GENIUS FORUMS

divine focus wrote:

Nick Treklis wrote:This is bullshit. There's nothing wrong with taking careful baby steps, but where's the rule that says one can't focus on all aspects of their goal, both the steps and the end?

There is no end. The 'baby step' is the end!

You're only speaking for yourself here.

divine focus wrote:Why speculate about or anticipate what's after that?

If you don't know where you're going what good is a path, a map, or a step? Nothing, if you ask me.

Nick Treklis wrote:Understanding leads to enlightenment, simple as that. Try not to project any preconceived notions on to the term enlightenment and just understand it for what it is.

Agree!!! It's so mundane it might as well be call "endullment"!!!

Mundane compared to what?

Nick Treklis wrote:Mundane compared to what?

Yo Mamma? J/k! :) :)

Mundane compared to what many seem to project onto language like ULTIMATE Reality, TTTruth, God, Enlightenment, or any label that is overly grandiose and religion-influenced.

I'm highly sympathetic to the notion that an important thing deserves an important name, but as I said earlier I think there are probably other ways to be positively influential and that won't present like diamonds and gold yet another thing to be blindly attached to.

To my mind, it's a "just the facts, ma'am" kind of endeavor. Calling it anything more than that ain't gonna help.

skipair wrote:

Nick Treklis wrote:Mundane compared to what?

Yo Mamma? J/k! :) :)

I'm speechless, this is probably one of the best instances of a "you mama" response I've ever heard. =)

skipair wrote:Mundane compared to what many seem to project onto language like ULTIMATE Reality, TTTruth, God, Enlightenment, or any label that is overly grandiose and religion-influenced.

People are always going to project their bias on to the words we use. It's impossible to accommodate all people in this aspect. Better to use words intelligently when it matters, and some times "grandiose" or "religion influenced" terms can help break people out of their normal thought patterns and see things in a way they never have before.

skipair wrote:I'm highly sympathetic to the notion that an important thing deserves an important name, but as I said earlier I think there are probably other ways to be positively influential and that won't present like diamonds and gold yet another thing to be blindly attached to.

What about using a word that one is "blindly attached" to in a manner they have never heard? Using words like god in the place of the totality, or reincarnation in place of causality can put things in perspective and help people understand the teachings that use these words in a deeper and more truthful sense. Why should the religious get a free pass when it comes to hijacking these words to spread their bullshit?

skipair wrote:To my mind, it's a "just the facts, ma'am" kind of endeavor. Calling it anything more than that ain't gonna help.

And the facts is all you'll get from me!

Another thing. What's wrong with getting people a little excited about something? If I know truth, and I want others to know truth, I'm going to use every trick in the bag to get them there. If a little deception is involved; so what? I'm not in the business of making people happy and securing their ego. Yes, truth is destructive and is not known to make people happy, but keep it on the low-low.

I'm reminded of when Hakuin said:

"I am eagerly awaiting the appearance of some dimwit of a monk (or barring that, half such a monk) richly endowed with a natural stock of spiritual power and kindled within by a raging religious fire, who will fling himself unhesitatingly into the midst of this poison and instantly die the Great Death.

Rising from that Death, he will arm himself with a calabash of gigantic size and roam the great earth seeking true and genuine monks. Wherever he encounters one, he will spit in his fists, flex his muscles, fill his calabash with deadly poison and fling a dipperful of it over him, drenching him head to foot, so that he too is forced to surrender his life. Ah! what a magnificent sight to behold!"

Secondly, the truth itself may be mundane or boring, but it can and does provide a freedom that nothing else can provide. Of course not everyone's going to appreciate this kind of freedom, because like you said, it's not going to get you women, money, or status; not in this world. It's definitely an acquired taste.

Nick Treklis wrote:People are always going to project their bias on to the words we use. It's impossible to accommodate all people in this aspect. Better to use words intelligently when it matters, and some times "grandiose" or "religion influenced" terms can help break people out of their normal thought patterns and see things in a way they never have before.

Agree, putting people's minds to the borders of their own definitions is GREAT! And if a particular person has a particular hangup with religious words (etc.), GREAT to play around with their concepts, stretch them out, loosen them up. BAD to use those words, redefined, as a new platform for people to stand on! I don't think the supposed benefits outweight the cost of sending mixed messages, which is something a good teacher can't ever afford. My opinion.

I wouldn't be too worried about providing some one a new platform with the words we use, because if you can successfully rewire some one's brain by altering their state of mind and perspective on things with intelligent articulation, then naturally they should be broken of this habit due to realizing the fleeting nature of words and how they are nothing more than sign posts pointing the way to something much deeper. This is half the battle in getting some one to a point where they are able to base their mind and thoughts in truth. If this can't be done, if the person's mind is too inflexible, it wont matter what you say anyways. They wont even be in the same galaxy as you.

Nick Treklis wrote:

divine focus wrote:Why speculate about or anticipate what's after that?

If you don't know where you're going what good is a path, a map, or a step? Nothing, if you ask me.

Do you need to know? If the step (or stair, as it were) leads you constantly to good things and valuable experiences, you know it will continue. The map is useful to chart progress, and learning to understand the map may itself enspire growth. I have to encourage all of this to be done with a focus of attention on whatever you are engaged in currently. That is, seeking not to chart the future actually but to see your present situation in a broader context.

divine focus wrote:

Nick Treklis wrote:

divine focus wrote:Why speculate about or anticipate what's after that?

If you don't know where you're going what good is a path, a map, or a step? Nothing, if you ask me.

Do you need to know?

Yes!

divine focus wrote:If the step (or stair, as it were) leads you constantly to good things and valuable experiences, you know it will continue.

No you don't. Things can change any time without warning.

divine focus wrote:The map is useful to chart progress, and learning to understand the map may itself enspire growth. I have to encourage all of this to be done with a focus of attention on whatever you are engaged in currently. That is, seeking not to chart the future actually but to see your present situation in a broader context.

Again, you're only speaking for yourself here. If your goal is to experience the surprises of aimless wandering rather than actually getting some where, well, good for you. But I did enough of that in my teens.

It's always strange to see people exploit their own unconsciousness in order to strangle every last drop of happiness out of their life. It's suicidal behavior at it's finest!

Nick Treklis wrote:

divine focus wrote:The map is useful to chart progress, and learning to understand the map may itself enspire growth. I have to encourage all of this to be done with a focus of attention on whatever you are engaged in currently. That is, seeking not to chart the future actually but to see your present situation in a broader context.

Again, you're only speaking for yourself here. If your goal is to experience the surprises of aimless wandering rather than actually getting some where, well, good for you. But I did enough of that in my teens.

If your goal is to know yourself, know that yourself is never-ending. There is no completion somewhere, where you can finally rest. There is only more and more. It's fun.

Dude, we have different goals. Get over it. And either way, you have found an end that's good enough for you, but you're just not seeing it.

The temporary emotional highs of aimless wandering, and learning how to exploit myself to maximize the emotional high, just doesn't cut it for me.

Cool.