Russell:
You are still trying to measure consciousness by time.
You are still trying to measure the Totality with your consciousness!
Nope - I am the one that challenged you to demonstrate the measurements of the dimensions of consciousness. You ignored that and now you bring it up as evidence against - it is clearly evidence that the absolute you are looking for is your very own consciousness.
Lets use logic - if consciousness is physical, it must be measurable (as you propose). What are the dimensions? Where does this 'bigger' reality begin and your consciousness end?
If consciousness cannot be measured - using logic - it cannot be a 'thing' as all 'things' can be measured by conceptual means.
All this remains in the realm of the attributable, that is, within the conscious field. It doesn't account for the non-dualistic, formless, unattributable aspect of the Infinite. Where this is no consciousness, there are no electrons, time, energy, particles, etc.
What you don't understand is that consciousness is relativity. You cannot separate these. Consciousness is the existence of "self and other, and cannot be shown to be otherwise.
If there is self/other - again using logic - where does your 'self' begin and end? Where is the line of demarcation? Where does your self end and things, formless and unattributable aspect of the Infinite begin?
If, as you claim, there is a self and other, you must be able to separate them logically as self/other is a logical claim. If you are going to make a logical claim it must be supported by evidence.
Reality is the absence of separation.
*I*/not*I* is a concept that does not exist other than a concept. When the concept *I*/not*I* evaporates so does the separation and the infinite field is manifest as the reality it truly is.
All things - no exception - exist within the field known as consciousness that is interpenetrating 'all things' whether objectively or subjectively. Nothing 'happens' outside.
Being said:
It only appears that there is subject/object because of the hypnotic effect of seeing only the thing being perceived. There is a vast field that is virtually ignored and it is as timeless as cause and effect.
Example:
There is a single space between each word and letter. There is only one space and these words exist within that one space. They appear out of nowhere and we focus on the words and letters and miss the space interpenatrating all things.
When you see that, ex nihilo and duality is resolved. We experince duality because of finite thought or a mode in which we think but your nature of being is nonlocal.
Russell:
Causality alone is fundamental, it alone persists. As stated before, consciousness is demonstrably limited by time and space.
You did not address the point. You just repeated your belief without a single underpinning, example or evidence.
I gave the evidence and logic for my conclusion. What you did was pulled The Wizard of Oz trick - "because I say so and that is that."
If you cannot support your position - it is flawed and that is the great joy of logic in that it rids us of all of our beliefs.
I will repeat my evidence that you apparently skipped over:
Being:
The difference is all things can be measured by empirical or conceptual means. Consciousness is not a 'thing' as it contains all things you can possibly measure. There is not a single exception.
All things are a 'whole' decided on completely by consciousness as a choice within your field of awareness - there is no exception.
Consciousness is 'doing' the measuring and yet it has no physical dimensions because all things you measure are contained by it. You can certainly see the effects of consciousness such as measuring the electrical current strength in the brain but this is true of all things and therefore; all things are the effect of consciousness. Every single thing has an electrical charge that can be measured.
Did you know that at the moment of the sperm penetrating the egg there is an explosion of light and electricity? Your thought is an electromagnetic function.
Beingof1:
Does the brain exist withing the mind or does the mind exist withing the brain?
You can perceive your brain and using logic, therefore; the brain exists within the mind.
Russell:
Yes, the "mind in the brain" is an empirical finding, and the "brain in the mind" is affirmed by logic.
Being:
Not just a deduction from logic but observation as well. The brain is clearly within the mind. There is no scientific/empiracle evidence that can locate the mind within the body because the body is an effect of consciousness.
How far out from your body does your mind stretch?
Russell;
As stated before, consciousness is the experience of "self and other." It is relativity. Empirically, any and every possible experience of consciousness is linked to the existence of a host. There are no mystical experiences, be it astral-projection, out of body, near death, etc. that overturn this.
I did not use a single example of "mystical experiences, be it astral-projection, out of body, near death, etc." - I used logic, pure and simple.
This is the logical fallacy known as the strawman. Now, in all honesty I have used evidence of this nature before but not once in this conversation. In this discussion I am using only what is self evident and logical and you know that is true.
I do not have a bone in my nose and wave a magic wand - well maybe a magic wand but I promise not to use it because that would not be fair :)
You avoided the question - again? I asked "How far out from your body does your mind stretch"?
Are you going to answer this question?
That makes at least two evasions so far.
Being
A point in mathematics is infinite because it is tied to the One space I refered to previously. If you have two points on a piece of paper you have interconnection between these two points as there is no line connecting these two points.
A tangent is the farthest reach of a point for intersecting the infinite. A point or zero is infinite.
http://imgarcade.com/1/internally-tange ... real-life/
You see; to be infinite means there is no event horizon where the information suddenly stops at the train station because the expansion rate of the infinite is identical to the information made available. To be infinite means what was impossible yesterday is possible today.
The infinite is in a constant state of pushing all limits, exceeding all bounds and making impossibilities possible.
Russell:
Again, none of this addresses the formless, unobserved realm, or the "infinite beyond".
Really? I did not talk about "infinite means there is no event horizon" and "The infinite is in a constant state of pushing all limits, exceeding all bounds and making impossibilities possible."
Really? Nothing at all to do with "the formless, unobserved realm, or the "infinite beyond""?
Really? How mystifying...
Russell:
I can accept using the term "amount" in describing the nature of the "infinite within". Beyond consciousness, however, there's nothing that the concept of "amount" can apply to.
Being;
If it is true for one infinity it is true of infinity as there is only one and cannot be another. What you are seeing is the interconnected singular infinity. As I said before, it is thought that is finite.
I only use the word 'amount' for identification not definition.
In order to have reality you must have a system that looks like this:
Actual frequency/information ---> Potential reality ---> Actual modulated reality
Aristotle was right. This is a circle and nonlocal.
Example:
You can have a string of dominoes that have the potential to all fall down but you must have actual energy to push the first. This leads to information and energy or the actual reality out from potential.
What we are measuring is the amount in bits for each dominoe and unless you see the actual frequency, you will result in infinite regression of cause and effect which is not logical.
If you need more clarity on this let me know.
Russell:
Ditto.
The point is if you have infinite potential you never arrive at actual. Cause and effect cannot be the answer logically because you have infinite potential (the dominoe example) strecthing back to infinity which results in infite regression which is not logical.
To answer that cause and effect is the answer for it all is like a Christian fundamentalist that claims the Bible is the word of God.
It goes something like this:
"The Bible is the Word of God."
"How do you know"?
"Because the Bible says so."
"Causality stretches to the infinite."
"How do you know"?
"Because I was caused to say that."
Same answer - same fundamentalist beliefsystem - just different concepts of God
The train has to stop at the station at some point.
I've been describing the nature of the self plenty.
I have seen you say that but again, you provide no evidence.
Demonstrate the "self" please so I know what it is you identify as the "self."
Being:
I would say we have a body but ultimately I am the universe.
Russell:
That's your ego talking!
What would the ego do without the problem of the universe???
One can be at one the Infinite by ceasing clinging to the "world of things".
One cannot be the Infinite because "being" exists only within the realm of relativity.
You sound like me :)
The only reality and infinity is the one you have experinced - this cannot be overturned and is the most pure form of logic.
One is already one with the infinite but the persistent belief in separation has created wars, hate, delusion, sickness, greed and suffering of untold imagination.
The end is just a concept seeded into your mind by society and the belief in self/other.
When it comes to evidence be open to thinking.
When it comes to being be open to infinity.