Yes, that's true. But at the same time, the dualistic idea of "letting go of the finite" also has to be abandoned. Otherwise, you will end up making the mistake of clinging to the dualistic realm of purposelessness. Only when you are free of all dualities can you begin to safely take hold of the finite again.Pam Seeback wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:28 amThe higher perspective than the above account of man AND God is the perspective that there is no way to separate the absolute (the infinite causality) and its consciousness of its relativity of caused effects. In other words, there is no such awareness as formlessness. Which means there is always value present, i.e., to be conscious of form is, by default, to value form/to value Oneself. Your view of God AND man is valid vis a vis the realm of having to separate God from Himself so as to realize Himself, but once realized, the subtle duality of God AND disappears, as does the dualistic idea of 'grasping hold of the finite.'David Quinn: Kierkegaard also spoke about the limitations of formlessness. He spoke about the knight of infinite resignation, for example. The knight of infinite resignation is someone who understands that, from the absolute point of view, nothing has value, and he gives himself over to this understanding by renouncing everything in this world, including everything in his own life. But that's not the end of the story. As Kierkegaard goes on to say, there is someone who is even greater than the knight of infinite resignation - namely, the man of faith. The man of faith is someone who, after abandoning everything in a great act of renunciation, reintegrates into the world by grasping hold of the finite "on the strength of the absurd".
This reminds me of a Zen story:
Master Nansen was washing his clothes. A monk asked "Is the Master still
doing such things?". Master Nansen, holding up his clothes, asked "What is to
be done with them".
Yes, so the knight of infinite resignation is still fundamentally deluded by the belief that some kind of transformation is about to take place. It is only when he finally renounces even this that the transformation can begin to occur.Pam Seeback wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:28 amFrom the perspective of (the Son of) Man as the conscious infinite causality valuing/loving itself, it is irrational to 'wait to be filled' because, of course, it was never without form.In other words, he begins to value things again. He begins to have a purpose in the world again. The man of faith is a God-filled man who strides the world with purpose, while the knight of infinite resignation is still just an aimless ascetic, an empty vessel, waiting passively for God to fill him.
It's called passion.Pam Seeback wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:28 amIt is true that God realization is dependent on sentience and that to ensure the continuum of the causality of sentience is in God's best interest, but is it in God's best interest (or logical) to hate or be appalled by any of its/his sentient formations, i.e., God-as-Trump, God-as-the forum members?I have explained many times over the years that my goal in life is the survival of wisdom. And for that goal to be facilitated, we need the continued existence of intelligent, sentient beings, such as those few that can be found within the human race. Thus, the human race needs to continue. Thus, we need to protect the environmental support systems upon which the human race relies. Thus my alarm at not only the precarious state of these environmental support systems, but also at the sheer indifference to this emergency by such large sections of the community, including, appallingly, by senior members of this forum.
Jesus displayed it when he said to the Pharisees, ""Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.".
Or when Hakuin spoke about the deluded Zen monks of his era:
I know that I can come across as being somewhat intense at times, but really what I display here is just a tiny fraction of the sheer intensity of will that I direct inwardly to the task of entering nirvana on a daily basis. That single-minded, full-on, take-no-prisoners, unobstructed flow of inner force is what is needed if a person wants to access that sublime realm of enlightenment. In the face of this, the rules of proprietary sometimes have to take a back seat.Hakuin wrote:Recently, however, even within Zen, priests have appeared who do nothing but sit like lifeless wooden blocks, 'silently illuminating' themselves. And beyond that, what do you suppose they regard as their most urgent business? Well they prattle about 'doing nothing' being the 'man of true nobility' (quotations from Rinzai) and with that, they are content to feed themselves and pass day after day in a state of seated sleep.
I have made a verse to pour scorn on this odious race of pseudo-priests:
What's earth's foulest thing, from which all men recoil?
Charcoal that crumbles? Firewood that's wet? Watered lamp oil?
A cartman? A boatman? A second wife? Skunks?
Mosquitoes? Lice? Blue flies? Rats? Thieving monks!
Ahh! Monks! Priests! You are thieving brigands, every one of you. When I say brigand priest, I mean the 'silent illumination Zennists' who now infest the land.