Poison for the Heart - and Women

[Shardrol]

[Re: Poison for the Heart ]

Here is a link to the proposed cover. Any feedback?

I don't like it. The drawing is vague & doesn't appear to have anything to do with the subject unless it's a picture of a poisonous plant & if so, this is too subtle for a cover.

I don't like the block letter style & the type should be much larger.

I think you should spring for a color cover, or at least if you only have one color it should be something other than black. For example, you could have a blue background with white type, no picture. Or graduated bands of blue, about 5 of them, across the cover with the title in one of them & your name in another. Actually blood red with white lettering would be good. If you must use black, how about solid black with white lettering?

I like the box with the blurb on the back but the line around it should be thinner.

Sorry I'm picky but I do this sort of thing for a living. If you want me to send you an example of my suggestions I'd be glad to.

[Kevin Solway]

Sorry I'm picky but I do this sort of thing for a living. If you want me to send you an example of my suggestions I'd be glad to.

Thanks for the good advice. Please send me your suggestions.

Also, I'm looking for some interesting descriptive text to go on the back cover. I'm not sure that what's on there now will go down too well.

[Matt Gregory]

It should say "Venom Crystals" on it, too, shouldn't it?

When I first saw your book for download it said, "Philosophy for thinking men and women". I got hooked on that line.

[Matt Gregory]

I don't think saying "this is the greatest book in the world" is very good for increasing your readership because it basically requires the person, before they even look at your book, to have already made a fairly complete analysis of modesty and honesty in order for them to think you're not just crazy. I don't think many people have done that.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

The only cover I can think of that would have any effect or value in terms of making an imprint on this modern day world would be a color photo of Kevin's face right after ingesting lots of poison hemlock in Socrates style. Combined with a smooth PR campaign publicizing death certificate and further documentary video evidence online, the book might actually get taken seriously for a while, or at least getting a larger audience, perhaps even banned here and there which will only attract the more promising counter-culture readers.

Another benefit of this cover would be that it compensates fully for the back flap where Solway would be described as brave home owner, golf amateur, loving to travel and selling medical insurances.

This is not meant as a joke, this is the realism of reaching audiences without subverting ones own message in the process. If the medium doesn't contain the message, it will be lost for this age or even worse: totally misunderstood.

[Shardrol]

Good grief, Diebert, you're even more cynical than I am. However I disagree with your analysis. I think that a professional looking cover makes it more likely that the book will be taken seriously. I'm not suggesting naked babes holding martinis lolling around the lettering but I did find a great photo of the Heart Nebula that might look quite good with red lettering in a slightly nasty typeface.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

I think that a professional looking cover makes it more likely that the book will be taken seriously.

What did you find unprofessional about my suggested cover exactly? It could be done in the utmost professional manner.

You mean to make it more attractive to pick up, show on a book shelf, give to friends on their birthday? Aren't you confusing the word 'seriously' with 'acceptable by standard norms'? It would only deceive most readers, promising something what isn't really there.

Now the word 'vanity press' comes really to mind again. If readership numbers are the issue it should be installed as adware on pornsites. Or banners linking to the online version on various dating and seduction sites. That would be money better spent because of superior targeting.

[Shardrol]

Yes, by 'professional' I meant something like conforming to industry standards. This is useful when trying to appeal to people who don't already understand & agree with one's message. Why create another obstacle?

I do think your idea would gain attention but it would also cause the book to be dismissed as the work of the kind of nutjob who hands out closely-typed pages of schizophrenic ravings on street corners. Plus conventional society would opine that Kevin killed himself because he couldn't find a girlfriend.

However the concept of banner ads on seduction & porn sites is fascinating. I wonder how much that costs.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

However the concept of banner ads on seduction & porn sites is fascinating. I wonder how much that costs.

On second thought perhaps joining the Google Adwords program is easier, one can influence a bit on what kind of sites or topics they might show up but remains very flexible. Using keywords as sex, dating, seduction, masculinity, logic, truth, Buddhism, one could get an interesting reach. Better yet to use a bit more uncommon keywords to avoid being snowed under. I think some very good keywords could be distilled from Poison to make the targeting optimal.

I think the cheapest click costs 1 cent so for 5000 dollar one could get maximal 500,000 visitors to the online book over time. For better placements the price goes up and the budget decreases faster. There's only a five dollar fee subscription for starters and one can set limits to how many clicks are accepted each month , to avoid an unexpected bill.

[Carl G]

If you're going to mass print Poison, I suggest having a distributer lined up, to get it into bookstores, or you might have a garage full of copies you can't move. Otherwise why not go the Print On Demand route. It's much cheaper.

[Iolaus]

I don't think saying "this is the greatest book in the world" is very good for increasing your readership because it basically requires the person, before they even look at your book, to have already made a fairly complete analysis of modesty and honesty in order for them to think you're not just crazy.

I agree with this. Saying it is the best book ever written is just the sort of thing my father would have said.

[Carl G]

"Poison for the Heart is probably the greatest book ever written" is not a logical statement, therefore is not wise, and thereby undermines the premise of the book.

After all, ever written includes the future. Even if confined to the past, how can one know all the books which have been written? Unknown books were lost in the fire at the Library of Alexandria. Unknown Mayan books were destroyed by the Spanish church. Even to say "greatest book currently available" is a subjective statement; how is greatest to be objectively determined?

[Kevin Solway]

"Poison for the Heart is probably the greatest book ever written"

It was said with tongue-in-cheek. A book doesn't have to be very wise to be the greatest book ever written.

How about, "may be the greatest book ever written." :-)

[Dan Rowden]

I think something like "a book of unsurpassed (able?) wisdom" is workable. I can't see any logic issues with that given the content contains wisdom that can't be surpassed.

[Matt Gregory]

It's not about logic, it's about selling. I mean, I know you want to be logical in every area of life, but sometimes it just doesn't make sense. You're trying to appeal to illogical people. If they were logical, they wouldn't need the book.

[Dan Rowden]

How illogical are the people the book is being marketed at? How illogical are the people who would even pick up or read such a book? I think the market for Poison is limited to people who value their intelligence to some extent. Not much point in attracting a market who won't read past page 5. I think the demographic you're pitching the book at is a less than easy thing to decide because there are market considerations as well as philosophical credibility to consider. I feel like there's a line to be walked here and it would be valuable to define it clearly to maximize the potential for a positive outcome.

[Matt Gregory]

I had no idea that "greatest book in the world" was supposed to be a joke and I've even heard that joke before. That's why I'm so skeptical as to whether anyone could possibly get a joke like that just by seeing it on the cover of a serious book. Maybe it would work if it was worded more explicitly.

I like "philosophy for thinking people" because it just says what it is. Maybe the book should even be called "Philosophy for Thinking".

[Dan Rowden]

Kevin's greatest work and legacy may be published. If ever there was a legitimate need for a Paypal link!

[Carl G]

A book doesn't have to be very wise to be the greatest book ever written.

More tongue in cheek! Kevin, you're on a roll. Just don't let any of it end up on the back cover of the book. Your public may not get it.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

The title alone is enough to get teenagers to open it. Everyone says something like "greatest book ever written" so that phrase has become too cliche to be taken seriously.

For that demographic, it is probably best to not describe what is in the book - and let the title sell it through enigmatic curiosity.

[Dan Rowden]

For that demographic, it is probably best to not describe what is in the book - and let the title sell it through enigmatic curiosity.

I really think this is a approach worth considering. In fact it's a great approach. I think the "enigma" angle is a good one. When has a book ever been a blank white cover with blood red text been published? I think it has, actually, and I think I'm missing a very important book, but I still think that idea is worth thinking about..

[Jamesh]

I don't think Poison for the Heart is as robust as most seem to think - it is still pretty disjointed to me. Many of the points will fall completely down without further explanation to the uninitiated. It contains too much stuff that will be completely misinterpreted.

It reads like a series of notebook entries, which is only fine if the writer is already well known and respected - too light-on for me, for supposedly the only real sages existing in the world at present.

Personally I think it needs beefing up with extracts/quotes from Genius News. I would make it a collaberative effort - a book of three parts - David's Intro to Wisdom of the Infinite [setting the philosphical stage, getting peoples mindset right up front - 120 pages], then Dan with edited extracts from Genius News [general range of topics that would spurn the readers interest further - 250 pages] and finally Kevin's Poison for the Heart [esoteric quotes and comments to ponder - 100 pages]. I would also not publish the bulk of the anti-woman stuff, and concentrate only on pro-masculine mindedness - just leave only just enough in to raise ire amongst the uni mob, but not that much that would give them justification to dismiss it outright.

There would still be enough room left for David to do an individual book, a more complete Wisdom for the Infinite.

[Carl G]

Better still, take OUT all the woman stuff and insert stories about little children and puppies. And put a CD in the back with Dan singing philosophical songs derived from his poetry. That's the way to popularize these ideas.

[Kevin Solway]

It reads like a series of notebook entries

Yes, that's what it essentially is. But if a person starts reading at the front ("Ageing") and works their way towards the end, I reckon an intelligent person will make sense of it.

At least, that's what I had in mind when I was compiling it.

I think the reason David wrote his "Wisdom of the Infinite" is to cater for those who need a more drawn-out explanation. But there are pros and cons to either method. Even a simply explained, step-by-step explanation like David's will be misinterpreted at every turn by the majority of people.

Personally I think it needs beefing up with extracts/quotes from Genius News.

"Venom Crystals" will be included at the end of it.

Basically, the compilation (which is how I think of it) represents all the most useful ideas I can think of, between two covers. Funnily enough, even after twenty years, I wouldn't change much if I had to do it all again from scratch.

My intention was to make it the sort of book that, if you could only have one book for your spiritual edification, this is the one you would want.

I would also not publish the bulk of the anti-woman stuff, and concentrate only on pro-masculine mindedness

It's impossible to isolate what the masculine is without equally clarifying what the feminine is. For this, it very much helps to point at women.

I didn't want to provide people any scope for thinking that being feminine (unconscious) - or being like, or being with, or being emotionally dependent on such a person - can be noble in any way.

Without all the carrying-on about the feminine, you can be sure that people will just turn a blind eye to the feminine - in themselves, as well as in women. It's all too easy to do so.

But it would be good to have David's book printed also. I don't know if he's finished it yet.

[Dave Toast]

Kevin, a number of years ago I suggested to you that your 'feminine' is non other than unconsiousness. You disagreed, as did David.

In light of the fact that three times you have recently put the word 'unconscious' in brackets after the word 'feminine', have your thoughts now changed?

Additionally, if the word 'unconscious' can be parenthesized after the word 'feminine', why not just make your case using the former? If it's stated clearly enough, people will make the obvious link themselves. There would be no need for the controversy which is likely to drastically decrease the audience willing to consider it, thereby maximising the potential impact.

Surely you're more likely to make the sale if you sweet talk your way in as opposed to jamming your foot in the door, no matter that the product is just the same regardless of your sales method. Then, once they're onboard, there are many more who are that much more likely to show some brand loyalty towards your additional products.

If your ultimate aim is to perpetuate wisdom, is it not sensible to bait your hook for all big game, not just the most exotic of sharks. Because, unless you know where those exotic sharks are, you are otherwise going to starve. There is a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like a fool.