GENIUS FORUMS

Woman has no power of her own, only what man gives her. She is nothing more than a fantasy he has created so that his base desires can be fulfilled. Into her he has poured all the worst of him. She is testament to his corrupt soul.

right pure projection

which makes me think that those men who see women as inferior are victims of a negative anima

while those who see her as non threatening and delightful are blessed with a positive anima

simple really

their attitudes toward women have little to do with the woman standing before him but everything to do with the women standing behind him so to speak

my previous statement about younger vs older men is that older men expect a women to put him first and that her other interests are often a hindrance where younger men accept you and your 'trip'

for example mahler asked alma who was a composer in her own right (an exact contemporary of weininger)

"when we are married can my music be our music'

and her mother said 'find yourself another lover you can't live without your music'

i was watching an ingrid bergman movie 'intermezzo' from 1939 in which the female is a young talented pianist studying for a scholarship of great prestige falls for a married famous violinist and joins him on tour as his accompanist

when she is awarded the scholarship she no longer wants it as HE is all to her

would that fly today

no way

so women have changed

would i turn down a rhodes scholarship for a man

never

sue hindmarsh as was quote above

she is testament to his corrupt soul

oh i see

women have no soul or just a teeny tiny partial one

men do but it is corrupt

and it is women that do the corrupting [/tongue firmly in cheek]

so where is the pure soul

i want pure soul *throws tantrum*

solution woman serves man by not cooperating in fulfilling his base desires

not having sex not having his children and not making him the center of her life

and in the process her own vestigial soul can develop and *whispers* maybe can attain a pure soul

i like it

i love it

*why are those men throwing stones at me*

sue hindmarsh

You may find a couple of men on this forum who have faced the truth about their attachment to woman – but because woman is such a strong and deep attachment, most men prefer to close their minds and never think about their true relationship with her.

Weininger, Solway and Quinn are rare men indeed stating the truth about woman – by doing so they show her the respect that she deserves.

what they all seem to be saying is 'you are always on my mind'

from wiki

Isolated parts of Weininger's writings were used by Nazi propaganda, despite the fact that Weininger actively argued against the ideas of race that came to be identified with the Nazis. Adolf Hitler is reported to have said something to the effect of "There was only one decent Jew, and he killed himself."[3] Nevertheless, Weininger's books were denounced by the Nazis, most probably because Weininger encouraged women to think for themselves, and to determine their own future, which went directly against the Nazi idea of the role of women in society.

"most probably because Weininger encouraged women to think for themselves"

oh is that the essence

of course

at 19 my one and only long term bf said to me in a huff 'well i guess you have a mind of my own'

that was the first time in my life i realized that some people did not have minds of their own

weininger's theory in general developing all women's lacks and certain exact points i disagree with but this simple statement

i totally agree with

i have done so all my life (not absolutely of course i have been influenced by much of what society told me i freely admit but once i see through it it is gone)

and at times the resentment generate by doing so was costly in more ways than one

rear naked choke

Which would put most other people at around the mental age of... 2 or 3?

Back in high school I would explain my crabbiness by saying I was really a 75 year old man inside.

my mental age fluctuates

on carefree days i can be twelve if circustances warrant i can also be sandra day o'conner

mookestink

I deleted a post, in case anyone thought of responding. I care about truth, but I don't need the possibility of blackmail. :D

Suffice to say, sky, I'm under 30, and I view women as inferior, philosophically, to men. They're also terrible at first-person shooters.

blackmail how intriquing

let's have lunch and you can explain why you said this

and i can try to see if i can one on one adapt your attitude to 'most' women

(i had to google first person shooter)

sky,

blackmail how intriquing

let's have lunch and you can explain why you said this

How about I just explain myself here? I described a prominent woman in my life honestly, but very unflatteringly. I reread my post and realized that I said enough about her that anyone with Google and a grudge could figure out exactly who I was referring to in less than 2 minutes.

I may believe women to be philosophically inferior, but I'm also not a completely unattached enlightened sage. I do have my own weaknesses: there are a few attachments that I'd rather not sabotage; there are things I will not commit to print.

and i can try to see if i can one on one adapt your attitude to 'most' women

Careful, now. I've adapted the attitude of my university-educated, otherwise intelligent girlfriend, until she became so misogynistic that she found it necessary to prove to herself that women are capable of remembering things.

I think you can draw your own conclusions from that, or at the very least write your own punchline.

(i had to google first person shooter)

I was raised on first person shooters, not television. I would insist that these games are so mindless that you are completely free to think about other things while playing them, except I don't believe that. You haven't experienced life until you have heard me drone on for two hours about the subtleties of physics in any particular game; exactly how a game avatar in the original Quake can slow his descent while falling by pressing firmly into the inside of an octagonal, nonagonal, or decagonal wall's obtuse angle, use the explosion of a rocket to reach high places, cheat friction to jump endlessly at high-velocity around a map, or steal the vertical acceleration that comes from climbing stairs to triple the height of a well-timed jump.

I assure you, life will seem a lot more vivid after you realize that there are people who actually think about these things.

ksolway

Genius does not belong to any age.

true but the information or the context in which it is applied can change can be outdated

a woman today can look as feminine as a vs secret model and yet be an astrophysicist so how would weininger have factored that

she can at the same time be a wife and mother surely you are not going to tell me that a space shuttle captain is so because she is 'all willingness to fashion'

Define what you mean by "objective truth".

hmm i think what i meant is that both what mentally 23 is as far as mind and how you settled on that age are both indeterminate

will you be 24 next year or 22 or 23 or x

Let's say that you live in a world full of morons, and only you know that 1 + 1 = 2. No-one else can verify it.

i know i am not a sage as my mind is way too 'monkey mind' amongst other things but i do have some wisdom and this i can relate to as often though i know i am intelligent even very intelligent things can be so obvious to me that i really wonder how people can't see it or how big the gap in comprehension is

ex in 2000 i already knew that music on the net was the future but my music business professor disagreed

i was waiting for the legislation that provided royalties for music on the net i knew that was the necessary and sufficient condition

no one told me it was in none of my books but i could see it clearly for myself

obviously i was right

This is how it is with enlightenment and Truth. The sage can see it, but no-one else can. The truth he sees is a supremely simple, undeniable truth, yet no-one else has a stomach for it.

we touched on this before and i see what you mean once you have experience it is very simple in fact the simplicity is the proof

in those fields i know something about like music and dance i can recognize whether someone has attained the higher levels because i have been exposed to the highest levels and my own abilities are if not the highest are high enough to perceive the highest

in those fields i do have discrmination

i am waiting to hear paris hilton 'sing' a capella i know she can't sing

i used to study ballet in nyc frequented the nyc ballet almost every evening

i went to see miami city ballet once i never went again and they are really pretty good but they are not great

sky wrote:i will be back to discuss your last post but you still did not give any reason for why you feel you are mentally about 23

i really do want to know

I recall you asked for something like "empirical proof", so I passed over it.

Firstly, I most enjoy talking to people of about that age. Secondly, I most enjoy watching tv shows that are designed for people in their twenties. Thirdly, I think in much the same manner now as I did when I was 23 - with the same kind of idealism and lack of compromise. I am still disgusted by lies of any kind, belief, and any loss of personal freedom.

a woman today can look as feminine as a vs secret model and yet be an astrophysicist so how would weininger have factored that

Being an astrophysicist, a scientist, or a chess player, doesn't make a woman masculine. All these tasks can be performed perfectly well without developing masculine traits.

Females are currently outperforming males in schools and Universitites, but that doesn't mean that women are becoming more rational. Rationality is deeper than all that - deeper than mathematics and science.

you are not going to tell me that a space shuttle captain is so because she is 'all willingness to fashion'

This is certainly possible. The woman may be fullfilling expectations that she feels people have of her - feminists for example.

sky wrote:a woman today can look as feminine as a vs secret model and yet be an astrophysicist so how would weininger have factored that

I thought you'd already read Kevin's "sampler", sky?

(the one at http://www.theabsolute.net/ottow/weinger.html)

This is near the beginning:

. . . A woman's demand for emancipation and her qualification for it are in direct proportion to the amount of maleness in her. The idea of emancipation, however, is many-sided, and its indefiniteness is increased by its association with many practical customs which have nothing to do with the theory of emancipation. By the term emancipation of a woman, I imply neither her mastery at home nor her subjection of her husband. I have not in mind the courage which enables her to go freely by night or by day unaccompanied in public places, or the disregard of social rules which prohibit bachelor women from receiving visits from men, or discussing or listening to discussions of sexual matters. I exclude from my view the desire for economic independence, the becoming fit for positions in technical schools, universities and conservatories or teachers' institutes. And there may be many other similar movements associated with the word emancipation which I do not intend to deal with. Emancipation, as I mean to discuss it, is not the wish for an outward equality with man, but what is of real importance in the woman question, the deep-seated craving to acquire man's character, to attain his mental and moral freedom, to reach his real interests and his creative power. I maintain that the real female element has neither the desire nor the capacity for emancipation in this sense. All those who are striving for this real emancipation, all women who are truly famous and are of conspicuous mental ability, to the first glance of an expert reveal some of the anatomical characters of the male, some external bodily resemblance to a man. Those so- called "women" who have been held up to admiration in the past and present, by the advocates of woman's rights, as examples of what women can do, have almost invariably been what I have described as sexually intermediate forms. . . .

So he is saying that a masculine thinker who happens to be female, is in fact more a man than a woman, and actually looks more like a man than a woman, too.

Make-up, coy flirting (whether with males or females), wearing skirts and flimsy clothing, pretending not to be engaging in courtship, and treating people as pets, are uncharacteristic of her.

kelly jones

So he is saying that a masculine thinker who happens to be female, is in fact more a man than a woman, and actually looks more like a man than a woman, too.

Make-up, coy flirting (whether with males or females), wearing skirts and flimsy clothing, pretending not to be engaging in courtship, and treating people as pets, are uncharacteristic of her.

agreed to the make up flimsy fluffy dress flirting

coyness (i despise coyness)

but you do not need to 'look like a man'

you can be genetically extremely female even beautiful

you don't need to deface yourself nor be unhealthily unhygienic

it is the accoutrements of allure that need to be eschewed

sky wrote:but you do not need to 'look like a man'

Human evolution created the distinction between thinkers and parasites: the former tend to focus on abstract problem-solving, paying little attention to cosmetics; the latter don't have the intellectual wherewithal to sustain themselves, so try to make themselves as attractive and indispensible as possible. And for whom is love and happiness most important.....?

There are no innocent, sensuous, otherworldly beauties who are also geniuses. I think Oscar Wilde's theory, that conscience and character shows itself in one's physiology, as depicted in "Dorian Gray", is quite accurate.

you can be genetically extremely female even beautiful

It would be interesting to see a new Genius Forum profile page, including brief biography and photos. This could knock this old popular myth on the head quite quickly - for who can see it. I'll even put the pages together, as I'd personally like to see these people make up and/or update their bio and find some photos: Sue Hindmarsh, Tharan, Matt Gregory, David Hodges, Dan Rowden, Kevin Solway, David Quinn, Marsha Faizi, Leyla Shen, Bryan McGilly, beingof1, Nick, shardrol, and a few others who I can't recall at present.

Believers in the myth don't see a correlation between spiritual character and warfare physiology: the privates are strong, healthy breeders (the nurses are lovely); the officers are gallant, intelligent, attractive leaders; the generals are austere, dogmatic, and hard-nosed; the nation's leader is downright ugly, pugnacious and pushy. This is in a militant state, not in a whingey pseudo-persecution state like we have these days.

Genius demands intellectual and psychological stamina, not grace, deferring to lies, and dancing skills. It ages you rapidly, because its demand for egolessness is in direct conflict with the human instinct to live happily. Also, psychosomatic illnesses, due to stress, increase the ordinary wear and tear on the body.

Geniuses are ugly mugs. Not at all sexually attractive.

you don't need to deface yourself nor be unhealthily unhygienic

That's right. So tell me again why women wear make up, dye their hair, colour their nails, spray themselves with poisonous fumes, pluck and tear out their hair, exhaust themselves trying to lose fat, stick holes into their ears and noses and other bits, wear painful shoes, squeeze their bodies into tight clothes and underwear, and spray urine all over public toilet seats - and rarely wash their hands after doing so?

it is the accoutrements of allure that need to be eschewed

The allure comes from the mind, but what woman has the strength, consciousness, memory, rationality, confidence, transvaluativity, and solitude to resist her own biologically-engrained thoughts to be an alluring parasite - and go on living in this resistance ?

.

Here's an interesting question (thanks to sky):

Was Weininger an alluring, feminine parasite because he was well-groomed and "elegant"?

.

What the hell, I'll answer the question.


Was Weininger an alluring parasite?

He was very well-educated, probably courteous, wealthy, well-groomed, and fastidious about hygiene. What appears as elegance is probably fastidiousness about intellectual health. If he was alluring, it would be to a person whose ideals were intellectual in nature, and yet still so feminine as to need a masculine thinker to clarify their thoughts.

My thoughts are that Weininger was not enlightened, and didn't develop the strength to ride out his despair over his criminality. If he had lived to 70 years or so, who knows but he may have turned out a bit like cock-a-leg Diogenes.

Incidentally, he wasn't a one-dimensional beauty, like an image frozen in a photo. Weininger was well-aware of how his physiology changed in relation to his psychological state, and used a mirror to observe this. There's some reference to the dramatic physiological changes of men with deep character, as they age. It's in the second part of Sex and Character. As I recall, it confirmed his theory that the biological organism is created by intellect and character; the genius being the most whole, conscious and developed organism.

-

Kelly,

I agree with your idea about adding a section for member bios and photos. I've developed a curiosity about the more personal aspects of members since I've become a regular contributor. I also like being able to put a face on the people I communicate with. It might also help increase receptivness between members. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

kelly jones

Human evolution created the distinction between thinkers and parasites: the former tend to focus on abstract problem-solving, paying little attention to cosmetics; the latter don't have the intellectual wherewithal to sustain themselves, so try to make themselves as attractive and indispensible as possible. And for whom is love and happiness most important.....?

There are no innocent, sensuous, otherworldly beauties who are also geniuses. I think Oscar Wilde's theory, that conscience and character shows itself in one's physiology, as depicted in "Dorian Gray", is quite accurate.

there are people of both sexes who are genetically gifted in many ways

physically intellectually with various possible talents

children are often beautiful in this natural way

some of these children remain beautiful as they become adults

now it has been traditional for women at puberty to begin enhancing themselves

not necessarily in this day (those who are holding strictly to weinginger without leaving any room for change from the victorian age to this i have some doubts as to their actual wisdom vs an idolatrty - it would be interesting if he lived today whether his view would be slightly altered due to the time)

i am not talking about the sensuous coy ethereal beauty with layers of make up and chiffon trailing

i am talking about bare bones out of the shower physicaly symmetry as it is symmetry that is perceived of as beautiful it is those same characteristics that are known to be healthy and that you cannot be born symmetrical and healthy and yet be a thinker i am not buying

as those who have issues with christianity can have no problem with jesus

so can one see the essence of what weininger said which it seems to me is that women should think for herself should be self sustaining and should make enlightenment her goal

if you are telling me nature or human evolution has conspired so that one born with physical symmetry is exclued by their genetic make up from the above i am not buying it

just like i am fine with jesus but not with the bible thumpers

so can i be agree with the essence of weininger without buying the whole about women which was written about the woman of the victorian age

(i am thinking by myself here so stoning me as a heretic for doing so woul be contadictory)

i know my own mind at least to the level of what goes through it ona regular basis

i know what i as a particular human with XX chromosones think about i do not think about men nor marriage nor romantic love

i think about how (as a newly minted graduate of higher education) how i am going to sustain myself and even to how i can purchase quiet as i have been discussing via pm with kevin

living in the city one needs more than average funds in order to purchase quiet

here is a quote from our convo i do not think he would mind

You will be able to operate more calmly and energy-efficiently when you are wise. But you may only become wise if you have more quiet and solitude.

and

A sage is much more patient and calm than ordinary people, since he never takes anything personally. However, he can also suffer from sleep deprivation if the noise levels are too high.

kelly jones

Genius demands intellectual and psychological stamina, not grace, deferring to lies, and dancing skills. It ages you rapidly, because its demand for egolessness is in direct conflict with the human instinct to live happily. Also, psychosomatic illnesses, due to stress, increase the ordinary wear and tear on the body.

is this a defense of weininger's romantic suicide in the house where beethoven died

which as i have said before if done by a woman would have been labeled 'hysteria'

also are you implying here that psychosomatic illness are also a requirement for genius does that not contradict intellectual and psychological stamina

did weininger state this in his writings

and does the fact that from the age of seven to seventeen i wore a *gasp* leotard automatically exclude me

i might mention that even then i thought for myself

i refused to wear the pink satin toe shoes because they were extremely painful

but i did love the athleticism and the music

i hail back to the greek ideal of a healthy mind in a healthy body

did scorates decry the above statement saying one could not be wise and have a healthy body and a healthy mind

is it weininger thoughts or his life we are to emulate

i mean really killing yourself in beethoven's house does seem a bit attention seeking

and is that not the feminine way to create drama in order to attract attention

and for a genius why was recognition a matter of life and death

wiki

Weininger shot himself in the house in Vienna where Beethoven had died, the man he considered one of the greatest geniuses of all. This made him a cause célèbre, inspired several imitation suicides, and turned his book into a success. The book received glowing reviews by August Strindberg, who wrote that it had "probably solved the hardest of all problems", the "woman problem".

kelly jones

That's right. So tell me again why women wear make up, dye their hair, colour their nails, spray themselves with poisonous fumes, pluck and tear out their hair, exhaust themselves trying to lose fat, stick holes into their ears and noses and other bits, wear painful shoes, squeeze their bodies into tight clothes and underwear, and spray urine all over public toilet seats - and rarely wash their hands after doing so?

la la la we all know that women prior to this time in history were dependent on men as mates for both survival and status

but that is no longer so

women today can have it anyway she wants it at least in the the usa and similar countries

we can be glamourous or not

we can be educated or not

we can have children or not

we can wear make up or not etc

we can be stay at home wives and mothers or fly into space as the commander of a mission

is this the woman weininger knew

if you want to talk about what jesus said i am all ears if you want to tell me what some christian evangelist says about what jesus said please don't

if you want me to be open to weininger's genius as being for all time great if you want to keep it in the victorian context of women then it is history not philosophy

and about not washing of hands in a public bathroom do you have statistics

rarely=x

and what about men statistics there too

or is what you are really saying is that some women adorn themselves and yet neglect basic hygiene and this is gross

this is a very weak argument in fact imo a bit 'hysterical'

Kelly Jones wrote:It would be interesting to see a new Genius Forum profile page, including brief biography and photos. This could knock this old popular myth on the head quite quickly - for who can see it. I'll even put the pages together, as I'd personally like to see these people make up and/or update their bio and find some photos: Sue Hindmarsh, Tharan, Matt Gregory, David Hodges, Dan Rowden, Kevin Solway, David Quinn, Marsha Faizi, Leyla Shen, Bryan McGilly, beingof1, Nick, shardrol, and a few others who I can't recall at present.

Sure, the old bio is five or ten years out of date; I should update that. If you want, you can see more recent pictures of me on my Myspace Page. Mostly they are pictures of me playing guitar, because that's the sort of occasion when people take pictures of me. I'm not that into the whole picture-taking thing.

Was Weininger an alluring parasite?

allure and therefore parasite is not a given not a valid argument nor a sound one

but weininger is not far from a good physical model for dorian grey

which in my mind gives credence to his beliefs as they were a matter of choice not the venom of rejection

He was very well-educated, probably courteous, wealthy, well-groomed, and fastidious about hygiene. What appears as elegance is probably fastidiousness about intellectual health.

why not also physical health again is not physical health supportive of intellectual health and vice versa and why cannot a women be well groomed and fastidious without being out of bounds for genius

My thoughts are that Weininger was not enlightened

not enlightened what heresy is not his genius aka known on this forum as enlightenment and claimed by his main supporters kevin and david a given otherwise why should i take any interest at all

Incidentally, he wasn't a one-dimensional beauty, like an image frozen in a photo. Weininger was well-aware of how his physiology changed in relation to his psychological state, and used a mirror to observe this. There's some reference to the dramatic physiological changes of men with deep character, as they age.

yes gravitas does alter the child like rosy cheeked version/vision of beauty but it does not disallow beauty serious men and women can be as beautiful if not more beautiful to the discerning than playboys and nymphets

As I recall, it confirmed his theory that the biological organism is created by intellect and character; the genius being the most whole, conscious and developed organism.

the biological organism is altered and adapted by intellect and character but it is created through mating and the subsequent genetic code.

and you just said he was not enlightened in your opinion so how can he confirm his own theory of genius in the context used here that genius is enlightenment

ThroughAir wrote: Then one just stumbles upon being enlightend?

Yes much like learning a bicycle, efforts lead to effortlessness. Since enlightenment is the most natural state, it would be immediately apparent to one. Further if you are sincere you can tell if you are lying to yourself.