Heaven & Hell Paradox

Discussion of the nature of Ultimate Reality and the path to Enlightenment.
Iolaus
Posts: 1033
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:14 pm

Post by Iolaus »

Hello Sleeping,

You say I am very arrogant and condescending. Perhaps it comes across that way on the forum. I don't think I get that reaction much in the real world. I do not feel arrogant, nor do I have any reason to be arrogant.

Certainly I agree some Christians have a rich and real spiritual life. But like you said, despite certain dogmas...
Wouldn't it be nice if the church were more of a help than a hindrance? The desire to grow spiritually is pretty strong, and one's intuition is always at work, so quite a lot of people do have glimmers and glimpses and breakthroughs - heading upstream all the way. Rowing against the tide.
You can eat nutritious food and it can keep you alive and healthy even if you don't know exactly how it does so and you only know it by name and by it's effectiveness.
It seems like an apt metaphor for a materialist or atheist.

What do you mean that you are looking for new perspectives?
How has all your thoughts/opinions/beliefs effected your daily life?
I rather think that my opinions follow my insights. My daily life took a sharp turn for the better after I experienced God or whatever it was that happened, but not right away. It takes some time. At first, the outer life and inner life were in deep contrast. Two different worlds. But slowly I integrate them.
It's almost as if you've created your own religion based on your search and the sum of it's parts... Is it working for you?
Sure, I guess I have done that, but I don't really see the need for religion. I just look for truth, for greater understanding, wherever I can find it. Some of the Buddhist stuff has been invaluable, although I am not a Buddhist, and no doubt never will be. I no longer require a religion.

I'm not sure what you mean by if it is working. Making me happy? Yes.
If there is "some kind of majesctic mind at work in the universe" then how (if you were that majestic mind) would you try to make yourself known to mankind?
I understood the question as you posed it, but it is difficult to answer because I don't think Jehovah of the Old Testament is God. There are some deep and great sayings, some of them disguised, in the Old Testament, but the Jehovah character is an imposter. There is even a book, called Jehovah Unmasked, that makes quite an impressive case, based all upon scripture itself, that Jehovah is Satan. You should read it. Even without reading or buying, just go to Amazon and look up what people say about it. Now, I found that book a few months ago, but it did not form my opinion which I've held for years, it only surprised me that there is good scholarly reason for my own understanding which was personal opinion - that Jehovah is an imposter and not God.

If I were God of course I would do exactly as God does. God does not hide from man. He is blazing everywhere. We dont see it. God does not use force and is very gentle. When we are ready we will be ready. I don't see any time pressure because I think it is absurd that God would not give us enough time when we obviously are very confused.

You think that God being known to mankind is like a bunch of people reading a book or all belonging to the right religion. It's far more than that. It is a long journey and a long battle. It requires turning yourself inside out.
When you say you just can't figure out how, does that mean you feel you will never figure it out? Or do you accept that you may never know? Do you think it matters? Do you think it's important to decide what you believe (in this area)? Does impending death have any affect on your search or your beliefs? For that matter do you think you need to figure anything out before you die? I know, too many questions:-)

I mean that I don't understand how the mind of God could work when I don't think of God as a personal being. To be a personal being means there is limitation, and God is unlimited. God being unlimited and infinite, he pervades and is in and within, and in fact IS, everything.

It isn't a matter of deciding what to believe. I can only accept what seems to be the most likely way things work, or the most true explanation. It isn't about belief systems.

I assume your questions about death mean whether I fear God will be displeased with me, and that I have to decide about Jesus before I die. I consider that balderdash, and lies of the devil, in order to frighten humans. Fear is never a good thing. Fear decreases consciousness. Fear puts the mind in a state of emergency. No one should make decisions based upon states of emergency. To think that God would pressure people like that means, quite simply, that such a God is a wicked God. The author of fearful scenarios is EVIL. Yet all those Christian tracts have little to say about true spirituality and instead resort to terrible threats. Believe in Jesus right now because you could die tonight and go to hell. Isn't it simple really, to see that only wickedness could hammer upon people's fears like this?

I no more fear God than I fear my next breath.
I've resorted to questions with you because I get the sense that you enjoy having answers or responses that sound good and yet reveal very little about your own beliefs or that don't show very much in the way of human frailty...
You asked me my beliefs and I gave you some. I don't have a lot of beliefs. I work hard at eradicating them.

I do have frailties.
What is your personal reason for writing on this forum?
Fun. Learning. What about you?
Are you looking for something?
Hoping to teach others?
Prove others wrong?
Or are you just exercising?

If I have something to teach, it's good to teach. If someone has something to teach me, I want to learn it. When I talk about Christian dogma, I don't think I am proving you wrong. I don't see you as responsible for Christian dogma. I think that accepting Christian dogma happens as part of a package that seems like the right way to go at the time. It takes advantage of the innate spiritual drive, but holds people back from what they want.
Truth is a pathless land.
reedsch
Posts: 126
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Location: Sai Gon, Viet Nam
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Post by reedsch »

millipodium wrote: You're an idiot. transitions between states are just that: transitions between states. They do not contitute new states.
Which charm school did you graduate from? Please tell me so I don't send my kid there.

Depends on your time frame my tactless compatriot, since nothing happens instantaneously. Also a transition can trigger a subsequent action. Anyway you're probably right though I try to localize my idiocy and not make it a general characteristic (or state, as it were). I just enjoy stirring the pot.

Now, who else can I piss off today...oh, the Christians! I am ready to take off the gloves on this one. I think Jesus came up with a wonderful humanitarian philosophy, but the theology, most of which was coddled together by Saul of Tarsus who never even met Jesus (at least in the flesh), is quite frankly bizarre and rates as scarcely more than mythology. Do we have any takers for theological deconstruction?
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