GENIUS FORUMS

Sapius,

Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. "It's the wind that is really moving," stated the first one. "No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second. A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them. "Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."

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Sue

What is with all the words? You know all this chattiness is girly, right?

If you haven't experienced yourself literally as Brahman - the only person, or as Aja - the unborn, or see everything and all creatures (the Tao) literally as yourself - and also nothing as yourself, you don't have the faintest clue what enlightenment is.

sue hindmarsh wrote:Sapius,

Two men were arguing about a flag flapping in the wind. "It's the wind that is really moving," stated the first one. "No, it is the flag that is moving," contended the second. A Zen master, who happened to be walking by, overheard the debate and interrupted them. "Neither the flag nor the wind is moving," he said, "It is MIND that moves."

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Sue

Sure, Sue, that is what a graduate tells a 4th grade student, and I don’t consider you as that student. It is time that you move forward since you are already quite convinced of what you know.

According to me, what the Zen master says is Humbug, because I would ask him, show me a Mind that is flapping. And if he is really a Zen Master, he will simply keep quite and walk away, if he doesn’t, he cannot be considered even as a good student.

Go and ask Your Master if you have one, and tell him what I say, and from his reaction you will know if he has any Realization at all. At least I will know.

Don’t you know that a Mind itself is an object of consciousness? So what is actually happening except a happening? Look at it without any interpretation at all. Just let the self be, and experience without ever interpreting the flag, the wind, or the mind at all.

Once you are able to do that, don’t come back and tell me. You will automatically not care then, actually. For now “YOU” know, end of story.




Unwise, have patience, once you and me were in the same boat, and don’t tell me that all that you think you know happened through magic. Have you forgotten the mental turmoil you must have gone through to even understand what happened to you? Now that you have a convincing interpretation of your experiences, take a back seat again, for you are still in the same boat that you were, unless I see you dropping any and all interpretations all together. On the other hand, I’m not the confirmation you need, look into your self again, and take the next step, all on your own.

It is impolite to look down upon that which one was himself earlier. One has to necessarily cut the pride if one wants to move forward.

If you have not realized the utter equal-ness in importance of absolutely all that there is, you actually know nothing then. A speck of dust at the distance of infinity, is as responsible for the existence of Now, as is what one learns in the kindergarten as A=A, Causality, the illusory nature of “things”, “super natural” experiences, or the fact that I was born out of a woman, all of which is as close as saying 'under my nose'. And just because all is under ones nose, it seems too insignificant to even take a look at, and because we are being hampered to actually see under our noses, because of the placement of ours eyes, so one has to necessarily use a mirror to see what is under his nose, and that mirror is Nature, and I guess you understand the rest. What can one consider Not Reality? Tell me?

I have no idea what you people are talking about. It sounds like the flowery stuff at the Ananda New Age book store. You think you are going to think your way into enlightenment, but enlightenment does not take thinking at all - it is pure realization.

Sap, you seem young to me. Sort of like a Mormon missionary. Do you carry that flip chart of pictures to explain salvation?

Unwise wrote:

I have no idea what you people are talking about.

With all due respects, of course you don’t, because by your own admittance you do not ‘think’ any more, but have a God given gift of direct realization. Please wake up Unwise.

It sounds like the flowery stuff at the Ananda New Age book store. You think you are going to think your way into enlightenment, but enlightenment does not take thinking at all - it is pure realization.

Sure, it is Realization, but realization requires understanding, and understanding requires thinking, both of which you are discounting; basically blinding yourself to those necessary facts, because you have had an accidental out of body experience, and have read some Hindu books, and interpret your not so very unique experience into what you think is “enlightenment”. You have mistaken a very natural phenomenon as “Salvation”, because you WANT it.

I cannot treat you the same as Sue or PT, simply because your claim changes the situation.

Sap, you seem young to me.

Now do I? So you think thoughtfulness, maturity, realization, comes with age? In fact I have seen quite immature 60 year olds, so I don’t need to know your age, that is no criterion when it comes to Realization. Just that tells me how much you know about Realization. You are absolutely blind to what I say otherwise you would be the first one to understand. So I have to necessarily tell you, you are not the only one with such an experience.

Sort of like a Mormon missionary. Do you carry that flip chart of pictures to explain salvation?

Really? In fact I see that you carry that chart in your head. E.g.

If you haven't experienced yourself literally as Brahman - the only person, or as Aja - the unborn,

or see everything and all creatures (the Tao) literally as yourself - and also nothing as yourself,

Are you one of those elite that was born from the head of Brahma? You are simply parroting what you have read, and are applying those interpretations to your experience, because it suites your ego. You are not that unique, Unwise.

Tell me your detailed experience, just from the time you left and came back, and I can tell if you speak the truth. Go to your ‘My Bliss” thread, and reread my posts, and if you have the courage, answer my questions on your experience, and you will know what knowing means.

What is with all the words? You know all this chattiness is girly, right?

Sorry, I didn't know that. So what un-girly, un-chattiness do you offer?

you don't have the faintest clue what enlightenment is.

Don’t underestimate any one, for there are those that do not trumpet what you want others to acknowledge in you. Your very sentence tells me how much of a “realization” you have had.

Drop the word “enlightenment”, and Brahman, and their attached meanings, and then rethink plainly, my friend.