Satan

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Blair
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Re: Satan

Post by Blair »

mensa-maniac wrote:Satan made Keith Richards snort his dead fathers ashes, he admitted to doing that, then, denied doing it the next day.
Who, Satan or Keith Richards?
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Keith Richards snorted his fathers ashes with cocaine, he admitted it. I read it in the news about 10 months ago. He must have received alot of opinions on that because the next day or two, he denied it.

That's what a seriously drugged up brain does to people--makes them do ridiculous things, like their brain is seriously warped.

Talk about ruining their holy temple, their bodies are fried not holy!
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Animus wrote:See, now, this is the thing. I came home last night after work at 12:00AM. I brought some Alleve at my girlfriends request. I ran out of work earlier in the night to get it and some mouthwash for her. When I got home, she was sleeping, but I went to give her the Alleve and say goodnight to her. Normally I come to bed a few hours later, so I'm not crashing as soon as I get home. The other thing is I take Nexium for the acid and bile problem I have and I forgot to take it yesterday. Another thing I had to do was medicate my cat with Tetracycline for Chlamydia. It needs to be done 3 times a day and she was due. I've pretty much been doing all that chore myself too. So, I didn't stick around, I went to medicate myself and Lila (the cat). Then I replied to this thread and read a few chapters of A History of God by Karen Armstrong. When I went to bed, I set the alarm for 8:15AM. She works at 10AM, and I have to get up to drive her to work since she was in an accident totaling her vehicle. The accident happened on monday and she is pretty stiff, hence the Alleve. When I went to bed she tossed and turned, looked at me a few times with contempt, said some things that seemed pointless until finally complaining "I wish you would think to give me a massage when I need it." and I thought aloud "Or you could just ask me kindly to give you a massage and I would do it, instead of expecting me to have it mind already." and this went to her saying "Well, if you loved me you would think about these things. I just had an accident and I'm stiff, you should be thinking about me." to which I argued "I do think about you, but I can't reasonably be expected to do so all the time, or to always focus on what you need." to which she retorts "But I give you everything you need." and I "You don't really give the most essential things that I would benefit from. You do minute tasks for me here and there, just as I do for you. But in terms of venerating Truth and making that a part of your focus, you don't really." To which she claimed "I spent 40 hours reading stuff that you wrote trying to understand it." and I said "But you don't really understand it or why it is so prominent in my mind. In other words you aren't equipped to be truly empathic to me and the existentialist dilemmas I face, but expect me to drop them whenever you have a stubbed toe or a tense shoulder." to which she said "I was just in an accident." and I "That was three days ago, and I've given you a few massages and attended to you in many other ways." and she "Oh, you brought me Alleve, big deal."

I'm paraphrasing what happened a lot, but it eventually resulted in some fairly insane behavior. Knife wielding, screaming, suicidal and homicidal behavior. If she yelled at me and I responded with how I felt and/or thought, she got angrier and angrier, if I attempted to submit to her, she became suicidal. I even explicitly asked her "What is it you would like me to do?" and she said "Care about me, but you can't even do that. You aren't there for me when I need you." and I would say "I'm here for you now, if you want a massage just ask me and I'll be happy to." and her "But you should already want to do it without me asking you." and round and round.

I maintained that I'm only human, though I care about her, and as a consequence do many things for her, I can not reasonably be expected to always do the things she would like or those which she considers to be most important. Without her explicitly asking me I only do the things that occur to me. Massages do not occur to me because the first time I ever received one myself was about a year ago when she gave it to me, and outside of how the massage itself felt, I didn't feel anymore relaxed. All my life, massages haven't played a part, I used to laugh at the frequency people required massaging when I dealt with muscle tension simply by enduring it. So it simply doesn't ever occur to me to ask for or give a massage.
Mensa says: I bet she's not a knife weildler when she is displaying normal behavior. Unless, she saw her parents do that, then, that's bad, really bad. It becomes normal then, in a dsyfunctional way. You've got to put a stop to her knife weildling act, by talking to her when she's of normal mind. Let her know she's no killer, tell her you know she couldn't really plunge that blade in you. Make sure you end the lecture with knowing in your heart that you've taken care of the problem, so she won't do that again! That's violence that you must put a stop to immediately, otherwise, you may just become another statistic in a rage of violence! Hormones contribute to erractic, out-of-control behavior.

"Never answer and angry word with an angry word, it's the second that makes the quarrel"
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Blair
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Re: Satan

Post by Blair »

What a hypocritical, meddlesome ass.
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Blair wrote:What a hypocritical, meddlesome ass.
Mensa says: It's not meddlesome bird-brain, when it's volunteered. Do you think when someone weilds a knife around that it's ok to do that? She needs to be stopped or one day she'll do it again and again until she actually does use it in a fit of violent rage!

It's violence to weild around a knife, or do you think it's playtime?
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Blair
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Re: Satan

Post by Blair »

Douche-rat Scum-bat.

Satan is talking with you.
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Yeah, bird brain, it's not Satan talking to me saying don't talk to Blair anymore because he's to childish and cannot be cordial, it is the good within me that says stay away from bird brain, he's useless as tits on a bull!

I'm not going to speak or respond to you anymore until you can smarten the fuck up!
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Blair
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Re: Satan

Post by Blair »

phat cow aha. ahahaha.
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Just for the record, I'm no phat cow. I'm only 110 lbs lean and atheletic body. I had a little bit of fat around my waist because of a recent thyoid discovery, but, it's gone now. I bike and walk daily to keep in shape, and I'm in better health and shape than most people!
cousinbasil
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Re: Satan

Post by cousinbasil »

mensa wrote: I had a little bit of fat around my waist because of a recent thyoid discovery, but, it's gone now.
They recently discovered your thyroid, and now it's gone. How sad.
Animus
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Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

I think the previous dialog can serve as an example of "Satan".

I mean no offense, but, to perpetuate discord, in whatever form, for the sake of discord, is an emmanation of the Satanic psyche. Even if that perpetuation is carried out in self-defense, which it most often is.

Let me relate back to my dealings with my girlfriend. When she has accused me of some heinous intention, I have immediately, in reactive fashion, either defended myself or defended what I perceive as the Truth. Whenever I do this, the conflict escalates and continues. Even if I am in the absolute right in terms of what is True and False, she is being dominated by (Satanic) emotional and thought patterns which are not open to reason or appeals to Truth. I know this, and by fighting against her I myself deny the Truth of the matter. The Truth being that she, or anyone else, in that frame cannot be reasoned with, all attempts merely stoke the fire. My stoking the fire is a denial of the Truth. I must act appropriate to her and not treat her contrary to the truth of her condition. This may make me even more responsible than she, but to compare myself to her, and perpetuate the conflict on the basis that I am more right than she is, is simply another method by which the satanic thinking perpetuates itself. I may choose to leave, but I can't choose to deny the truth about her frame of mind in any given moment. And at times, choosing to leave, also escalates the problem.

Paradoxically, what works best is a loving touch; although she usually starts off rejecting it. After a while, rational discussion becomes possible, but it is always fraught with the possibility of turning awry again. The reality of the situation is this however.
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

cousinbasil wrote:
mensa wrote: I had a little bit of fat around my waist because of a recent thyoid discovery, but, it's gone now.
They recently discovered your thyroid, and now it's gone. How sad.
I used the word discovered when I knew perfectly well it was wrong to use it, I even went so far as to change the word to problem instead, but, I changed my mind and left it at discovered, since they not only discovered I had a thyroid problem but also diagnosed the problem! Somehow I just knew I would get feedback on that! Maybe I'm psychic, ay! Psychic Satan, how's that for my next alias name?
Satan
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Re: Satan

Post by Satan »

When I read this stuff on the internet my heart sank meaning made me want to vomit. It made me have to confront the reality of the situation square. I keep saying/seeing that he has a negative attitude towards me, or considers himself so be superior, etc. He says, no he only says that stuff when he's mad and doesn't mean it. It's me with the negative attitude towards him (which I can admit, I have some that I continually knock down.) But now here it is out for everyone to see and in writing so I can't deny it to myself any longer. During our recent discussions, he denied the things he said here, not knowing I had read it.

As he quoted me this week from Sufi quotes, "Whatever we perceive in the world around us tends to reflect who we are and what we care about most deeply", as in the old saying, "When a thief sees a saint, all he sees are his pockets."" So if he wants to see me as Satan and forgo the inquiry into himself, then that is all he will see. I suppose I will have to move out until he can start to look at me objectively, like another struggling human being as well. But if you already think you are correct, then you won't re-examine yourself to see me correctly anyways. There really isn't anything I can do, and the sooner I realize and embody that, the sooner things will seem less disparaging.

Yes it's true, I've almost killed myself several times, notice myself is the key here. I don't try to kill him. I yell and scream and tell him I hate him, tell him to go smoke, tell him to fuck off. I've pushed him, pulled his hair, but I haven't ever really hurt him, hurt him. Yes, he should rightly never talk to me again. Yes that is all Satan exuding from me. But, he made it sound like I am going to hurt him and didn't correct Donna when she took it like that, that is also Satan.

He doesn't mention his reactions to these situations where he is being Satan, which is much more appropriate because there he might have a better look/inquiry into what is going on sub-level. His focus should be directed inwards, but always seems to be about everyone else. I've been thrown against a few walls, had some cracked ribs, whiplash, etc. Why isn't he being honest, sincere and open about that? Why is that not the examples of choice, ever? Satan protecting himself? I probably would be healing a lot faster without the few whip rounds. So how about that massage? He can only project or estimate why I am doing something, even if I try to talk to him, he ultimately thinks he knows better. You can always find someone to say they sympathize, if you wear your heart out on your sleeve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3GtAnO66o

I explained that I feel like a sprawling net with gapping holes punched through it and I just needed him to back off, but then he threatens to leave and if I can't handle him coming at me with criticism then I'm worthless in his eyes. But all criticism directed at him, always is your mis-assumption, much like what happened today/yesterday with Elizabeth Isabelle. She pointed out the similarity, I was like, exactly. Maybe I won't have to post at all, maybe this community will call him on his crap, but then he did the exact same thing which makes perfect sense too, I didn't think she would go for it and give him the compliment/validation he was looking for to boot. People tend to say, this is not what I am doing, while doing it. He didn't objectively look at the criticism but instead perceived bias on her part. He then appeals to the need to giving the benefit of the doubt. The other person does this, assumes he gets the point and then he goes right back into another example with me in it. It is my reality dancing before me. In each example with me used on this forum he is not giving me the benefit of the doubt.

See full FB example:
"Amanda Lahay: It's a interesting post. A few hours ago, you said to me that I don't get excited by truth. Other people seem to get excited about the ideas/truths you present, but instead you see me get excited about nature. Which you seemed to indicate was a disappointment to you and a downfall of mine. Then you post above, which to me (paraphrasing) says that nature is reality is god is truth. So then you have your answer. I am excited about truth because I get so excited about nature. You won't even watch a nature program with me and the cats, it's a waste of time to you, where as it always amazes me. If I can see rules of reality through studying various species and their strategies and get excited by that, it's better than any ideas/truths presented because it's a living walking embodiment of truth with the purest unbiased examples. The buffalo doesn't care what I think or isn't going to change for me, it's just is. It has no delusions of choice but lives the rules of reality and there's no ego inside confusing the buffalo with grandiose ideas."

Ryan Shirk: Sure, the Westboro Baptist Church believes in "God" too, so all of their devotion must be legit. I don't care how much Attenborough you watch, the chances are you aren't going to become enlightened doing it. My posts were about the thing referred to in the usage of terms like nature and God and had nothing to do with specific devotional practices. Watching Hyenas, Lions and Vultures all have a turn at a dying zebra is not going to make everything clear to me. Not to mention, I've already seen that episode...

Amanda Lahay: I don't think nature has a "devotion" to be legit or not either It just
is. That's why it is such a good example of reality. Nor did I claim it
was the ultimate path to enlightenment, but those are some great non
sequitur. You kind of have to know the principles or what you are looking
for and then in appears everywhere and unadulterated in nature. It can be
a great teacher. Yes indeed the terms are interchangeable as I stated above when paraphrasing your comments and agreeing with you. My comment had
nothing to do with devotional practices but more was about how you used me getting excited about nature as being an example of how I'm not enlightened
and then went on line and posted a bunch of posts on nature and how it is
the same as reality, truth and God. Well then what is your problem with me being excited over it? If they are as interchangeable as you are stating
then how come that doesn't apply in our conversation? Should I reverse that
and be judging you for how not excited you are by nature? It may not make everything clear, but it does bring you back to the basics and makes you recognize how brutal that really can be, but also how beautiful and complete
it is as well. Watching nature puts me back in unision that we are all part
of one big whole. It's so evident in nature. I doubt you've seen many
episodes as you comment above alludes to. Ever tried to be each
animal while watching, trying to full understand what it would be like,
watching yourself empathize with different animals and demonize others like
we do with people. It perfectly illustrated that point for me last week,
when I felt this disgust for the hyena that I had to address. In a person,
we often say, well they deserve that because such and such, but how
can I say that about a hyena, it just is. Same goes for the person, if you fully understand. But if you already think you've seen that episode, you
have that down, then you will have a closed mind. Your comment is very indicative of a closed mind.
He then goes on Genius Forums and says: Her response has way more to do with our personal relationship than it has to do with the point I was making. But I notice how it ties many threads together into a gross justification for lazying around on the couch watching David Attenborough while claiming to be performing spiritual work."
Where is the benefit of the doubt? Fact: I've only watched 5x45minute episodes in the last 2 months of nature programming. I put it on sometimes to pass out to. Sometimes they get me thinking other times I pass out. He also neglects that I would be watching something else, but I am specifically watching those because he expressed he is not interested. So instead of us watching things were both interested in separately we try to watch those together. Where is the pursuit of truth? I pointed out an inconsistency and you get hung up that I wasn't directly responding to what you said. You stop responding to me there and go and complain about me where you think I am not reading saying I don't get truth because I keep relating it back to you and I? I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, it has nothing to do with our relationship. This sort of pointing out is usually is accompanied by a rise of Satan and that indeed is what happened when you came here.

He really isn't depicting truth in his posts or giving me the benefit of the doubt at all. Yes, I wasn't addressing his thread. I was addressing the inconsistency. He says, he wants people to call him and point out these things, he is open to criticism, yet is not. He avoided my criticism, as he avoided Elizabeth Isabel (sorry he told me your name before, but I can't recall right now.)
Satan
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Re: Satan

Post by Satan »

He then goes on Genius Forums and says: Her response has way more to do with our personal relationship than it has to do with the point I was making. But I notice how it ties many threads together into a gross justification for lazying around on the couch watching David Attenborough while claiming to be performing spiritual work."
Where is the benefit of the doubt? Fact: I've only watched 5x45minute episodes in the last 2 months of nature programming. I put it on sometimes to pass out to. Sometimes they get me thinking other times I pass out. He also neglects that I would be watching something else, but I am specifically watching those because he expressed he is not interested. So instead of us watching things were both interested in separately we try to watch those together. Where is the pursuit of truth? I pointed out an inconsistency and you get hung up that I wasn't directly responding to what you said. You stop responding to me there and go and complain about me where you think I am not reading saying I don't get truth because I keep relating it back to you and I? I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, it has nothing to do with our relationship. This sort of pointing out is usually is accompanied by a rise of Satan and that indeed is what happened when you came here.

He really isn't depicting truth in his posts or giving me the benefit of the doubt at all. Yes, I wasn't addressing his thread. I was addressing the inconsistency. He says, he wants people to call him and point out these things, he is open to criticism, yet is not. He avoided my criticism, as he avoided Elizabeth Isabel (sorry he told me your name before, but I can't recall right now.)

I agree with Elizabethe Isabel here:
I think that it is precisely the "thou shalt not compliment" attitude that is fostered here that leads to misunderstandings sometimes. Compliments are part of the cultural meme, possibly even part of the human hard-wiring, that balance out the criticisms. We keep a subconscious tally of how many positive strokes vs how many negative pokes we get, and the general direction they come from. The balance, range, frequency, and direction tell us things on a different level than just the words and logical weighing of the words will tell us.

If we actually list both the positive and negative, it seems more like a critique because it is more balanced. If only negative and neutral inquiry are expressed and silence means either it is understood and there is nothing wrong with it or that it or the poster is too bad to be worthy of a response, or maybe the thing kept silent about was never even noticed - the negative starts to ring much more loudly and the inferred meaning is more likely to become skewed.

I think that is what has happened in our relations. He is very skewed and I've asked him to be more positive as the negativity is overwhelming sometimes, especially since I'm surrounded all day as well (entirely female workplace with harassment issues.) I also asked him to point out to me when I am doing something correctly. What he is lamenting is something I've said to him in the past. He has told me that I shouldn't need anything from him and anything I ask from him is taking away from him and I should be complete without any input from him. He purposely withheld things from me, and told me as much, and that is probably why he assuming I am doing the same. I'm sure my calling him names when angry doesn't help the skew either. I don't dote, because I'm not a doter, but I do say thanks.
"Heya,

Sorry that you were late. I tired both phones for awhile while
working, then I really had to get to work as I need help to even
finish on time today and have lunch.

Thanks for doing the car stuff though, I hope you don't get in too
much trouble. I arrived at 10:00 on the button. I seems to never
fail. I got up a half hour earlier then I normally do, because I
usually stay in bed with you, still on the button.

Thanks for getting groceries, cutting veggies, doing dishes, tidying
up, emptying garbages and making me coffee. I do appreciate it.

Have a great night,
Mandy"

or

"Thanks babe, for everything.

I really wish I had had the time to make you coffee in return.

I didn't do Lila's eyes because I was unsure about it (if you had or when she last had had) and I felt bad about last time and don't want to injure her.

Love you,
Mandy

Ps... the email of had had's...lol"

or

"Hello,


I'd like to say thank you for everything you did last night and the help that you have been providing me.


Thank you.


I'd also like to say sorry, for my spazzing. It sucks and makes me sad, and it's never what I wanted to do or have happen.



To think of how relaxing these days were meant to be for us both and how I made them into living hell for everyone involved, including Teal who came from out of town, makes me want to hate myself a lot, but I'm trying to be productive.


All I can think is, it's February, which means nothing, I know, but it can mean, let it go.


Start new and keep the focus on not being angry and when I want to get angry don't get angry but instead find empathy and compassion and spend the time trying to figure out why I felt anger for myself instead of trying to tell someone else something or prove something else to anyone. I think at this point I need my entire being to concentrate on taking care of myself and monitoring myself until I can reach an understanding or let some things go.


I'm sorry that I have said and done so many horrible things to you. It is true, that you are still trying to be by my side, even if I am having these problems that I am. Thanks for all your hard effort and thanks for remaining calm as much as you do.


Love,
Mandy"
These are all since I've been the last accident. That's what we do, is make ourselves look better. He knows this as well. But he is supposed to be the one who knows better because of his level of understanding. But the way he came on here an portrays me is insane/Satanic and when I try to point these things out, the classic moves come out/Satan. The one illustrated above and the truth card. I say it like that to make reference when you are arguing with someone and they pull out the God card. When I criticize him or point something out it turns to I don't care about truth enough because... fill in blank. There 's been a ton over the last year, the massage is like that too. I put something out there, he pulls the truth card. Why is he so intent on looking for me not getting it, how about examining himself?

I told him that I've been a douche, and what I was doing was actually trying to prove it to him. That is my insecurity. I was afraid of him leaving and he says I'm incapable of taking criticism so I would try hard. I spend too much time exercising, listening to music, watching nature programs, I don't get excited enough, I don't spend enough time doing this, I don't spend enough time doing that. Meanwhile, I only listen to music on the weekend, I only watched a few nature programs, I only exercised 2 times a week for an hour. Each time I would actually try and change my habit to show him that I was examining it. But that is fucked. Then Satan reigns and I am no longer myself and it doesn't matter how much I change because he is just incapable of seeing me. It's is never enough and there is nothing I can do to change it, except stop supporting it, which is what I am going to do. He wants me to be this and be that and they are usually in contradiction. He doesn't love me or anyone as he is too busy trying to shape it instead of understand, listen or empathize with others existentialist dilemmas.


I've accepted that this is a major no no and that me posting this could be my head, literally, but definitely the end of our relations. I care enough now to show you even at the very real possibility of this being terminal, but then again, it always is, isn't it.
Satan
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:21 am

Re: Satan

Post by Satan »

In reference to the WHEN incident - "
To my mind, I'm not trying to ask stupid questions, nor am I deliberately ignoring what she said the night before. It was just a very common human short-coming. None of us have perfect memories, though we might be deluded into thinking that we do. For one, it is possible for someone to maintain they are correct even in the face of being wrong, this happens all the time, to save ones own ego. But, even what my girlfriend said to me there, the snappy-ness with which she said it, seems to indicate I must be some kind of deliberate asshole or moron to warrant such a response. And her reasons for reacting as such, is because she felt the need to protect her own ego from my potential criticism, which to be perfectly honest, was simply a question I asked out of ignorance. She is primed to receive criticism and defend herself against it, so even a simple question like that can turn into a falling out. "
How come it has to be that I think he's a moron for asking, again where is the benefit of the doubt here? Even though I've stated several times this is not the case. How come it can't be that I am a struggling human that had a rough day and has a problem with tone? If he isn't trying to be a moronic asshole, then it follows that I'm not trying to be a snappy bitch. If I point this out I am justifying my snappiness and even if after a few conversations where he seems to agree, I find some posting on the internet where he has reverted back. It's very hard to spend the time and energy to try and come to an understanding with someone, when you are already tapped, to have them ignore it or not be able to even follow you through any conversation. If he thinks I'm in capable of in-depth conversations, then he will refuse to engage in them with me or forget the numerous ones we have had. This maddening cycle is what make me seek death/rest, when I should just seek perspective. Also of course I'm primed to receive criticism, you've made sure of it.

"Something happened to her which causes her to lose it whenever I say anything. Even if I'm making dinner, it will be, "Don't take the vegetables out of the freezer yet, they can wait a few minutes while everything else cooks." with a kind of snarly attitude. She can't just let me do it or suggest kindly that I leave the vegetables in the freezer. It comes across as if I've committed a gross injustice upon her soul because I took the veggies out too early and they might thaw out a bit before being put back in. Yet, I've had countless discussions with her about trusting me and believing in me, so as not to make such assumptions and to treat me with respect. Don't assume I'm deliberately fucking up, I'm human, I make mistakes and I am ignorant of a lot of things. When she snaps at me as if I was a deliberate fool it implies some element of freedom which I do not believe exists. It is a delusion as far as I'm concerned."
Again, is it that I have a snarly attitude or that he is receiving it that way? He is talking like I am doing a gross injustice on his soul because he didn't like the way I said, that we don't need the vegetables yet. His response was, "See, I knew I was going to do something to mess up." When he implies that I am snapping on purpose it implies some element of freedom which I do not believe exists. It's a delusion as far as I'm concerned.
"She is so hopelessly dependent on me now because I have debased her entire world-view (which she explicitly denies happening) and at the same time finds no security in me, because I offer none, explaining to her that it is not in my power to offer her security. Overtly, what I've always wanted, was for her to realize that what is, is, and all this other stuff is nonsense. There is no need for security, because there is nothing to secure. She read Alan Watts "Wisdom of insecurity" and understands a lot of good philosophy, but she constantly fails and then reflects on the failure with self-hate and embarrassment. This is the nature of the beast, her self-hate and embarrassment are just two more facets of the same disease. They seal the deal, and take away the persons life, or cast them into a hellish despair with no foreseeable end or beginning(Eternal despair/Hell). That is a quality of despair, it grips the person so that the past and future are obscured. "There is no hope, nor has there ever been." "My whole life sucks". "Nothing has ever gone well for me." "What is the point in living?" Pride, envy, and so forth are like gateways leading into this ultimate despair that ruins many lives. The beast is not something which is overcome by typical human friendships. They are usually rife with satanic influence."
I was well on the path to disillusionment when I started down this path with Ryan. He is just unwilling to accept it. When I used to mention Allan Watts to him on the phone he discounted him, same with Professor Anton (youtube) and taking him seriously, I started to re-evaluate if they were not good sources only to have him later tell me I'm not serious about truth because I don't spend enough time listening to people like these. I understand there is no security, but obviously wasn't accepting it by not standing up for truth even until the bitter end. I'm sorry that I put myself ahead of you for so long. Me talking to myself almost a year ago, at this time he was telling me I always had something bugging me or wrong. Seems to be reversed now.
To do or not to do.....
Amanda Lahay to me
show details 3/22/10
That is the question.

I have concerns, issues.

You know it, it shows.

I can keep my mouth shut and act a bit weird from time to time or as you would say "moody".
Which is really just me forgetting what is bothering me temporarily or trying my best to move past it for the time being with varied success.
As you may have noticed from the weekend it is now bleeding into face to face interactions.

Or

I can say something and invoke the wrath of Ryan.
In the end it will be my fault for having these concerns and issues as only you are allowed to question anything.
It will be another time that I have brought something up as there is always something wrong with me. You are longing for me to not say anything for a few months. (But then say, Crystal and I would never have these heart to hearts)
It will be all turned around to be my issue and then what I was trying to say is never really addressed. As I usually readily accept ownership over my contributions to a situation.
After I start to get over the wrath of Ryan, I again realize these issues and concerns.

Only you are allowed to have issues and question them.
When I do, I am implanting issues and ideas into your head. (IE, maybe you wouldn't feel this way if I didn't say it all the time, meaning mentioned it twice)
If I don't, I am accused of not thinking about them enough (IE, you don't seem to care or think about these things)

With all this going on, it is no wonder that we interact like we are in competition.
I don't want to be, I just want us to sort it out and move on.
I for the most part assume you to be correct, to have most things figured out and to be further along the progression than me. I am disappointed and dumbfounded when I see evidence to the contrary and concerned when I see you veiling these things as truths. I guess that's how it works though and why we have these issues. I don't see myself and you don't see you. We both want to tell each other to help each other, but it never is received like that. We are both in self-deceit, but at least I can admit it.

Maybe the best thing for me to do is to watch, observe and decide. That's the best I can do from my end, keeping my mouth shut.
This is only a partial leak.
I thought I would give you a chance for input if you have other ideas or other ways to resolve.
I would try to talk to you, but it doesn't seem like that is what you want in the end as you are highly discouraging of it.
It will also mean that you would be spending time thinking about other things than what you want to.
Also it means that I invoke the wrath of Ryan, and honestly I don't know how much more of that I can take. Is it worth the return attack as you lash back at me all the while claiming you have no you to do this, obsolving yourself and placing the blame on me for bringing up the issue. How is that growing? I grow.. I grow by dealing with the person I care about most saying the hardest things to hear. That can be fruitful, but then now I don't know when you are being truthful and giving an honest criticism or whether it's the egoless man's ego attacking me.

I guess in the end, I should let you worry about you right and I'll worry about me. I have my own set of issues that contribute. Watch, listen, decide all while learning and growing myself. It's just too bad we can be a team like I thought we would be.
I guess it is in a way every man for himself. As you say it's just you and reality and everything and everybody else is circumstantial.

Best of luck!
"I've realized that she focuses a lot on whatever egotistical motives may exist in me. Often that is not the case, and it only runs around in destructive circles as I try to tell her she is wrong....when she speaks, the first thing she says generally contains an implicit claim about my motives which I cannot contest without cutting her off. Her time to speak is often a series of such statements which doesn't leave much room for my actual motives. Even though she has consumed a lot of philosophy and spent a lot of time in self-reflection, she hasn't seemed to get the critical thing. She is no better than me, and shouldn't be assuming that I am some kind of deliberate moron. We have moronic moments and some of us are full-time morons, but nobody deliberately goes out of their way to cause unnecessary suffering to the woman they supposedly love... Everything I do suggests I'm a fallible human being who loves her, but she can never see that. All my faults wind her up and agitate her and get her snarly with me. Satan."
How many assumptions have you made on this board about me and my ego without giving me any room for my actual motives? Are you not focused on the egotistical motives in me as shown by your posts? Even ones where you have conversed with me and agreed some faulty thinking. I'm not trying to purposely be a deliberate bitch and you shouldn't be assuming that I am either. A lot that you do mechanically suggest you love me, it's the other stuff like I have always maintain. You want me to trust you, I'd love to, but look what you have done here. What kind of trust is this? Even if you do change your mind, you don't come back and correct or say anything. You say, I'm a new person in each moment, I am too. Like I've said dozens of times recently, you are asking me to do what you aren't doing. Then you have the audacity to talk about women not being able to keep a secret while airing your dirty laundry or should I say mine, because you pick me, your mom, Ted, my sister, Teal, anyone else but you as the example. While claiming I maintain I'm perfect or something, hardly.
Satan
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:21 am

Re: Satan

Post by Satan »

"But of course, she is innocent. I am far smarter, and I know enough to figure all this out. That itself secures the beastly influence in its place. That is the basis of Biblical free-will. The only person who can subdue the beast, is the one whose mind is afflicted. The more I try to push my point of view on her, the more she hates herself. Of course, when I use allegory like "Satan" it tends to have a much harder impact, but that's the point itself. The truth hurts. We are all Satan in some respect until we've become completely liberated from sin, which is unlikely for anyone. At this point, she tends to think I'm playing the superiority card, because I'm wiser to this game than she is. She may glimpse what its all really about, but she gets stuck on feeling inferior to me. She doesn't want to accept a world-view where I am so much wiser. But she enjoys imparting her wisdom on me. "
I didn't mind having that view as you can see above in my email from a year ago. I do need to figure it out on my own and not submit to an authority anyways. My main problem arises with you not doing the very things you are telling me to do. If the actions aren't matching the words, I'm not going along. Well the words confuse me for awhile and then I catch back on, apparently. I am not imparting any wisdom as you clearly think and state I'm incapable, which would then make it so. You also aren't considering what I say and others because you are too busy imparting. Maybe you and the Jehovah witness guy have such great conversations because you both are trying to impart/convert and not actually talking. Neither of you are serious about changing your own view but both seeking to change the other.

You accuse Donna of the same, but don't mention your difficulties in not preaching to people. You don't mention your difficulties in not getting upset when people don't respond to your well drawn out ideas. You have a serious need to be heard and acknowledged that has a lot of problems. You get angry at people for not doing it when you want. Part of the reason for your post to Donna was that you spent a long time composing an argument for her and she was too hung up on her own ego and accomplishments to look at what you are saying. You said as much to me a week ago, kind of agitated. You get agitated at the entire board when no one responds and agitated at facebook and the people on there as well. I stay up until 1-2am to listen to you and if i try to go to bed, I don't care about the truth. I do, but I still need to fetch water and chop wood the next day and you certainly aren't running at the sleep deficit I am. It doesn't help me handle situations objectively and I'm too tired to search inward when I do have time to myself, a lot of the time.


"See, now, this is the thing. I came home last night after work at 12:00AM. I brought some Alleve at my girlfriends request. I ran out of work earlier in the night to get it and some mouthwash for her. When I got home, she was sleeping, but I went to give her the Alleve and say goodnight to her. Normally I come to bed a few hours later, so I'm not crashing as soon as I get home. The other thing is I take Nexium for the acid and bile problem I have and I forgot to take it yesterday. Another thing I had to do was medicate my cat with Tetracycline for Chlamydia. It needs to be done 3 times a day and she was due. I've pretty much been doing all that chore myself too. So, I didn't stick around, I went to medicate myself and Lila (the cat). Then I replied to this thread and read a few chapters of A History of God by Karen Armstrong. When I went to bed, I set the alarm for 8:15AM. She works at 10AM, and I have to get up to drive her to work since she was in an accident totaling her vehicle. The accident happened on monday and she is pretty stiff, hence the Alleve. When I went to bed she tossed and turned, looked at me a few times with contempt, said some things that seemed pointless until finally complaining "I wish you would think to give me a massage when I need it." and I thought aloud "Or you could just ask me kindly to give you a massage and I would do it, instead of expecting me to have it mind already." and this went to her saying "Well, if you loved me you would think about these things. I just had an accident and I'm stiff, you should be thinking about me." to which I argued "I do think about you, but I can't reasonably be expected to do so all the time, or to always focus on what you need." to which she retorts "But I give you everything you need." and I "You don't really give the most essential things that I would benefit from. You do minute tasks for me here and there, just as I do for you. But in terms of venerating Truth and making that a part of your focus, you don't really." To which she claimed "I spent 40 hours reading stuff that you wrote trying to understand it." and I said "But you don't really understand it or why it is so prominent in my mind. In other words you aren't equipped to be truly empathic to me and the existentialist dilemmas I face, but expect me to drop them whenever you have a stubbed toe or a tense shoulder." to which she said "I was just in an accident." and I "That was three days ago, and I've given you a few massages and attended to you in many other ways." and she "Oh, you brought me Alleve, big deal."

Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears. ~Marcus Aurelius
as copy and pasted from you Ryan.

I am to be empathetic to his stomach/health issues and his existentialist dilemmas, but he can't be empathetic that I am working my ass off and was in a car accident? How come, it's assumed that I don't have any existentialist dilemmas that he is to be empathetic to? I try to talk about them, but because my examples include work or other things, he just sees it as me whining about work.

Notice this as well:
A few weeks ago she got into a car accident and one night she dissapointedly rolled over in bed to say "I wish you would think to give me a massage when I am hurting." and I thought this was pretty demanding. She restated "No, I just wish you would." and I said "It still sounds like you are disappointed in me, as if its something I 'should' have thought of. The fact is, I've maybe received one massage in my whole life, and I've spent most of my life alone so massages just aren't a big part of my consciousness. It doesn't occur to me to get or give a massage. I just deal with muscle tension by enduring it." and she "But I was just in an accident!" and I "I understand, but that alone doesn't ensure the notion arises in my mind, if you want a massage kindly ask and I'll give you one." "But I shouldn't have to ask you, you should be concerned enough about me!" Finally I said "I wish you would show some excitement at some of the truths I uncover in my studies, you don't seem to show much excitement at ideas at all." and she "I'm sorry your ideas don't blow me away." and I "They aren't 'my' ideas, they are ideas or truths in abstraction, I don't want you to be blown away by 'my' ideas, I want you to understand them yourself, know them to be true and I wish you would feel some excitement at the same time, but you don't, and it's not up to you to fulfill that wish for me, but I think it would be in your best interest if you took truth a bit more seriously."
The story changed, things get added and deleted, as to be expected. But he skews the story to make whatever point he wants using me as the example. At first is was that I wasn't empathetic to his human condition, and in the second it was because I wasn't excited by the truths he was uncovering. I told you, he has a ton. It would be in your best interest if you took truth a bit more seriously too. I was actually coming to terms with the fact that you will never think to give me a massage. I've told you as much. I am tired and sore after running around all day, then I have to come home and shovel the lane because you can't and you won't ever think to give me a massage or offer. I realized if you aren't going to when I've been in a car accident and you are picking me up painkiller, then is it not coming to mind any time soon. It was clear to me, that desire had to die. I was accepting that was the reality of the situation, that was it's last breath, an utterance of, I wish you would, but an underlying thinking of I accept that you won't. He then assumed that I am trying to say he doesn't love me, wrong assumption, I correct immediately, only to be told that I don't take truth seriously because I don't feel empathetic towards the pain of his existence. He wants my empathy while not being empathetic to me at all. I get that loving unconditionally means that I keep having empathy for him even though he is unable to for me. Usually that is fine, but when I look for it with all these things is a row, it's been insane, he still isn't capable, and that is the stark reality.

It is true, there is lots that I do not get or embody myself, but each day brings a new reality. What I have been doing that shows the most that I am caught in egoism (outside of my outbursts, obviously) is changing myself instead of pushing back. That caused a lot of problems, and is not in the pursuit of truth. No longer will I bend or accept the tactics. If I have to move or leave, so be it. I need to be able to breathe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3SxCph5I1Q

1
5 “If your brother or sister[a] sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
I figured at this point these forums are as close to a church community as he has. So I will leave him in your hands as he might listen to you.

I do love you Ryan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uizQVriWp8M
Peace
cousinbasil
Posts: 1395
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Garment District

Re: Satan

Post by cousinbasil »

Welcome, Satan. I knew we'd meet eventually.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

Satan wrote:When I read this stuff on the internet my heart sank meaning made me want to vomit. It made me have to confront the reality of the situation square. I keep saying/seeing that he has a negative attitude towards me, or considers himself so be superior, etc. He says, no he only says that stuff when he's mad and doesn't mean it. It's me with the negative attitude towards him (which I can admit, I have some that I continually knock down.) But now here it is out for everyone to see and in writing so I can't deny it to myself any longer. During our recent discussions, he denied the things he said here, not knowing I had read it.
Welcome to Genius Forum "Satan". Members on here generally reveal their names. We do this so as to be held accountable to ourselves. My name is "Ryan Shirk".

I am apathetic about most of your concerns; yes. I find them to be delusional usually and/or trivial.
As he quoted me this week from Sufi quotes, "Whatever we perceive in the world around us tends to reflect who we are and what we care about most deeply", as in the old saying, "When a thief sees a saint, all he sees are his pockets."" So if he wants to see me as Satan and forgo the inquiry into himself, then that is all he will see. I suppose I will have to move out until he can start to look at me objectively, like another struggling human being as well. But if you already think you are correct, then you won't re-examine yourself to see me correctly anyways. There really isn't anything I can do, and the sooner I realize and embody that, the sooner things will seem less disparaging.
Had this thread been titled "Gabriel" I may have explored the times when you have brought wisdom to my heart. But this thread was titled "Satan" and that was the theme I was exploring.
Yes it's true, I've almost killed myself several times, notice myself is the key here. I don't try to kill him. I yell and scream and tell him I hate him, tell him to go smoke, tell him to fuck off. I've pushed him, pulled his hair, but I haven't ever really hurt him, hurt him. Yes, he should rightly never talk to me again. Yes that is all Satan exuding from me. But, he made it sound like I am going to hurt him and didn't correct Donna when she took it like that, that is also Satan.
If you've never truly hurt me, then you've never truly been hurt either. You try to exert physical force over me; throw solid objects at me, destroy my hard earned electronics, hold me to the wall and slap me, "unintentionally" burnt me in the eye, hit me in the head with a sack of quarters. No, you've never really hurt me... I could be missing a limb, I could be suffering from serious brain damage, and unless that were the case, I guess you've never really hurt me.
He doesn't mention his reactions to these situations where he is being Satan, which is much more appropriate because there he might have a better look/inquiry into what is going on sub-level. His focus should be directed inwards, but always seems to be about everyone else. I've been thrown against a few walls, had some cracked ribs, whiplash, etc. Why isn't he being honest, sincere and open about that? Why is that not the examples of choice, ever? Satan protecting himself? I probably would be healing a lot faster without the few whip rounds. So how about that massage? He can only project or estimate why I am doing something, even if I try to talk to him, he ultimately thinks he knows better. You can always find someone to say they sympathize, if you wear your heart out on your sleeve. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3GtAnO66o
Generally, the only time I have laid hands on you is in self-defense. You were holding me to the wall and slapping me, so I grabbed you around the arms and pushed you back onto the couch, then I left. I don't instigate violence and I try not to perpetuate it, I'm merely protecting myself from your physical domination.
I explained that I feel like a sprawling net with gapping holes punched through it and I just needed him to back off, but then he threatens to leave and if I can't handle him coming at me with criticism then I'm worthless in his eyes. But all criticism directed at him, always is your mis-assumption, much like what happened today/yesterday with Elizabeth Isabelle. She pointed out the similarity, I was like, exactly. Maybe I won't have to post at all, maybe this community will call him on his crap, but then he did the exact same thing which makes perfect sense too, I didn't think she would go for it and give him the compliment/validation he was looking for to boot. People tend to say, this is not what I am doing, while doing it. He didn't objectively look at the criticism but instead perceived bias on her part. He then appeals to the need to giving the benefit of the doubt. The other person does this, assumes he gets the point and then he goes right back into another example with me in it. It is my reality dancing before me. In each example with me used on this forum he is not giving me the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe you are looking for me to be full of "crap" whereas Elizabeth is going to listen to my own explanations for my own actions. You do not accept my explanations unless they contain something worth dwelling on. If I tell you my intentions were not bad, you don't believe me, if I say they are/were bad I'll never hear the end of it.
See full FB example:
"Amanda Lahay: It's a interesting post. A few hours ago, you said to me that I don't get excited by truth. Other people seem to get excited about the ideas/truths you present, but instead you see me get excited about nature. Which you seemed to indicate was a disappointment to you and a downfall of mine. Then you post above, which to me (paraphrasing) says that nature is reality is god is truth. So then you have your answer. I am excited about truth because I get so excited about nature. You won't even watch a nature program with me and the cats, it's a waste of time to you, where as it always amazes me. If I can see rules of reality through studying various species and their strategies and get excited by that, it's better than any ideas/truths presented because it's a living walking embodiment of truth with the purest unbiased examples. The buffalo doesn't care what I think or isn't going to change for me, it's just is. It has no delusions of choice but lives the rules of reality and there's no ego inside confusing the buffalo with grandiose ideas."

Ryan Shirk: Sure, the Westboro Baptist Church believes in "God" too, so all of their devotion must be legit. I don't care how much Attenborough you watch, the chances are you aren't going to become enlightened doing it. My posts were about the thing referred to in the usage of terms like nature and God and had nothing to do with specific devotional practices. Watching Hyenas, Lions and Vultures all have a turn at a dying zebra is not going to make everything clear to me. Not to mention, I've already seen that episode...

Amanda Lahay: I don't think nature has a "devotion" to be legit or not either It just
is. That's why it is such a good example of reality. Nor did I claim it
was the ultimate path to enlightenment, but those are some great non
sequitur. You kind of have to know the principles or what you are looking
for and then in appears everywhere and unadulterated in nature. It can be
a great teacher. Yes indeed the terms are interchangeable as I stated above when paraphrasing your comments and agreeing with you. My comment had
nothing to do with devotional practices but more was about how you used me getting excited about nature as being an example of how I'm not enlightened
and then went on line and posted a bunch of posts on nature and how it is
the same as reality, truth and God. Well then what is your problem with me being excited over it? If they are as interchangeable as you are stating
then how come that doesn't apply in our conversation? Should I reverse that
and be judging you for how not excited you are by nature? It may not make everything clear, but it does bring you back to the basics and makes you recognize how brutal that really can be, but also how beautiful and complete
it is as well. Watching nature puts me back in unision that we are all part
of one big whole. It's so evident in nature. I doubt you've seen many
episodes as you comment above alludes to. Ever tried to be each
animal while watching, trying to full understand what it would be like,
watching yourself empathize with different animals and demonize others like
we do with people. It perfectly illustrated that point for me last week,
when I felt this disgust for the hyena that I had to address. In a person,
we often say, well they deserve that because such and such, but how
can I say that about a hyena, it just is. Same goes for the person, if you fully understand. But if you already think you've seen that episode, you
have that down, then you will have a closed mind. Your comment is very indicative of a closed mind.
I posted the same ideas here in the thread "Comparitive Study of Denomination Quotations" notice that the general theme of the thread has nothing to do with you, nature shows or anything else a person does to arrive at or glorify reality. My thread has only to do with the specific concepts referred to when using the terms "Nature" and "God". You decided to use that as a springboard for a personal issue. You twisted its meaning around to the point that I appeared to be contradicting myself.
He then goes on Genius Forums and says: Her response has way more to do with our personal relationship than it has to do with the point I was making. But I notice how it ties many threads together into a gross justification for lazying around on the couch watching David Attenborough while claiming to be performing spiritual work."
Where is the benefit of the doubt? Fact: I've only watched 5x45minute episodes in the last 2 months of nature programming. I put it on sometimes to pass out to. Sometimes they get me thinking other times I pass out. He also neglects that I would be watching something else, but I am specifically watching those because he expressed he is not interested. So instead of us watching things were both interested in separately we try to watch those together. Where is the pursuit of truth? I pointed out an inconsistency and you get hung up that I wasn't directly responding to what you said. You stop responding to me there and go and complain about me where you think I am not reading saying I don't get truth because I keep relating it back to you and I? I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, it has nothing to do with our relationship. This sort of pointing out is usually is accompanied by a rise of Satan and that indeed is what happened when you came here.
You are entitled to watch Nature programming. By all means, I think it is great to learn about the animal kingdom. But I don't think this counts as having an epiphany or revelation into your own mind or the nature of reality. Watching these programs could be akin to eating a eucharist, by itself it doesn't mean anything. But primarily I've just said I don't care to watch those programs with you. Here is my reasoning; I've already seen a ton of those programs and have fairly extensive knowledge of animal behavior (part of my studies into human behavior draws on Evolutionary Psychology). My knowledge is broad enough that when I mentioned Toxoplasma Gondii to the veterinarian she asked "What's that?"
He really isn't depicting truth in his posts or giving me the benefit of the doubt at all. Yes, I wasn't addressing his thread. I was addressing the inconsistency. He says, he wants people to call him and point out these things, he is open to criticism, yet is not. He avoided my criticism, as he avoided Elizabeth Isabel (sorry he told me your name before, but I can't recall right now.)


I was illustrating a theme using my "girlfriend" as an embodied example. She wasn't suppose to read it and therefor there was no necessity to walk on egg-shells. Remember, my girlfriend thinks I overrate Genius forum, she is offended by David Quinn's Woman expose, and she thinks I have a crush on Kelly Jones because unlike my girlfriend Kelly can listen to theories about female psychology without getting her panties in a twist. But my "girlfriend" doesn't hear me disagreeing with Kelly either, though I've tried to point this out. My girlfriend is jealous of Kelly Jones, thinks Genius are misogynists and wouldn't have signed-up for this forum if not to defend her own self-image.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

Its going to take a while to respond to all of this. I have to run some tests for my job. I'll be working on this throughout the evening.
Satan
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:21 am

Re: Satan

Post by Satan »

I would ask that you start again and address what it is I am trying to say to you.

I've been open and honest as I can. I used my name, copy and pasted emails, etc to show you how you are conveying me is not giving me the benefit of the doubt and that you constantly deflect instead of reflect.

You still are veiling and defending. Look at what I am saying to you, get over making a point or the theme of the thread.

Quit lying to make youself seem better example: Hit you with a stack of quarters? I threw a pair of pants at you that had change in the pocket. How about the punching me in the leg 8 times? How is that self defense? I do tons of things to you, I admitted it, now please objectively look at yourself.

Please don't be lazy with the truth as I try hard not to especially when talking of others and you. You clearly are not. You are liberal with my intentions and what I think.

I have a biology degree and I think I can still learn more from watching nature and still do. Don't be closed.

I should be able to read anything where you are liberally telling a group of people what I am doing and saying. It is apparent what you think. You are attacking my character by referring to how I feel about people and things on this board as a way to discount me, fine discount away. I questioned you on Kelly because you talked about her a lot and you mentioned a few times that she thought we should break up. I instead checked out some of her youtube vids and left it at that.

Please instead of attacking my character address the contradictions in your own examples. Then you are actually addressing what it is I am conveying at the cost of our relations.

Thank you!

Love,
Amanda Lahay
aka Satan
mensa-maniac

Re: Satan

Post by mensa-maniac »

Good luck Animus, I wouldn't want the task you are about to embark upon.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

Satan wrote:He then goes on Genius Forums and says: Her response has way more to do with our personal relationship than it has to do with the point I was making. But I notice how it ties many threads together into a gross justification for lazying around on the couch watching David Attenborough while claiming to be performing spiritual work."
Where is the benefit of the doubt? Fact: I've only watched 5x45minute episodes in the last 2 months of nature programming. I put it on sometimes to pass out to. Sometimes they get me thinking other times I pass out. He also neglects that I would be watching something else, but I am specifically watching those because he expressed he is not interested. So instead of us watching things were both interested in separately we try to watch those together. Where is the pursuit of truth? I pointed out an inconsistency and you get hung up that I wasn't directly responding to what you said. You stop responding to me there and go and complain about me where you think I am not reading saying I don't get truth because I keep relating it back to you and I? I'm just pointing out the inconsistency, it has nothing to do with our relationship. This sort of pointing out is usually is accompanied by a rise of Satan and that indeed is what happened when you came here.
Great, so you know that Hyenas like to eat live zebra, they leave some of the animal behind for lions to feed on, and finally the vultures pick away at the bones. I knew this after reading 3 sentences on a wikipedia article. I didn't have to spend 45 minutes learning it. What I've said to you is not because of something I want, other than I want to surround myself with people who set their sights high. What I've said is that I would not personally spend the time, that much time, learning something so trivial. That 45 minutes could have been spent listening to John Dylan-Haynes explain how neuroscientists develop classifiers for preconscious phenomena in the human brain. That lecture probably would have forced you to consider all kinds of new possibilities and maybe challenged some of your assumptions about yourself and others. I've directed you towards plenty of programming including: 60 hours of conference material from Caltech and the University of UC San Diego on the existence of things like free-will and self-hood in the human brain. Did you watch any of this? Maybe a few minutes. I watched all 60 hours and still learned about the life-cycle of zebras. It's just the fact that you won't watch anything this difficult to understand. Your material is simple and largely empty. It works out to be mere entertainment a lot of the time.
He really isn't depicting truth in his posts or giving me the benefit of the doubt at all. Yes, I wasn't addressing his thread. I was addressing the inconsistency. He says, he wants people to call him and point out these things, he is open to criticism, yet is not. He avoided my criticism, as he avoided Elizabeth Isabel (sorry he told me your name before, but I can't recall right now.)
I am open to criticism, but many of your criticisms are just delusions you've created in order to justify your frustration or sense that I don't love you. I believe Elizabeth is here real name, the only name of hers I know.
I agree with Elizabethe Isabel here:
I think that it is precisely the "thou shalt not compliment" attitude that is fostered here that leads to misunderstandings sometimes. Compliments are part of the cultural meme, possibly even part of the human hard-wiring, that balance out the criticisms. We keep a subconscious tally of how many positive strokes vs how many negative pokes we get, and the general direction they come from. The balance, range, frequency, and direction tell us things on a different level than just the words and logical weighing of the words will tell us.

If we actually list both the positive and negative, it seems more like a critique because it is more balanced. If only negative and neutral inquiry are expressed and silence means either it is understood and there is nothing wrong with it or that it or the poster is too bad to be worthy of a response, or maybe the thing kept silent about was never even noticed - the negative starts to ring much more loudly and the inferred meaning is more likely to become skewed.
I agreed with this two and actually made this point to you about 6 months ago. Instead of accepting it, agreeing with me that is the proper way forward you snapped "If that's what you think, then why don't you do it?" and I said "I am trying to right now." and you said "If you are trying to do it then why don't you? Why don't you say anything positive?" and I replied "I tend to focus on problem solving and not on what is good, but I should be giving you compliments." and I believe I even continued to give you compliments afterward to show that I do recognize such things. At this you said "Then how come [some time ago] you did [x.y.z.]" and I said "Look, I'm just trying to take the correct approach going forward."

You don't like this, and continue to want to push the point of blame into the deepest recesses of my being, where it seems you can lasoo my sole and turn me into a slave. I don't know why you would push so hard for me to degrade myself instead of allowing me to take the right attitude forward.
I think that is what has happened in our relations. He is very skewed and I've asked him to be more positive as the negativity is overwhelming sometimes, especially since I'm surrounded all day as well (entirely female workplace with harassment issues.) I also asked him to point out to me when I am doing something correctly. What he is lamenting is something I've said to him in the past. He has told me that I shouldn't need anything from him and anything I ask from him is taking away from him and I should be complete without any input from him. He purposely withheld things from me, and told me as much, and that is probably why he assuming I am doing the same. I'm sure my calling him names when angry doesn't help the skew either. I don't dote, because I'm not a doter, but I do say thanks.
"Heya,

Sorry that you were late. I tired both phones for awhile while
working, then I really had to get to work as I need help to even
finish on time today and have lunch.

Thanks for doing the car stuff though, I hope you don't get in too
much trouble. I arrived at 10:00 on the button. I seems to never
fail. I got up a half hour earlier then I normally do, because I
usually stay in bed with you, still on the button.

Thanks for getting groceries, cutting veggies, doing dishes, tidying
up, emptying garbages and making me coffee. I do appreciate it.

Have a great night,
Mandy"

or

"Thanks babe, for everything.

I really wish I had had the time to make you coffee in return.

I didn't do Lila's eyes because I was unsure about it (if you had or when she last had had) and I felt bad about last time and don't want to injure her.

Love you,
Mandy

Ps... the email of had had's...lol"

or

"Hello,


I'd like to say thank you for everything you did last night and the help that you have been providing me.


Thank you.


I'd also like to say sorry, for my spazzing. It sucks and makes me sad, and it's never what I wanted to do or have happen.



To think of how relaxing these days were meant to be for us both and how I made them into living hell for everyone involved, including Teal who came from out of town, makes me want to hate myself a lot, but I'm trying to be productive.


All I can think is, it's February, which means nothing, I know, but it can mean, let it go.


Start new and keep the focus on not being angry and when I want to get angry don't get angry but instead find empathy and compassion and spend the time trying to figure out why I felt anger for myself instead of trying to tell someone else something or prove something else to anyone. I think at this point I need my entire being to concentrate on taking care of myself and monitoring myself until I can reach an understanding or let some things go.


I'm sorry that I have said and done so many horrible things to you. It is true, that you are still trying to be by my side, even if I am having these problems that I am. Thanks for all your hard effort and thanks for remaining calm as much as you do.


Love,
Mandy"
Generally I just don't ask much from you and you don't give me anything except what is important to you and projected onto me. Perhaps the most important thing to me is open rational discussion about truth and I've held Genius forum as the best place so far, you think the opposite of Genius, don't you? So how am I to feel like my need/desires are being met? You've done nothing but disregard, ignore and hate the various influences on my life that has transformed me from a sad-victim to someone with a bit of peace of mind. By all measurements, you seem to want to stay a sad-victim which could explain why you don't like anything that challenges you. Your desires/needs generally consist of physical contact, which is great if it actually mattered, but it doesn't. Our minds are so horribly separated that no amount of physical contact could fix that. I think you are more interested in yourself than truth and no amount of twisting what I say into a criticism of you is going to change that. No amount of touching me or giving me blowjobs is going to change the fact that you and are psychologically very different and the chasm is yawning wider.
These are all since I've been the last accident. That's what we do, is make ourselves look better. He knows this as well. But he is supposed to be the one who knows better because of his level of understanding. But the way he came on here an portrays me is insane/Satanic and when I try to point these things out, the classic moves come out/Satan. The one illustrated above and the truth card. I say it like that to make reference when you are arguing with someone and they pull out the God card. When I criticize him or point something out it turns to I don't care about truth enough because... fill in blank. There 's been a ton over the last year, the massage is like that too. I put something out there, he pulls the truth card. Why is he so intent on looking for me not getting it, how about examining himself?
Truth is not something you can appropriate easily and quickly. You certainly cannot sleep or dream yourself into the truth. No, you must be tried, do battle, and suffer if you are to acquire truth for yourself. It is a sheer illusion to think that in relation to truth there is an abridgment, a short cut that dispenses with the necessity of struggling for it. With respect to acquiring truth to live by, every generation and every individual essentially begin from the beginning. - Soren Kierkegaard

To merely "know" the truth is insufficient � it is an untruth. For knowing the truth is something that follows as a matter of course from being in the truth, not the other way around. Nobody knows more of the truth than what he is of the truth. To properly know the truth is to be in the truth; it is to have the truth for one�s life. This always costs a struggle. Any other kind of knowledge is a falsification. - Soren Kierkegaard
I told him that I've been a douche, and what I was doing was actually trying to prove it to him. That is my insecurity. I was afraid of him leaving and he says I'm incapable of taking criticism so I would try hard. I spend too much time exercising, listening to music, watching nature programs, I don't get excited enough, I don't spend enough time doing this, I don't spend enough time doing that. Meanwhile, I only listen to music on the weekend, I only watched a few nature programs, I only exercised 2 times a week for an hour. Each time I would actually try and change my habit to show him that I was examining it. But that is fucked. Then Satan reigns and I am no longer myself and it doesn't matter how much I change because he is just incapable of seeing me. It's is never enough and there is nothing I can do to change it, except stop supporting it, which is what I am going to do. He wants me to be this and be that and they are usually in contradiction. He doesn't love me or anyone as he is too busy trying to shape it instead of understand, listen or empathize with others existentialist dilemmas.


I've accepted that this is a major no no and that me posting this could be my head, literally, but definitely the end of our relations. I care enough now to show you even at the very real possibility of this being terminal, but then again, it always is, isn't it.
I don't see it that way, but you already know that.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

Satan wrote:I would ask that you start again and address what it is I am trying to say to you.

I've been open and honest as I can. I used my name, copy and pasted emails, etc to show you how you are conveying me is not giving me the benefit of the doubt and that you constantly deflect instead of reflect.

You still are veiling and defending. Look at what I am saying to you, get over making a point or the theme of the thread.

Quit lying to make youself seem better example: Hit you with a stack of quarters? I threw a pair of pants at you that had change in the pocket. How about the punching me in the leg 8 times? How is that self defense? I do tons of things to you, I admitted it, now please objectively look at yourself.
This is the crux of our problem here, unless I say to you "You are right, I am wrong." and then stick to that deliberation you don't accept that I am addressing your concerns. I punched you in the leg after you burned me in the eye with a cigarette while I was driving. I stopped the car and told you to "Get the fuck out!" and you didn't, I was admittedly upset that I had been blinded with hot cigarette ash while navigating a vehicle at 50 kmph. Although you had done this to me you proceeded to defend yourself by saying it was not your intention. I said the road to destruction is paved with good intentions. But as a matter of fact, you intended to forcefully remove the cigarette from my possession without my consent, another case of you asserting your authority over me. It is very similar to the time you hit me with the "pair of pants" your rage has unintended consequences and when I point out what actually transpires you hide behind your rage as justification for hurting me, claiming that you didn't intend to hurt me that bad, but ultimately to control me with physical force. After you refused to leave the vehicle, I punched you in the leg.
Please don't be lazy with the truth as I try hard not to especially when talking of others and you. You clearly are not. You are liberal with my intentions and what I think.
If you think you are fair and honest, then you are more deluded than I had originally thought. You continue to miss the point that you get upset, and try to physically dominate me which results in people getting hurt. Either I take a cigarette to the eye, a pocket full of change to the tempel, or I resist your physical force and wind up "attacking" you. I can't win at your game, you have it set up so that only you can win to the exclusion of everyone else.
I have a biology degree and I think I can still learn more from watching nature and still do. Don't be closed.
Sure you can. But it doesn't mean that you are going to learn anything about your own psyche. Chances are you won't. But you can find radical ways to twist the material around into some enlightening experience I'm sure.
I should be able to read anything where you are liberally telling a group of people what I am doing and saying. It is apparent what you think. You are attacking my character by referring to how I feel about people and things on this board as a way to discount me, fine discount away. I questioned you on Kelly because you talked about her a lot and you mentioned a few times that she thought we should break up. I instead checked out some of her youtube vids and left it at that.

Please instead of attacking my character address the contradictions in your own examples. Then you are actually addressing what it is I am conveying at the cost of our relations.

Thank you!

Love,
Amanda Lahay
aka Satan
[/quote]

Again, you just want me to examine my apparent contradictions and hypocrisy. The only thing you've ever cared about is a) that I don't think negatively about you, and b) that I am aware of how wrong I am.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

Satan wrote:In reference to the WHEN incident - "
To my mind, I'm not trying to ask stupid questions, nor am I deliberately ignoring what she said the night before. It was just a very common human short-coming. None of us have perfect memories, though we might be deluded into thinking that we do. For one, it is possible for someone to maintain they are correct even in the face of being wrong, this happens all the time, to save ones own ego. But, even what my girlfriend said to me there, the snappy-ness with which she said it, seems to indicate I must be some kind of deliberate asshole or moron to warrant such a response. And her reasons for reacting as such, is because she felt the need to protect her own ego from my potential criticism, which to be perfectly honest, was simply a question I asked out of ignorance. She is primed to receive criticism and defend herself against it, so even a simple question like that can turn into a falling out. "
How come it has to be that I think he's a moron for asking, again where is the benefit of the doubt here? Even though I've stated several times this is not the case. How come it can't be that I am a struggling human that had a rough day and has a problem with tone? If he isn't trying to be a moronic asshole, then it follows that I'm not trying to be a snappy bitch. If I point this out I am justifying my snappiness and even if after a few conversations where he seems to agree, I find some posting on the internet where he has reverted back. It's very hard to spend the time and energy to try and come to an understanding with someone, when you are already tapped, to have them ignore it or not be able to even follow you through any conversation. If he thinks I'm in capable of in-depth conversations, then he will refuse to engage in them with me or forget the numerous ones we have had. This maddening cycle is what make me seek death/rest, when I should just seek perspective. Also of course I'm primed to receive criticism, you've made sure of it.
I am making reference to sub-conscious process that antecede and give rise to the anger which permeates through your voice when you talk to me. When you shout at me with a snarly tone "WHEN?!!??" below the level of your conscious awareness, there are process occuring which I've attempted to direct you toward by stating these things. But you defend all your motives and intentions and fail to see how the anger originates, and instead claim that if I just treated you better you wouldn't get so angry. However, in that particular incident, like many others, I wasn't mistreating you, I was asking an honest question with an inquiring and open tone.
"Something happened to her which causes her to lose it whenever I say anything. Even if I'm making dinner, it will be, "Don't take the vegetables out of the freezer yet, they can wait a few minutes while everything else cooks." with a kind of snarly attitude. She can't just let me do it or suggest kindly that I leave the vegetables in the freezer. It comes across as if I've committed a gross injustice upon her soul because I took the veggies out too early and they might thaw out a bit before being put back in. Yet, I've had countless discussions with her about trusting me and believing in me, so as not to make such assumptions and to treat me with respect. Don't assume I'm deliberately fucking up, I'm human, I make mistakes and I am ignorant of a lot of things. When she snaps at me as if I was a deliberate fool it implies some element of freedom which I do not believe exists. It is a delusion as far as I'm concerned."
Again, is it that I have a snarly attitude or that he is receiving it that way? He is talking like I am doing a gross injustice on his soul because he didn't like the way I said, that we don't need the vegetables yet. His response was, "See, I knew I was going to do something to mess up." When he implies that I am snapping on purpose it implies some element of freedom which I do not believe exists. It's a delusion as far as I'm concerned.
In the sub-conscious of your mind you are justifying the anger prior to interacting with me. That anger has as its assumption a metaphysical conception of self-subsistent and freedom that is not true to the actual human condition. Thus, when you talk to me like that you are misrepresenting me to yourself, and yourself to me, and ultimately it boils down to an injustice, yes.
"She is so hopelessly dependent on me now because I have debased her entire world-view (which she explicitly denies happening) and at the same time finds no security in me, because I offer none, explaining to her that it is not in my power to offer her security. Overtly, what I've always wanted, was for her to realize that what is, is, and all this other stuff is nonsense. There is no need for security, because there is nothing to secure. She read Alan Watts "Wisdom of insecurity" and understands a lot of good philosophy, but she constantly fails and then reflects on the failure with self-hate and embarrassment. This is the nature of the beast, her self-hate and embarrassment are just two more facets of the same disease. They seal the deal, and take away the persons life, or cast them into a hellish despair with no foreseeable end or beginning(Eternal despair/Hell). That is a quality of despair, it grips the person so that the past and future are obscured. "There is no hope, nor has there ever been." "My whole life sucks". "Nothing has ever gone well for me." "What is the point in living?" Pride, envy, and so forth are like gateways leading into this ultimate despair that ruins many lives. The beast is not something which is overcome by typical human friendships. They are usually rife with satanic influence."
I was well on the path to disillusionment when I started down this path with Ryan. He is just unwilling to accept it. When I used to mention Allan Watts to him on the phone he discounted him, same with Professor Anton (youtube) and taking him seriously, I started to re-evaluate if they were not good sources only to have him later tell me I'm not serious about truth because I don't spend enough time listening to people like these. I understand there is no security, but obviously wasn't accepting it by not standing up for truth even until the bitter end. I'm sorry that I put myself ahead of you for so long. Me talking to myself almost a year ago, at this time he was telling me I always had something bugging me or wrong. Seems to be reversed now.
I have a hard time believe you are truly sorry for anything. I suspect if you were truly sorry it would extend to the depths of your sub-conscious where your inherently flawed conception of humanity resides. But it doesn't, so the next time you are having a bad day you turn into a monster again. You keep "truth" in the intellect, and every attempt I've made to direct you to full integration, you've taken as an insult, because it basically assumes that you are not already perfect. I recognize your need for growth, but you don't recognize when I am trying to help and think I am insulting you or that I hate you. And nothing could be farther from the truth.
To do or not to do.....
Amanda Lahay to me
show details 3/22/10
That is the question.

I have concerns, issues.

You know it, it shows.

I can keep my mouth shut and act a bit weird from time to time or as you would say "moody".
Which is really just me forgetting what is bothering me temporarily or trying my best to move past it for the time being with varied success.
As you may have noticed from the weekend it is now bleeding into face to face interactions.

Or

I can say something and invoke the wrath of Ryan.
In the end it will be my fault for having these concerns and issues as only you are allowed to question anything.
It will be another time that I have brought something up as there is always something wrong with me. You are longing for me to not say anything for a few months. (But then say, Crystal and I would never have these heart to hearts)
It will be all turned around to be my issue and then what I was trying to say is never really addressed. As I usually readily accept ownership over my contributions to a situation.
After I start to get over the wrath of Ryan, I again realize these issues and concerns.
Notice that the "wrath of Ryan" consists of pointed criticisms, while the "wrath of Amanda" consists of homicidal and suicidal threats, coupled with self-mutilation, victim mentality and violence. Perhaps my "wrath" is often just crticisim pointing you out of your self-imposed neuroses. You've never accepted such a reality. You've explicitly rejected any account of reality within which you are fundamentally deluded. It always works out to be battle with you.
Only you are allowed to have issues and question them.
When I do, I am implanting issues and ideas into your head. (IE, maybe you wouldn't feel this way if I didn't say it all the time, meaning mentioned it twice)
If I don't, I am accused of not thinking about them enough (IE, you don't seem to care or think about these things)
I'm sorry, I wonder and concern myself with all kinds of things from whether or not there is a soul that enters the zygote at the point of conception to the hierarchical organizational structure of the cortico-thalamic complex, and many of these concerns are locked solely within my head because neither you nor anyone else I know is capable of understanding them or wants to even try. When I do try to explain myself the issue is ignored and something like a sore toe or "some jerk" becomes the topic of discussion. The fact is virtually everyone I know personally is infinitely more concerned about their own experiences than whether or not the caudate nucleus really does correlate with conscious initiative trickling down to the limbic system. Most people I know would be lost at the word "fact." It is very frustrating, but for the most part I keep this voice muzzled. I wonder in a world inhabited by people with petty concerns to which I am supposed to be empathetic, while my own vastly more general and influential concerns are considered arrogant intellectualizing.
With all this going on, it is no wonder that we interact like we are in competition.
I don't want to be, I just want us to sort it out and move on.
I for the most part assume you to be correct, to have most things figured out and to be further along the progression than me. I am disappointed and dumbfounded when I see evidence to the contrary and concerned when I see you veiling these things as truths. I guess that's how it works though and why we have these issues. I don't see myself and you don't see you. We both want to tell each other to help each other, but it never is received like that. We are both in self-deceit, but at least I can admit it.

Maybe the best thing for me to do is to watch, observe and decide. That's the best I can do from my end, keeping my mouth shut.
This is only a partial leak.
I thought I would give you a chance for input if you have other ideas or other ways to resolve.
I would try to talk to you, but it doesn't seem like that is what you want in the end as you are highly discouraging of it.
It will also mean that you would be spending time thinking about other things than what you want to.
Also it means that I invoke the wrath of Ryan, and honestly I don't know how much more of that I can take. Is it worth the return attack as you lash back at me all the while claiming you have no you to do this, obsolving yourself and placing the blame on me for bringing up the issue. How is that growing? I grow.. I grow by dealing with the person I care about most saying the hardest things to hear. That can be fruitful, but then now I don't know when you are being truthful and giving an honest criticism or whether it's the egoless man's ego attacking me.

I guess in the end, I should let you worry about you right and I'll worry about me. I have my own set of issues that contribute. Watch, listen, decide all while learning and growing myself. It's just too bad we can be a team like I thought we would be.
I guess it is in a way every man for himself. As you say it's just you and reality and everything and everybody else is circumstantial.

Best of luck!
"I've realized that she focuses a lot on whatever egotistical motives may exist in me. Often that is not the case, and it only runs around in destructive circles as I try to tell her she is wrong....when she speaks, the first thing she says generally contains an implicit claim about my motives which I cannot contest without cutting her off. Her time to speak is often a series of such statements which doesn't leave much room for my actual motives. Even though she has consumed a lot of philosophy and spent a lot of time in self-reflection, she hasn't seemed to get the critical thing. She is no better than me, and shouldn't be assuming that I am some kind of deliberate moron. We have moronic moments and some of us are full-time morons, but nobody deliberately goes out of their way to cause unnecessary suffering to the woman they supposedly love... Everything I do suggests I'm a fallible human being who loves her, but she can never see that. All my faults wind her up and agitate her and get her snarly with me. Satan."
How many assumptions have you made on this board about me and my ego without giving me any room for my actual motives? Are you not focused on the egotistical motives in me as shown by your posts? Even ones where you have conversed with me and agreed some faulty thinking. I'm not trying to purposely be a deliberate bitch and you shouldn't be assuming that I am either. A lot that you do mechanically suggest you love me, it's the other stuff like I have always maintain. You want me to trust you, I'd love to, but look what you have done here. What kind of trust is this? Even if you do change your mind, you don't come back and correct or say anything. You say, I'm a new person in each moment, I am too. Like I've said dozens of times recently, you are asking me to do what you aren't doing. Then you have the audacity to talk about women not being able to keep a secret while airing your dirty laundry or should I say mine, because you pick me, your mom, Ted, my sister, Teal, anyone else but you as the example. While claiming I maintain I'm perfect or something, hardly.
If I didn't think I was fundamentally deluded I probably wouldn't have come to this board, nor would I have revered Rowden, Solway, and Quinn as I did, nor would I have rejoiced in Kelly's non-attachment to female psycology. I rejoice when I read self-honesty blogs by members of Destini group. Even if they remain somehow deluded, I accepted that we are all deluded, and I've expressed to you on countless occasions when I have identified my own errors and vices. I'm generally very open with you about the frontier of my spiritual existence, but generally you think I am puffing myself up, degrading you, or crapping on out of frustration.

I have asked myself quite thoroughly; Am I deluded? Is it really impossible for women to perform dialectic thinking as others have suggested? Am I wasting my time and yours by carrying on this relationship? Is the love that I feel based solely in egotism or is there something else I can attribute it to? If it is all egotistical, can I let it go? What is best for you and me? These are questions I've asked quite honestly, and I've expressed them to you, and when I do you say "So, what? Now you are going to leave me. I fuckin' knew this would happen, you liar, you only pretended to love me."

So, I just can't be honest with you at all about my own issues. Instead it becomes an egotistical fear factor playing on your mind and ruining our relationship, well before I'm able to figure out if its even valid. You take my skepticism and ultimately prove to me that I am right to be skeptical.
Animus
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:31 pm

Re: Satan

Post by Animus »

I'm going to take another break from my responses. I need to jostle up my thinking a bit, and come back with a fresh perspective. Bear with me.
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