Feminism

Post questions or suggestions here.
Locked
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Feminism

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Feminism Explained on youtube

There is enough circular reasoning here to make one's head spin.
Carmel

Re: Feminism

Post by Carmel »

Note how she keeps reiterating "because men are bad."

not much of an argument, is it?

It reminds of the circular reasoning against women by the masculinists here which always boil down to some lame variation of "because women are bad"... And like the caricature in that video, they appear in my mind much like a flat, soulless, one dimensional, semi-autistic cartoon character who is completely devoid of life.

Anyone who didn't draw that parallel on their own, really isn't thinking, at all.
mensa-maniac

Re: Feminism

Post by mensa-maniac »

Carmel wrote:Note how she keeps reiterating "because men are bad."

not much of an argument, is it?

It reminds of the circular reasoning against women by the masculinists here which always boil down to some lame variation of "because women are bad"... And like the caricature in that video, they appear in my mind much like a flat, soulless, one dimensional, semi-autistic cartoon character who is completely devoid of life.

Anyone who didn't draw that parallel on their own, really isn't thinking, at all.
Mensa says: I clearly drew that parallel, it would be denying not to. Men and women are both bad, but not equally bad in numbers, statistics show more men killers than women. Killing is purely evil, however, the point is it's equally bad to kill whether you're man or woman.

Mensa says: I noticed she was stumped a couple of times especially when she answered the guy, "It's none of your business" that clearly showed she couldn't answer his question.
mensa-maniac

Re: Feminism

Post by mensa-maniac »

Feminism

Feminism is about women who want equality, but what they don't understand is the uppermost reasons why equality will never be. In the minds of any business is the question why pay for hamburger when you can pay for steak, in other words quality will pay, and poor quality will pay less.

If women doing the same jobs as men and still not getting paid equal pay, then, there are reasons for it, which I can only logically guess that those reasons have been observed that women may not be able to produce as fast as men can, which means less production, which means less pay. Women are always needing self-attention which distracts them from their work time, time is of essense in a job, and when they have to skirt off to the ladies room to take care of personal business and hygiene, this is time consuming and takes away from production, therefore, in this way I clearly see why women are paid less than men. And there are other reasons too, that I don't expect even the intelligent woman to understand, unless she lives biblically.

Donna Thompson
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Feminism

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

mensa-maniac wrote: Men and women are both bad, but not equally bad in numbers, statistics show more men killers than women. Killing is purely evil, however, the point is it's equally bad to kill whether you're man or woman.
I don't think that there's any way to figure out the numbers of killings because men and women are bad in different ways. Women might be more likely than men to drive people to suicide, even if accidentally.

It's easier to count the number of men who kill someone - and can more easily find out if he meant to kill that person or if it was more of an accident as a result of suddenly lashing out or fighting back (and since men are stronger than women, she is less likely to do actual damage and he is more likely to kill even with just one punch).

Women get off the hook for driving someone to suicide partially because the link is inherently unprovable and able to be linked with some level of possibility to other factors, and because verbal abuse is often discounted as something that should not bother you (and often this discounting of verbal abuse is a double whammy from the abuser themselves, 1. invalidating the reality of your feelings and 2. covering up their own crime by enlisting the abused to help them cover it up). This discounting of verbal/emotional abuse is backed up so hard by society that it's even ingrained in a childhood saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." That saying can even ring true to people who may have had their feelings hurt a little like most people growing up, but never experienced verbal abuse - so the person can be invalidated again or subject to secondary abuse if they try to get help.

I'm not sure why it's vastly more common for someone to make fun of someone who is upset than for someone to kick a broken bone.

But as far as domestic violence, women are actually far more likely to commit domestic violence than men.
mensa-maniac wrote:Feminism is about women who want equality
It started off that way. Now it is starting to look more like an extremist sect. If it were about equality, wouldn't NOW be up in arms about shariah law, or how female babies are disposed of in China? Wouldn't equality include women in the draft in the US?
mensa-maniac wrote:women may not be able to produce as fast as men can, which means less production, which means less pay.
mensa-maniac wrote:quality will pay, and poor quality will pay less.
Sometimes, especially in some fields, men are more productive or give a higher quality than women. Sometimes, especially in other fields, women are more productive or give a higher quality than men. In good companies, pay is commensurate with output. There is still unfairness in the world, but I wouldn't be surprised if the unfairness was close to equally distributed between the genders. That doesn't make it right though.
mensa-maniac wrote:Women are always needing self-attention which distracts them from their work time, time is of essense in a job, and when they have to skirt off to the ladies room to take care of personal business and hygiene, therefore, in this way I clearly see why women are paid less than men.
Are you serious? Both genders are required by law in the United States to get breaks - I believe it is a half hour off for every 4 hours worked. Many places - including Walmart with all its bad reputation about how it treats employees - also give a 15 minute bathroom break after 2 hours. Generally even the woman with the worst flow can keep out of the bathroom until the next scheduled break by using both a super tampon and a maxi pad at the same time.

Not paying a woman as much as a man because you figure "well, she's going to get her period, so there goes her productivity for a week out of every month, so I'm not going to pay her as much" is prejudiced. How do you even know that she's going to get her period? Would you ask in her interview if she has gone through menopause yet (some get that as early as 35) or if she has had a hysterectomy? Of course not, that's illegal. Do you ask how much of a flow she gets? Many women on the pill only get a little smudge of brown for 3 days out of the month, only having to change their pad once a day. Beyond that, whatever her flow, if she does not take any more breaks than a guy then she should not be financially punished for being female. That's even worse if she happens to be productive and concerned about being a good employee even if the guys around her are more concerned with calculating exactly how much they have to do in order to keep their jobs and not do any more than that minimum amount.
mensa-maniac wrote:in this way I clearly see why women are paid less than men. And there are other reasons too, that I don't expect even the intelligent woman to understand, unless she lives biblically.
Oh, of course! That's the reason to do things! "Da -ta - da - ta this I know, 'cause the Bible tells me so."
mensa-maniac

Re: Feminism

Post by mensa-maniac »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:
mensa-maniac wrote: Men and women are both bad, but not equally bad in numbers, statistics show more men killers than women. Killing is purely evil, however, the point is it's equally bad to kill whether you're man or woman.
I don't think that there's any way to figure out the numbers of killings because men and women are bad in different ways. Women might be more likely than men to drive people to suicide, even if accidentally.

It's easier to count the number of men who kill someone - and can more easily find out if he meant to kill that person or if it was more of an accident as a result of suddenly lashing out or fighting back (and since men are stronger than women, she is less likely to do actual damage and he is more likely to kill even with just one punch).

Women get off the hook for driving someone to suicide partially because the link is inherently unprovable and able to be linked with some level of possibility to other factors, and because verbal abuse is often discounted as something that should not bother you (and often this discounting of verbal abuse is a double whammy from the abuser themselves, 1. invalidating the reality of your feelings and 2. covering up their own crime by enlisting the abused to help them cover it up). This discounting of verbal/emotional abuse is backed up so hard by society that it's even ingrained in a childhood saying "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me." That saying can even ring true to people who may have had their feelings hurt a little like most people growing up, but never experienced verbal abuse - so the person can be invalidated again or subject to secondary abuse if they try to get help.

I'm not sure why it's vastly more common for someone to make fun of someone who is upset than for someone to kick a broken bone.

But as far as domestic violence, women are actually far more likely to commit domestic violence than men.
mensa-maniac wrote:Feminism is about women who want equality
It started off that way. Now it is starting to look more like an extremist sect. If it were about equality, wouldn't NOW be up in arms about shariah law, or how female babies are disposed of in China? Wouldn't equality include women in the draft in the US?
mensa-maniac wrote:women may not be able to produce as fast as men can, which means less production, which means less pay.
mensa-maniac wrote:quality will pay, and poor quality will pay less.
Sometimes, especially in some fields, men are more productive or give a higher quality than women. Sometimes, especially in other fields, women are more productive or give a higher quality than men. In good companies, pay is commensurate with output. There is still unfairness in the world, but I wouldn't be surprised if the unfairness was close to equally distributed between the genders. That doesn't make it right though.
mensa-maniac wrote:Women are always needing self-attention which distracts them from their work time, time is of essense in a job, and when they have to skirt off to the ladies room to take care of personal business and hygiene, therefore, in this way I clearly see why women are paid less than men.
Are you serious? Both genders are required by law in the United States to get breaks - I believe it is a half hour off for every 4 hours worked. Many places - including Walmart with all its bad reputation about how it treats employees - also give a 15 minute bathroom break after 2 hours. Generally even the woman with the worst flow can keep out of the bathroom until the next scheduled break by using both a super tampon and a maxi pad at the same time.

Not paying a woman as much as a man because you figure "well, she's going to get her period, so there goes her productivity for a week out of every month, so I'm not going to pay her as much" is prejudiced. How do you even know that she's going to get her period? Would you ask in her interview if she has gone through menopause yet (some get that as early as 35) or if she has had a hysterectomy? Of course not, that's illegal. Do you ask how much of a flow she gets? Many women on the pill only get a little smudge of brown for 3 days out of the month, only having to change their pad once a day. Beyond that, whatever her flow, if she does not take any more breaks than a guy then she should not be financially punished for being female. That's even worse if she happens to be productive and concerned about being a good employee even if the guys around her are more concerned with calculating exactly how much they have to do in order to keep their jobs and not do any more than that minimum amount.
mensa-maniac wrote:in this way I clearly see why women are paid less than men. And there are other reasons too, that I don't expect even the intelligent woman to understand, unless she lives biblically.
Oh, of course! That's the reason to do things! "Da -ta - da - ta this I know, 'cause the Bible tells me so."
Mensa says: Yes, the Bible does tell me so, it's a great book to live by. And although the Bible may be nothing more than scholars crafty imaginations manifesting great pieces of proverbs and wisdom to live by, without it, people wouldn't have any hope to believe in, the Bible encourages peoples faith, and people might be in hysterics without it.

Mensa says: Ok, so you make some good valid points, and you're right women shouldn't get punished with less pay for having to skirt off to the washroom to pee or clean themselves, but if women skirted off to the washroom for other things such as smoking cigarettes, a joint, a line of coke, make phone calls, anything at all, then, they are doing these things on company time, and getting paid for it. And I'm talking about these things being done between breaks, I should have been more clear about that. And more than likely men do these things too! These people think they are not noticed taking more time and are the very people fired!
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Feminism

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

mensa-maniac wrote:Yes, the Bible does tell me so, it's a great book to live by. And although the Bible may be nothing more than scholars crafty imaginations manifesting great pieces of proverbs and wisdom to live by
That wasn't my point. God gave you reason, and reason is a wonderful thing to live by.
mensa-maniac wrote:the Bible may be nothing more than scholars crafty imaginations manifesting great pieces of proverbs and wisdom to live by, without it, people wouldn't have any hope to believe in, the Bible encourages peoples faith, and people might be in hysterics without it.
Yes, some people would be in hysterics without their Bible, others get in hysterics if anyone even threatens to burn just one Koran, and others get quite hysterical without their cocaine or heroin. How hysterical someone might be without something does not indicate how great something actually is.

Even atheists have hope and faith. Hope of being picked for a promotion or getting a good spouse, faith that if they do the right thing that good things will come of it. Even priests suggest that faith and hope be supplemented with reasonable action. If one wants a job, filling out an application works better than prayer alone. The atheist just skips the prayer part because he doesn't see any use to it, and atheists still get jobs.

I'm not telling you to ditch the Bible - it is a good book. It was written for shepherds and others of ancient days who might not have had any idea of right or wrong otherwise, and it is still a fine enough foundation today. There's some stuff in it that needs updating as far as right and wrong goes - like since the Bible was written, we figured out that slavery was wrong. Nevertheless it's pretty good, at least as accurate about telling right and wrong as the law, and it is more condensed, the story format makes it more readable, and it addresses more of the why's than just reading the law.

It just doesn't make sense to do literally what the Bible tells you to do without using reason. Otherwise, a person could end up doing some rather strange or even heinous things.
parasympathetic
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:40 pm

Re: Feminism

Post by parasympathetic »

What do they want?
Elizabeth Isabelle
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:35 am

Re: Feminism

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

parasympathetic wrote:What do they want?
The same thing they want every night Pinky; to try to take over the world.
Locked