a world without a God is a world much more receptive to wisdom and logic.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Let us not single mindedly blame religion for humanities stupidity, that would be an oversimplification.

You went beyond the idea/belief of the Christian god because genetically/environmentally you possessed the sufficient intelligence/emotional disposition to do so.

Let us not forget that the “belief” is just a pacifer. If you take it away from humanity they will simply find something else to suck on.

No doubt, people would find something else to "suck on". But I am not certain there is any other ideal more efficient at destroying a person's potential for wisdom than a "God".

cosmic_prostitute wrote:The problem is most humans do not have the emotional strength to question the validity of their conditioned beliefs because it is these very beliefs that give them a sense of meaning, distinction, purpose, increased self-esteem and security.

Add to that list the freedom to puruse worldly attachments that boost their egos.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:Humans have a difficult time excepting the fact that there are no ideas to invest meaning in as there are no beliefs that give true security because belief by its very nature creates conflict.

It is not the external systems of belief that are the problem, the real problem are psychologically weak humans that are using these systems of belief to create meaning, purpose, increased self-esteem, false sense of security/comfort/protection and all the rest of it.

The inner psyche is the culprit, not the external.

Indeed, the idea of God was created out of ignorance. Although I see religion and God being increasingly used to defer people from pursuing some of lifes most important questions.

Beingof1 wrote:Superb post Cosmic, thank you.

Nick, I know what you mean about the irrationality of religous ferver. That is common amongst all humans no matter the East or the West.

We must go straight to the root not get sidetracked by the limbs of ignorance.

I realize religion and their false gods isn't the root problem, the ignorance of each and every mind is. Freeing these minds from their ignorance requires methods. I think the issue of God is something that needs to be addressed by the wiser population who know better than to believe in such fairy tales. I think this would open up a whole new way of thinking about the world for many people who otherwise would have become mindless worshipers of religion. The idea of a religious God is a barrier to Truth. I think it's high-time this wall comes down. Although people's ignorance may build other barriers, I don't think there could be a barrier more efficient than the false Gods they worship.

Nick wrote:
Indeed, the idea of God was created out of ignorance. Although I see religion and God being increasingly used to defer people from pursuing some of lifes most important questions.

Actually god was created because behavior, morals, and values all matter in the context of a people's survivability, and because the strength and focus moral codes bring to a society is hard to explain to a child. So while god may not be real, his teachings are valuable.

If surviving is not a priority for you, then religion loses meaning, as they usually evolve in a pro survival psychopolitical environment . The death culture which thrives in elite culture today is quite disturbing and is embraced in various ways by the right and the left.

millipodium wrote:What about the jewish idea of god? Is it different in some way?

Any religious or false God can and should be included.

millipodium wrote:Actually god was created because behavior, morals, and values all matter in the context of a people's survivability, and because the strength and focus moral codes bring to a society is hard to explain to a child. So while god may not be real, his teachings are valuable.

If surviving is not a priority for you, then religion loses meaning, as they usually evolve in a pro survival psychopolitical environment . The death culture which thrives in elite culture today is quite disturbing and is embraced in various ways by the right and the left.

I'm quite convinced the idea of God(s) was created out a fear of the unknown (aka. ignorance). For instance when there was a large storm or earthquake, people would assume God was angry with them. Or when the harvest was successful, God was happy with them. Eventually they gave these God(s) names, and created religious establishments and cults to worship them in hopes that their God(s) bring them good fortune.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:What about the jewish idea of god? Is it different in some way?

Any religious or false God can and should be included.

Are there non religious gods?

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:Actually god was created because behavior, morals, and values all matter in the context of a people's survivability, and because the strength and focus moral codes bring to a society is hard to explain to a child. So while god may not be real, his teachings are valuable.

If surviving is not a priority for you, then religion loses meaning, as they usually evolve in a pro survival psychopolitical environment . The death culture which thrives in elite culture today is quite disturbing and is embraced in various ways by the right and the left.

I'm quite convinced the idea of God(s) was created out a fear of the unknown (aka. ignorance). For instance when there was a large storm or earthquake, people would assume God was angry with them. Or when the harvest was successful, God was happy with them. Eventually they gave these God(s) names, and created religious establishments and cults to worship them in hopes that their God(s) bring them good fortune.

I'm quite convinced that explaining the unknown is only part of god's function. He is also positioned in many instances at the top of a behavioral reinforcement system. This latter role, is, in fact, his more important function.

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:Actually god was created because behavior, morals, and values all matter in the context of a people's survivability, and because the strength and focus moral codes bring to a society is hard to explain to a child. So while god may not be real, his teachings are valuable.

If surviving is not a priority for you, then religion loses meaning, as they usually evolve in a pro survival psychopolitical environment . The death culture which thrives in elite culture today is quite disturbing and is embraced in various ways by the right and the left.

I'm quite convinced the idea of God(s) was created out a fear of the unknown (aka. ignorance). For instance when there was a large storm or earthquake, people would assume God was angry with them. Or when the harvest was successful, God was happy with them. Eventually they gave these God(s) names, and created religious establishments and cults to worship them in hopes that their God(s) bring them good fortune.

I'm quite convinced that explaining the unknown is only part of god's function. He is also positioned in many instances at the top of a behavioral reinforcement system. This latter role, is, in fact, his more important function.

I'm not disagreeing with what you just said, but these weren't the reasons God was created.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:Actually god was created because behavior, morals, and values all matter in the context of a people's survivability, and because the strength and focus moral codes bring to a society is hard to explain to a child. So while god may not be real, his teachings are valuable.

If surviving is not a priority for you, then religion loses meaning, as they usually evolve in a pro survival psychopolitical environment . The death culture which thrives in elite culture today is quite disturbing and is embraced in various ways by the right and the left.

I'm quite convinced the idea of God(s) was created out a fear of the unknown (aka. ignorance). For instance when there was a large storm or earthquake, people would assume God was angry with them. Or when the harvest was successful, God was happy with them. Eventually they gave these God(s) names, and created religious establishments and cults to worship them in hopes that their God(s) bring them good fortune.

I'm quite convinced that explaining the unknown is only part of god's function. He is also positioned in many instances at the top of a behavioral reinforcement system. This latter role, is, in fact, his more important function.

I'm not disagreeing with what you just said, but these weren't the reasons God was created.

Yes. I believe they were. explaining thunder is less important than explaining why I shouldn't kill anyone who pisses me off.

millipodium wrote:Yes. I believe they were. explaining thunder is less important than explaining why I shouldn't kill anyone who pisses me off.

It doesn't matter what you consider is the most important role of religious God(s). It's irrelevant when it comes to why God(s) were created in the first place.

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:Yes. I believe they were. explaining thunder is less important than explaining why I shouldn't kill anyone who pisses me off.

It doesn't matter what you consider is the most important role of religious God(s). It's irrelevant when it comes to why God(s) were created in the first place.

I believe gods were created for behavioral control, not to explain thunder and the like. I fully disagree with you.

Nick wrote:

Freeing these minds from their ignorance requires methods.

I don’t believe any more methods will help anyone, we have thousands of methods which have only made matters worse/more complicated.

Nick wrote:

I think the issue of God is something that needs to be addressed by the wiser population who know better than to believe in such fairy tales. I think this would open up a whole new way of thinking about the world for many people who otherwise would have become mindless worshipers of religion.

I don’t believe anything can be done for the ones who are infinitely lost in delusion/confusion/ignorance.

I’ll give you an example: I have a cousin named Jabbour who has his heart set on saving my soul by convincing me to believe in Jesus, he believes that I don’t have the courage to take the big leap of fairth, how tragic, ironic, sad is that situation? I have given my position to him many times but he sincerely believes that I am the inferior and that I am going to hell if I don’t believe in Jesus by the end of the my life. So he periodically calls me to invite me to bible studies with his friends. He feels that he is working for god/absolute truth and that I am too weak to accept his truth.

Intellectually, we are both on two different planes of existence.

Metaphorically, It would be like a wolf trying to have a rational conversation with the very flea that is hopping around on the side of his left testicle, do you see the absurdity Nick?

Nick wrote:

The idea of a religious God is a barrier to Truth. I think it's high-time this wall comes down.

You do not have the power to bring any walls down.

If I gave you a sledgehammer you would be incapable of bringing the very walls down in your own living chamber, how do you expect to bring the walls of ignorance down in six billion humans? explain that method to me.

we are both powerless to change the masses, you cannot alter the masses of humanity through any group effort/method/action.

The wisest position to take is that nothing can be done for them.

All this about the "stupid masses" is what I'm talking about when I talk about elitism.

Nick, you want to declare religions illegal, or stupid, or what? Outlawed? You're a totalitarian nazi and you scare me.

Remember that it's cheaper to have a moral code than to protect every item individually all the time. The real value of a religion is the kind of society it creates. The anti-god religion nick espouses creates a totalitarian one.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:I don’t believe any more methods will help anyone, we have thousands of methods which have only made matters worse/more complicated.

And some methods make matters "better", especially wise methods.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:I don’t believe anything can be done for the ones who are infinitely lost in delusion/confusion/ignorance.

I’ll give you an example: I have a cousin named Jabbour who has his heart set on saving my soul by convincing me to believe in Jesus, he believes that I don’t have the courage to take the big leap of fairth, how tragic, ironic, sad is that situation? I have given my position to him many times but he sincerely believes that I am the inferior and that I am going to hell if I don’t believe in Jesus by the end of the my life. So he periodically calls me to invite me to bible studies with his friends. He feels that he is working for god/absolute truth and that I am too weak to accept his truth.

Intellectually, we are both on two different planes of existence.

Metaphorically, It would be like a wolf trying to have a rational conversation with the very flea that is hopping around on the side of his left testicle, do you see the absurdity Nick?

No because there are many people who aren't infinitely lost in delusion. There are many people who have yet to hear a few wise words which could change the course of their life. I am an example of that.

cosmic_prostitute wrote:You do not have the power to bring any walls down.

If I gave you a sledgehammer you would be incapable of bringing the very walls down in your own living chamber, how do you expect to bring the walls of ignorance down in six billion humans? explain that method to me.

we are both powerless to change the masses, you cannot alter the masses of humanity through any group effort/method/action.

The wisest position to take is that nothing can be done for them.

All I can ever do is alter the masses because the masses are me. It is no wonder you believe the sage is selfish in the same manner as your average deluded mind with this mode of thinking. Although some may never be saved no matter how much Truth is put to them, there are still many out there who are ripe for the picking, so to speak.

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." - Matthew 5:14

millipodium wrote:All this about the "stupid masses" is what I'm talking about when I talk about elitism.

Nick, you want to declare religions illegal, or stupid, or what? Outlawed? You're a totalitarian nazi and you scare me.

Revealing Truth to my brothers and sisters is my only intention.

millipodium wrote:Remember that it's cheaper to have a moral code than to protect every item individually all the time. The real value of a religion is the kind of society it creates. The anti-god religion nick espouses creates a totalitarian one.

You think the societys that value religion are not evil and haters of Truth? You are just as evil and corrupt as the institution itself.

"Blessed is he who is not offended because of Me." Matthew 11:6

Nick wrote:

millipodium wrote:All this about the "stupid masses" is what I'm talking about when I talk about elitism.

Nick, you want to declare religions illegal, or stupid, or what? Outlawed? You're a totalitarian nazi and you scare me.

Revealing Truth to my brothers and sisters is my only intention.

millipodium wrote:Remember that it's cheaper to have a moral code than to protect every item individually all the time. The real value of a religion is the kind of society it creates. The anti-god religion nick espouses creates a totalitarian one.

You think the societys that value religion are not evil and haters of Truth? You are just as evil and corrupt as the institution itself.

"Blessed is he who is not offended because of Me." Matthew 11:6

So any society that values religion is evil. How simplistic and totalitarian. You should be ashamed.

And again I ask, what do you want? Forced conversion to buddhism? WHy is the phrase "buddhist zealot" becoming more and more real to me based on this site?

How do you propose to bring people the "truth", nick? You sound like a demented crusader.

Nick wrote:

All I can ever do is alter the masses because the masses are me. It is no wonder you believe the sage is selfish in the same manner as your average deluded mind with this mode of thinking. Although some may never be saved no matter how much Truth is put to them, there are still many out there who are ripe for the picking, so to speak

Yes, there is only a very small number of people that can benefit from truthful observations and those people will find their way to wisdom on their own accord, the internet is a great resource, you don’t have to do a thing to help them, they will stumble and blunder their way to the truth, that is how it always happens.

Suffering will be their guide – and also the people they are in relationship to – but not you.

You have the mindset “we have to go out and do something!” but I’m saying “no, we don’t!”

The forum is something significant, what more do you think we should do?

To accept ones limitations is intelligence, However one can do small things like write a free booklet like Wisdom of the infinite, but that type of literature is quite common on the internet now

Lately I havent had the desire to go out into the world and do anything besides take care of the basic survival of the organsim.

This isn’t the movie 'The Matrix' where we have the responsibility to pull “Neos” out of the chaos.

If you were born into a wealthy situation then it would be a different story, you could experiment around a bit, but if you're born into a powerless situation then that is the fact of the matter.