genius forum agenda

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
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Imadrongo
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Imadrongo »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:You deny absolute truth through claims that would only work if they themselves were absolutely true. It is ridiculous.
Nothing is absolutely true. The notion does not exist to me. Therefore you are misinterpreting me.
Attacking metaphysics -- the basis of all human knowledge -- is simply arrogance. I have not seen any evidence that you are that good at thinking.
Calling metaphysics the basis of human knowledge is retarded. The natural world, the physical world, is the basis of human knowledge. Metaphysics comes around long after that has been established.
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Imadrongo
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Imadrongo »

Jehu,
What you don’t seem to understand is that the physical sciences have as their foundation, an implicit metaphysical stance or view; that is to say, the belief that at least some kinds of things (material objects) are real, and are possessed of their own constitutive and operative cause (properties).
How could the physical world not be real? You could only picture this by adopting some objective, third person view on humans vs. reality. I say it again that humans don't have any right to access that metaphysical, theoretical, abstract view. To do so (and posit any meaning to them) is to commit an error.
The problem with this view is that is has never been logically demonstrated, and though it is admittedly how the world appears to be, there are numerous logical inconsistence that arise with it.
Logic is just another human tool that developed, ultimately, from the empirical world. You only arrive at these "logical inconsistencies" after trying to take your worldly tool with you beyond the world. If "the beyond" doesn't conform to your earthly tool I'd say that perhaps you tool is flawed.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Neil,
Nothing is absolutely true.
Talking to you is like talking to a fucking two-year-old. I believe by this point everybody but you finds this ironic.
The natural world, the physical world, is the basis of human knowledge. Metaphysics comes around long after that has been established.
I think that what you need, on top of a few courses on logic, is to take a course on metaphysics. This recommendation comes despite my opinion of academic philosophy. I don't even think you know what "metaphysics" means, and even a university course could fix you up with a little bit of understanding.
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Imadrongo
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Imadrongo »

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Talking to you is like talking to a fucking two-year-old. I believe by this point everybody but you finds this ironic.
Funny I feel the same way talking to you.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Dan Rowden »

How are you defining "metaphysical", Neil? You know it's got nothing to do with "beyond the world" concepts, right? That turn of phrase doesn't even mean anything.

The term "metaphysics" has come to be associated vernacularly with the supernatural, the mystic, the occult, and otherworldliness generally. This however, is not how the term should be taken by us, and is not strictly how I employ it. The term metaphysics comes from Aristotle and was the title of his work which came directly after his "Physics" ( meta : after), hence the term has come to be associated with the matters to which that work was dedicated, and which has also subsequently been applied to one of the four categories of classical philosophy. It refers to the totality of what is real, that is, to Truth. The materialism of a rationalist is as much a "metaphysic" as the otherworldliness of a theist.
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Imadrongo
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Imadrongo »

Dan Rowden wrote:How are you defining "metaphysical", Neil? You know it's got nothing to do with "beyond the world" concepts, right? That turn of phrase doesn't even mean anything.

The term "metaphysics" has come to be associated vernacularly with the supernatural, the mystic, the occult, and otherworldliness generally. This however, is not how the term should be taken by us, and is not strictly how I employ it. ... It refers to the totality of what is real, that is, to Truth.
I mean the otherwordly, the "beyond the physical world". And that is exactly where I place concepts like "totality of what is real", "Truth", etc. They are abstract concepts.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Dan Rowden »

Show me a way in which the abstract is disconnected from the empirical world? Or, let's get more specific: does a triangle exist?
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David Quinn
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by David Quinn »

I'm trying to think of a non-abstract concept .......

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Dan Rowden
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Dan Rowden »

Good luck with that :)
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Imadrongo
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Re: genius forum agenda

Post by Imadrongo »

Abstract -- points to some concept that cannot be empirically observed.

I agree that all concepts are abstract in a sense. I'm talking about the line where they turn from concepts that describe the empirical phenomena to concepts such as "Totality" and "causality" that cannot be observed (wholly), only thought of abstractly.
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