GENIUS FORUMS

YA RLY. Unless you think depression is fun.

Why be depressed? I'm not.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote: Say, your name was the only one of that crew I saw here for awhile before the forum suddenly got locked... I wonder who started the drama?

You linked to the thread.

There was absolutely no possible reason other than trying to stir a shit-pot that had almost settled.

I don't know how or why the other guys came over here. My guess would be that they saw Dan's name in the "who's online" thingie...

I was at the grocery store having a fucking panic attack because everyone around me being angry activates that whole paranoia thing. So thanks. Really.

Unidian wrote:

YA RLY. Unless you think depression is fun.

Why be depressed? I'm not.

Well, I'm not actually depressed. It's just kind of "depressing" (rhetorical device in lieu of a better term) to see people speaking so much codswallop about thinking.

BTW, just for the record, I'm not aware of any "stated wish" on the part of either Philo or myself to "diassociate" from Dan. Granted, there was some conflict in a recent thread that got a bit ugly, but as far as I know, we only stated that we believed people of conscience should disassociate from David Quinn.

Nor was it necessary, IMO, for Dan to delete his pages hosted at Future Philosophy, although he certainly has the right to do so if that is his preference.

Katy wrote:thingie...

"Thingie?" Grown-ups say "thing" not "thingie" - actually little boys don't say "thingie" either, only little girls. And as for blaming me for your panic attack, also girlish behavior. And if you were at the grocery store when I posted the link, I could not have had anything to do with your panic attack. That does look "feminine" to me too.

David,

It might be my imagination, but I think Philosophaster does have a bit of soul or conscience in him.

Philo is a great kid. He'll probably achieve greatness and immortality.

Katy wrote:I was at the grocery store having a fucking panic attack because everyone around me being angry activates that whole paranoia thing. So thanks. Really.

It's just value confict, Katy. What does it matter if there's a bit of a battle royale happening at the moment? It's just how it is sometimes. The alternative is for people to all think the same way like some kind of Borg people.

Break out the butter knives I say!

Well, I'm not actually depressed. It's just kind of "depressing" (rhetorical device in lieu of a better term) to see people speaking so much codswallop about thinking.

Well, sorry to hear it. But "thinking" in the sense it is concieved of here has nothing further to offer me, as I tried to stress in the "Critique" thread. I've gone as far as I could go with that, and found that it cut the legs out from under itself. Reality is not what we say it is. It can't be apprehended in thought. Reality is the immediate, unconditioned experience as it presents itself to us in the form of physics, pancakes, and yes... puppies. For the record, I'm not a big puppy fan myself, but there it is nonetheless.

Neither thought or speech bring us closer to the truth of this immediate experience. Rather, they only distract us from it.

Sher,

Philo is a great kid. He'll probably achieve greatness and immortality.

Yes, but doesn't he need to escape my evil clutches first?

Unidian wrote:BTW, just for the record, I'm not aware of any "stated wish" on the part of either Philo or myself to "diassociate" from Dan. Granted, there was some conflict in a recent thread that got a bit ugly, but as far as I know, we only stated that we believed people of conscience should disassociate from David Quinn.

No, it went beyond that. However, the clarification of what was intended is welcome.

Nor was it necessary, IMO, for Dan to delete his pages hosted at Future Philosophy, although he certainly has the right to do so if that is his preference.

I was simply respecting what seemed to me to be a desire for said disassociating. It certainly wasn't anything that I actually wanted. I'm fast running out of space on my own server so I'll probably put the files back at some point. At the moment I'm busy pretending to know something about web page design....

I don't know why Katy can't handle conflict right now. Even me, the weakest of weakest posters at this forum, can handle it.

Katy seems to have this idea that all people can get along very nicely all the time, and that people who don't like each other should party together and hug each other. Not my idea of a fun party, but, we all have different values.

And Jamesh, stay out of this. You have no candle in this funeral. :)

And appearantly Nat and Philo coming over for a visit cleared up a misunderstanding between them and Dan. This was a good thing. Clear communication is often helpful. Conflict just means something needs to be clarified, and as long as communication is directed at the ends of increasing understanding (rather than twisting of words and pot-shots), then there is nothing wrong with a little conflict.

Yes, but doesn't he need to escape my evil clutches first?

Not at all. I will always think highly of you Nat, and I would hope that by now you knew that. Shit happens though, and I understand some positions you have to take.

Unidian wrote:

Well, I'm not actually depressed. It's just kind of "depressing" (rhetorical device in lieu of a better term) to see people speaking so much codswallop about thinking.

Well, sorry to hear it. But "thinking" in the sense it is concieved of here has nothing further to offer me, as I tried to stress in the "Critique" thread. I've gone as far as I could go with that, and found that it cut the legs out from under itself.

Well, it doesn't do that exactly. But that type of statement could be made about almost anything. If the object of the exercise is to understand something, and you find that you do, obviously there's no further need to think about it. However, you're taking it way beyond the personal (which even if I disagree with your assessment I can nevertheless understand) and into the general and the result of that is to put people off thinking. For reasons that ought be obvious I can't stand by and see that happening. I have to speak against it.

Reality is not what we say it is.

Ok, but you can only come to such a realisation by thinking about it.

It can't be apprehended in thought.

That's not strictly true. The fact of its " beyond any specific concept" nature is something apprehended through thought, culminating in non-attachment.

Reality is the immediate, unconditioned experience as it presents itself to us in the form of physics, pancakes, and yes... puppies.

Well, yeah, but also death, violence and anything else you want to mention. The unconditioned experience of a wise person isn't the same as that of a infant.

For the record, I'm not a big puppy fan myself, but there it is nonetheless.

Hmm, not sure there's all that much difference between puppies and cheeze pizza. Maybe you could split the difference and try a puppy pizza. Ask your nearest Korean deli owner..

Neither thought or speech bring us closer to the truth of this immediate experience. Rather, they only distract us from it.

Actually, that's not possible. Thought and speech are necessarily just another part of that experience. All things are.

Shit happens though, and I understand some positions you have to take.

I don't "have to take" any positions.

Why do people think I get pushed around like that? Anyone who knows me knows that I never do anything I "have to do," especially if I really have to do it.

Is it possible I could be taking these positions because I arrived at them fairly and reasonably, or is that too inconceivable? Just curious.

Dan,

Okay, you do have a point in one regard. How about if I were to say "think until you realize why thinking any further is useless." Would that be a more acceptable message?

Uni,

But "thinking" in the sense it is concieved of here has nothing further to offer me, as I tried to stress in the "Critique" thread. I've gone as far as I could go with that, and found that it cut the legs out from under itself.

Are you sure you were using it correctly?

Neither thought or speech bring us closer to the truth of this immediate experience. Rather, they only distract us from it.

Merleau-Ponty seemed to love running around in circles around this very point. He wrote a very large book on the topic of describing immediate experience ("The Phenomenology of Perception") -- all the while holding your stated belief as a truism.

I highly recommend this book, if only for the hope that seeing somebody putting your belief into action will make you feel like an idiot for ever believing it.

[For the record, I don't recommend this book to anyone other than Nat. Not even three chapters in, I had a stunning revelation: I had just wasted $35.]

Nat,

Depends on which positions, exactly, you're talking about. There's nothing reasonable, for example, about your position on cheeze pizzas. They are disgusting. Everyone knows this.

Unidian wrote:Dan,

Okay, you do have a point in one regard. How about if I were to say "think until you realize why thinking any further is useless." Would that be a more acceptable message?

Ok, so long as the "any further" part is there.

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:

Katy wrote:thingie...

"Thingie?" Grown-ups say "thing" not "thingie" - actually little boys don't say "thingie" either, only little girls. And as for blaming me for your panic attack, also girlish behavior. And if you were at the grocery store when I posted the link, I could not have had anything to do with your panic attack. That does look "feminine" to me too.

Dan might be interested in the fact that grown ups and boys don't say "thingy" since he says it. Though he spells it "thingy" while I spell it "thingie" does that make it more masculine in your book? Frankly, I think you have completely misunderstood the entire philosophy at this board. And I am far from alone in that thought.

And while you're not responsible for this panic attack, you are responsible for intentionally stirring up shit that had almost settled and making the situation worse. Just as you were last time by tattle tailing to Robert and Phil. You're not involved.

Why do you want to get involved in drama that doesn't involve you? Are you maliscious or unconscious?

Dan Rowden wrote:

Unidian wrote:Dan,

Okay, you do have a point in one regard. How about if I were to say "think until you realize why thinking any further is useless." Would that be a more acceptable message?

Ok, so long as the "any further" part is there.

Actually, I take that back. I think at bottom the message is totally pointless because the individual thinker will have to have reached an understanding of Reality himself to be able to appreciate it, and having attained that understanding, it is redundant.

Why do people think I get pushed around like that? Anyone who knows me knows that I never do anything I "have to do," especially if I really have to do it.

We all get pushed around, Nat. Sometimes allowing ourselves to be pushed around can actually be a good long-term strategy. Plus, taking a don't-push-me position can create quite a bit uncomfort in your life. Practicality takes over. At the end of the day, you are responsible for making your own life as pleasant and pain-free as possible.

Phil o so pher: I think I'll go put on that lovely dress I bought the other day and prance around the house.

Reading this while looking at the severity of your icon, it's stare, was quite an interesting picture.

Just for fun, I'll think I'll take your comment literally. Duality is capable of sorts of conflicting opposites.

And as for Undian's comment

Are you having Fun?

Yes, we were having fun.

We are as equally caused to seek what is positive to us, as you are.

(thank God I'm not enlightened, otherwise I wouldn't be able to admit that. I'd have to be dishonest)

Mind you here for the most part, both sides are presented. We are not big on pats on the back over here - jeez I was even so desperate for some positve herd valuation the other day, that I made a post asking for some :) It just depends on how far one goes with it. Lol, even me using the word 'we" above is herdy.

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We all get pushed around, Nat. Sometimes allowing ourselves to be pushed around can actually be a good long-term strategy. Plus, taking a don't-push-me position can create quite a bit uncomfort in your life. Practicality takes over. At the end of the day, you are responsible for making your own life as pleasant and pain-free as possible.

Ok, so you're going to insist this is Cloudy's doing?

Well, okay. If that's what anyone wants to believe, I don't think I can convince them otherwise.

Katy and Elizabeth,

Why do women always find a way to make things, especially so-called dramas, about them? It's ridiculous. The "drama", such that it is, is entirely about a notion David expressed and the reaction it got in certain quarters. How on earth is that about either of you? It could only be about either of you to the extent that you have an opinion about it. Beyond that I'm pretty clueless.

I think you should both drop it.