White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:37 pm

jupiviv wrote:Dragon girl and snow boy (the goodies) have some cavern romance before going off to pwn the baddies with their dragon
This might only show your own obsession, like some suppressed desire (not just sexual) for the girl. When I watch the episode and hear about at least the intended meaning of the show runners, a different picture emerges. Might it be that you indeed miss the Western slant of irony in the portrayals? It should be obvious the Liberal queen is a menace, right on track to become as insane as her father. Her actions have been shown to be full of unintended blow-back and the outlook for her campaign to "liberate" a world which doesn't look for her liberation are dim.

Clearly some analogy is attempted here with the nation building projects of the US (Air Force, gender equality, class liberation etc). But the show makes a real attempt to make it look as something which is not going to work in any broader application and would be pointless in any case as the true enemy: the White Walkers, the Nordic, chilling "postmodern" undead are marching on, threatening to snuff out good and evil alike. Perhaps the love between two people can push the enemy back :-| -- lets hope it has a more hopeless ending.

This thread indeed should be the place to discuss Game of Thrones! It even has a possible Buddhist element: the followers of the many-faced god who diminish the suffering by death and/or extinguishing personal existence (No One). Personally I find it clever writing for a Western show.

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jupiviv
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by jupiviv » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:46 am

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:
jupiviv wrote:Dragon girl and snow boy (the goodies) have some cavern romance before going off to pwn the baddies with their dragon
This might only show your own obsession, like some suppressed desire (not just sexual) for the girl. When I watch the episode and hear about at least the intended meaning of the show runners, a different picture emerges. Might it be that you indeed miss the Western slant of irony in the portrayals? It should be obvious the Liberal queen is a menace, right on track to become as insane as her father. Her actions have been shown to be full of unintended blow-back and the outlook for her campaign to "liberate" a world which doesn't look for her liberation are dim.
Hey you can't invent a theory and then accuse me of obsession because I'm going by what I actually see! The portrayal I saw was that civilians (women and children) shouldn't be incinerated under any circumstances but soldiers are fair game if dragon girl is provoked by their patriarchal oppression. There's no indication that all the grrl power and role reversals are satiric. The bad consequences of SJW heroism are supposed to be "lamentable" rather than "evil".
Clearly some analogy is attempted here with the nation building projects of the US (Air Force, gender equality, class liberation etc). But the show makes a real attempt to make it look as something which is not going to work in any broader application and would be pointless in any case as the true enemy: the White Walkers, the Nordic, chilling "postmodern" undead are marching on, threatening to snuff out good and evil alike. Perhaps the love between two people can push the enemy back :-| -- lets hope it has a more hopeless ending.
We have a teenage girl who has magically convinced patriarchal barbarians to fight for her, magically transported them and their horses to another continent, and is now magically feeding/paying them as well as teleporting them to where both the enemy main force and convoy train happen to be stationed together. Not to mention light cavalry magically breaking through pike formations instead of being massacred. How much broader application do you need?

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:33 pm

jupiviv wrote:If the portrayal was actively propagandising in *favour* of violence, incest and depravity in and of themselves, most people would recognise that and look elsewhere (which they are free to do).
Brainwashing propaganda nearly everywhere your entire life, jups solution>>>free to look elsewhere.
jupiviv wrote:Actually, propaganda would have to be *more* realistic than this crap.
Incorrect, propaganda can be effective in any format, even a cartoon. It is effective in any format because it is so widespread.
jupiviv wrote: I don't think anyone is denying that propaganda or liberal bias are present in the MSM. It is your right-wing biased analysis of it that is at issue. What benefit is to gained from spending millions of dollars to brainwash people into accepting eunuch sex?
You're looking at it too narrowly, earlier I listed maybe 20 consistent themes just quickly. In itself, nothing, all coupled together? Absolute complete power to dominate the minds of the masses and mold them however they like. For example, subservient, feminized, disorganized, docile, etc.

The entire democratic parties system is clearly bullshit. No matter what people vote for all those directions I mentioned have continued playing out.
jupiviv wrote: On the other hand, the recent popularity of dramatic, world/reality engulfing conspiracy theories can be legitimately viewed as an attempt by the MSM to brainwash the public into preferring fantasy over dispassionate observation.
I don't disagree, there's probably a very large element of that. Dispassionate observation is definitely more than enough, the point is, even the obvious truths are somehow implied as crazy conspiracies. The point is that they control the narrative entirely and it is purposefully aimed away from certain harsh realities.
jupiviv wrote:Sexual freedom and license weren't introduced into the zeitgeist by Netflix or HBO. They have numerous causes and the media adapted to the public perception of these things.
I never implied they were, I said this was going on since television was released. It is not adopting to public perception, it is forming public perception however is deemed necessary. (By government? Media owners? Corporations? Deep state/intelligence agencies? Elite bankers? Just listen to that JFK speech. Who knows really I do not pretend to, all I know is that secrecy, surveillance, and being regulated so completely that you can't sell gran down the road a baked pie and have no free speech, is all surely for our safety and economic freedom jup, haven't you been listening?)

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:52 pm

jupiviv wrote:The portrayal I saw was that civilians (women and children) shouldn't be incinerated under any circumstances but soldiers are fair game if dragon girl is provoked by their patriarchal oppression.
Yeah that's one of the themes in the media running for decades. Men are disposable, can rightly be killed, are murderers, rapists, etc, unless of course they are "white knights", but the old adage of the protagonists, "I don't harm women under any circumstance" was of course law for decades. It's progressed now so much tho, all the way to women dominating the scene in every sense, despite constantly complaining about the patriarchy anyway.

There's not even an attempt to hide it any more, some shows are blatantly propaganda for things like LGBTQ. Go watch sense8! Just look what happened to the creators of the matrix, the center of the whole "red pill" theme. I'm honestly dumbfounded that guys apparently aware as Diebert aren't actually full blown on board with this conspiracy/ the indisputable Orwellian control taking place, it seems that obvious to me.

And what happens to media demonstrating alternative views? It gets shut down or is against the law. None of this is coincidence in my eyes. You guys act like ridiculous control of the masses/media or censorship is reserved for some fantasy novel. It goes on in many countries.

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jupiviv
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by jupiviv » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:16 am

JohnJAu wrote:
jupiviv wrote:If the portrayal was actively propagandising in *favour* of violence, incest and depravity in and of themselves, most people would recognise that and look elsewhere (which they are free to do).
Brainwashing propaganda nearly everywhere your entire life, jups solution>>>free to look elsewhere.
Yes, look elsewhere. There are petabyte sized collections of classical music, books and tutorials on pretty much any subject that are available for *free* on the internet. Why not look at those instead of postmodernist drama porn?
jupiviv wrote:Actually, propaganda would have to be *more* realistic than this crap.
Incorrect, propaganda can be effective in any format, even a cartoon. It is effective in any format because it is so widespread.
The MSM is replete with examples of *actual* propaganda. They are explicitly meant to be the opposite of fictional and entertaining. Fictional portrayals may be based on the writers'/producers' *belief* in real propaganda, but that still doesn't make them propaganda.
You're looking at it too narrowly, earlier I listed maybe 20 consistent themes just quickly. In itself, nothing, all coupled together? Absolute complete power to dominate the minds of the masses and mold them however they like. For example, subservient, feminized, disorganized, docile, etc.
So what, TV shows are making men feminine? What about an environment of resource excess, security, service sector economy etc., which diminishes the perceived value of traditional masculine roles and intensifies the biologically ingrained perception of the majority of men - by men and women - as being disposable. CNN, HBO and Netflix didn't introduce hypergamy.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 pm

jupiviv wrote: Yes, look elsewhere. There are petabyte sized collections of classical music, books and tutorials on pretty much any subject that are available for *free* on the internet. Why not look at those instead of postmodernist drama porn?
People grow up watching what is readily available and mainstream, a young person doesn't have that awareness, and most don't even know it's happening. Plus their compulsory education system included, plus in-opposable changes to the law.
jupiviv wrote:
So what, TV shows are making men feminine? What about an environment of resource excess, security, service sector economy etc., which diminishes the perceived value of traditional masculine roles and intensifies the biologically ingrained perception of the majority of men - by men and women - as being disposable. CNN, HBO and Netflix didn't introduce hypergamy.
Feminization is one of the themes. There's plenty more. And I as I said, it began long before HBO, etc. Hypergamy did indeed exist before but at least there were a few rational traditions/laws/religious/social reprimands in place to stabilize society and counter certain things which are clearly 'bad' for people as a whole. This goes beyond what is biologically ingrained, it is even present in continuous changes to the legal system. There are many supporting laws which in conjunction with the brainwashing propaganda end up serving the aforementioned agendas.

Do you live in India Jup? And is Diebert in Denmark? I think it's quiet possible that you'd need to live in a further degenerated western city like Sydney where culture is non-existent, people are disconnected and zombified, and two full time high paid thirty year olds cannot receive a loan for an apartment (this is not even close to a proper example mind you, I imagine American cities are manyfold worse, the point is that this western-city lifestyle is spreading) to see properly what I'm talking about and have disgust for the world. Even the founders suggest this.

Also, the way that apartment buildings resemble the plugged-in human spirals in the Matrix is uncanny at night, as an example, on the far left is the infinity apartment building, Brisbane, Queensland:

http://imgur.com/vEORHLK

What's the difference really? A little less goo and the wires don't yet go into the body.

You'll get it eventually Jup, the present moving toward the future, is not bright. People are little more than mindless economic slaves/cattle with no rights at this point. Soon to be tech-tagged with microchips, not that it's even necessary by now really. All the 'good' aspects of the 'progress' are illusions or exist only in dialogue on TV, the actual real life results are clear, and they are not 'good'.
The prison is not so much physical, it is 'a prison for your mind', in which everyone becomes an inmate in the isolation block.

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jupiviv
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by jupiviv » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:41 pm

JohnJAu wrote:
jupiviv wrote: Yes, look elsewhere. There are petabyte sized collections of classical music, books and tutorials on pretty much any subject that are available for *free* on the internet. Why not look at those instead of postmodernist drama porn?
People grow up watching what is readily available and mainstream, a young person doesn't have that awareness, and most don't even know it's happening. Plus their compulsory education system included, plus in-opposable changes to the law.
There is a natural drift towards casualness about sexuality and the commercialisation of the same, which combined with digital telecommunications results in free and unsupervised access to mature content. Your theory about the media *manipulating* people into being lascivious and depraved etc. rests on the assumption that they are naturally inclined to higher pursuits like reading or listening to classical music. Since they don't follow those pursuits despite having the choice to do so without suffering any harmful consequences, that assumption is wrong.
Feminization is one of the themes. There's plenty more.
Some forms of propaganda do exist in democratic nations, but others do not. Arbitrarily lumping all that you think is wrong with the world into the category of "manipulation by the elites" will lead you nowhere, because the world doesn't work that way.
And I as I said, it began long before HBO, etc. Hypergamy did indeed exist before but at least there were a few rational traditions/laws/religious/social reprimands in place to stabilize society and counter certain things which are clearly 'bad' for people as a whole. This goes beyond what is biologically ingrained, it is even present in continuous changes to the legal system. There are many supporting laws which in conjunction with the brainwashing propaganda end up serving the aforementioned agendas.
The laws you speak of weren't instituted because of any conscious collective effort to limit hypergamy. They were reactions to the obvious bad consequences of excessive hypergamy. When a greater degree of hypergamy could be accomodated by the resources available to society as a whole, those obvious bad consequences disappeared along with the laws intended to avoid them. When hypergamy becomes a problem again, they will be reintroduced just as non-conspiratorially as they were repealed.

A good example of this are the alt right/race realist chicks like the one Alex is besotted with. As the economy declines, the number of men who can indulge their bloated senses of entitlement also decreases. They are doing the tradcon/race realist makeovers to increase their chances of landing themselves a nice MAGA provider who will take care of his 1950s housewife/Viking warrior princess. Of course, they can still assrape those men in the family courts, but even that may change if they situation gets dire enough.

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Eric Schiedler
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Eric Schiedler » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:31 am

Jupiviv:
A good example of this are the alt right/race realist chicks like the one Alex is besotted with. As the economy declines, the number of men who can indulge their bloated senses of entitlement also decreases. They are doing the tradcon/race realist makeovers to increase their chances of landing themselves a nice MAGA provider who will take care of his 1950s housewife/Viking warrior princess. Of course, they can still assrape those men in the family courts, but even that may change if they situation gets dire enough.
Harper's magazine featured one of these Valkyries in their feature article for Sept. 2017, with art imagining them in full retro-futurist regalia. I believe it's the same one that is setting Alex's alt-right heart chambers aflutter, Lana Lokteff. If she isn't the one, I'm sure she'll do in a pinch.

The Rise of the Valkyries - In the alt-right, women are the future, and the problem
By Seyward Derby, Harper's, Sept. 2017
https://harpers.org/archive/2017/09/the ... valkyries/

While the journalist is confused about what is behind the alt-right, being the leftist intelligentsia propagandist that he is as a writer for Harper's (/s), he is correct in pointing out that they are clumsily attempting to ally with groups that are axiomatically opposed to them, and that this is due to their pussy-whipped membership.



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Post by jupiviv » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:40 am

I looked up the name and it's definitely the Lana who is setting Alex's fjord of faith abloom with dingleberries of starkest blonde. Looks like a German dominatrix and about to hit the proverbial wall. The necks give them away without exception.
The Rise of the Valkyries - In the alt-right, women are the future, and the problem
By Seyward Derby, Harper's, Sept. 2017
https://harpers.org/archive/2017/09/the ... valkyries/
More evidence that the online media scene at this point is a toxic rainbow swamp of fuck. I guess I could spend 15 minutes writing about this tragicomic spectacle of a leftist whiteknight trying to understand what it is that ails the alt rightist damsels in distress, but frankly I'd rather jerk off to Lana's neck.

I still read a few alt media sites that maintain some objectivity, but apart from that I'm done with this shit. My no-nonsense syndicated local paper is more than enough for current affairs.

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Santiago Odo
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:54 am

Can you comment on the recent twist in the conversation?

It is puzzling in a sense, but instructive. John seems stuck on this notion of 'propaganda' and is wrapped up in the idea that the moulding of opinion and 'social engineering' is a centralized process. The term, it seems to me, should not be 'propaganda' but rather something like 'coercive intellectual strategies' that have to do with the Academy having been taken over by 'cultural Marxists'.

The Alt-Right narrative, whether it is accurate or not is up for discussion, is that cultural Marxists have so penetrated the arts and the academy, including 'Hollywood' of course, that a whole group of asserted ideas have been 'installed' in people. They are represented as normalcy and because they are presented as such the average person is 'coerced' to accept them. In the 90s two homosexual men wrote a book "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear & Hated of Gays in the 90s". (Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen, Doubleday 1989). First published as a series of articles in a Gay magazine it outlines a strategy to normalize how homosexuals are viewed by people in culture. It is a point-by-point tactical planning document about how perception will be moulded so that homosexuality will be made to seem normal and good. Both of these men came out of Harvard and illustrate the sort of intelligence that stands behind the public relations industry. (Kirk is a researcher in neuropsychiatry, and Madsen a public communications consultant).

The point in looking at a document like this is to understand how the normalization of attitude toward homosexuality is achieved by psychological and social manipulation. It operates similarly to 'propaganda' but is better described as 'social engineering'. I have suggested listening to some of the talks by E Michael Jones because he goes into detail about the collusion between war-department agencies and civil institutions in the 20th century to arrive at, to construct as it were, the 'America' of today. It is a vast collusion of interests which clearly involve manipulations of how people perceive and understand their world and their selves in the world.

Would you comment on the article featuring Lana Lokteff?

I just read the article, not having seen it before. I find the attempts by left-leaning journalism to take down an adversary as very instructive and I read the article with interest. I have the impression that this sort of expose journalism will do more to help the cause that Alt-Rightists advocate than it will harm them. All of the people mentioned in the article --- Ayla Stewart, Bre Fauxcheaux, Mary Grey (of Adam & Mary), as well as 'Clare' ('The Truth About South Africa's Rainbow Nation') are people who I have researched (listened to) in my effort to understand the New Right. A book that is useful (published by the University Press of Kansas so it is not a partisan document IMV) is 'Right-Wing Critics of American Conservatism' by George Hawley. As far as the American scene goes it is vital to understand how American conservatism was formed and how, through various influences and pressures, it was purged of its radical elements and --- again in my own view --- transformed into a adjunct to the dominant progressive-left cultural and intellectual structure that dominates US politics. This is where the term 'cuckservative' originated.

To understand the somewhat recent upsurge in right-leaning ideas requires, IMV, a very different sort of lens than the Left has available to it as a possibility. They can only describe any turn toward such ideas about race, about exclusion, about 'white identity', about Eurcentrism, about the reestablishment of such ideas and atitudes as an extression of normalcy, as hitlerism, as radical extremism, as fringe rightwing pathology. But in this they make a grave mistake. And as long as they continue in that vein their mistake will work against them. In order to understand the present upsurge requires back-tracking into real social conservatism and that means back to the intellectuals of the Interwar Period. It means having a fair and balanced (as they say) understanding of fascist doctrine but most importantly the intellectual and philosophical ideas that stand behind these cultural manifestations of resistance to 'progressivist' ideas and practices.

Although people like Lana Lokteff are not polished, and certainly not products of the Academy, it is thoroughly unwise to dismiss them (I say this to those who desire to undermine their positions). As I have looked into it I have noticed how their 'reaction' is something they feel at a non-intellectual level. I do not want to say it is sentimental nor even emotional but it is felt, or registered and understood, 'in the body'. The reaction comes out of the body. I don't know how else to put it. The cultural mind, having been taken over by the political left, sits on the social body as an intrusion. Sort of like a coup d'etat or a Bolshevik putsch. I refer back to 'After the Ball': the ends were achieved artificially, in a Grasmcian fashion (cultural hegemony). But 'the body' in the sense of my use of the concept is by its nature non-intellectual, non-articulate. It feels, it understands somatically, but it cannt explain what it feels and understands. Therefor, when it speaks it speaks from contradiction. Its speaking is the beginning of reaching out toward sound articulations. The first voices that speak are those who are, indeed, from the fringe. But that should be obvious because these ideas (about race, gender, resistance to cultural Marxism, against homosexual deviancy, and especially against those who orient themselves through religious systems) have been pushed out of the picture of the 'normal'. As the Left tightens its ideological position, for example, it describes a religious orientation --- quite brazenly --- as a pathology, as a psychological disorder. But seen from another angle it is the Left itself (hyper-liberalism or hyper-progressivism) which is, in a sense, the mental disorder that is doing harm to 'the body'. The body, therefor, has to correct the mind. It has to reassert itself.

Ayla Stewart for example, and 'Adam & Mary' (Christian identitarians), represent the social body which, as in the Interwar period, still defined themselves through their religious and cultural traditionalism. I suggest that for them to better understand themselves they would gain greatly from reading, for example, Charles Maurras and researching Action Franciase and other such social-political groups.

To better understand the American 'body' it would be imperative, IMV, to read David Duke for example. He has a biography that, when I read it, places him squarely within American traditions. David Duke is made to seem weird because the 'head' has been wrested away from 'the body'. Duke provides an example of the separation and disjoint between the mind and the body that occurred as a result of the American Civil War (that is a glossary way to put it but an accurate one IMV). To join/rejoin the body with the head means that the head is going to have to transform itself. The Left, right now, is simply incapable of seeing that this is true, and why it is true. The reason is because it sees itself, metaphysically, as 'the good'.

Can you make heads or tails of Jupi's 'discourse'?

Its a challenge really. I think that the reason that he is articulatedly incoherent is precisely because he is not functioning within 'his own categories'. So he desires to have so much to say about topics and social issues that are completely removed from his own context. He seems only to emulate Occidental music and other sorts of accomplishment, but he cannot really have any visceral grasp of it because it is radically not his own. He seems the cultural product of Indian ressentiment toward English culture on one hand, but he performs this by attempting to locate himself fully within the category which, traditionally in any case, rejects him.

Through this strange and convuluted ressentiment one can, IMV, gain some insight into his opposition to the sort of resurgence of 'identity' that we notice in people like Lokteff and some of the other semi-articulate Alt-Righters. Jupi seems to want to undermine them or perhaps to supplant them (?) and assert himself when, in fact, he does have and will not ever have any 'genuine' position within these Occidental categories. In this sense his own 'head' seems to have been taken over by foreign concerns.

What does any of this have to do with Genius Forum?

I would argue that it has a great deal to do with it. But I would start by mentioning that, when push came to shove as it were, David and Dan revealed where they really situate themselves within the world of ideas. They proposed to be 'radicals' to the feminized motions of the present, but instead clearly demonstrated that they are aligned with the aberrant feminine (if I will be allowed to put it this way). I think one could go right down the line of issues and one would clearly see that they are firmly aligned with liberalism as 'hyper-liberalism and with the status quo. Their religious inclinations (was that an Hegelian 'absolute' being referred to?!) become mush and also become meaningless: intellectual kitsch. Their admiration of Weininger and the accenting of masculinity' becomes feeble and weak. Where is the ideal man? Chanting in front of a statue of the Buddha? (To energize Occidental traditions will not ever involve Buddhist categories at any level).

I mean to say that what recently occurred here is more or less incredible in its implications.

Now, the 'Alt-Right' and the Nouvelle Droite are engaged in a way where the mind and the intellect is responding to 'the body'. Or, 'the body' is communicating with the mind in a way that actually matter. It has actual implications. These nascent movements (of those attempting to define a turn to traditionalist positions) have arisen in all the nations of Europe and throughout the anglophone world and the conversation they inspire is creating shifts in perspective. While 'the lads' (two of them anyway) demonstrate that they have no relationship at all with these upsurges. So then, what was all of that about? Those years of defining 'dangerous ideas'? That is the question that remains to be answered. When David came storming in to say he was 'Back in the saddle' I might suggest that he was riding sidesaddle!

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:47 am

Santiago Odo wrote:.. attitude toward homosexuality is achieved by psychological and social manipulation. It operates similarly to 'propaganda' but is better described as 'social engineering'.
And your reasoning reflects exactly the very arguments you oppose: as many gay activists and intellectuals would say your bias on gender and sexuality is the result of a way older and stubborn psychological and social manipulation. It would be interesting to explore the cause of this striking similarity in tactics and arguments. It's the underlying postmodern escalation, I'd say, if anyone would ask me.
Now, the 'Alt-Right' and the Nouvelle Droite are engaged in a way where the mind and the intellect is responding to 'the body'. Or, 'the body' is communicating with the mind in a way that actually matter. It has actual implications. These nascent movements (of those attempting to define a turn to traditionalist positions) have arisen in all the nations of Europe and throughout the anglophone world and the conversation they inspire is creating shifts in perspective. While 'the lads' (two of them anyway) demonstrate that they have no relationship at all with these upsurges. So then, what was all of that about? Those years of defining 'dangerous ideas'? That is the question that remains to be answered.
The 'Alt-Right' and the Nouvelle Droite are seriously conflicted and deranges movements when taken together. Confusion rules! Violence simmering inside frustrating ressentiment at both left and right. A narrative is attempted but it's a long way. This is also the reason the "lads", as you call them, appear confused. They correctly sensed the emotion and resulting idiocy in one movement, forcing them to lean backwards on the background which informed them so far. But this would only be important for those who want to melt philosophy down in pitch forks and seductive narratives functioning as propaganda. It's the very thing people might start to wake up from. It cannot be done individually though, we simply exist not that way, socially.
When David came storming in to say he was 'Back in the saddle' I might suggest that he was riding sidesaddle!
Well spotted. It went the way of his announcement of working on new Genius Realm entries. He's free to change his mind when new circumstance and insights derived from those inform him. It's something to aspire to ;-)

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Santiago Odo
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:57 am

How would you respond to Diebert's comments about homosexuality? Is heterosexuality a social and cultural value that is 'engineered'?

I appreciate that you ask the question. As I have been thinking it over --- and by that I mean over the months and years --- I have come to see that the defense of heterosexuality, the defense of the man-woman couple, the defense of the family as a special social unit, and of course many other things that are part of cultural traditionalism, are defined by and held together by religious definitions. And in the case of the Occident this means Christian definitions. And insofar as it is Christian this essentially means Catholic definitions. At one level --- that is, theologically --- the definitions are expounded in highly rational and intellectual terms. This is in fact 'intellection' of the most pure type. I refer to the Schoolmen of course and their intense intellectualism. They profoundly thought things through based on the core premises and definitions which they worked with, or that were given to them, or that they came upon. The more that I look into this, the more clear it is that their thinking was clear and sound.

I am not sure if I understand --- or agree --- that it was sound thinking. Why do you think it was?

The essence of the basic communication problem is in this. My view is that Christian metaphysical definitions form the base of perceptual structures within Occidental man. They are so fundemantal that they cannot really be erased. But when I say 'Christian' I of course mean also Platonic and Greco-Christian. To understand Christian metaphysics in this sense is to have insight into something very basic to culture and also to these people, these Occidentalists. They assembled (if you will) or put into motion the definitions which have become part-and-parcel of our selves at the most basic level. I think that one can allow onself to go through any level of different transformations at a *philosophical* level --- any different modifications of the way that one thinks about *things* --- but that this is superficial in some sense to the core metaphysical definitions, and these are structured into people, into a person, at a more basic level. Neuro-linguistically perhaps is enough of an indication to clarify what I mean.

I would suggest that even, or especially! the people that created this forum were basically Christian men at this metaphysical level. That is, these views and ways of organizing the self in this world had come about through dozens of generations of previous *work* (if one could call it that). The essential concerns, though, the essential problems they encountered (DD and K) and those they responded to came out of them because they are Christian men in essence. But keep in mind that I am speaking about embedded structures and not superficial self-definitions.

I have to jump rather quickly from that generalization to make other general statements otherwise I'd get too lost in details (which are necessary but time consuming). I would suggest that the whole Zone of Concern or the Mood of Concern that motivated these folks needs to be examined very carefully. David as having been raised up Catholic for example. (I do not know Kevin's and Dan's background). But I suggest (and did suggest it long ago) that there is something quite puritanical in them. Their reaction to 'culture' and 'woman' was essentially a Christian-Puritanical reaction. I might have been critical of it at that time (years back) but now I think I understand it better and am less critical. The reason is because I see them as being inspired by, and of responding on an inner level to, a moral requirement that is best summarized as 'reform' and 'renewal'. I will further suggest that this is one of the, and I might also say the primary motivating category that exists within the Occidental psyche. There might be said to be one essential imperative within the Christian message. It is both a metaphysical concept and one that plays out socially and ethically: purification essentially.

In Christian metaphysics the body is the domain of a battle. The battle is between terrestrial force and angelic power. Between the daemonic and the angelic. This is all diagrammed in Thomist theological terms and symbols. There is a Thomist psychology that is intimately bound-up with fundamental Christian metaphysics, and this psychology, and those metaphysics, are structured into Occidental man's perceptual person. In this sense --- if I am right of course --- if there is to be a recovery of the Occidental self, and a restoration of Europe, and not a continuation of decline in the Spenglerian sense, it is required that this psychology and these metaphysics are revisted, recomprehended, and that the basic, animating ideas are put into motion again. I suggest that there is no other way. There is no way to avoid this except if the present way is continued in that allows for dissolution-of-self, which is in essnece 'the ailment'.

To imply that the family, the union between man and woman, the structure of the family, and a family that exists within an enclosing or enveloping 'intelligible metaphysics' which provides it with sense of mission and meaning, is 'engineered' in the same way that homosexual licence is engineered, is to me a very strange assertion! I mean, I understand it, but I can only imagine that such an assertion of relativity of values is, essentially, one that has arisen out of postmodernism. Agan, postmodernism is the loss of metaphysical bearing. And the 'bearing' has to be defined as an initial proposition or presupposition. I have made that declaration. I have suggested a fundamental and an essential metaphysics and the platform of it. Does this have to be defended? Argued? This is a good question. My actual underdetanding is somewhat different. I actually understand that one understands this 'metaphysic' by and through grace (which I deliberately keep uncapitalized). It is a gift through 'intellect' and 'intellectus'. One arrives at it, and then seeks to make it real (or more and more real) or one turns away from it. There is a rather stark dichotomy here and I think the understanding of that dichotomy is something that must be accentuated, not diminished.

All this is required to be able make statements about sexuality and the way that it is understood (seen) and used. One has to start, if you will permit me to put it like this, from the hardest and most rigorous theological and metaphysical definitions and establish them first and foremost. Similar to the definitions required in all other intellectual domains. But the fundamental definitions are required.

Homosexuality, as should be seen and understood by clear-thinking people without a great deal of effort, functions contrarily to basic metaphysics. True, one has to have defined and one has to have *seen* what these metaphysics are, and if one doesn't one cannot (and possibly will not). But this problem of communication and understanding underpins the basic disagreement that animates many levels and layers of social and ideological conflict in our day. The reason we disagree is because we do not hold to the same metaphysics. To find agreement a similar metaphysics has to be defined/redefined.

Homosexuals will certainly always exist. That is not the point really. And it was definitely not the point of referring to the 'After the Ball' and to cultural social engineering of that sort. By referring to these culture-manipulation efforts, and to 'cultural Marxism' and to 'social and cultural acids' and to 'undermining structure and hierarchy, one is referring (I think) to something essentially insidious. 'Insidious' means 'to lie in wait for' or 'ambush' and implies something that operates 'inconspicuously but with grave effect'. I think that one has to look at the forces that wield cultural power and stand over the dissemination of values in order to understand the negative aspect of the inculcation of homosexuality in the sense of the 'homosexualization of culture'.

Sexuality and homosexuality is just one aspect of a degeneration-process that, I assert, needs to be arrested and reversed. I suppose I must say that the assertion is simplistic and general but it is general idea that one has to begin with. How sexual politics and practice fits into cultural degeneration and how these tie-in to weaking of social structures and of course the family, is the stuff of the culture wars.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by jupiviv » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:06 pm

Alex wrote:Its a challenge really. I think that the reason that he is articulatedly incoherent is precisely because he is not functioning within 'his own categories'. So he desires to have so much to say about topics and social issues that are completely removed from his own context. He seems only to emulate Occidental music and other sorts of accomplishment, but he cannot really have any visceral grasp of it because it is radically not his own. He seems the cultural product of Indian ressentiment toward English culture on one hand, but he performs this by attempting to locate himself fully within the category which, traditionally in any case, rejects him.
Girlish passive aggression/tantrums won't make me go away or stop milking teh lulz from you. It will most certainly not make you any more special or important to anyone, least of all to women who you imagine share your self-referential notions of "Occidental" culture and identity. Let your nuts drop and get some praxis going already!
As I have been thinking it over --- and by that I mean over the months and years --- I have come to see that the defense of heterosexuality, the defense of the man-woman couple, the defense of the family as a special social unit, and of course many other things that are part of cultural traditionalism, are defined by and held together by religious definitions.
Ah, marriage and family, which you never seem to talk about yet now apparently wish to "defend" in your capacity as ethno-religious gimp to race realist chicks. It is, of course, family that legitimised and defended religion and not the other way around, due to the benefits of the communal order and spiritual guidance (emotional gratification) provided by religion.

Wherever religion *opposed* family, e.g. clergy vs laity or Mahayana vs Hinayana, it was despised and ignored in practice. Not surprising that the likes of red ice radio do so in theory as well, albeit with anti-semitic undertones.

All that passionate yearning for "tradition" by the Viking war(rior) brides is only due to their absolute license to define it any way they want, at any moment, without fear of consequence or rebuke; more commonly known as "feminism". Family court assrape awaits any paedophile rapist patriarch who becomes too traditional for their liking.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:14 pm

Santiago Odo wrote:without fear of consequence or rebuke; more commonly known as "feminism". Family court assrape awaits any paedophile rapist patriarch who becomes too traditional for their liking.
All male speech and action has been made illegal under the current patriarchal system, no matter whether it's in the confines of your own home, if a woman feels like assraping you.

The old adage "innocent until proven guilty" is factually wrong. You're guilty by default, and very rarely can prove innocence if you have a lot of money and luck(since plenty of forms of standard human behavior/ignorance have been made illegal).
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:17 pm

Diebert what did you exactly mean when you said the 'Alt-Right' and the Nouvelle Droite are seriously conflicted and deranged movements when taken together? Do you mean this is not a fine-tuned intellectual movement with well-thought out attempts to invoke some lost meta-physics in a hollowed out world?

Perhaps an illustration will provide some stepping stones to what actually happens instead of simply talking about idealism and what one would like it to become. The protests at Charlottesville regarding the removal of flags, renaming of the park and the removal of General Lee's statue is interesting as symbolic violence (the extermination of symbols) invoked the arrival of intellectual nihilism (KKK, black lives matter) and finally resulting in actual violence, naturally.

From the reporting some observations could be made:

- the image of a blend is created between alt-right, neo-Nazi, white nationalist, and far-right groups
- almost effortless merge between the anti-Semitic, homophobic, misogynistic and even pro-Russia chants
- two icons and their statues involved: Jefferson and Lee (and Stonewall Jackson)

So what I'm proposing is to label this conflict as expression of whitening. Did it really start with the renaming and removal of the iconic past? And more fundamentally, was it even a real conflict? Did the media capture extremes to paint the conflict in a specific light? Did we see a spectacle, like some re-enactment? Or was there a real process underneath it? In postmodern times we have to ask these questions to understand the context of the event.

Why did Charlottesville’s city council vote on the removal? This was linked to the social unrest after the racist mass murder by white local white supremacist Dylann Roof. But generally it's being argued the Confederates were "on the wrong side of history", and should be remembered but not revered on a pedestal. In addition not to embolden the Dylann Roofs of the world.

And why did Richard Spencer say the protest and burning torches was "a way to communicate with the dead" and mentioned the "beauty of that spectacle of flames at night". The undertones of a destructive desire? Or a child's memory of the display of fireworks? He adds, as to confirm his postmodern dedication: "It’s a beautiful aesthetic".

Food for thought. Is it violence to re-appropriate the past and its symbols? Does it even make sense to keep a losing side, a losing idea alive? As it might keep resentment burning for generations. See and try to apply this on the issues in the Middle East.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:06 pm

Alex has become mediumistic lately --- it was through an Internet correspondence course --- and is now in psychic touch with Leyla Shen who, he also has discovered through profound internal depth-investigations, that he has been in love with 'forever'. Oh sweet and delicate sentiment! In any case, it seems to be the case that exiled Leyla has become not only his most sacred Muse but his interrogator! Will wonders never cease here on GF? To all appearances it seems that the Spirit of Departed Leyla is now directing the inquiry? Oh wonder!

Do you agree, Sweet Alex, with Diebert's comments that the White Identity movement, in its broad manifestations, is not an intellectual movement (fine-tuned or otherwise) and should be seen instead as the invocation of some lost metaphysics in a 'hollowed-out world'?

So nice to hear from you again. What exactly happened? I mean, you just up and disappeared. Oh but let's not get sidetracked! My main observations about Diebert is that he lives in and operates from a severe postmodernist's position. That is to say that he has drank down the postmodern potion and it has colored all his perceptions. There is no fixed and solid 'Diebert' but rather a pastiche of various Dieberts who express different 'facets' of opinion. It would seem that he gives evidence, labyrinthianly and eloquently at times, of what is in its essence the 'postmodern problem'.

And what, my lovely, is the 'postmodern problem'?

The loss of a solid platform within the self where the very self can view and understand the self, explain the self's existence, and understand its existence within a physical frame within this plane of existence. There are many different ways that this could be explained and each one is an attempt at arriving at a definition that makes sense. But note that every effort of a committed postmodernist is to subvert all definitions! That is the essential condition of a postmodern when it is understood as 'malady'. The *cure of the postmodern problem*, in my view, has to do with establishing definitions that return one to the body as a real entity. I stress 'return' 'redefinition' 'revivification' and I see these in the context of a necessary metaphysics which, yes my cooing Australian Dove, represents the centre and the solidity within the Occidental world-picture.

The Charlottesville protests, it is true, could be seen as meaningless postmodern pastiches, and taken out of their context and presented through a postmodernist's lens made to seem meaningless and empty. But just the same intellectual effort could be exerted in focusing on what precisely they do mean, and specifically what Idea is expressed in them and through them. When a postmodernist spider spews out his goopy postmodernistic webbiness one has first to react --- one is stuck in reaction initially --- as one attempts to wipe it off. But it is sticky and each movement to remove it mires on more deeply in it. This is a problem. It can be solved but it requires resoluteness. And the resoluteness required is intellectual effort that side-steps the postmodern morass.

How would you propose to deal with these piled-up statements?
  • So what I'm proposing is to label this conflict as expression of whitening. Did it really start with the renaming and removal of the iconic past? And more fundamentally, was it even a real conflict? Did the media capture extremes to paint the conflict in a specific light? Did we see a spectacle, like some re-enactment? Or was there a real process underneath it? In postmodern times we have to ask these questions to understand the context of the event.
The purpose of these *questions* is not to achieve an 'answer' but to relish the morass. They are questions, Sweet Breeze, of a man who cannot make his way through the media maze, but morover a man who has within himself lost his footing and capacity to define. If he could define, he could see. But he cannot define because he has no available solid *ground* from which to speak and on which to locate himself.

Beyond any shadow of doubt there is a way and a means to arrive at a clear, if necessarily tentative and open, set of definitions about 'what is going on' in the US right now (and then to speak of 'what is going on' in other places and to unravel them and explain them). What is in fact required in that situation --- and I speak as one who metaphysically sides with the so-called fascists and the identitarians because I see this as meta-political --- is to avoid postmodernistic swamps and to get to a higher and more solid ground.

Will you, my fearless one, continue to advocate for me and my return? and will you, fearless verbal white warrior, continue to advocate for clear and rationalistic *seeing* of these events in this most strange of times?

Yes to all the above!
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:10 pm

I can't help but wonder what talking to Alex in real life would be like, lol.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:14 pm

I'm available on Skype 24/7/364.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Santiago Odo wrote:364
Not on Christmas or your birthday??

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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:18 pm

Santiago Odo wrote:Will you, my fearless one, continue to advocate for me and my return?
Last time I checked she was posting still fine if not brief at this forum. Just like you and John the Seeker. Perhaps I'm too weak.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:25 pm

It may be of interest to know that yesterday both the Red Ice websites were hacked and put out of commission yesterday.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by JohnJAu » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:29 pm

Hey, mine was a time suggestion vacation/break ban.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:17 am

Once the goop is cleaned away, questions can be formed on these topics:
So what I'm proposing is to label this conflict as expression of whitening. 1] Did it really start with the renaming and removal of the iconic past? And more fundamentally, 2] was it even a real conflict? 3] Did the media capture extremes to paint the conflict in a specific light? 4] Did we see a spectacle, like some re-enactment? 5] Or was there a real process underneath it? 6] In postmodern times we have to ask these questions to understand the context of the event.

7] Why did Charlottesville’s city council vote on the removal? This was linked to the social unrest after the racist mass murder by white local white supremacist Dylann Roof. 8] But generally it's being argued the Confederates were "on the wrong side of history", and should be remembered but not revered on a pedestal. In addition not to embolden the Dylann Roofs of the world.

And 9] why did Richard Spencer say the protest and burning torches was "a way to communicate with the dead" and mentioned the "beauty of that spectacle of flames at night". The undertones of a destructive desire? Or a child's memory of the display of fireworks? He adds, as to confirm his postmodern dedication: 10] "It’s a beautiful aesthetic".

Food for thought. 11] Is it violence to re-appropriate the past and its symbols? 12] Does it even make sense to keep a losing side, a losing idea alive? As it might keep resentment burning for generations. See and try to apply this on the issues in the Middle East.

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Diebert van Rhijn » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:13 am

JohnJAu wrote:Hey, mine was a time suggestion vacation/break ban.
As they all were. When someone rejoins and writes like a human being again, I translate it as apology ;-)
Santiago Odo wrote:Once the goop is cleaned away, questions can be formed on these topics
It ends up being nearly as long as the original post. That's because I come way quicker to the point than you do. Point in case, replicating everything in yet another post and in the mean time trying to start a discussion on bans in the same thread. Focus!

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Re: White men, European genetics, masculinity and genius

Post by Santiago Odo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:23 am

So what I'm proposing is to label this conflict as expression of whitening. 1] Did it really start with the renaming and removal of the iconic past? And more fundamentally, 2] was it even a real conflict? 3] Did the media capture extremes to paint the conflict in a specific light? 4] Did we see a spectacle, like some re-enactment? 5] Or was there a real process underneath it? 6] In postmodern times we have to ask these questions to understand the context of the event.

7] Why did Charlottesville’s city council vote on the removal? This was linked to the social unrest after the racist mass murder by white local white supremacist Dylann Roof. 8] But generally it's being argued the Confederates were "on the wrong side of history", and should be remembered but not revered on a pedestal. In addition not to embolden the Dylann Roofs of the world.

And 9] why did Richard Spencer say the protest and burning torches was "a way to communicate with the dead" and mentioned the "beauty of that spectacle of flames at night". The undertones of a destructive desire? Or a child's memory of the display of fireworks? He adds, as to confirm his postmodern dedication: 10] "It’s a beautiful aesthetic".

Food for thought. 11] Is it violence to re-appropriate the past and its symbols? 12] Does it even make sense to keep a losing side, a losing idea alive? As it might keep resentment burning for generations. See and try to apply this on the issues in the Middle East.
Commentary to 'question' No. 1: It most certainly did not start with the removal of monuments. To understand causation would involve a thorough historical revision. The reaction that is now becoming apparent is one that rises out of the social body and that social body is the white demographic. However, what is unraveling in the present is a group of narratives that were put in motion in the aftermath of the Second War. One has to turn back to 'social engineering' projects which came out of successful military programs. It has a good deal to do with the way that the *world* was managed in the war's aftermath. The division into managed regions, the cold planning in governmental backrooms. The way that the postwar world evolved and the collusion between the indellectual class and those who guided and set in motion the major narratives has to be looked at.

Much of the criticism that is now visible can be tied back to criticism of Roosevelt and deliberate shift toward certain socialistic forms. Also, if you wish to understand the antisemitic and Jewish-critical aspect you have to look there. Consider Benjamin Freedman and his profound criticism of this historical juncture. How does one manage all this? How does one get clear about it? How does one sort out what is 'true' from what is 'false'?

However, in my own view, the Second War is a further *symptom* of what happened as a result of the American Civil War. So one could extend it back to that time. Even if one wanted to pursue the Marxian angle. Marx wrote about the American Civil War interestingly enough. My own view is that the destruction of the American South can be understood in the series of projecting octaves when one analyses America's successive wars. There are studies about the Phillipine War which trace destructive influences and movements back to that conflict. But the point of this would only be to illustrate how military and industrial factions work in collusion. But they need a Guiding Narrative. And what is that Guding Narrative? And who handles it, who packages it, and who establishes it in the mind and in the sentiments of people? In my own view, when the South was destroyed the more authentic *core* of America was destroyed and the republic that came into being a sort of 'second republic'.

One can look at the American Civil War as a prototype 'social engineering project', and then notice how the project has continued and has evolved to be a redefinition of America through the terms that most people recognize today. That is, the narrative that supports all the views of 'the American civil religion'. To understand this 'America' one has to understand 'the American civil religion'. So, it is not a surprise that now, at this later date, and with the demographics having been radically shifted (through intentional choices) that the new population would want to root out those old symbols. As the mass social engineering project continues forward and as the Multi-Cultural Walmart culture as a model for the Earth as brought to that world by the Americanopolis, there is resistance. And this resistance is visceral and 'in the body'. It is not only happening in America but in different ways in different places. But the reaction is real and it is genuine. (Except for the true postmodernist who can regard nothing at all as being 'real').

The statues are, of course, just symbols. But the underlying issues which are coming to the fore are real, very real. It literally has to do with 'reclaiming ownership of the country'. If that is to be carried forward toward conclusiveness, the implications are extremely significant. But it involves a channeling of 'will' that may in fact be too demanding. In order to have the sort of 'will' that I am referring to means to cross over inside of oneself to a new vista. That vista can be described as meta-political. What happens now, today, has to be seen from some distance and height. As for example in Australia (from what I have read): the lamentation of the asianification of the country. If it is happening, what would and what could stop it? Who would carry it out? How? How could that become a social project? How could it be justified, explained?

But once the Idea has become established, once a person can think the thought, and once what he things is intelligible to him and makes sense, then the next steps become clear. But they do not become clear until that point is reached.

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