Veils

Discussion of science, technology, politics, and other topics that aren't strictly philosophical.
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Gremln
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Veils

Post by Gremln »

A while ago I was reading about veils and I realized that some men wear them. They are not just for women.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil
Am I the only person here who thinks that the world would be a better place if everyone wore a veil?
Veils repress sex and sex is the ultimate enemy of logic and reason.
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Cahoot
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Re: Veils

Post by Cahoot »

In the West veils would probably become a fashion statement of materialism, absorbed by industrialized society.

Silk, microfiber, fine wool, North Face and Nike logos, gang colors, and so on, or the anti-materialism self-depricating reactionary veils of thrift shop, cotton, polyester, burlap for the non-clingers. Does this veil match my outfit? Does it complement my eyes? Does it go with my Bimmer? Ornamental. Does it express my values of renunciation? Another adornment for self-concept.

The change must first come from the mind to be lasting, or meaningful. External changes forced on the mind are prisons.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Veils

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Not just in the West, Cahoot. In the East it's exactly like that in the modern Islamic countries at least (with a fashion industry I mean).

Gremln, perhaps sex is not just enemy but also source of logic and reason in some respects. Like the desire for the "secret" which needs a veil to work its way. This is the essence of the erotic. Nobody desires plain nudity, some might think that but they desire it from behind their own veil. It's weird how that works!
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Cahoot
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Re: Veils

Post by Cahoot »

Gremln
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Re: Veils

Post by Gremln »

Well ... fashions change with the times. I just hope they don't become more slutty.

When I was growing up, the other kids made fun of me because my sex drive was barely existent. One kid even told me "If you are a man and you don't think about sex every minute then you're a fag."

I totally understand why Muslim women (and some men) want to cover up. I'm always polite to Muslim women who cover themselves and I don't believe that the veil is misogynistic even though my mother and stepfather insist that it is.
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Cahoot
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Re: Veils

Post by Cahoot »

When women are forced to wear veils, obviously the misogyny is found in the force and the mind behind the force, not the veil, not the women.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Veils

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Cahoot wrote:When women are forced to wear veils, obviously the misogyny is found in the force and the mind behind the force, not the veil, not the women.
The force often being the tradition itself and its most active upholders. Interesting enough I found women to be the most active upholders. Rarely they are the reformer! I've witnessed a few arguments between husband and wife, where the wife insisted on a religious head scarf while the more liberal man opposed it. She felt the social and cultural expectation perhaps. Of course there are other upholders: the teachers, the religious "police" and so. "She" as the societal. It's not the woman being devalued (since a religious man would argue the exposure devalues and cheapens, insults) but the tradition which is being upheld, being valued more. This is hard to understand for people "liberated" from all tradition and the sacred. It's not seen as "liberation" through any traditional lense. At the same time the tradition is seen as degrading and imprisoning through modern glasses. Both are warped views while occasionally true enough.
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Cahoot
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Re: Veils

Post by Cahoot »

Good point. The mind that compels the force can be in/of the man or the woman. J. Krishnamurti speaks of internal conflict as a form of self-inflicted violence, thus renunciation is a form of self-inflicted violence when it is the result of will restricting desire. Without the conflict, renunciation is freedom. Thus the fact of a woman wearing a veil is not the sole indicator of misogyny.
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