Government Run Health Care

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Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Government Run Health Care

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

America is currently debating whether or not government run health care is a good idea. Most Americans are now afraid of the idea, thinking that the government will make our health care even worse than it already is. Many think that Canadians are very displeased with their health care system, and that they come to America specifically for health care. Some don't believe that our system will sustain both a government run health care and privately run health insurance.

Here is a copy of an email that the White House sent:
The White House, Washington


Dear Friend,

This is probably one of the longest emails I’ve ever sent, but it could be the most important.

Across the country we are seeing vigorous debate about health insurance reform. Unfortunately, some of the old tactics we know so well are back — even the viral emails that fly unchecked and under the radar, spreading all sorts of lies and distortions.

As President Obama said at the town hall in New Hampshire, “where we do disagree, let's disagree over things that are real, not these wild misrepresentations that bear no resemblance to anything that's actually been proposed.”

So let’s start a chain email of our own. At the end of my email, you’ll find a lot of information about health insurance reform, distilled into 8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage, 8 common myths about reform and 8 reasons we need health insurance reform now.

Right now, someone you know probably has a question about reform that could be answered by what’s below. So what are you waiting for? Forward this email.

Thanks,
David

David Axelrod
Senior Adviser to the President

P.S. We launched www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck this week to knock down the rumors and lies that are floating around the internet. You can find the information below, and much more, there. For example, we've just added a video of Nancy-Ann DeParle from our Health Reform Office tackling a viral email head on. Check it out:

Health Insurance Reform Reality Check

8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage

1. Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.
2. Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.
3. Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.
4. Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
5. Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.
6. Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.
7. Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.
8. Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.

Learn more and get details: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/health-insura ... otections/

8 common myths about health insurance reform

1. Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it: It’s a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.
2. We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.
3. Reform would encourage "euthanasia": It does not. It’s a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.
4. Vets' health care is safe and sound: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.
5. Reform will benefit small business - not burden it: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.
6. Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform: It’s myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.
7. You can keep your own insurance: It’s myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.
8. No, government will not do anything with your bank account: It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you – and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.

Learn more and get details:
http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck
http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck/faq

8 Reasons We Need Health Insurance Reform Now

1. Coverage Denied to Millions: A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years or dropped from coverage when they became seriously ill. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/den ... index.html
2. Less Care for More Costs: With each passing year, Americans are paying more for health care coverage. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have nearly doubled since 2000, a rate three times faster than wages. In 2008, the average premium for a family plan purchased through an employer was $12,680, nearly the annual earnings of a full-time minimum wage job. Americans pay more than ever for health insurance, but get less coverage. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hid ... index.html
3. Roadblocks to Care for Women: Women’s reproductive health requires more regular contact with health care providers, including yearly pap smears, mammograms, and obstetric care. Women are also more likely to report fair or poor health than men (9.5% versus 9.0%). While rates of chronic conditions such as diabetes and high blood pressure are similar to men, women are twice as likely to suffer from headaches and are more likely to experience joint, back or neck pain. These chronic conditions often require regular and frequent treatment and follow-up care. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/women/index.html
4. Hard Times in the Heartland: Throughout rural America, there are nearly 50 million people who face challenges in accessing health care. The past several decades have consistently shown higher rates of poverty, mortality, uninsurance, and limited access to a primary health care provider in rural areas. With the recent economic downturn, there is potential for an increase in many of the health disparities and access concerns that are already elevated in rural communities. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hardtimes
5. Small Businesses Struggle to Provide Health Coverage: Nearly one-third of the uninsured – 13 million people – are employees of firms with less than 100 workers. From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. Much of this decline stems from small business. The percentage of small businesses offering coverage dropped from 68% to 59%, while large firms held stable at 99%. About a third of such workers in firms with fewer than 50 employees obtain insurance through a spouse. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/helpbottomline
6. The Tragedies are Personal: Half of all personal bankruptcies are at least partly the result of medical expenses. The typical elderly couple may have to save nearly $300,000 to pay for health costs not covered by Medicare alone. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction
7. Diminishing Access to Care: From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. An estimated 87 million people - one in every three Americans under the age of 65 - were uninsured at some point in 2007 and 2008. More than 80% of the uninsured are in working families. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/ina ... index.html
8. The Trends are Troubling: Without reform, health care costs will continue to skyrocket unabated, putting unbearable strain on families, businesses, and state and federal government budgets. Perhaps the most visible sign of the need for health care reform is the 46 million Americans currently without health insurance - projections suggest that this number will rise to about 72 million in 2040 in the absence of reform. Learn more: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/assets/docume ... Report.pdf

Visit WhiteHouse.gov
I'm asking that all Canadians and people of other countries that have government run health care to please post your assessment of your country's health care system here. I'm going to try to direct people to this site to be able to discuss what's really going on with actual people who have experienced their government's health care system.

Please don't derail this thread.
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Ryan Rudolph
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Overall, I believe socialized medicine and privatized medicine both have pros and cons.

Here are the pros of socialized medicine:

1. Easily accessible for all citizens at no direct cost, other than taxation
2. Doctors are not driven by profits as much, so you are more likely get a personal talk with socialized doctors because they do not feel as rushed to make as much money as possible.
3. Insurance companies are not involved so you don't have to worry about not being covered for some procedure because it wasn't stated so in your terms and agreements.
4. Drug companies are not in collusion with the government as much, so there is better regulation with socialized medicine. For instance: there are many drugs legal for doctors to prescribe in the US that are deemed dangerous in Canada.


Cons of socialized medicine:

1. Longer wait times for routine procedures, although wait times are usually not an issue for life threatening procedures.
2. Technology isn't as up to date, and research is slower.
3. not as much capital flowing into the system.
4. Labour shortages. Not enough Nurses.
5. Not as many state of the art cutting edge clinics like the US.

So basically, there is more corruption with a privatized system, but a public system is not funded as well. The end result is that with the US, there are clinics that are better than anywhere in the world, but only the elite rich can afford them, while everyone else is stuck with average health care coverage.

Ideally, a dual-system of public and privatized health care would probably be ideal for Canada and the US because average people could still have access to basic health services at no cost (besides taxation), but rich people could still pay top dollar for cutting edge health care service at elite clinics, which would keep the research and development in the health industry moving at a steady pace.

There is a danger in having no privatized clinics that specialize in certain services because there is a threat to the rate of R&D in the health care industry so I would advocate a dual-health care system for the US, and even Canada could continue to move in that direction.
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guest_of_logic
Posts: 1063
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by guest_of_logic »

We have a dual health care system here in Australia. There's Medicare, the government-funded system which pays for GP visits and non-elective surgery, and then there's private health insurance. You get tax breaks if you take out private health insurance. The system works pretty well. You don't have to pay a cent to visit a GP, for example, or to visit an emergency room, or for routine procedures in hospital. There's a Medicare levy in your taxes, but that doesn't kick in until you're earning a reasonable amount of money, and it's affordable, and you don't pay so much if you have private health insurance.
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Jamesh
Posts: 1526
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:44 pm

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by Jamesh »

We pay taxes so that the government can provide a safer living environment. Health Care is a safety mechanism that thus should also be provided.

In Australia with Medicare we failed to set adequate boundaries up front in relation to placing limitations on the maximum cost per individual of such government funded healthcare. We also failed to limit legal bullshitting by placing limitations on common law awards for injuries when the injury was a result of an individuals misjudgment - no judgement should award lump sums, but only costs and pensions. Workers compensation also tends to get abused and probably needs reform. Private health insurance have also been allowed to provide too many pure marketing related extras in their insurance schemes. The government has allowed the Australian Medical Association and similar organsiations too much control over limiting the number of doctors, particularly specialists, being trained, thus not allowing the supply/demand market to find an equilibirum at a lower price level. Our unis should be training sub-specialists at lower rates to look after the commonly encountered and easily determinable health problems.

The medicare cost issue comes into play with aged folk and others where the odds of say spending a million dollars or so on operations and long term intensive health care are unlikely to result in a sufficiently lengthy period-of-life and quality of life improvement payback. There are too many people in a vegatative state (or close enough to it) in our public medical system. These costs must be covered by separate private insurance, not the public purse. Persons injured "in the line of duty" would have such insurance covered by their employer.

Even though there are the above issues I feel we Australains are much better off with it, than the US system.
Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by Pye »

Thanks for posting the White House piece, Elizabeth. Like when the air is full of pollen and particulates - like when the UV is high - I tend to feel a little sick when too much irrationality is in the atmosphere. And these days in America, there's plenty of it going around.
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Nick
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:39 pm
Location: Detroit, Michigan

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by Nick »

A few thoughts of mine on the current "debate on health care", is that the debate appears to be less and less about health care, and more and more about unsettled cultural remnants from the American Civil War. When I listen to these people railing against any kind of health care reform, rarely do I actually hear anything about health care mentioned. Much of what spews out of their mouth is fueled by racism and an uncompromising hatred of the federal government, the same two components that fueled the Confederate States in the Civil War.

Interesting that 150 years has passed, but the cultural divide in this country remains eerily similar to what started that war.
Pye
Posts: 1065
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:45 pm

Re: Government Run Health Care

Post by Pye »

Nick muses: Interesting that 150 years has passed, but the cultural divide in this country remains eerily similar to what started that war.
Nick, I agree with this general observation. When I hear some frightened conservative, near-to-tears, crying out in some townhall health care meeting that they want their country "back," I hear racism, racism, racism as the hysterical subtext driving it all. These are the stooges of the right-wing, who have been sufficiently lied to by their overlords (with the help of Fox News) for the express purpose of stoking this irrationality and this fear.

Whites in american culture are going to need to buck-up, and soon, for in not too many years future, persons of color, as they say, will be the majority demographic.
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