GENIUS FORUMS

What is the one thing man should value most above all? Some of the things man has valued through out history are justice, equality, fairness, rationality, wealth, power, and love. But can these things that men value hold any significance without ultimate knowledge? After all what is one man’s justice is another man’s injustice. What is rational to one man may be irrational to another. And what is considered love in one man’s eyes is considered evil in another’s. So what is the proper criteria to know what is ultimately right and what is ultimately wrong? Is there even such a possibility that ultimate right and wrong exist? I put it to you that for every question that has ever been imagined by man only one right answer, and an infinite number of false conclusions exist for each one. It is the same concept as the equation 1+1=2. The number two is the only logically valid answer to that equation. One man may say “But to me the answer is three, and it is only one’s perspective that decides what is truly right!” Now any sane man would take note that this man is ignorant and has not properly examined the question, or equation with enough careful reasoning. Maybe he is incapable of sound reason, or his ego will not allow another man’s answer to upset his own. Regardless we now see that the enlightened perspective about the correct answer can only be recognized by another enlightened perspective. In other words, only wisdom recognizes wisdom.

Now getting back to our original question of what should man value most. It seems that many people would rather indulge themselves in stimulating the pleasure centers of their brains as well as gain status in society, rather than learn what is true. Or they lack the character required to break away from the sheepish lifestyle provided by religion. This is all done while one remains ignorant of what is ultimately right and what is ultimately false. The most terrible aspect of this is that his ignorance does not remain confined to his own mind. Ignorance breeds ignorance, which has ramifications beyond our ability to yet know the end result of. Although we only need to look at history to see the carnage and destruction man’s ignorance has caused to get an idea of what these ramifications posses. With that said it is Truth and Truth alone that man should value above all else. Without it he is a lost soul, bound to spread ignorance wherever he roams.

This is why it should be every man’s individual responsibility to uncover the Truth at all costs in order to live properly. Even if one dies never coming to a full understanding of what the Truth is, rest assured this man lived a far more noble life than most ever have. If this man is so fortunate as to uncover the Truth, it will require no extra effort on his part to realize what is ultimately right and what is ultimately wrong. As the saying goes, “The Truth shall set you free!” It is this knowledge of these few wise men that keep the human race from falling into the complete and total darkness of ignorance. These individuals become Gods among men, destroying the illusions that have plagued us since we first gained consciousness. So I ask all who read this, that before you choose which path in life you are to take, consider the path to Truth and wisdom. For only then will enlightenment and the infinite knowledge it offers give you the strength of character to live fearlessly and flawlessly for the rest of your years.

Nick wrote:

What is the one thing man should value most above all?

What man should value most of all is not being controlled by low quality thoughts/desires.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Nick wrote:

What is the one thing man should value most above all?

What man should value most of all is not being controlled by low quality thoughts/desires.

There are many things that man should not value, but the one thing he should value above all else is the Truth. If one values Truth then it should require no extra effort in preventing one's self from valuing something which is false or of "low quality".

Nick wrote:

There are many things that man should not value, but the one thing he should value above all else is the Truth. If one values Truth then it should require no extra effort in preventing one's self from valuing something which is false or of "low quality".

Will valuing a concept of truth solely end undesirable behaviors or is something more needed?

If the concept of Truth one has formulated is the correct concept of Truth then it will lead to more enlightened behavior. Whether this behavior is considered desirable or not depends on what one values. One who values Truth will will find this more enlightened behavior desirable because it has its roots sunk into the Truth. One who is ignorant will most likely have values not in accordance with Truth, and will probably find enlightened behavior to be undesirable.

Although knowing the Truth and valuing it above all else is a huge step in putting an end to a significant amount of ignorant behavior, there is still one more step if one wishes to completely destroy their ignorance and end all undesirable behavior. This step requires a tremendous amount of courage, passion, and faith in reason. This would be to not just value Truth above all, but to value Truth alone.

Ryan Rudolph wrote: Will valuing a concept of truth solely end undesirable behaviors or is something more needed?

No, valuing a concept alone will not. One must also apply the principles derived from Truth. One could argue that to truly value the concept, it would be inherant that the principles of the concept be applied; but because not all people would automatically consider that step to be included, I would consider application to be another step.

Nick wrote:

One who values Truth will will find this more enlightened behavior desirable because it has its roots sunk into the Truth.

Yes, but why does a wise person value truthful facts? What is the psychological reward for someone to value the relationship between facts?

Elizabeth wrote:

I would consider application to be another step.

I have similar question for you. Why does one apply the discerned relationships of facts to their daily life? What does it do for them? What is the psychological motivation?

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Nick wrote:

One who values Truth will will find this more enlightened behavior desirable because it has its roots sunk into the Truth.

Yes, but why does a wise person value truthful facts? What is the psychological reward for someone to value the relationship between facts?

Well we all have our reasons for why we value one thing over another. Essentially we are all caused to value what we do with no inherent choice ever being made. To break my scenario down into a little more detail, the reward I gain is simply the fact that I know I am valuing what is true rather than false. Although for some people knowing what's true isn't always very significant, if at all. It takes strong and truly human characteristics to value Truth above all else. A rare commodity indeed.

Ryan Rudolph wrote: Why does one apply the discerned relationships of facts to their daily life? What does it do for them? What is the psychological motivation?

The Totality is truthful. Living in alignment with Truth is living in alignment with the Totality. Counter-trending is possible to do, but it is painful, both to the individual and to The Totality.

Nick wrote:

the reward I gain is simply the fact that I know I am valuing what is true rather than false.

Suppose I am addicted to some sort of pleasure and eventually I feel that I can no longer tolerate that pleasure because I feel it isn’t a right action. Isn't my suffering that causing me to change? And not a concept of truth?

Is one’s subjective sensitivity a more effective moral meter than valuing a concept?

Moreover it feels good to speak factually because one can be certain and confident in what they assert so again I am motivated by a psychological reward to see things the way they are.

I’m wondering if psychological transformation has more to do with subjective sensitivity rather than placing enormous value on a concept of truth.

Elizabeth wrote:

Counter-trending is possible to do, but it is painful

Indeed, and so we see why most of the population is anxious when they are without their pleasures.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:I’m wondering if psychological transformation has more to do with subjective sensitivity rather than placing enormous value on a concept of truth.

Good point. Insensitive people don't care who they hurt with their lies, but can be reasoned with to illustrate how they are hurting themselves at least some of the time. Psychopaths and sociopaths don't even care, at least to an extensive degree, that they are hurting themselves.

Ryan Rudolph wrote: Elizabeth wrote:

Counter-trending is possible to do, but it is painful

Indeed, and so we see why most of the population is anxious when they are without their pleasures.

I recognize your sarcasm, yet if we look more closely we can see that it is still true.

Ultimate Truth does lead to pleasure. True pleasure and people's perceptions of what lead to pleasure are often malaligned. People also tend to believe that others are experiencing more pleasures than they are, which is both a result of falseness and leads to the pain of countertrending without the actual countertrend.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Suppose I am addicted to some sort of pleasure and eventually I feel that I can no longer tolerate that pleasure because I feel it isn’t a right action. Isn't my suffering that causing me to change? And not a concept of truth?

Well like you said, your suffering arises because something about your actions "doesn't feel right". This stems from comparing your actions with what you would see as more "enlightened actions". These more enlightened actions you have imagined are based, to a certain extent, upon some concept of Truth you have formulated. The trick is making sure your concept of the Truth is accurate, then you will no longer second guess the direction that you should head in.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Is one’s subjective sensitivity a more effective moral meter than valuing a concept?

No because what you percieve to be more enlightened behavior is always based on some higher concept. If that concept does not have its roots firmly planted in the Truth then you will never know for sure whether your supposed ideal behavior has any more moral value than your current behavior.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Moreover it feels good to speak factually because one can be certain and confident in what they assert so again I am motivated by a psychological reward to see things the way they are.

I’m wondering if psychological transformation has more to do with subjective sensitivity rather than placing enormous value on a concept of truth.

Well, everyone attempts to lead a life they think is the most proper way to live because for one reason or another they think it the morally superior. They may become upset with themselves because they aren't living up to what they see as the ideal way of life. But this in no way means that this ideal way of life is grounded in Truth. The more one comes to know Truth the more his behavior will become alligned with it.

Nick wrote:

These more enlightened actions you have imagined are based, to a certain extent, upon some concept of Truth you have formulated.

How does one formulate or imagine enlightened actions? What are they? Suppose I am an alcoholic, do I imagine a future state where I am not an alcoholic before I stop drinking or do I simply stop drinking because it causes unnecessary suffering?

If this is true then the perceiving is the doing.

Are their positive enlighened actions to strive for or are there only negative actions to avoid? If there are only negative actions and behaviors to avoid, then I do not have to imagine or formulate any sort of enlightened actions.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:How does one formulate or imagine enlightened actions?

They are based on one's conception of Truth or what they believe to be the most proper way to live. Whether or not they are actually enlightened actions depends on the accuracy their conception of Truth entails.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Suppose I am an alcoholic, do I imagine a future state where I am not an alcoholic before I stop drinking or do I simply stop drinking because it causes unnecessary suffering?

Well in order to perceive what you are experiencing as suffering then you would necessarily have to imagaine an environment where there is no suffering. Otherwise you wouldn't be perceiving it as suffering. One would just make due with the current state of affairs and never aspire to rectify the situation. Essentially this ability to conceptualize a more ideal world is what makes us human.

Ryan Rudolph wrote:Are their positive enlighened actions to strive for or are there only negative actions to avoid? If there are only negative actions and behaviors to avoid, then I do not have to imagine or formulate any sort of enlightened actions.

To the extent that you are one with the Truth is the extent that your actions will be enlightened. Striving will not be so necessary because your actions will follow suit with your knowledge of Truth. It's a kind of "natural process" that doesn't require any extra effort on the part of the person.

Nick wrote:

Essentially this ability to conceptualize a more ideal world is what makes us human.

Yes, but many different groups have conceptualized a more ideal world and tried to impose that over the society to no avail. Think of the capitalists, the communists, the Christians, the Muslims, the left, the right and etc and so on. This activity only results in fragmentation and chaos.

The only time reform works in when individuals see what is wrong with tiny parts within the economic structure and they stop contributing to the momentum of those tiny parts.

No idealized conceptualization is needed; you only need to see things factually.

For example forty years ago: no one could have conceptualized how significant the Internet would be now, no one really understood the extent to how it would evolve. Ideals do not capture the complexity of what is yet to come.

Cuba is another example: Castro controls the people with a system of concepts of what he believes is a more ideal world, but his concepts are actually preventing any sort of novel discoveries within the country. All of Cuba’s growth has been solely dependent on the crafty innovation of other countries that have less control from leaders with strong ideals.

The best creativity comes when you have no conceptualized ideals, you simply create without any knowledge of what you are supposed to be creating.

For instance: you create something small, and use the essence of that first small unit to derive that next related small unit, it only requires seeing relationships.

Or you take something that has already been created and after you completely understand how and why it functions then you may discover the next step in its evolution by simply perceiving in the moment what it lacks. No conceptualized future ideals are required.

Yes, that was the point of my orginal post.