The social justice wars

[jupiviv]

Hi Jup still there hanging on!

Life is empty without moar scenes of dragongirl exchanging significant looks with her boytoys. However, Marianne Wilson has more or less filled that void. She is, to paraphrase Jung, my new Anima Woman. And also new Dragongirl, and also new Mammy.

It's about whether Ben Shapiro holds racist views despite being the target of racist accusations. Shapiro being the target of racist insults/accusations does not erase or vindicate Shapiro's own demonstrable racist views.
The charge of racism may not apply to the average conservative globally but it does to a significant minority of them in the US, i.e. much of the Trumptopian base, which is also the mainstream Republican base. It applies overwhelmingly to internet-obsessed conservatives/rightists.

Yeah what's next, calling Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi racists as well or at least "enabling the racist system"....?

I don't know who calls Pelosi racist (or why) but Biden supported racialist policies and hasn't apologised for doing so, so is in fact a racist. It is possible he lied about supporting them, perhaps to further his career. In any case, are you implying democrat politicians cannot be racist?

And so, yes, in any hysterical or deranged system, the next level can be predicted easily, since there's no well defined starting place, the process is driven by simple power dynamics and underneath that, like all power dynamics, the will to destroy as much as to create, control or dominate. In the current state of things, the racial charging is a destructive, nihilistic act, one which has infected political discourse for the simple reason the political discourse, and ideologies, have been rotting for decades.

Racism can coincide with many worldviews, and can be justified in many different ways. How is the acknowledgment of that fact destructive or nihilistic?

This was about the points made in the article, not just about Shapiro. Although it's still a mystery to me on what exactly the racist charges are based on. Let alone "alt-right". Perhaps I don't know enough about this guy beyond being Islamophobic (like many conservative Jews) and opinionated with regards the transgender issue, which are all other things, so I really wouldn't know what you're referring to here.

Transgender issues may be irrelevant but not Islamophobia within a western context, for reasons already stated. More to the point, I rewatched the interview linked by David. Ben Shapiro's version of Islamophobia is quite evidently racist.

... for growing numbers of people politics can no longer convincingly attach itself to increases in prosperity/living conditions (because they aren't happening). Some of them fear losing what they have, some have actually lost something and most will remain with nothing in the future.

That's all we need to realize, really and apply it thoroughly on what is written and said these days by all too many in the public discourse.

I wouldn't say it's all we need to realise but the causation is either willfully ignored or distorted to fit various (mostly right wing) agendas in both main and alt public discourse. Instead there is a fixation on "really bad" people, religions, ideas etc., albeit within different partisan contexts.

Be that as it may, it is precisely a genuine Marxist/materialist analysis which reveals how silly all of this obtuse posturing about the dangerous erasure of barriers between various points in political spectra really is. The alt-rightist is a far cry from the typical 21st c "family values but also women with bikinis and careers unlike those Muslim barbarians regardless of skin colour" cuckservative only if one is primarily concerned with the fuzzy emotional associations each approach evokes. As opposed to the material reality of human lives. An 8chan or killstream manosphere white supremacist is ultimately just Mill, Bernays, Buchanan, Buckley, McCain, Maher & Cheney being thoroughly honest with themselves.

A politics which is supposed to remain humane, moderate and respectful whilst preserving the intersecting (sorry) structures of domination which rip resources from the earth and labor from the oppressed and pile up their fruits in the coffers of the elite was *always* deeply contradictory. In a world where Western labor aristocracies are being immiserated and ever-more-expensive resource acquisition spurs a panicky and ruthless imperialism, those contradictions can no longer hold. The Prince of mainstream Conservatism is quite naturally starting to resemble the Frog.

But insight in what "follows next" is key, as it's where the prophet and the power can be found, if so desired: to be on top of that.

Jupithustra's vision of 2020:

Bernie: OK guys I've won. Time to implement my plan to break up every major financial institution into smaller banks. Trump's election has proven that right wing pariah POTUSes can be elected by "the people" and then defy de rigueur unspoken codes of conduct to get his way and offend teh liberals. Obviously that also applies to slightly centre-left, somewhat genuinely well-intentioned POTUSes like me. After all, the SJW deep-state hates both left and right -wing populism. Anyway, I'll just pass this bill through congress.

Congress: Yes, we will quickly pass this bill. We may not all be fans of yours but we definitely agree we should take on the combined might of US finance capital.

Wall St: Well, the bill passed, and I think we've all learned a valuable lesson about democracy and not privileging the 0.000000001% over the "working class" who all share the same interests, for the most part. Socialism is coming back folks, whether we like it or not. Oh, we lost trillions in investments? Well, that's life. Fortunately our indefinite debt-fuelled economic expansion is not what has kept the economy from crashing since 2008. The democratic will of the people says that we should reconfigure the system to be less phony, ruthless and unfair for everyone, so we can and will do so.

Insurance Companies: Oh look he has socialised health insurance now. Our entire industry is closing down. But we are just useless parasites and not really connected to the rest of the economy in any meaningful way. By the way, we'll have to make the transition as easy as possible for patients, since it's the right thing to do.

Doctors: The government directly employs us now, which is great since we went into this profession to heal the sick, not make millions tightening women's neck skin.

democratic socialists of america: wow its great to be wallowing in nostalgic 50s usa white leftism instead of 80s usa reaganism all we needed to do was reject nonsense identity politics about black lesbian ceos racism wouldn't exist if people had more free stuff you cant have a functioning economy without free stuff because of 2008 banks quantitative easing and also look at those nice countries in urop anyway lets move on to diverting the military budget towards more free stuff because it is useless and doesnt in any way maintain americas privileged position in the world kk thx bye

And so here we are. If wisdom doesn't suffer at the hands of the world it becomes feckless and senile, a tasteless parody of itself. What is eternally young in us is also that which suffers eternally. It is born anew and experiences anew the agony of birth in every moment, but it cannot live. It is the old, not the young, who desire more life.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

However, Marianne Wilson has more or less filled that void. She is, to paraphrase Jung, my new Anima Woman. And also new Dragongirl, and also new Mammy.

For some reason it's being stressed that Rainn Wilson of “The Office” fame (Dwight Schrute) contributed $500 to her 2014 congressional campaign...

I don't know who calls Pelosi racist (or why) but Biden supported racialist policies and hasn't apologised for doing so, so is in fact a racist. It is possible he lied about supporting them, perhaps to further his career. In any case, are you implying democrat politicians cannot be racist?

At this stage, we need to all start becoming more comfortably being called a racist. The Biden thing reads like utter nonsense and political spin. But what's not like that these days? Cultural hysteria is nervously rushing to its end: anxious, forceful, overhasty: like a river, afraid to reflect. There's beauty and violence in it. Majestic bubbles of wisdom could still spat from it! Sometimes I wish I still had talent to enjoy such ride, some glee left.

Racism can coincide with many worldviews, and can be justified in many different ways. How is the acknowledgment of that fact destructive or nihilistic?

It's really not a thing, it's completely imagery in the context. And that makes the repeat and stressing turn so destructive and mind numbing. Now that might actually hint at some purpose after all, no matter how crude. It dulls what desires to be dulled, it eradicated what is desired to be eradicated.

Ben Shapiro's version of Islamophobia is quite evidently racist.

And it was so obvious you could not spend one sentence simply highlighting that! Not very encouraging in how evident it really was...

A politics which is supposed to remain humane, moderate and respectful whilst preserving the intersecting (sorry) structures of domination which rip resources from the earth and labor from the oppressed and pile up their fruits in the coffers of the elite was *always* deeply contradictory.

However it's not clear any other route was viable to get anywhere. There's absolutely no firm reason to state that cruelty and oppression would not work to get certain things done in a give context. Or that alternatives were available. That's why backtracking and judging history seems indeed a twisted denial of what we are or at least our full roots, our causality and the ugliness still there in the mirror. It needs to be fully understood, not simply "fixed". Hell, nowadays 99% of the people have absolutely no clue how the Holocaust or Holodomor could happen. What enabled all that.

In a world where Western labor aristocracies are being immiserated and ever-more-expensive resource acquisition spurs a panicky and ruthless imperialism, those contradictions can no longer hold.

We might need new ones then! Big juicy more hidden ones.

And so here we are. If wisdom doesn't suffer at the hands of the world it becomes feckless and senile, a tasteless parody of itself. What is eternally young in us is also that which suffers eternally. It is born anew and experiences anew the agony of birth in every moment, but it cannot live.

Now you're cooking!

It is the old, not the young, who desire more life.

Desire and life are not that distinct. The elderly seem to start to desire desire as it needs more foolishness to fall into such.

[jupiviv]

I don't know who calls Pelosi racist (or why) but Biden supported racialist policies and hasn't apologised for doing so, so is in fact a racist. It is possible he lied about supporting them, perhaps to further his career. In any case, are you implying democrat politicians cannot be racist?

At this stage, we need to all start becoming more comfortably being called a racist. The Biden thing reads like utter nonsense and political spin. But what's not like that these days? Cultural hysteria is nervously rushing to its end: anxious, forceful, overhasty: like a river, afraid to reflect. There's beauty and violence in it. Majestic bubbles of wisdom could still spat from it! Sometimes I wish I still had talent to enjoy such ride, some glee left.

Pointing out Biden's documented support for racialist policies and politicians is just SJW nonsense! Get a grip.

Racism can coincide with many worldviews, and can be justified in many different ways. How is the acknowledgment of that fact destructive or nihilistic?

It's really not a thing, it's completely imagery in the context. And that makes the repeat and stressing turn so destructive and mind numbing. Now that might actually hint at some purpose after all, no matter how crude. It dulls what desires to be dulled, it eradicated what is desired to be eradicated.

Ironically, instead of judging accusations of racism by the "content of their character" you are being hysterical about their supposed destructive power and role in creating mass hysteria. All of your attempts at arguing whatever your actual point (if any) about racism is, boil down to If [STRAWMAN] then why not also [RED HERRING]? Could it be that [NON-SEQUITUR]?

Ben Shapiro's version of Islamophobia is quite evidently racist.

And it was so obvious you could not spend one sentence simply highlighting that! Not very encouraging in how evident it really was...

Ummm maybe watch the video? I'm not going to waste time researching Shapiro's racism beyond what was referenced there.

A politics which is supposed to remain humane, moderate and respectful whilst preserving the intersecting (sorry) structures of domination which rip resources from the earth and labor from the oppressed and pile up their fruits in the coffers of the elite was *always* deeply contradictory.

However it's not clear any other route was viable to get anywhere. There's absolutely no firm reason to state that cruelty and oppression would not work to get certain things done in a give context. Or that alternatives were available.

That is my point. All of human civilisation has been founded on ruthess and systematic oppression, unequal exchange etc. Modernity ramped that up to insane, unsustainable levels but was also able/obliged to distributed its rewards amongst a much higher % of the industrial/capitalist empire's Patrimonium Petri for a while.

Also, that is why it chaps my balls to see people who claim to be unconditionally committed to furthering rationality ignore the superficiality and cynicism underpinning modernity's version of it. Or conversely, make that same superficiality into a premise for new agey obscurantist devil worship.

In a world where Western labor aristocracies are being immiserated and ever-more-expensive resource acquisition spurs a panicky and ruthless imperialism, those contradictions can no longer hold.

We might need new ones then! Big juicy more hidden ones.

First as tragedy, then as meme. In any case, not enough surplus explosive force as the first one. The new ones all boil down to "brutally honest" appraisals of high fantasy -influenced evil-tainted stand-ins for reality, followed by customised blueprints for restructure/reconfiguration/reproduction.

It is the old, not the young, who desire more life.

Desire and life are not that distinct. The elderly seem to start to desire desire as it needs more foolishness to fall into such.

Actually it needs the peen ass to achieve a sufficient degree of firmness every once in a while.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Pointing out Biden's documented support for racialist policies and politicians is just SJW nonsense!

Now I would not call it SJW for so many reasons. But Biden has worked harder against all forms of racism than most people out there and there's no "support" documented beyond some standard political realism of the time, blown out of proportion.

Ironically, instead of judging accusations of racism by the "content of their character" you are being hysterical about their supposed destructive power and role in creating mass hysteria.

You've got a point there, somewhere. Actually I already preempted that with mentioning both "beauty and violence" and lamenting the lack of joy or even glee witnessing it. Not exactly hysterical language. But there's a subtle hint of the nostalgic, of frowning of eyebrows. GO BEHIND ME SATAN.

From a wider perspective, mass hysteria seems to be the more common phenomenon. For example, Chinese history looks like "a series of authoritarian regimes punctuated by periods of chaos triggered by episodes of mass hysteria", as the late Raimondo remarked five years back.

All of your attempts at arguing whatever your actual point (if any) about racism is, boil down to If [STRAWMAN] then why not also [RED HERRING]? Could it be that [NON-SEQUITUR]?

You forget that I was not the one accusing people of racism or alt-rightism without much actual evidence. But many ordinary counter-arguments go like that of course: "if [SOMETHING ACTUALLY LOOKING INSANE] then why not also [VALID CONSEQUENCE of SUCH INSANITY]? Could it be that [SOMETHING LIKELY NOT AGREED ON BECAUSE AUDIENCE LOST MIND ON THE TOPIC]".

Ummm maybe watch the video? I'm not going to waste time researching Shapiro's racism beyond what was referenced there.

Yeah, that was expected. It's too simple and obvious to write and instead we have lots of times for jokes and making other vapid points.

Also, that is why it chaps my balls to see people who claim to be unconditionally committed to furthering rationality ignore the superficiality and cynicism underpinning modernity's version of it.

Rationality doesn't have the power to deal with a lot of things in life. Simply because society and much of nature is not driven by it either. This is the hardest thing to come to terms with, for ratio inclined people. So much of it is illusion, a communicative thing at best. Behavioral, less so.

[jupiviv]

Firstly, Narendra Modi wishes you Eid mubarak!

From a wider perspective, mass hysteria seems to be the more common phenomenon. For example, Chinese history looks like "a series of authoritarian regimes punctuated by periods of chaos triggered by episodes of mass hysteria", as the late Raimondo remarked five years back.

Mass hysteria doesn't nullify the relative validity of political causes any more than, say, selfishness or lust.

Ummm maybe watch the video? I'm not going to waste time researching Shapiro's racism beyond what was referenced there.

Yeah, that was expected. It's too simple and obvious to write and instead we have lots of times for jokes and making other vapid points.

I've already explained why Shapiro's opposition to antisemitism targeted at himself doesn't exculpate his support for other kinds of racism, including even selective antisemitism against Jews who criticise Israel or aren't conservative. The evidence for both is referenced in the aforesaid video.

Also, that is why it chaps my balls to see people who claim to be unconditionally committed to furthering rationality ignore the superficiality and cynicism underpinning modernity's version of it.

Rationality doesn't have the power to deal with a lot of things in life. Simply because society and much of nature is not driven by it either. This is the hardest thing to come to terms with, for ratio inclined people. So much of it is illusion, a communicative thing at best. Behavioral, less so.

Rationality and irrationality (=all but rationality) cannot drive or deal with anything in and of themselves. What is really difficult to accept is solitude. The fact that few will dig as deep into a thought or carry a choice as far. But this isn't irrationality we're coming to terms with but our own so-called rationality! Everything else within us desires companions and children huddled together in little arbours at dusk. Rationality says their lack will make us suffer but also that even this suffering doesn't belong to us. We must exchange our treasures for dust because we, our suffering and our treasures are all dust.

As you put it, the elderly desire desire itself. What they have made fools of them so they want to suffer again by pretending it's lost! But wisdom is perpetual poverty. The process of knowing the true nature of things is, like the true nature of things, empty of its own existence. It is not finished, resolved, contained or opposed, yet it exists.

He transcends the formless nest of his personal emptiness,
Enters trouble-tossed seas in the great karmic ocean.
Homage to the Great Merciful One who takes on our suffering
In a hundred million forms over boundless space and time.