GENIUS FORUMS

Zarina wrote: When a man and the woman are ready for mutual love, and if they are equal in their physical, emotional, intellectual and moral level of development, they capable to bear not only children but great ideas and events which will live in many centuries.
Such pairs as Napoleon and Josefine, Pericle and Aspasia, Caesar and Cleopatra, some artists and writers :Exupery and his women, Beethoven and his beloveds( even if this love was not mutual), the great idea that appears as a chef-de' ouvre in the art or acts of great man ... is transcendent thing, it was born by powerful energy of united souls of two being.

Not sure about those examples though. Napolean, Pericle and Ceasar had done already quite a bit before meeting any supposed 'soul mate'. Wouldn't it be easier to state that powerful, wise or beautiful men and women attract each other simply because of the pull of the desirable genes? All attraction, chatter and feeling of belonging all in the name of offspring. In case of Napoleon for example the initial bliss quickly was overturned by a lack of heir production and question of her faithfulness [she wasn't] and Josefine was sidelined. Was it all a dream? The peak of his power that like a Titanic had to break on the iceberg?

What I doubt is the relation between this supposed transcendent love affair and the production of great ideas and events by the couple. What I suspect is that it boils down to a feeling of ease and when there are no children, one at least 'fools' the biological programming to hook up. For some people it might be the only way to straighten out their thinking but for many the [feminine] social binding will not be especially conductive to any "great ideas and events".

The whole point is to procreate. A man and a woman would not fall in love if it was not for that purpose.

It's appropriate here to trot out one of my favourite Kierkagaard passages:

As I have said, it is through woman that ideality is born into the world and -- what were man without her! There is many a man who has become a genius through a woman, many a one a hero, many a one a poet, many a one even a saint; but he did not become a genius through the woman he married, for through her he only became a privy councillor; he did not become a hero through the woman he married, for through her he only became a general; he did not become a poet through the woman he married, for through her he only became a father; he did not become a saint through the woman he married, for he did not marry, and would have married but one -- the one whom he did not marry; just as the others became a genius, became a hero, became a poet through the help of the woman they did not marry. If woman's ideality were in itself inspiring, why, then the inspiring woman would be the one to whom a man is united for life. But life tells a different story. It is only by a negative relation to her that man is rendered productive in his ideal endeavors.

Taken from Victor Erimita's speech in The Banquet

-

Zarina wrote:It is no magic, it is a law of universe ( only whilst the mystic law), Weininger have approached as nobody to right relationship: "man-woman","male -female", this is fundamental law for our spiritual growth.
I have discovered many dark spots in my personality due to his deep thoughts,I am his debtor forever).
Only now there are some women which ready to work in such direction, I'm one of them.

If it is not too personal, can you expand on this a bit? Perhaps provide us with an example of one of these dark spots and how Weininger helped you to face it?

-

Please, be more tolerant to new member which look for truth also as you. A sneer is not the best way for constructive conversation.
Kierkagaard passage: Yes, marriage seldom leads men to great actions , usually they sink in shallowness, but this is for people without lofty interests and high purpose in life.
If man or woman have its( and their will is suffisient), they are complete persons and capable to create own life by other laws, they are in more perfect evolutionary grade of development.
Position of Kierkagaard ( Weininger and other) is right only for last 2000years of Christianity.
Weininger , I think, exactly have predicted appearance a new founder of religion which should overcome in himself Christianity (as the Christ has overcome Judaism) and find ways of personal growth accordingly
a new century and a new branch of evolution.
I think that today we need to approach through another way to dogmas of the Gospel, it is not necessarily to substitute other cheek for impact to the egoist and the tyrant;
it is not necessary to refuse riches but only do not roll in luxury,
the comfort (but no more) is necessary condition for development of culture, arts and science.
In regard my too personal view on right relationship "man - woman'", I shall explain a little later. Last years I was communicating more with birch forest and nature then with civilisation's people. I am recently on Internet. I study English myself, independently.
and I hope you'll not try me strictly.

Zarina, judging by the structure of your sentences and word choice, I suspect your native language is either Spanish or Italian. Am I right?

I spoke about dark spots in sense not investigated areas of soul, but I can share my experience: for researching passions that concealled at the bottom of human soul - it is necessary not be afraid to become free in love and hatred, in thirst of glory or money, and after to win these forces and for ever to become their owner, never already they will take you in a captivity.
But who has courage to reject for a while these moral laws? The one who is assured of the final victory and devoted to good up to the end. And such courageous people is a few.
And philosophical concepts will add a little, if there is no such spiritual feat.
And the secret of sexs yet is inaccessible, it can be comprehended only by having destroyed the personality up to the end (and it seems to me, that Weininger has very close approached to it).
But he has not understood this connection completly, the woman as the source of the huge vital energy(that the nature have given her), can transform her falsity and sexuality into a high vision, skill to get into secrets of the nature through love, being identified with a subject of the love like she feels and understands the child (without any concepts).
And these force of vision, free orientation in world of the images( closed for unemotional the man), can help to the man make a right choice in his way, both spiritual, and secular.
And also the woman can be the carrier of the finest images for artists and poets,of course, only the pure woman who has reached a high degree of development.
I am sorry if my thougts are impossible to understand. You may remove its.

Your writing in English is good enough to be understood, so don't worry on that account.

It sounds as though you are rejecting Weininger's views outright, given that he asserted that the growth of spirit is proportional to the growth of masculinity and logic, and that he equated woman - or the feminine mentality - with unconsciousnesss.

Can you expand on what you mean by the "pure woman"? I think you describe her as a developed person of vital energy who loves without concepts. Are you talking about a very child-like consciousness which is open to everything and makes no judgments? Does it involve a winding back of the human ability to think and make assessments? What role do you see logic and understanding playing in spirituality?

-

It seems to me that Zarina is saying that woman has value to the man as a muse. That seems in keeping with Weininger's proposal of the perfect couple.

~ Kevin Solway

All of these things you mention - art, humour, wit, thought, creativity, along with things like arrogance, stability, material wealth, and open physical and psychological domination - are indicators of a degree of consciousness. Women are attracted to these things, because without them their lives would be very drab indeed - quite apart from the more biological reasons that without these qualitites women probably wouldn't be able to continue to survive in this world, or have the material or psychological ability to properly raise children.

In Weininger's Preface he spoke of "woman" versus the gender women, and yet blurred the lines in the end.
Regardless, it would seem a much better life to choose to live alone than to choose a rich, arrogant bully, who would hardly be stable for her- not to mention any children.

David Quinn wrote:Your writing in English is good enough to be understood, so don't worry on that account.

It sounds as though you are rejecting Weininger's views outright, given that he asserted that the growth of spirit is proportional to the growth of masculinity and logic, and that he equated woman - or the feminine mentality - with unconsciousnesss.

Can you expand on what you mean by the "pure woman"? I think you describe her as a developed person of vital energy who loves without concepts. Are you talking about a very child-like consciousness which is open to everything and makes no judgments? Does it involve a winding back of the human ability to think and make assessments? What role do you see logic and understanding playing in spirituality?

-

I do not consider that Weininger is wrong, simply each prophet is limited in his visions by the collective conceptions of his environment and education; and can to operate only those concepts which are accessible to his environment.

And if to go further: when the woman passes an intermediate step masculinity she passes on following step: having"painted" by man's ability to think logically ( of course ,very limited ) and having an opportunity to organize and subordinate her huge emotional energy, she becomes its mistress, this enormous stream of mighty vital forces (before chaotic) now can be used for the high purposes.
She becomes the reasonable and harmless assistant for the man in his mental plans. The man is afraid of women fairly as the modern woman uses the emotional authority only for a captivity of the man, and he avoids love feeling because of danger from a unreasonable being.

The pure woman for me - one which has realised necessity of chastity and fidelity as obligatory things for evolutionary growth, also have cleaned her reason from chaos and developed the intellect inough for analysis a new woman's concepts ( by direct connection with soul of world or "collective unconscious" of Yung)

Also I shall add: ability of the woman to be identified with objects which has appeared owing to capacity to love and suffer, should be more rich by intellectual skill for interpret right the vision of these objects.
The necessary minimum for interpretation is developed for her period masculinity.
But her principal advantage is an ability to have a direct communication with ANIMA MUNDI, with the soul of the nature and human hearts; and if she is ready to love( understand his real value) and respect for the man, her ability become much more richly and more productively as their souls is uniting and their creative opportunities is becoming much more