GENIUS FORUMS

yes i said it,

The DMT chemical found in all life could very well be blamed for spirituality and religions all together. if you dont know what DMT is ill explain a short bit if your interested look up The spirit molecule and you will learn all about it. basically it's a chemical found in the Pineal gland of the brain and responsible for creativity and Dreaming. During the day if your are relaxed and you can relax your pineal gland you can have some serious creative thoughts. if your tense during the day and its bright out then forget about it the pineal gland acts on light and gets very tense and refuses to give up its precious DMT. At night when you sleep (most relaxed) and its dark the pineal gland spews our DMT and you hallucinate its also called a dream. some people do something called Meditation where they fake the pineal gland into thinking there sleeping and then they feel and talk to there "spirit" basically there higher being also known as DMT. I infer that DMT was found in high quantities in Buddha and other high level meditators. They master meditating and they naturally have a ton of DMT so that when they meditate they can have a DMT trip while awake and conscious (fascinating).

If your curious how this affects my view on religion then ask me and ill tell you how i think Jesus and Einstein are exactly the same.

thanks for reading
FLY

just act natural be bonds

mind altering drugs can blow the doors of perception open, but they are not needed. I'm not dismissing them altogether because for some people they are able to break down cultural conditioning quite quickly, but good old reasoning can do that as well, and without the brain damage. ; )

im not talking about drugs, im talking about natural DMT found in the brain and blood.

yes, there are hundreds to thousands of bio-chemicals that are vital to the functioning of the brain, and giving rise to consciousness. DMT is one of them. In my view, its not all that different than a neurochemical such as dopamine. As far as altered or heightened states of awareness goes, you need to be extremely logical and be a decent philosopher to be clear minded, that seems more important than achieving heightened states of awareness.

I think people get far too caught with achieving heightened states, while they ignore the more important part of the spiritual path - becoming clear minded and logical.

Because when the altered experience is over, you are left with your own mind and thoughts. An experience is limited in that sense.

FlyingPenguin wrote:If your curious how this affects my view on religion then ask me and ill tell you how i think Jesus and Einstein are exactly the same.

thanks for reading
FLY

Sure, sock it to me :-)

PS - Welcome aboard Genius Forums.

Tomas wrote:

FlyingPenguin wrote:If your curious how this affects my view on religion then ask me and ill tell you how i think Jesus and Einstein are exactly the same.

thanks for reading
FLY

Sure, sock it to me :-)

PS - Welcome aboard Genius Forums.

if you ask you shall recieve,

first off what i say means nothing its just an opinion it may not even make sense but it is my logical view on how DMT makes religion just look like a Genius wrote it.

Ill make it short, If I'm wrong i stand corrected but DMT makes people creative. i believe that genius's are people who can hyper focus on a subject and basically go through any obstacle to reach a conclusion. so i believe that say Jesus and any other person in the past that made a religion just got in touch with there belief and started to tell people. just highly creative people convincing others that they know what happens after life and how humans came to be. and they kept telling people then those people told people then it spread because the way Jesus described it was perfect because all he did was think about his idea. then people wrote the bible about him and it was documented from there on people believed that he was the son of god whom he created and he just blew up. im sure that he wasnt as big a deal during his time then he is now. basically i just think that religion is a story or creative way to look at life. i dont think that people should be worshiping them but they should be fans of them for such a cool story. maybe make a movie out of the bible i dont know. but all i know is its taken to seriously for a book written over 2000 years ago. im not trying to put religion down i just am saying its old news we got new things like DMT and other brain chemicals to think about. if you have a question ill be glad to answer i hope i craved your thirst for curiousity.
FLY

logically speaking, I don't think one can be certain of an afterlife. Such things are unknowable. I don't think heightened amounts of DMT will change that. Logic dictates that there are things we can be certain of and other things we cannot.

And there is actually a 50% that there is nothing after death, which is something most people do not even want to think about, due to their fear of death.

The ego's fear of death is fascinating as well.

Have you ever wondered why we fear death? or what is it in us that feels fear? And how is that different than when we are in a state of mind where we are fearless?

i have wondered many times why people fear death. also have you wondered why old people want to stay alive when they can hardly move and have help to breath. it fascinates me because i have never feared death i want to die just to know what its like. i have a strange feeling that its just going to be a extremely intense and vivid dream but that is because i believe that DMT has something to do with death. death is a taboo to talk about around people who are close minded i found and the say they can't sleep after talking about death. Fascinating but weird at the same time...

Correction: Dr. Rick Strassman speculated that DMT was produced in large quantities in the Pineal Gland. He did this for the reason, primarily, that Rene Descartes speculated the seat of the soul was the pineal gland.

Fact is however, that the pineal gland appears to play no significant role in consciousness other than as an endocrine gland producing melatonin.

Dimethyltryptamine only appears in trace amounts in the human body, and has only been observed during various stages of development.

Dr. Rick Strassman's theory assumed the presence of dimethyltryptamine because of the presence of methyltransferase, but methyltransferase is primarily a methyl transferase for the purpose of methylation of DNA. In other words, it is part of the newly discovered epigenetics.

I think you will probably find that the pineal gland serves as a modulator of sleep/wake cycles and DNA methylation and similar functions of the brain.

What does any of this have to do with "spirits" anyway? Its all still a brain.

no but i will be on new years to start off my year.

and i still believe that DMT has some sort of use in the human body. I believe there is more than a trace amount because some studies show that DMT is produced by the pineal gland and is the main chemical for Dreaming along with melatonin which is the sleep cycle.

50% chance of afterlife? no. there is either 100% chance there is an afterlife, or 100% chance there is not. an altered state of mind is simply that, you are not closer to enlightenment. a transfer of bodies as i view the world differently than you, but i do not view it more clearly or accurately.

the thinking man thinks, the knowing man does not.

FlyingPenguin wrote:no but i will be on new years to start off my year.

and i still believe that DMT has some sort of use in the human body. I believe there is more than a trace amount because some studies show that DMT is produced by the pineal gland and is the main chemical for Dreaming along with melatonin which is the sleep cycle.

What studies exactly?

FlyingPenguin wrote:and i still believe that DMT has some sort of use in the human body. I believe there is more than a trace amount because some studies show that DMT is produced by the pineal gland and is the main chemical for Dreaming along with melatonin which is the sleep cycle.

DMT is chemically designed into the brains makeup by the creator, as a 'bridge' between the chemical and spiritual dimensions. It's only released under certain circumstances, mainly death, or near death experience.

Certain drugs like LSD can also simulate it, but the brain is not designed for repeated exposure to it, it shortcuts the natural design.

prince wrote:

FlyingPenguin wrote:and i still believe that DMT has some sort of use in the human body. I believe there is more than a trace amount because some studies show that DMT is produced by the pineal gland and is the main chemical for Dreaming along with melatonin which is the sleep cycle.

DMT is chemically designed into the brains makeup by the creator, as a 'bridge' between the chemical and spiritual dimensions. It's only released under certain circumstances, mainly death, or near death experience.

Certain drugs like LSD can also simulate it, but the brain is not designed for repeated exposure to it, it shortcuts the natural design.

Have you ever read the work of Parnia, Fenwick, Morse, Blackmore or any other NDE researcher?

I don't recognize the names but yes, I most likely have.

prince wrote:I don't recognize the names but yes, I most likely have.

What do you gather from their work? Specifically the experiments using clocks or other concealed targets that NDErs might see during an OBE/NDE?

I gather what I gather.

What do you gather? I don't see clocks as being relevant, perhaps you can enlighten me..

prince wrote:I gather what I gather.

What do you gather? I don't see clocks as being relevant, perhaps you can enlighten me..

Sorry Prince, I updated my post.

The experiments in question involved randomly selected, concealed targets that NDErs could see during their experience (Parnia et al. 2001) also Parnia, S. and Fenwick, P. (2002) Near-death experiences in cardiac arrest: visions of a dying brain or visions of a new science of consciousness. Resuscitation 52.


One of the researchers I mentioned was Susan Blackmore. Blackmore was a serious Psi researcher for a long time. She was inspired by an OBE she had while smoking pot. Many of her papers are cited by proponents of OBEs/NDEs to this day, however, Blackmore herself expresses a different opinion. Consider this excerpt from her book Consciousness: An Introduction (Intended as an introductory textbook for graduate students of philosophy interested in consciousness research):

How To Regard Them [NDEs]

(...)

Paranormal and supernatural explanations fare badly. They gain little support from the evidence and face apparently insuperable theoretical obstacles. (...)

We might usefully ask whether this dualist conception of the universe is really more spiritual than the scientific, monist, view. And if so why? Many mystics specifically reject paranormal claims as missing the point. Underhill (1920) calles them "off the track," and James declares they "have no essential mystical significance" (James, 1902: 408 n.) In Zen Buddhism trainees are taught to ignore visions, miracles and faith-healing. "They are no better than dreams which vanish for ever on awakening. To hold on to them is to become a prey to superstition" (Kennett, 1972: 27).

An alternative, though much less popular, view is that the deepest mystical insights are not only monist and non-paranormal, but are perfectly compatible with science. They might be summarized as "the universe is one, the separate self is an illusion, immortality is not in the future but now, everything is as it is and there is nothing to be done." If these insights are valid, what needs overthrowing is not monist science but the vestiges of dualist thinking that still lurk within it. (pp 367 - 368)

There is also a fair amount about Altered states following drug use:

"Some drugs can induce OBEs, especially psychaedelics LSD, psilocybin, DMT, and mesaline and the dissociative anaesthetic ketamine, which often induces feelings of body separation and floating." (p 356)

"Like many other sacred drug mixtures, ayahuasca contains DMT, dimethoxytryptamine, along with β-carbolines. When smoked or injected, DMT is a terrifyingly powerful fast-acting hallucinogen, which tends especially to evoke colorful visions of snakes and serpents, and "seems to have all the cognitive contents of a firework display" (Callaway, 1999: 263). When eaten it is normally inactivated by the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO), but ayahuasca contains MAO inhibitors, the β-carbolines harmine, tetrahydroharmine and harmaline. This creates a long-lasting hallucinogenic mixture whose exact effects can be controlled for different purposes by fine variations in the method of preparation." (p. 318)

Blackmore seems to regard the experiences as something to use for exploring one's self:

"Experienced travelers learn to look calmly into their very worst fears, face up to death, confront of lose themselves, and many other lessons. Specific skills are needed for exploring the worlds revealed this way, and those who acquire this kind of wisdom recognize it in others. Understanding all these phenomena is not helped by drawing a sharp line between reality and imagination."

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Books/C ... s/cons.htm


None of Parnia's, Fenwick's, Morse's, Blackmore's or anyone else's controlled experiments support the conclusion that people genuinely escape their bodies. All the experiments involving concealed objects that would be visible to OBErs had negative results. Parnia, Fenwick and Morse routinely misinterpret their own data.

And this is news to me, why?

prince wrote:And this is news to me, why?

Well... the evidence and logic completely destroys your hypothesis that "DMT is chemically designed into the brains makeup by the creator, as a 'bridge' between the chemical and spiritual dimensions"

There is no such spiritual dimension to 'bridge'.

Perhaps you aren't fond of actual logic and actual data.

There is no after"life". You know, to be dead means to not be alive.

The dead cannot see, nor hear, nor smell, nor taste, nor feel, nor sense their own heartbeat, nor construct thoughts in their mind, nor do they have a sense of self that would be the relative point of awareness that is experiencing any of these things. Death is the destruction of the specific pattern of activation occurring in reality that is a conscious entity. All are transient formations of the Tao. This is really a no-brainer [pun intended]. Without the pattern of activation - which is experienced by us to be a brain - there is no faculty or sense organs of perception. I'm careful not to say the the brain as we perceive it is a complete description of the reality. We only ever perceive it through our shared manifold of perception. However, this perception serves as a differentiable model with cognitively available interactions which are adequate for our understanding.

If a person takes a hallucinogen, they might experience chaotic activations of their primary visual cortex. This is a hallucination and has an adequate physical explanation. Alternatively, it could be hypothesized that the drug actually causes indifferentiation of stimuli, such that it disengages from its typical function of differentiation reality into separate objects with cognitively available causal interactions. This is a view espoused by Aldous Huxley in The Doors of Perception. He refers to the brain as a "cerebral reducing valve". However, this hypothesis [afterlife] runs into major problems with modern science. Primarily that the ego, or self, is determined to be a phenomenal representation of the brain. Thus, to destroy the brain, is to destroy any sense of self that would be the experiencer of an afterlife. In clinical cases like Cotard's syndrome it is clear that an individual sense of self can be skewed beyond recognition. Consider this example related by Wikipedia:

[The patient's] symptoms occurred in the context of more general feelings of unreality and being dead. In January, 1990, after his discharge from hospital in Edinburgh, his mother took him to South Africa. He was convinced that he had been taken to hell (which was confirmed by the heat), and that he had died of septicaemia (which had been a risk early in his recovery), or perhaps from AIDS (he had read a story in The Scotsman about someone with AIDS who died from septicaemia), or from an overdose of a yellow fever injection. He thought he had "borrowed my mother's spirit to show me round hell", and that he was asleep in Scotland.

There are countless altered states of self that when considered with the neurological correlates of the phenomena adequately indicate that the self is a product of the brain. Probably one of the most famous examples is the split-brain patients. The fact of splitting the brain actually produces two separate consciousnesses and personalities, sometimes with different beliefs, preferences and attitudes.

Here is a very good youtube video by QualiaSoup on the subject of Substance Dualism which illustrates many of this point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsPn5dXfTvA

Animus wrote:

prince wrote:And this is news to me, why?

Well... the evidence and logic completely destroys your hypothesis that "DMT is chemically designed into the brains makeup by the creator, as a 'bridge' between the chemical and spiritual dimensions"
.

No it doesn't. The fact that things can go wrong, is irrelevant. If your computer gets a virus do you blame Microsoft/Apple?

prince wrote:

Animus wrote:

prince wrote:And this is news to me, why?

Well... the evidence and logic completely destroys your hypothesis that "DMT is chemically designed into the brains makeup by the creator, as a 'bridge' between the chemical and spiritual dimensions"
.

No it doesn't. The fact that things can go wrong, is irrelevant. If your computer gets a virus do you blame Microsoft/Apple?

Did you just gloss over everything I posted except the last paragraph?

Did you gloss over everything I have ever written on this forum?

Get back to me when you have something I don't know, which will be never.