New Testament

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Fri May 26, 2006 6:18 am

Lately I've been reading over the teachings of Jesus in the new testament. It usually goes back and forth between his teachings/parables and his miracles. The wisdom in his teachings and parables are impressive to say the least. The miracles seems to act as though they were the icing on the cake. I think that the person who wrote about these miracles did so for people to take Jesus' wisdom and teachings seriously. As for me the timeless wisdom and Truths Jesus spoke of are enough for me to realize how wise he was. Who knows maybe he did perform miracles, but I would be lying if I said I believed these things just from reading about them in a book. I know one of the USA's founding fathers , not sure which one, actually went as far as to white out all the parts in the New Testament about Jesus performing miracles and being the son of God. Leaving only his teachings and parables visible for himself to more easily read.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:25 am

What were some intelligent things Jesus said, in your opinion?

Angel Ramirez · Post by **Angel Ramirez** » Fri May 26, 2006 7:43 am

Nick wrote:I know one of the USA's founding fathers , not sure which one, actually went as far as to white out all the parts in the New Testament about Jesus performing miracles and being the son of God.

That founding father was Thomas Jefferson. There was an article in Harper's a few months ago about this.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/Je ... 1dec05.htm

David Quinn · Post by **David Quinn** » Fri May 26, 2006 10:20 am

I've made a compilation of the wisests bits from the various Gospels here - The Horror of Jesus. There is certainly some good stuff there.

As for the miracles, they can either be interpreted as metaphors for inner spiritual realities, or they can be dismissed as fantasies concocted by power-hungry religious teachers eager to make thousands of converts from the gullible masses. Take your pick.

For example, the death of Jesus on the cross and his subsequent ressurection can be interpreted as a metaphor for the spiritual exercise of killing the ego and becoming enlightened. But it is presented in the Gospels in such a overly-dramatic, cartoonish way that it can really only appeal to feeble men, poets, young children, old women, etc, and thus can only be considered a poor-quality spiritual teaching at best.

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Tomas · Post by **Tomas** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:02 am

A 'Many Thanks' for the Thomas Jefferson find ... been many years since last reading that. A-nother nod and tip o' the hat for the http://www.mindfully.org website.

Have sent this far-and-wide already :-)

This world that we see my friends - it's not easy to be humble.

Peace Loved Up

Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:18 pm

sschaula wrote:What were some intelligent things Jesus said, in your opinion?

David's compilation of parables and teachings contains quite a few of the intelligent things that Jesus said, in my opinion.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:51 pm

I don't personally see how any of those things were wise. It'd probably take a long time for anyone to write about each saying, in how it relates to wisdom. I really don't see any connection, though.

Could you give me one example of something?

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:02 pm

How about this one...

The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, a your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6: 22

What do you make of that?

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Mark 12: 25

Or that?

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:29 pm

sschaula wrote:How about this one...

The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, a your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6: 22

What do you make of that?

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Mark 12: 25

Or that?

You must remember these are parables, parables that were written over 2000 yearss ago. Consider them mini-stories with a moral behind them. Jesus probably spoke in parables so that people had to think harder in order to discover the moral.

Think of a high school math book and how all the answers are in the back. It wont do you much good in the future when you might need to figure out a math problem without the book if you just copy down the answer. Jesus is the mathbook, the math formulas are the parables, and the answers in the back are the morals.

Cato · Post by **Cato** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:40 pm

I find reading the Bible with no knowledge of the terminology and hsitory of the day in which they are written makes one miss most of the substance of the thing.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:40 pm

Nick,

So basically...you don't understand what Jesus is talking about in those two "parables". I thought you'd at least give it a shot.

David Quinn,

Since you posted those two statements in your Jesus webpage, could you comment on what they mean?

We can't say someone is wise when we don't understand what they're talking about.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:26 pm

sschaula wrote:Nick,

So basically...you don't understand what Jesus is talking about in those two "parables". I thought you'd at least give it a shot.

David Quinn,

Since you posted those two statements in your Jesus webpage, could you comment on what they mean?

We can't say someone is wise when we don't understand what they're talking about.

You are quick to make ignorant assumptions about my knowledge. I gave you the tools to figure the parables out for yourself. If you must been spoon fed the morals, here you go.

"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matthew 6: 22"

Meaning if your eyes see things through Gods eyes, then you will be filled with his wisdom. If you see things through the darkness of ignorance you will be filled with ignorance.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:28 pm

Nick,

That's quite a stretch.

David Quinn · Post by **David Quinn** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:42 pm

Nick is on the right track. If one is enlightened and perceives the nature of Reality without distortion (i.e. one's "eyes" are healthy), then one's thoughts and actions will naturally be infused with this wisdom. By contrast, if one is unenlightened, only ignorance and foolishness will ensue.

As for the other quote:

When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. Mark 12: 25

This refers to the fact that perfectly enlightened people (i.e. those who have succeeded in killing their egos) are without attachments and don't form emotional relationships with anyone or anything.

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suergaz · Post by **suergaz** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Ego is self-conception. One cannot be without ego and be conscious.

Kevin Solway · Post by **Kevin Solway** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:53 pm

suergaz wrote:Ego is self-conception.

It is completely pointless your simply stating your own personal definitions, when it is plainly obvious that other people don't share them.

In the context of the way David uses the word, ego is not self-conception. but self-misconception - the source of egotism.

You are wasting your time over these definitions, and attempting to waste the time of others as well, because you don't want to think about anything.

suergaz · Post by **suergaz** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:08 pm

What you call my own personal definition is the highest definition of the word in question.

Leyla Shen · Post by **Leyla Shen** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:14 pm

Oh, for God's sake -- back it up with clear reasoning for a change, eh? Is that so hard to understand.

bert · Post by **bert** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:33 pm

there is a vast difference between ego and Ego ,mr.Solway.

sschaula · Post by **sschaula** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:05 am

David,

I just don't agree with your understanding of the parable. Not that I know of any other meaning for it. To me, it just seems too stretched. "The eye is the lamp of the body." Kind of strange translating that to: If you understand reality you'll see clearly.

I don't believe it.

bert · Post by **bert** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:01 am

if I can not believe in the eternity of Ego,whatever its fluctuations,in what shall I believe?

R. Steven Coyle · Post by **R. Steven Coyle** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:31 am

Ego also produces fear.

The self-confidence in true self-awareness, pacifies the ego.

bert · Post by **bert** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:04 am

R. Steven Coyle wrote:Ego also produces fear.

The self-confidence in true self-awareness, pacifies the ego.

the trust in your natural fund of genius.now he can accomplish with ease.until he doubts,ignorance obsesses him.doubt fertilizes in the virgin soil.he is no longer fearless but a coward to difficulties,his very learning is fear.the beginning of wisdom is fear of forethought.

R. Steven Coyle · Post by **R. Steven Coyle** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:25 am

Suffering, through process, has entrenched a blind rift. I must now unlearn my quest for the surmounting of structure, in order to reside in the eternal banquet. Difficult to collapse the onslaught of repeated thought patterns - the diseases of the road. Though I have found my walking stick, and I have the animals to guide me back to my self, my stomach still aches for friendship. I have not yet wholly befriended myself: I've learned to hide my ego within the immorality of time. To conceive immortality, I must again learn to dance with myself.

bert · Post by **bert** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:17 pm

the price of Identity is suffering

GENIUS FORUMS

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