GENIUS FORUMS

Yes, or some variation of that.

infinitethoughts wrote:

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:

I don't believe in enlightenment. The only thing I believe in is viewing reality without filters.

How do you manage not to believe in enlightenment at the same time as only believing in enlightenment?

You're meaning cause the traditonal definition of it is viewing existance without filters?

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Yes, or some variation of that.

Because I'm appying my belief, viewing reality without filters, on that word itself.

You mean, something like this?

Shuzan held out his short staff and said, "If you call this a short staff, you oppose its reality. If you do not call it a short staff, you ignore the fact. Now what do you wish to call this?"

That's a Zen koan that directly deals with enlightenment.

Also here's a clue on what you are:

Realize that if you stop and watch where you thoughts come and go from, you'll realize its an "empty" void.

Speak for yourself.

I mean....I'm appying my belief, viewing reality without filters, on that word itself.

But that is a hella cool Koan.

brokenhead wrote:

Also here's a clue on what you are:

Realize that if you stop and watch where you thoughts come and go from, you'll realize its an "empty" void.

Speak for yourself.

Did you try it?

I'm appying my belief, viewing reality without filters, on that word itself.

I don't see anything more wrong with the word than any other word. Why single it out?

Trevor Salyzyn wrote: I don't see anything more wrong with the word than any other word. Why single it out?

It's just a koan like the one you posted.

I don't believe in enlightenment. The only thing I believe in is viewing reality without filters.

I don't believe in nirvana. I don't believe in enlightenment. The only thing I believe in is viewing reality without filters.

Trevor is right, You believe in enlightenment then. You are contradicting yourself. viewing reality without filters is enlightenment.

Realize that if you stop and watch where you thoughts come and go from, you'll realize its an "empty" void. This then opens up what you are.

okay, so you stumble upon this empty void, but then you still must survive in the world, and ‘Thought’ must be used to analyze reality as a means to manipulate reality for survival purposes.

What you are saying? Deny the natural tendency of “Thought” to be used to secure basic necessities? The empty void doesn’t put food on the table. Moreover, just because the ground of being is an empty void doesn't mean that one doesn't have to take certain laborious action in order to survive. There seems to be a hole in your reasoning.

According to your reasoning: Because you found the empty void, your inner wealth, you conclude that you have the entitlement not to work for your own survival, therefore making you totally dependent on the labor of others. So you are making the lives of others more difficult so that you can have freedom from labor. How do you respond to that?

Ryan Rudolph wrote:
What you are saying? Deny the natural tendency of “Thought” to be used to secure basic necessities? The empty void doesn’t put food on the table. Moreover, just because the ground of being is an empty void doesn't mean that one doesn't have to take certain laborious action in order to survive. There seems to be a hole in your reasoning.

According to your reasoning: Because you found the empty void, your inner wealth, you conclude that you have the entitlement not to work for your own survival, therefore making you totally dependent on the labor of others. So you are making the lives of others more difficult so that you can have freedom from labor. How do you respond to that?

Well here's more that I have to say about it. I'm not saying you are an infinity and that it's. What I'm saying is thats what your background is. You still think and choose thoughts. You still are who you are.

You're entitled not to work also if you want. There's no rules.

So thru seeing what you really are, which is infinite, your defintion of yourself loosens up. You see you can define yourself how you want.

How you define yourself determines what you experience. Its just basic common sense.

Infinitethoughts,

So thru seeing what you really are, which is infinite, your definition of yourself loosens up. You see you can define yourself how you want.

How you define yourself determines what you experience. Its just basic common sense.

The way I see it is that if one doesn’t work, then one will simply be inactive every day, and that road will has its own set of negative affects. Inactivity tends to lead to bad habits over time. The body naturally gravitates towards the path of least friction and resistance, which tends to strengthen different types of conditioning that are rather undesirable. At least with labor, you are conditioning yourself to a daily habit of exercise, problem solving, and interacting with other people. And although, it isn’t ideal because it takes energy from the mind and body, the alternative is some sort of dependence, and sloth.

Financial dependence to another also creates animosity, meaning the ones who are working to feed you become contemptuous and envious of the leisure that you experience. And your very existence only serves to enhance their overall experience of Samsara. It isn’t really fair to make another even more miserable than they already are so that one can be totally free from the burden of labor.

There are many different alternatives, and each road creates its own series of positive and negative affects. And I only define myself as needing to perform labor in order to survive because this is how it seems to me at this particular point. And perhaps the burden of labor will be drastically reduced as time goes on, but I don’t ever see a point when human beings will be totally free from all labor. Some degree of labor will probably always be necessary. For instance: Managers, technicians, engineers, inventors, scientists, and so on will probably always be necessary, but the hours will be much more respectful of the human body.

Don't get me wrong, labor isn't something I support because I believe it is fun. Labor is ultimately a curse on the species because we are sensual creatures with delicate bodies, and a limited amount of daily energy for the body and mind. Working in the present conditions are not exactly moral, but then again, life isn’t moral, it is fundamentally amoral and indifferent to the suffering of human beings…

infinitethoughts wrote:How do you neutralize the specific inherited belief pattern, or MEME of, Working for a living?

There is no shame in working to comfortably survive, and get things you want. Have you shame?
Work also keep mind sharp and body in shape, depend on job duties of course.
Same other way, no shame if you want reduce your work and others have less, too bad for them, you owe no one nothing. They'll manage.
Also you adapt to new income level.
Someday you say "should have done this long time .......

This help, Infinite One?