Thoughts of Suicide

[imbecil]

I am just a worthless liar
I am just an imbecil
I will only complicate you
Trust in me and fall as well
-Tool "Sober"

I was walking in my college library today, and I was overcome with feelings of inadequacy. I'm not the type of person who shows much emotion, but I had to sit down and cry. I felt like a child. Every time I walk into a library, I see hundreds of books I would like to read. I see all kinds of subjects that I wish I knew something about. The only problem is that I am an imbecil, and I have wasted my entire life. I'm 21 years old, and I have nothing to show for it. I have spent my entire life making things easy on myself. I have no education. I dropped out of school in 8th grade. I never even made it to high school. As if that wasn't enough, I never passed a single grade before that. My mother asked on several occasions that I be held back, but they always just passed me along until I reach middle school and they were no longer going to play that game. I never once did my homework. I never had anyone to punish me, to make me get my act together. I have no self discipline.

I have spent most of my life alone, and I have great difficulty speaking to other people. I feel completely worthless. I have no social skills, and although people tell my I am an intelligent person, I can't help but feel that I know less than the average 5th grader. I know nothing of geography, science, philosophy, or history. I am literate, and can speak and write, but I have read less than 5 books my entire life. The last math I remember doing was multiplication of fractions back in 6th grade, which I have even forgotten at this point. I just want to have a normal education. I feel like I have destroyed myself. I feel like there is no place for me to start, and no matter what I do at this point my life while be worthless. If you were in my position, what would you do? I mean, I wish there was a book, "Everything you should know by the time you graduate high school," but there's not. What book should I pick up to restart my education? What is important for everyone to know? What all did I miss? Is this the reason I'm anti-social? Why can't I speak to people? Why do I hate myself?

Sometimes I just want to pick up a history book and begin to read, but I think to myself, what's the point? You don't know anything about it anyway. What about math? Science? Don't you care about those? Are you sure you should start with history? Maybe it's a waste of your time. You're so far behind, you should just kill yourself. You will never amount to anything. You have a hundred books at home that you have bought and never read, if you get this you will never read it either. What about college? You just started that. You haven't done your homework yet, you're not learning much. Maybe you should have taken a course in history. You would probably fail anyway. You always fail. Why do you even bother to get up in the morning. You're and idiot. Nothing here is for you, it's for people that know something. You don't know anything.

I realize my thoughts are very destructive, but I can't help it. It's all I ever do, It's like I love to beat myself up. There have been times when I will spend 3 hours picking the book that I would like to read, and then I take it home and set it on a shelf, never to read it for even 10 minutes. I have started college twice and failed both times with a 0.00 across all three classes. I do well the first week or two, and then I just stop doing my work. I always feel like I should be learning something else because I am so far behind. If I take a history class, I worry about science. I never get anything done, and I have trouble staying focus and getting myself to do any work. I'm currently trying college for the third time, I'm doing extremely well in "Advanced Operating Systems" and "Introduction to Networks," since I have a real interest in these. I think I want to be a Network Administrator when I grow up, but I'm falling behind in English 101 because I haven't been doing my homework. At the moment I feel like I should be learning about science, history, and geography so I don't study for my english. I spend more time feeling stupid than anything else. I just wish I had gone to school and done my best. I just wish I knew what I wanted. I just wish I wasn't and imbecil.

I really needed to rant. I thought maybe someone here might have some advice. Maybe someone can shed light on my crazy thoughts. I think the reason I hate myself is because I don't understand who I am. I waste all my time watching T.V and surfing the internet. I want to study, but I can't motivate myself to do it. I never meet my own expectations for myself. I hate everything I do, and how I spend my time, but I do it every day. I just wish I could force myself to sit down and work hard, but I always put it off until it's too late. I know this sounds stupid, but I've done it my whole life. It's the only habit I have. I avoid work, I avoid life. I sit all alone all day, and my brain rots. Instead of doing something about it, I tell myself it's pointless and that it won't work. That I should do something else. That if I only knew where to start I could do it, but every time I think I've figured it out I change my mind. I start to put myself down, and I just get depressed and do nothing instead.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

If you were in my position, what would you do?

I'd identify myself as overwhelmed and over-stressed, a combination that can lead me to consider suicide the easiest option.

Then, I'd consider other options. One might be breaking the challenge into manageable chunks, so as to no longer be overwhelmed. Then, once I know what to do, I'd take a nice vacation, so as to give myself time to realize that whatever problem it is, it's not so urgent that I can't ignore it and do nothing for a few weeks. (Or, however long as it takes me to stop stressing over academics.)

By the way, it doesn't matter how long you've gone to school, or how much you've done. There's always David Hume. By 25, he'd already changed the face of modern philosophy. Anytime you think you've fallen behind, just compare everyone else to David Hume. Then you'll realize that you've all fallen behind.

[CultOfByron]

Sounds very much like my own thoughts. I too have shelves of books that are basically a reference library, I do occasionally muster the motivation to plough through but I can only really keep it up with good fiction.

Have you considered audio books? I work the night shift at a local supermarket ... so I can just switch my embodied self off for nine hours a night and immerse myself in The Teaching Company's Philosophy back catalogue! It really has helped and I feel that I am getting a grasp of concepts that eluded my somewhat through my degree years and subsequently.

It's hard but it's doable. I suppose listening to audio books and lectures bypasses the whole willpower/motivation issue and I'm forcing the ideas into my skull, but so far as this works I'm willing to 'go along' with it.

Look into how to cultivate your own will and/or motivation - if you are surfing alot then use the internet in the way that many SHOULD use it but don't - as a vast source of information.

It's also important to really try to make that choice as to what, out of all the things you want to do, is more important to you than the rest. Then learn to say goodbye to it, or at least au revoir. The complex nature of contemporary (over?)specialisation means that in order to FEEL like you have achieved in any particular field, you need to apply a kind of Occam's Razor (if this is the right analogy) to your choices. This is not entirely fair however, and I do believe a holistic approach is important to counter the narrow specialisations that the college/university system imposes.

I recommend the work of Friedrich Nietzsche and some of the existentialists (I haven't looked at all of them) as 'guides' for how to form your own life 'project'.

[DHodges]

See a psychiatrist.

You should be able to get some medication that will help you with the depression, which should also help with getting motivated to actually do things.

[Alex Jacob]

Vote for Obama.
See a psychiatrist or therapist. Really, you need someone to talk to, so does everyone.
Avoid drugs, anti-depressants, etc.
Go on long walks in nature. Bathe in cold water of rivers and streams.
Get a girlfriend.
Eat a TeeVee dinner by the swimming pool and thank your lucky stars you got to incarnate on this planet.
Pray.

[Shahrazad]

Alex,

Eat a TeeVee dinner by the swimming pool and thank your lucky stars you got to incarnate on this planet.

Why? What is there in his life that he can be thankful for?

I'm not saying there isn't such a thing, but don't assume it is obvious, because some of us don't see it.


Imbecil,

IMO, you're going to have to go on anti-depressant drugs. After you pull yourself out of the depression, you'll see clearly what you have to do with your life. There's no way you're going to see it right now.

[Remo]

You are trapped in reflection.

Are you constantly "in your head," ruminating over past situations and worrying about the future? Read on for some helpful tips for overthinkers.

If you find yourself constantly overanalyzing life you aren't just hurting your mental health, but you could be compromising your physical health as well. Studies at the University of California, San Diego found that people who think too much could be in danger of weaker immune systems, depression, and higher blood pressure and heart rates. Take steps to slow down the thoughts and gain control of your life.

1. Overthinking isn't Helping
Realize that repetitive thoughts are not going to change the situation. In Susan Nolen-Hoeksema's book, Women Who Think Too Much: How to Break Free of Overthinking and Reclaim Your Life [ Henry Holt and Co., 2004], she says the first step is to realize that overthinking is a destructive behavior. Dwelling on circumstances, past or future, keeps you stuck in the very situation that is bringing you so much anxiety.

2. Free Your Mind through Distraction
Nolen-Hoeksema's research discovered that distracting overthinkers, even for just 8 minutes, provided relief from repetitive thoughts and lifted their spirits. When you feel the "thought mill" take over, try engaging in a healthy distraction to take your mind off the obsessive point of focus.

3. Clear Your Head with Meditation
The benefits of meditation have been proclaimed for many years. Author and meditation expert, Sakyong Mipham speaks to the positive results of meditation in his book, Ruling Your World [Broadway, 2005]. He says that meditation helps familiarize individuals with letting go; thoughts come up and are released during meditation. This process can be helpful in other aspects of life. Visit Mindtools.com for simple instructions on how to meditate. Even just 10 minutes a day can help.

4. Thoughts are Just Thoughts
When your mind is going 90 to nothing, it helps to take a step back and realize that you are giving up control to your head.

In bestselling author and therapist, Richard Carlson's book, You Can Be Happy No Matter What: Five Principles Your Therapist Never Told You, he suggests reminding yourself that a "'thought' is an impersonal element of our existence." Try considering thoughts from a more detached scientific view-- thoughts are just a product of mental activity generated by an organ (the brain). This might help you gain more control over them.

5. Positive Thinking
It sounds corny, but if you are going to ruminate, try thinking about the positive aspects of your life. Most overthinkers are turning negative thoughts over and over again in their head. When your thoughts turn to the negatives in your life, try to focus on the positive. Replacing those thoughts with constructive ones can do wonders for your psyche.

Don't let your thoughts get the best of you. If you are a chronic overthinker start taking steps today to break the cycle.

Observations from overthinkers

ruminating over what I should have done
ruminating over what I should do
ruminating over what I will do

It's as if i am addicted to thinking about random stuff, i can never have a clear mind.

My mind is constantly going a million miles a minute, and there isnt really a way for me to turn it off, except when i'm sleeping. I can even be getting an hour long massage and i cant totally relax because my mind is still at full throttle.

The biggest problem with overthinking is that it leaves you feeling exausted and because of this everything seems insurmountable.

There appears to be a link between overthinking , ADD/ADHD, and OCD, therapies for ADD/ADHD,and OCD often work with overthinkers, as a med Ritalin is effective for some people, but at its core you need to keep yourself occupied, I'm sure you feel overwhelmed by having to do pretty much anything so you avoid work, chores, even fun activities all because your too busy in your head, but take a second to think about all those things, haven't you noticed when your mind is fully occupied with a task or situation you literally forget yourself and are free? Basically you have to flood your mind ,so its just reacting to whats going on, instead of ruminating.

When you feel your thoughts spiralling out of control, say to yourself out loud "Stop!" Then do something that fully occupies your mind for at least 3 minutes, studies have shown that this breaks the pattern of your thoughts and lets you release whatever you were obsessing about. For example just grabbing the nearest magazine and randomly read out loud an article for 3 minutes, just reading it isn't enough, by reading out loud your multitasking and running your CPU/brain high enough that your brain is forced to let go of the overthinking to deal with the situation at hand.

Bottom line you have to keep yourself distracted by the real world doing things, and avoid the security that comes from living in your mind.

Nothing good comes from boredom.

It's said that idle hands are the devil's workshop

An old saying dating at least as far back as Chaucer in the twelfth century. This saying is an observation that when one is left to his own devises, one will usually find something negative to do, thinking included.

a cognitive therapist can help a lot.

Hope this helps, despite as you mentioned your lack of education, your writing and thoughts tell me your anything but an imbecile. And at 21 your life is just beginning, don't count yourself out, get help, this is surmountable, don't lose out on all the experiences and happiness that await you, just to stop feeling this way.

[brokenhead]

Alex,

Eat a TeeVee dinner by the swimming pool and thank your lucky stars you got to incarnate on this planet.

Why? What is there in his life that he can be thankful for?

I'm not saying there isn't such a thing, but don't assume it is obvious, because some of us don't see it.


Imbecil,

IMO, you're going to have to go on anti-depressant drugs. After you pull yourself out of the depression, you'll see clearly what you have to do with your life. There's no way you're going to see it right now.

Imbecil

I second Shah's recommendation, just from my own life experience. The antidepressant drugs start off for a few weeks making you feel a little tired, and maybe thirsty and a little "off." After that, those effects disappear and you think the drug is not doing anything.

But you'll notice that the world around you gradually changes in subtle ways. You will stick to a task a bit longer, and then a bit longer, than before, and then results of your efforts start trickling in, and then becoming more regular. You won't be as easily discouraged by things, almost as if the world is being a little nicer to you. And it is, because you have begun to be nicer to it, and to yourself.

All this must be done under a doctor's supervision, to find the right ramp up regimen and the proper drug. I am talking about the Effexor and Zoloft type of drugs, which are non habit-forming and really quite subtle.

It's not a cure all, but it has been a valuable jump-start for me in the past. Eventually, I was able to go off it because I had substituted beneficial routines for no routines or negative ones.

And remember, there is no such thing as permanent. You will learn not to envy others and give yourself aliases like "imbecil." You may find that the difference you see between yourself and others is rather in your own mind, and it is holding you back. You feel a huge weight on your shoulders, the weight of your lifetime. But really, if you learn the small but important art of taking it one day at a time, you will notice things vastly differently. One day at a time - it's all anyone ever really gets.

The thoughts of suicide will abate enough to let you breathe more easily.

Like Shah said - you have to ask for help. Keep asking until you get it. You know something is wrong. Now you have to make others who can help you aware of it, too.

The modern depression drugs cannot work miracles, or so the doctors will keep telling you. But if you begin to wake up and look forward to the day for long stretches at a time, you might start to wonder if they may be mistaken.

Remember, if it's really this bad, it can only get better - but it can't start to do that if you decide to turn out the big light.

Meantime, cheers
and really all the best in the coming days and weeks.

[DHodges]

But you'll notice that the world around you gradually changes in subtle ways. You will stick to a task a bit longer, and then a bit longer, than before, and then results of your efforts start trickling in, and then becoming more regular. You won't be as easily discouraged by things, almost as if the world is being a little nicer to you. And it is, because you have begun to be nicer to it, and to yourself.

Yeah, this is really interesting to me - it seems like the world is a better place, it doesn't seem like you are doing much different. Things just don't seem to go wrong as much.

[Shahrazad]

Attitude makes the difference between living in heaven or in hell.

What the anti-depressants did for me was change my attitude, very drastically. I was unable to have painful thoughts. Life seemed like a bowl of cherries, no matter how much tragedy there was. I just didn't give a shit about anything.

Before taking the drugs, my depression was so deep, and so debilitating, that when I finally came out, I felt like I had died and was given a second chance to live. I learned to find pleasure in the smallest things. And this new high never did wear off -- it's been 13 years, and I still feel like I'm the luckiest person on the planet, though admittedly I have my bad moments.

Imbecil, when you are feeling miserable, think about this: chances are you will learn how to cope, and there could be a time in your future when your life will be extremely enjoyable. It is worth staying around just to see that.

[maestro]

What the anti-depressants did for me was change my attitude, very drastically. I was unable to have painful thoughts. Life seemed like a bowl of cherries, no matter how much tragedy there was. I just didn't give a shit about anything.

Before taking the drugs, my depression was so deep, and so debilitating, that when I finally came out, I felt like I had died and was given a second chance to live. I learned to find pleasure in the smallest things. And this new high never did wear off -- it's been 13 years, and I still feel like I'm the luckiest person on the planet, though admittedly I have my bad moments.

Sher, does your body become habituated to these drugs so that the dosage has to be increased forever, or do these drugs rewire your system for good.

On a related note, mindfulness is essentially rewiring of the body and mind, through attention. Though pretty slow, this has the advantage that the gains in well being are permanent and build upon themselves.

[brokenhead]

Sher, does your body become habituated to these drugs so that the dosage has to be increased forever, or do these drugs rewire your system for good.

Let me field that one, maestro.

It depends on the drug. For Zoloft and Effexor at least, the mild negative side effects go away after a month or two, and the subtle good effects begin. So your body is obviously adjusting in some way.

When you go off the drug, you must be ramped-down, as sudden changes in your brain chemistry can be somewhat dangerous.

I think the brain is not chemically rewired as such. I think your behavioral patterns have shifted, as Dave has observed. When you treat the world differently, it treats you differently. You no longer react in a defeatist way automatically. You have built up a body of memories to compare to your previous automatic self-defeating actions. People can tell you better ways to cope, but the drugs help you see for yourself.

For me, now off them for over a year, I notice that I am off them. The negative effects - such as difficulty in sexual activity - are gone, but I feel more in tune with painful - and joyful - things in life. It's like before, but the cycle of depression has been broken. It doesn't feel as if it is going to come back.

In this way, it does seem as your behavior has been rewired, but I think is is just that - behavioral rather than chemical. And your behavior can affect your brain chemistry as well as the other way around.

I am curious to hear Shah's reply as well. Shah?

[Shahrazad]

Maestro,

Sher, does your body become habituated to these drugs so that the dosage has to be increased forever, or do these drugs rewire your system for good.

No and no. They don't rewire you for good, but for long enough for you to step out of the deep pit you created for yourself. Then, you can lower the dosage gradually, until you wean yourself completely.

IMO, my case isn't really typical, because I have a chemical imbalance that makes me vulnerable to depression in times of stress. The more the stress I expose myself to, the more resources (neurotransmitters) my brain consumes, and the weaker and sicker I get (ADD kicks in, and even OCD). So, after I weaned myself, I was ok until the next stress crisis hit. Eventually I decided to take the drug permanently, with a lower dosage and without increasing it. But I am not recommending the readers to try this at home.

After I figured out that stress is what messes me up, I consciously changed the way that I live. A stress-free life is a very high priority for me, at the expense of everything else. For example, getting up early every day and driving in traffic to work stresses me out. So I now have a job that allows me to work from home, and I take about three vacations per year. I also work at something that I enjoy, so work-related stress is very low.

On a related note, mindfulness is essentially rewiring of the body and mind, through attention. Though pretty slow, this has the advantage that the gains in well being are permanent and build upon themselves.

This works too, when the person is reasonably well. I get the feeling imbecil is in real deep shit, and does not have the strength to rewire his own brain through his own constant effort. Keep in mind that when a person is depressed, they do not have the strength to fight.

[Tomas]

.

Hey, Bim.

We have a son the same age as you .. he's 21, still in a funk, and doesn't have a direction yet, he wants to pursue. We did what we could .. but .. you know, he has to summon 'his inner strengths' in whatever manner as we all must individually, do. Three of our six-adult kids graduated Ivy League .. but at the end of the day .. they-all gotta survive on their own. It's a lonely road but humanity has made it thus far...

----------------------------------------

Just raised what thought were your greatest concerns. Check out the below site :-)

-Bim-
I was walking in my college library today, and I was overcome with feelings of inadequacy. I'm not the type of person who shows much emotion, but I had to sit down and cry. I felt like a child. I'm 21 years old, and I have nothing to show for it. I have spent my entire life making things easy on myself. I never had anyone to punish me, to make me get my act together. I have no self discipline.

I have spent most of my life alone, and I have great difficulty speaking to other people. I feel completely worthless. What is important for everyone to know? What all did I miss? Is this the reason I'm anti-social? Why can't I speak to people? Why do I hate myself?

I realize my thoughts are very destructive, but I can't help it. It's all I ever do, It's like I love to beat myself up. I'm currently trying college for the third time, I'm doing extremely well in "Advanced Operating Systems" and "Introduction to Networks," since I have a real interest in these.

I thought maybe someone here might have some advice. Maybe someone can shed light on my crazy thoughts. I think the reason I hate myself is because I don't understand who I am.

-------------------------------

Depressed astronauts might get computerized solace

-snips-

The recording helps astronauts identify reasons for their depression. Then the program helps them make a plan to fight the depression, based on the descriptions the astronauts type in about their problems.

Twenty-nine current and former astronauts have been consulted for the project.

In 1985, a mission on Russia's Salyut 7 space station was scrapped after colleagues noticed the commander seemed uninterested in the work and spent hours looking out portholes.

"Virtual Space Station"
Dartmouth psychologist Dr. Mark Hegel is working on a computer program that will guide astronauts through treatment for depression and other problems while in space. (see photo of him)

-Click URL for complete article-

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081025/D941E33G0.html


.

[maestro]

Sher,

No and no. They don't rewire you for good, but for long enough for you to step out of the deep pit you created for yourself. Then, you can lower the dosage gradually, until you wean yourself completely.

So they provide a temporary respite and you may rewire your behavior within that brief period.

I think this is the way that drugs should be used: as a temporary haven against overwhelming dysfunctional patterns. However, It seems to me that psychiatrists nowadays just want to keep people on drugs forever.

Broken:

In this way, it does seem as your behavior has been rewired, but I think is is just that - behavioral rather than chemical. And your behavior can affect your brain chemistry as well as the other way around.

I think, that most of our ways of thinking and doing are just deeply habitual, or wired. These wirings are stabilized through a chemical system of feedback and reinforcement. It seems that the drug disables some dysfunctional energy sucking wirings, which would then allow the organism to have more behavioral freedom and form new wiring.

[Remo]

i hope our friend here is doing well, as he has not visited us since posting this.... the only reply he read was trevor's.

[Shahrazad]

I hope he's not a hit-and-runner.

[Tomas]

I hope he's not a hit-and-runner.

I dunno, half of you folks have already prescribed him anti-depressants.

Nemo mistakenly thinks he's only read Trevors..?

With one (1) post, how would Nemo now?

PS - What, Nemo is now your best buddy.? he's been here all of 12 days..

Let's hope you all have something better to do than place a 21-year-old on drugs...



.

[Remo]

Tomas try hitting his profile button... i agree though, drugs are bad, last resort.

A day that goes by without learning something is a wasted day.

[Shahrazad]

Tomas,

PS - What, Nemo is now your best buddy.? he's been here all of 12 days..

I'm interesting in knowing what made you say that. Have I said something improper to Nemo?

Let's hope you all have something better to do than place a 21-year-old on drugs...

I always seem to make time to try to help any person who is going through a clinical depression, by sharing my experiences. If throughout all these years, I can help a single depressed person ease their pain, it will have been worth all the time I've devoted to this cause.

[Remo]

you dared to share a book title with me... :D

[Shahrazad]

And that was only after you had already mentioned Perkins and his book.

[Alex Jacob]

I admit I do make certain judgments about people who use these sort of drugs, and who recommend them. I think they should be considered the absolute last resort, and the fact that millions of people are taking them seems questionable and dangerous. But I don't want to appear disrespectful of those who have determined they need them.

Thinking about it, I realized that I used doses of psychedelics---mostly mushrooms and peyote but also other plants little-known that are not even illegal---to achieve what Broken and Shar achieved through the use of these anti-depressants: to gain a perspective on existence, to be shown alternatives to certain mental habits and pitfalls and to be presented with alternatives.

A great deal hinges, I think, on 'spiritual life'. Mental disease or well-being. When I was Imbecile's age ('when I was a young imbecile') I had the good fortune of meeting a healer and curandero who taught me about the use of nature to effect psychological cures. The old practice of ritual purification in water, the releasing of mental, physical and spiritual blocks back into nature (energetic recycling), and of course prayer and other sorts of practices. But the ideas that support these things as ways of healing, as ways of living, are dying, and people have lost their contact with the earth---with the forest with the sea with the sky---so, yes. what is left for them in the dreary, pained cities are little mind-altering pills fabricated by giant pharmaceutical conglomerates. If one cannot define a pathway to healing and to well-being, if you have lost the way so to speak, then there is, I suppose, no alternative.

Living is a risk, and madness and real, bottomless distress and illness is not at all an improbable outcome of being alive. A sane and balanced social structure should have something to say about this, and should guide a young person to health, connectedness and well-being. All of us know that our social structures no longer do this, or if they do it is an exception to the rule. In short, the culture goes mad and people go mad with it.

How one rediscovers the path to balance, service, connectedness and spirituality---in short, life---is of course the age-old question.

Very, very few ever really seem to speak about this (I mean in the culture at large).

[Shahrazad]

Alex,

You didn't even bother to answer the direct question I asked you.

I admit I do make certain judgments about people who use these sort of drugs, and who recommend them.

Really? And I was SO looking forward to your approval so that I can feel validated. I mean, living in depression hell is such a small price to pay compared to obtaining your holy approval.

Thinking about it, I realized that I used doses of psychedelics---mostly mushrooms and peyote but also other plants little-known that are not even illegal---to achieve what Broken and Shar achieved through the use of these anti-depressants: to gain a perspective on existence, to be shown alternatives to certain mental habits and pitfalls and to be presented with alternatives.

I have never tried any type of recreational drugs, not even when it was very fashionable to do so, and not even for curiosity. But you're the goody two shoes.

I admit I do make certain judgments about people who use these sort of drugs, and who recommend them.

Right, recreational drugs are a far more respectable and dignified solution.

[Alex Jacob]

You misunderstand. I said I had these prejudices as a way of confession, if you will, of a fault. Or rather, a prejudice. I wasn't trying to validate the prejudice.

But I did go on to share my personal views on the issue of mental health, which is a fair thing to do on a forum of this sort. I wasn't at all offering or withholding approval. What you or anyone does with their life is, if the truth be told, of next to no importance or relevance for me personally. I have no stake in it.

And trust me when I speak of the use of a psychedelic in the correct circumstance, and with respect for the plant and one's own self: there isn't anything 'recreational' about it. It is usually real psychic work and nothing to mess around with.

"Right, recreational drugs are a far more respectable and dignified solution."

Again, you have misunderstood because you thought I was judging you in a personal sense. I am only offering a counterpoint to your advice to Imbecil, another way to examine things, and another possible avenue to pursue. You wouldn't know anything about ritual use of psychedelics because you have never used them in that way, but others here do know about them, and can at least understand what sort of inner processes they provoke.

As far as these drugs (anti-depressants, etc.) being a 'dignified solution', I would be able to say something about this because my younger sister has been using these drugs for about 10 years, and I have watched her personality and her intelligence slowly decline. I am not sure personally if that is a 'dignified' result. She is not all there.

I hope I have clarified myself for you a little more.

[The origin of Goody Two Shoes.]

PS: I didn't answer your 'question' because it is a classical empty question. It is the sort of question one is not really supposed to answer, because it is really your own statement about what you think or believe. You do see that, right?