Celestia

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Dan Rowden
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Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

I have this interesting free (open source) 3D space simulation program called Celestia, which I had planned to use for some Youtube video effects etc.

http://www.shatters.net/celestia/

It has a built-in picture and video capture system so you can make a video of a flight past a planet or galaxy etc, but for some reason I can't capture videos (avi format). When I try I get an error message simply stating "cannot capture movie". I was wondering if any of you tech-savvy folk might have an insight as to the possible cause. I can't find anything via Google or the as yet limited help services for the software.

My guess is missing codecs, as I've got other video issues with my system. I've tried installing a couple of different codec packs but they either cause more issues or don't resolve the ones I have.

Anyway, if you don't have any thoughts, try the program; it's pretty cool. Runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac OS X.
Ataraxia
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Re: Celestia

Post by Ataraxia »

I'm not particularly tech-savvy- but I believe this is a well regarded codec pack. Seems to have a help forum attached too.

http://www.cccp-project.net/
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Robert
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Re: Celestia

Post by Robert »

Try asking on the site's forum, if you haven't already. It seems pretty active.
brokenhead
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Re: Celestia

Post by brokenhead »

Dan, this might be like killing a gnat with a howitzer, but I use dependency walker a good deal to pinpoint when an app doesn't do what it is supposed to do. It goes under the hood and shows you which subroutines are being called by the app when the error message is generated. Sometimes a missing or corrupt DLL is the culprit, and it may be one that is not used by many other programs so its absence is not otherwise an issue. It's a good all-around tool, and once you play around with it, you will see what I mean.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

Thanks, I'll check it out. Sounds very useful.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

Robert wrote:Try asking on the site's forum, if you haven't already. It seems pretty active.
Ah, yeah, had totally forgotten about the forum. I did a search for the issue there when I first started using the program but didn't find anything. At the time it didn't matter enough for me to follow up on it. I'll post a thread there now.

Thanks.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

brokenhead wrote:Dan, this might be like killing a gnat with a howitzer, but I use dependency walker a good deal to pinpoint when an app doesn't do what it is supposed to do. It goes under the hood and shows you which subroutines are being called by the app when the error message is generated. Sometimes a missing or corrupt DLL is the culprit, and it may be one that is not used by many other programs so its absence is not otherwise an issue. It's a good all-around tool, and once you play around with it, you will see what I mean.
"Warning: At least one module has an unresolved import due to a missing export function in a delay-load dependent module."

Um, yeah, ok :) Anyway, looks like .dll issues.
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Does it tell you which module it is?
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

I think you can dig down into the whole dependency tree, so I guess the answer is "yes". Basically I haven't figured out how to interpret the data returns yet. When and if I do I might get somewhere.
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Dan Rowden wrote:I think you can dig down into the whole dependency tree, so I guess the answer is "yes".
Ah, I see, but it doesn't say a filename like "ocx.dll" or something of that sort?

That would really narrow it down, if say the dependency was on Java or VB and you just needed to update or reinstall those. Or it might be codec related, though on the forums for Celestia users recommend DivX which is a pretty common codec for codec packs.

I personally have a lot of success with K-Lite codec pack when I run into videos with missing codecs.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

Here's an example of the data return you have to work with and interpret:

http://geniusrealms.com/music/data.jpg
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Unidian
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Re: Celestia

Post by Unidian »

It's probably magnets
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Animus
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Dan Rowden wrote:Here's an example of the data return you have to work with and interpret:

http://geniusrealms.com/music/data.jpg
So, the red icons are the files that have missing export functions or other warnings. The icon with the hour-glass next to it is a delay-load dependency file.

However on another forum I read that this happens with Dependency Walker on all recent windows programs.

Anyway the red ones are potential problem areas. I think all of these DLLs listed are part of windows. You can download them from dll-files.com

Try running system file checker "Start->Run" "sfc /scannow"
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Module warning. At least one instance of this module is either missing one or more export functions that are required by its parent module, is of the wrong CPU type, or failed to load at runtime. Locate the offending module(s) in the Module Dependency Tree View and then look in the Parent Import Function List View for that module to see the actual unresolved functions that are causing the problem. This may or may not be an error. If the offending module(s) are marked as dynamic, then this is just a warning since it is valid for modules to call GetProcAddress to dynamically check for a function and fail to find it. If the offending module(s) are delay-load, then this is also probably not an error since one reason developers use delay-load dependencies is when they are unsure if a function exists in a dependent module. If the offending module(s) are implicit or forwarded dependencies, then this is an error and will cause the parent of those modules to fail to load. If no export functions are missing, then check the Log View to see if the module error is related to a load failure.
This is from the dependency walker manual.

So I guess the thing to look at here is the "Export Function" view in the middle of the App, where it lists "Hint", "Function", "Oridinal" and "Entry Point". These should all have data in them, even if the "Function" reads "N/A". The manual says to select the modules marked as Red and look over the Export Function list for missing export functions.

http://www.dependencywalker.com/help/ht ... t_view.htm
http://www.dependencywalker.com/help/ht ... t_view.htm

Sounds like a corrupted WinAPI DLL or possibly a registry entry, System File Checker is notoriously bad for finding problems with WinAPI, but see if that helps too.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

Animus wrote:Try running system file checker "Start->Run" "sfc /scannow"
Is that scan supposed to generate a report of some kind? It didn't.
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Dan Rowden wrote:
Animus wrote:Try running system file checker "Start->Run" "sfc /scannow"
Is that scan supposed to generate a report of some kind? It didn't.
Uh, maybe not, try rebooting and running the Celestia app again. The SFC app is kinda crappy but it doesn't hurt to try it.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

It may have helped with other things, but it didn't effect Celestia. Nice to know it's there at least.
Animus
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

Do you have all the windows updates? SP3?
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

I never installed SP3. The one time I tried it failed at the end due to some issue that I can't recall now, but it was known and there was a way round it. I guess I should go back to that and try again as I presume that the SP3 install just about updates the whole basic Windows system. At least, it seems pretty extensive and would likely resolve any corrupt dll or registry entries I have.
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Re: Celestia

Post by brokenhead »

SFC checks to see if all the system files are present in their default locations and are not corrupt. An app might be trying to load a library file (DLL, OCX, etc.) from a different location.

I am not sure Dependency Walker is locating the problem. Here is why. When you start up Celestia, the program opens okay with no warnings or errors, correct? If you open it through DW, it should do the same thing. Celestia is serving up the error message when you go to use a specific one of its functions. DW should only be indicating errors at this point. IOW, depends.exe should be transparent to an application until the application malfunctions or fails. To see what I mean, open another [simple] program through the DW interface. The program should open all the way. You should be able to use it without DW halting it.

I tried to open Celestia without DW, and it opens fine. I tried to open it through DW, and it gets the errors you found above. Clearly, DW is giving false errors. Celestia is halting even before it loads when you try to fire it up through DW. DW should only indicate errors when you get to the troublesome app functions, the avi save or whatever is failing for you. DW seems to be causing it to fail even to load.

One thing you can do, though, is to identify which DLL or OCX DW says it is missing and make sure there is a copy of it in the System32 directory.

Dan, if you get a chance, I think it would be a good idea to apply SP3 then run a Windows update. After that, then you can run a SFC /scannow.

I am at a MAC right now, so I can't test Celestia, but I would be curious if anyone else has been able to reproduce Dan's problem. It looks like a really neat program.
Animus
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Re: Celestia

Post by Animus »

I fully intended to check out this app last night, but I got locked in a cognitive loop. I was arguing for 3 pages with a dude that claims "normativity" isn't a real word and asserts that I made it up. So, his claim is that my bloated ego won't allow me to admit that it is not a word and he demands that I apologize for making it up.

I dunno why I argued this guy, perhaps I'll die.

If I get a chance tonight I'll try running the app.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

I installed SP3, after a trepidatious use of an access denial fix, and nothing has changed. Oh, except that Windows Media Player is now playing file extensions it didn't want to know about previously. No biggie. I can always rip-off other people's Celestia movies :)

Basically, I strongly feel it's a codec issue, I just don't know how to resolve it, or how to begin to resolve it. I've installed various codec packs. I've had other programs like a gif to avi converter and even Animation Shop that refuse to generate avi files. I don't really understand why I can play avi files just fine, but can't generate them.
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Diebert van Rhijn
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Re: Celestia

Post by Diebert van Rhijn »

Dan, it seems to me then your problem never was about Celestia so lets simplify it.

AVI is not really a format by itself, it's a container for a specific encoding which you still have to specify upon generation or play time. It's not clear to me if you have selected a specific choice in your attempts. It's easy to see how playing or generating might use completely different codecs depending on desired type of AVI.

In the codec pack I use : http://www.xpcodecpack.com/ there's a program called Codec Detective which lists and tests all codecs present (and there might be more on your system than you think, possibly preventing the newer ones to be loaded).

It's also possible your Windows programs use DirectX to call the video encoders but installing SP3 should have taken care of problems with that although you do mention a fix for something. It's downloadable separately here.
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Unidian
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Re: Celestia

Post by Unidian »

I am far too lazy to even guess what the problem might be, but I did want to affirm that Celestia is awesome.
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Dan Rowden
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Re: Celestia

Post by Dan Rowden »

Diebert van Rhijn wrote:Dan, it seems to me then your problem never was about Celestia so lets simplify it.

AVI is not really a format by itself, it's a container for a specific encoding which you still have to specify upon generation or play time. It's not clear to me if you have selected a specific choice in your attempts.
I don't get that far. When I bring up the capture window and choose a file name and frame rate and press "ok", that's when I get the error message. I'm supposed to get - as far as I can work out - another window giving compression options but I don't make it that far. That might suggest that program doesn't find any avi compression "devices", yet when I look over my installed codecs they seem to be there.
It's easy to see how playing or generating might use completely different codecs depending on desired type of AVI.
Yeah, as far as I know there's multiple codecs in the system to deal with avi files in various ways. I mean, I can play them no problem.
In the codec pack I use : http://www.xpcodecpack.com/ there's a program called Codec Detective which lists and tests all codecs present (and there might be more on your system than you think, possibly preventing the newer ones to be loaded).
I used to have that codec pack. Now I have K-Lite and on installation it removed every other codec pack I had, so that aspect should be ok. K-Lite also comes with a few utility programs.
It's also possible your Windows programs use DirectX to call the video encoders but installing SP3 should have taken care of problems with that although you do mention a fix for something.
That fix pertained to a registry issue - i.e. it claims some programs make changes to registry entries that stop the SP3 installer doing its thing at an administrative level. The fix did some stuff to the registry and other Windows files. The fix came from Microsoft itself.
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