Dan Rowden wrote:Yes, but it might have taken me a bit longer.
Bullshit, i reckons.If that was the case, any serious transcendental meditator would be a genius.
You fellas don't quote Buddha etc. for nout,they had wise things to say.
i could sit under a ficus religiousa for the rest of my life and still not come up with the wisdom the last 3000 years of serious thinking has come up with.
And, of course, you don't need to have anything to do with academia to read those guys.
Fair call, but it may have helped you understand Being and Time better,or not. :)
From a random page & a random paragraph in "Basic Writings." I wouldn't count the old boy out just yet:
"What is meant by the talk of the end of philosophy? We understand the end of something all too easily in the negative sense as a mere stopping, as the lack of continuation, perhaps even as decline and impotence. In contrast, what we say about the end of philosophy means the completion of metaphysics. However, completions does not mean perfection as a consequence of which philosophy would have attained the highest perfection at its end. Not only do we lack any criterion which would permit us to evaluate the perfection of an epoch of metaphysics as compared with any other epoch, the right to this kind of evaluation does not exist. Plato's thinking is no more perfect the Parmenides'. Hegel's philosophy is no more perfect than Kant's. Each epoch of philosophy has its own necessity. We simply have to acknowledge the fact that a philosophy is the way it is. It is not for us to prefer one to the other, as can be the case with regard to various Weltanschauunger [worldview]."
What at first seems rather mundane, if not tautological, must be viewed in light of what H. was up to, he was attempting the impossible task of recreating the conscious awakening in neolithic man of his self-awareness in light of his historical throwness. To deny the authenticity of any attempt to reach an understanding of the deeper questions serves only to deny our own authenticity.
The title of the essay, "The End of Philosophy, and the Task of Thinking," simply means we've been around the water-cooler enough times. The nature of the metaphysical questions have been defined (or denied, as the case may be), it is time to think about the answers.
This is actually one of his tamer tangents, I suppose you do have to be in the mood for it ;-)
Say, I was busy typing and missed all that. Pursuing the degree will enforce some discipline on me, as well as expose me to the taunts and jeers of my fellow students. I've heard they're quite merciless in a smug sort of manner, that should be good to get me cracking at the books.
Dan Rowden wrote:Yes, but it might have taken me a bit longer.
Bullshit, i reckons.If that was the case, any serious transcendental meditator would be a genius.
You fellas don't quote Buddha etc. for nout,they had wise things to say.
i could sit under a ficus religiousa for the rest of my life and still not come up with the wisdom the last 3000 years of serious thinking has come up with.
Well, that's your problem. The fact is a person could be stuck in a brick cell all their lives, never even learn to read and still become wise. It's handy to have people like the Buddha to quote, but it isn't a prerequisite.
Interesting that bit of turn on a monk in his cell, it fits my comment. One of the characteristics of mildly autistic adults (Asperger's) is that they lack validation for many of their private thoughts. For instance, they may lack the insight to perceive an individual as a threat since they tend to be poor at recognizing facial expressions.
I'm quite capable of deluding myself at times.
I simply think I need the direction, and would enjoy getting the degree, besides, it entitles me to all of the "privileges and immunities conferred." Funny, they never mention just What privileges & immunities they're talking about.
Dan Rowden wrote:
Well, that's your problem. The fact is a person could be stuck in a brick cell all their lives, never even learn to read and still become wise.
Well there you go.If i come to accept in the future that is in fact, a 'fact' then reading or discourse with others has in the past proved fruitful.
I actually had this discussion with my wife this morning. She enlightened me with the insight that a lot of what is seen as cynicism in academia, is really just burnout. I view myself as privileged to be able to begin a paper chase at this age. I'll only be 55, and I haven't spent too much time contemplating my navel. I am, however, burnt out and sick as a dog about working with computers anymore. Thirty+ years is long enough. The fancy toys (internet, games, etc.) are one thing, but slogging through the rain to fix a screwed up backup at 3:30 in the a.m. is not a decent thing for a grown man to do. It's unseemly... dirty somehow. You get my drift.
Dan Rowden wrote:A degree may confer certain privileges upon you, but I wonder at the cost to your soul. Of course, not everyone sees academia as cynically as me :)
I view the cost as somewhat necessary in my case. Getting a degree will greatly increase my knowledge in a variety of subjects in a way that I couldn't do in 4-5 years on my own time and motivation. It will give me knowledge that can get me a job if I need one to feed and heat myself and also better prepare me for (wilderness) "solitude" if I ever make it there.
I agree that academia is a joke, but getting a degree can give a solid basis of understanding that can aid in philosophy.
I agree. Once a person decides to undertake the process, what they get out of it correlates nicely with what they put in to it.
As for philosophy, im my case, the first course really was the most important. I've been teaching myself things all of my life, but my first foray into the philosophy section on my own led to, of all people, Schopenhauer. Try reading him without a proper grounding. I actually stumbled across the classic passages where he asserts that there is no such thing as happiness in life, only the absence of pain. Now, here's a guy to invite to the party.
Many liberal arts students forget just how important it is to understand math at least to calc, and to have a basic understanding of physics & biology. I skipped chemistry, and still regret it. As they say, how often do you use it, but I find that an understanding of the 1st & 2nd deriviative (instant velocity, instant acceleration) and knowing what the heck a standard deviation is, provide me with a leg up on things quite often. The more important point is, that when one appraoches a work such as Jaspers' "Shipwreck of Reason," you really do have a better insight into just what that phrase might mean if you've been exposed to things such as dual nature of light as both particle and wave.
One more bit of unsolicited advice, WhorlyWhelk, do not forgo the solitude bit. Even if only for 6 months or so. To confront your place in a a natural setting, while providing time to simply think is an invaluable asset in all phases of life. I did 5 years of it right after high-school; even made my living cutting trees for a while (horrors!).
In fact, the sawmill and lumbering, perhaps, taught me the most about appreciating the wilderness as it really is. A true story: we had to cut a virgin white pine one-time (and there're damn few of them left in Michigan). It was massive, and once she fell, we roughly calculated it to have been about 60 years-old when George Washington was president. We were awe struck. All of the men in the crew spent at least a few minutes over the next few days examining the trunk, and the look on thier faces said plenty. We had done an awesome thing. It was necessary, and the resource provided, the finest, clearest pine boards you will ever see, went to an historic purpose restoring a building at the ghost town at Fayette State Park.
Men who cut trees for a living are not crybabies; but they do understand the need for survival, and at just exactly what cost that survival may incur. But hell, let's not over-romanticize it, we got drunk as hell that Friday night. The story was told, and retold at length, as the mighty pine took on leviathan status; in the end, it seemed we were in serious need of a blue ox. Men are like that.
However, I like to think Hemmingway would approve of a theft when I quote him to say, "...and they were awake for a long time the next morning, before they remembered that thier hearts were broken."
