Poison for the Heart - and Women

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Matt Gregory
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Re: Poison for the Cow

Post by Matt Gregory »

Neil,
Matt: And that's what men are capable of and women are not.

Neil: Men are capable of deluding themselves into thinking they are doing "rationality in itself"
They're also capable of developing themselves until they can actually do it. They can consciously create their own values if they want.

whereas they are really just doing something required for their optimal survival.
That's a nice piece of doublethink right there. Obviously, we aren't required by anything to survive optimally. That's your own moral sensations talking.

Women are capable of doing similar things though they are usually (in the women I have observed) along the lines of "helping others in itself" rather than "rationality in itself".
That's what I'm talking about. Their reasoning moves in a circumscribed area around human affairs. Women can't value anything other than humanity like a man can. They don't have the courage.

Either way they are selfish actions under the guise of "selfless" actions (these don't exist), and they are intricately linked with moral people who believe that selfishness is bad, who are usually people who couldn't surivive well any other way.
It's true that most people have ulterior motives when they start talking about doing things in the name of rationality and so forth, but that in no way proves that an ulterior motive is necessary.
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Imadrongo
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Imadrongo »

Ryan,
NM: I believe "humane" is the inferiority of the species, so no, it could not be overcome in a "humane" way.

RR: When you first started coming on the forum, you posted how you believed violent action was in order to make the world a better place. So you are a hypocrite Neil, you cannot make the world a better place without having some conception of inferior and superior, some conception of humane.
Huh? I just said "humane" is inferiority of the species. I don't want to make the world a "better place" by your standards. My "better place" would not be at all "humane" as your is, it would be quite violent. Comprende?
A will to power in order to change things, implies a conception of humane.
Change does not have to be towards humaneness.
NM: Why not? "Truth" is your form of hedonism as is the illusion of non-free will.

RR: I already told you many times, but you don't seem capable of understanding, a wise man reaps very little pleasure from speaking the truth, it becomes automatic.
Do you derive pleasure out of telling me this? Don't act like the victim here! You know as well as a Christian knows that you are not the victim and that your savior ("Truth") has come to redeem your suffering existence and propel you into Heaven!
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Imadrongo
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Re: Poison for the Cow

Post by Imadrongo »

Matt,
Matt: And that's what men are capable of and women are not.

Neil: Men are capable of deluding themselves into thinking they are doing "rationality in itself"

Matt: They're also capable of developing themselves until they can actually do it. They can consciously create their own values if they want.
"If they want" -- yes, they are doing it because they want to. They are fulfilling their desire or purpose for wanting to do so, and it is not that they want it for rationality's sake in itself.
NM: whereas they are really just doing something required for their optimal survival.

MG: That's a nice piece of doublethink right there. Obviously, we aren't required by anything to survive optimally. That's your own moral sensations talking.
That's what I observe. I see people who are suffering, sick of life, unsuccessful in life, and they subconsciously create some sort of mechanism whereby they are actually view themselves as successful, superior, "truthful", "wise", etc. I observe Christians do this with their redeemer God who comes to, very fittingly, save the poorest, weakest of the earth. Do you see this? And then I see sages do something similar. What they have in common is trying to escape this world, as Nietzsche put it, deny life. The Christian wants some higher standards of God and Afterlife wherein he is successful and the the sage wants some higher standards of "absolute truth" and "nothingness" wherein everyone else is inferior and deluded. It is almost as though these peoples' minds intervened so they wouldn't have to suffer psychologically. And then they go around spreading the truth to the inferiors and defending the truth with a cemented closed mind that protects them.
Women are capable of doing similar things though they are usually (in the women I have observed) along the lines of "helping others in itself" rather than "rationality in itself".
That's what I'm talking about. Their reasoning moves in a circumscribed area around human affairs. Women can't value anything other than humanity like a man can. They don't have the courage.
NM: Either way they are selfish actions under the guise of "selfless" actions (these don't exist), and they are intricately linked with moral people who believe that selfishness is bad, who are usually people who couldn't surivive well any other way.

MG: It's true that most people have ulterior motives when they start talking about doing things in the name of rationality and so forth, but that in no way proves that an ulterior motive is necessary.
Do I need to prove that? Only mentally braindead people would even begin to qualify for the category of doing something for no reason at all.
Kevin Solway
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Kevin Solway »

Neil Melnyk wrote:Kevin,
What would you prefer, truth, or mere animal survival?
Truth is a tool of survival. Without survival there is no truth.
There's no reason a society full of sages couldn't survive into the long-term using their own means. If these sages are unattractive to women, and if they don't want to rape and imprison women in order to breed, I am sure they could find some method of reproduction using science.
Should we uphold the rape, imprisonment, and torture of women as a virtue, because it enables strong men to pass on their genes?
What is the alternative? -- to ban it because it makes you feel icky.
If some behaviour doesn't serve your purpose then you personally seek not to do that behaviour. It's as simple as that.
"Truth" is no argument against any of these.
It is if truth is your purpose. But truth will only be your purpose if you value truth more than you value untruth. And you will only do this if you are made more satisfied by truth than by untruth.
NM: Would it be better for humanity to stagnate?

KS: It needs the proper management of sages. It's too important a thing to leave in the hands of animal-men and women.
Now it is important? I thought truth was the only important thing 2 lines up.
Wisdom has a better chance of surviving if wise people continue to survive, and are able to breed.
Management by sages -- sounds like a boring, uneventful, non-suffering life.
Unwise people will always suffer, since they create their own suffering. Even their boredom is their own self-created suffering. So they won't go short of all the suffering they so much enjoy.

But the sages will occupy themselves colonizing the universe. It's not as though they won't have anything to do.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Kevin Solway »

Neil wrote:And then they go around spreading the truth to the inferiors and defending the truth with a cemented closed mind that protects them.
That's hilarious. If only the world was as good as that!

Imagine people who are so wise that their mind is completely closed to all untruth, and there is no way that any untruth could possibly seep into their mind.

I wish I could be like that. :-)
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Ryan Rudolph
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Ryan Rudolph »

Neil,
My "better place" would not be at all "humane" as your is, it would be quite violent. Comprende?
but your violent action is only a means to an end, which you believe will make the world a better place, you still have a distorted sort of conscience that is motivated to change things for the better.

Moreover, you are disgusted with certain aspects of reality that you deem inferior, and violence is the first knee jerk reaction that you come up with, so you are not even choosing to think that, millions before you have come up with the same ideas, but things continue to be what they are.
Change does not have to be towards humaneness.
You are involuntarily motivated to think with a conscience, it is no choice of yours, the most horrific deeds are done because humans have a conscience, but they are motivated by the emotions, and not reason.
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Trevor Salyzyn
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Trevor Salyzyn »

Kevin,
If these sages are unattractive to women, and if they don't want to rape and imprison women in order to breed, I am sure they could find some method of reproduction using science.
The guy who invents reproduction is going to have a hard time being taken seriously by his colleagues.
Elizabeth Isabelle
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Kevin Solway wrote:If these sages are unattractive to women
Why would wise men be unattractive to wise women? If the women valued wisdom above all else, then they would all be attracted to either the wisest man, or the wisest man with the appropriate genetic complement to their own genes.
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skipair
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by skipair »

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:Why would wise men be unattractive to wise women?
Because sages don't cause inspiration on the emotional level. If the emotions aren't rockin, neither is the bed.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by daybrown »

I was crippled by polio in childhood. Which removed me from the set of stud muffins. I had a pretty boring time in high school. While other boys were sent to the ball field, they sent me to the library. Now, I realize how lucky I was. Some of my friends got girls pregnant in high school, and got stupid sons to show for it.

We now know that intelligence is handed down more on the mtDNA, personality more on the Y chromosome. My luck was good also in that I went to North High in MPLS, which at the time was 1/3 black, 1/3 WASP, and 1/3 Jewish. My friends went out for sports, but I was on the chess team. 2 wasp, 3 Jews. the best chess team in the state, for what we now know are obvious reasons.

Things really turned around for me in college, where women were older, smarter, and more interested in what was between my ears than between my legs, and because of that, took me between the sheets with them. They, and the uncounted scores of women afterwards, were more interested in what I had to say after sex than before it. "Hey Baby." didnt get anywhere with them. While other boys were reading sports manuals, I read Plato. They were more interested in Plato. And, as time went on, Aristotle, Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, Confucius, Sun Tzu, Lao Tzu, Vatsyana, Ramprasad... the latter three knowing something of Tantra.

And so it went for the next 50 years. And, at 68, while I can hardly imagine ever again being in the arms of a young woman who's really into it, what I know of Tantra and sacred potions mite, just mite, yet again be important. That is something that not even an old rich & powerful man could hope for.

I loved that TV commercial of the call girl astride some old dude in a hotel room pounding on his chest because of cardiac arrest. (what were they selling?) But I know there was a time when the Silk Road was booming, when young women believed it was good kharma to have sex with a bodhisattvah, and if he died during the encounter, they regarded it as a powerful spiritual experience.

It was understandable. To come in a vaginal cavity as you leave this world is related to the fact that you came out of one to get here.
Goddess made sex for company.
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skipair
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by skipair »

Daybrown, the difference between the 'boring" high school you and the getting laid college you was not the girls. Girls don't give a shit about plato, Lao Tsu, or whoever when it comes to sexuality. They gave a shit about YOU being passionate about it - you're absolutely right about the magic being between your ears. There is actually a guy in the seduction community who is in a wheel chair and gets as many women as he wants. It just goes to show that the attraction mechanisms are really and honestly triggered by attitude and the mental realm. Something in there changed when you went to college. Nicely done.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Elizabeth Isabelle »

Daybrown,

I assume you are speaking of red tantra. For the sake of not spreading misperceptions that all 3 tantras are the same, I ask that you please specify. Too many people are not willing to even hear of white tantra once they hear about red (or black) tantra, and don't realize there is a big difference.

I do appreciate your mentioning again that you have seen first-hand evidence of non-shallow women. There is much to be said of maturity from both genders, but when guys automatically rule out anything but the teeny-bopper types, they get a skewed view.
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Shardrol
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Shardrol »

What are red & white & black tantra?
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Imadrongo
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Imadrongo »

Kevin Solway wrote:Imagine people who are so wise that their mind is completely closed to all untruth, and there is no way that any untruth could possibly seep into their mind.
I imagine this would be quite boring. Reminds me of Marvin from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by skipair »

Shardrol, you naughty girl ;)
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Shardrol »

I've heard this idea before, that an enlightened person would be 'boring'. We here in the West seem to have a cultural prejudice in favor of neurosis. Many believe that it is the root of artistic achievement of all kinds.

The funny thing is that neurosis is actually way more boring & confining than sanity. There are only so many ways a person can be deluded & self-destructive. The general patterns have been codified & it's only the details that are different.

Being deluded means one's mind is not wide-ranging & free, it is confined to particular set pathways. Enlightenment just means not having any delusions. What's interesting about delusions? They're a dime a dozen. But being able to see through the clouds to Reality itself. That would be s o m e t h i n g indeed.
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skipair
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by skipair »

Shardrol, we in the west have a soaring freedom.... vast fields of bright flowers showered with stars smiling in the heavens...the electricity of genius would be hard pressed not to find its place there, and it would certainly be something to stimulate the minds of all...hope for the explosion of reason yet to come! Best to all.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Shardrol »

Skipair

I didn't mean that we're more neurotic here in the West than they are in the East, but I thought Neil's comment about 'boring' illustrated a common fallacy of western culture. Eastern culture is neurotic in different ways.
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Imadrongo
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Imadrongo »

Shardrol wrote:I've heard this idea before, that an enlightened person would be 'boring'. We here in the West seem to have a cultural prejudice in favor of neurosis. Many believe that it is the root of artistic achievement of all kinds.

The funny thing is that neurosis is actually way more boring & confining than sanity. There are only so many ways a person can be deluded & self-destructive. The general patterns have been codified & it's only the details that are different.

Being deluded means one's mind is not wide-ranging & free, it is confined to particular set pathways. Enlightenment just means not having any delusions. What's interesting about delusions? They're a dime a dozen. But being able to see through the clouds to Reality itself. That would be s o m e t h i n g indeed.
Personally I would find large scale asceticism boring. Morality, "absolute truth", non-emotion, calling everything an illusion -- sure sounds like sages are free and not confined to any particular set of pathways....

Sages are not free to suffer (samsara), to be happy (samsara), to be immoral (not sure why), to have worldly desires or goals (cause of suffering), to have emotions (deemed delusional), to do anything intuitively or irrationally (bound to rationality).
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by daybrown »

The early Taoist texts did not call it Tantra. But if it walks like a duck... Ramprasad does not give the practice he praises so highly a name either. Only Vatsyayana, who wrote for a different, and more corrupt culture. I dont recall that he specified a color either.

But the tradition was subject to the same kind of drivel that was laid on the Christian message by the Catholic church, a complex system with a myriad of special chants to make the adepts think they knew something. If you consider the ornimation of Hindu and Catholic sacred spaces you have a clue.

The earliest ashrams ever found are in the Kara Kum, abandoned 4000 years ago when the grassland dried up, probably exacerbated by over grazing. But at Gonur and Togoluk we have the large meditation hall and the set of individual monk cells. But also, a sacred apocathery. All of it in plain white plaster.

Musta been one helluva protection spell. Thru all that time, 4000 years, it lay out there in the desert, and nobody desecrated the sacred spaces. Desert sand accumulated on the roofs and they caved in, but otherwise everything totally intact, no grafitti.

And in the apocathery, next to the sacred workbench altar, just as Saint Ramprasad alludes to, bowls for sacred potions, completely intact with their dessicated, but recognizable contents: cannibis, ephedra, opium.

Satellite radar identified the compressed ground of ancient trade routes in central Asia. They radiated out from a central point in the Kara Kum, so they went there and found an abandoned city. Which predated the Pyramids. *This*, not India, is where the vedic tradition got going. RG Wasson, "Persephone's Quest" researched the source of "Soma" the famous Vedic potion, and found that Ugarit shamen were still using it. He surmised that along with the East/West Silk Road, there was another North/South Soma Road from Siberia all the way to the Indus.

He didnt know anything about these which were not discovered until long after he published. The ashrams are along one of the routes to India. The most reliable path to spiritual enlightenment is the right sacred potion at the right sacred time in the right sacred space with the right sacred partner. Not that there are not other ways, but this works most reliably for most people in the shortest time. Neither they, nor the Taoists, were into long periods of withdrawl from society for the sake of spiritual enlightenment, but rather to deliver it as quickly and reliably as possible so that the initiates could bring it back with them into their daily lives with the people they cared about.

BTW: *this* is the time of year in the temperate zone to go into the woods to look for Amanita Muscaria. Soon as you find it, slice down thru the cap and stem to start it drying *immediately*. Otherwise fly eggs will hatch out and turn it to mush. As it dries there are chemical changes that detoxify it. The mushroom books which warn people dont know about this, but the Ugarit shamen did. When dry, slather it with reindeer tallow. If you dont have that, you can use butter, or like the Brahmins, ghee.

Start with 1 gram of dried shroom for every 25 lb of body weight. A. Muscaria cannot be grown commercially, only found in the wild. It varies in strength, and a Shakti will experiment with any given batch before hand to know how much to use, and then make an assessment of the initiate; some psyches need more of a kick to get them up on the astral plane.

But its not like a recreational drug. It comes on slowly over the course of an hour or so, and works really well with food. Vatsyayana mentions some delicacies, but Soma has an effect on all mucosa, not just vaginal tissues, so the salivary glands are also remarkably responsive. There's no problem after an hour of upping the dose if need be.

Just make sure to avoid alcohol the day before, and during ritual. the fatty acids in butter, lard, ghee, tallow, or whatever, neutralize the fatty alkaloids in A. Muscaria that can cause gastric distress. Alcohol washes the protective coating off the intestinal walls, and can make a Christian who's had a beer that day so sick he'll think he's going to meet Jesus. Another reason they thot it was poison.

Do not attempt ritual in a private personal space. The associations that come with that space, and the relationships with the people that live in it, will distract from getting on the astral plane. A tent in the woods would work just fine. A church would too if the congregation didnt object. But its not a spectator event for novices.

There are a lotta different sacred potions that work, but the archeological evidence is that Aryans have used Soma for at least 7000 years. Native Americans mite do better with peyote, mescaline, pscilocybin, or whatever is in their shamantic tradition. Wasson says that Ugarit shamen think maybe 1 in 10,000 is allergic, but if so, its not likely only A. Muscaria, but all shrooms. I have always given initiates a dime size piece to eat at least a few days before a ritual to make sure they are not allergic.

I expect that opium, ephedra and cannibis could be combined to make a suitable potion, but Soma is *legal*. If you cant find the shrooms in the woods, you can order them online. I've only used Soma on the new or full moon; it takes a fortnite to make sure your liver has processed all the compounds. Addictive use would produce liver failure. There never have been any Soma addicts. And by itself, is quite useful to facilitate meditation, altered states of consciousness, and the astral planes.

The only diff with tantra, is that you go there *with* someone. This dramatically reduces the fear that some people have of the journey. You dont worry about being left out there. All that business that Vatsyayana gives about chakrahs is for the benefit of young men, to give them something complex to distract the conscious mind to hopefully keep them from orgasm too soon. An experienced Shakti would be far more able to handle that problem no matter what the young man thinks he knows.

http://www.silk-road.com/newsletter/vol ... _bloom.php makes mention of a collaborative effort by the Brits and Chinese to put jpgs of 100,000 artifacts and documents that have been found in the deserts of Central Asia, which is but a small part of what has been found, most of which has not been even looked at, much less translated. We can expect that as this work progresses, we will hear about more Vedic texts that relate to this. Most of it was written by a female hand.
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Jamesh
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Jamesh »

I've heard this idea before, that an enlightened person would be 'boring'. We here in the West seem to have a cultural prejudice in favor of neurosis. Many believe that it is the root of artistic achievement of all kinds.
I'm one of those who believes delusion is the conceptual creationary force. I think enlightened control of society would be a dead end.
The funny thing is that neurosis is actually way more boring & confining than sanity. There are only so many ways a person can be deluded & self-destructive. The general patterns have been codified & it's only the details that are different.
That is true for us, but not true for a developing person. A young person with limited experience finds much novelty in the human world and this will always be the case - even if we obtain methods to upload data into the brain.
Being deluded means one's mind is not wide-ranging & free, it is confined to particular set pathways.
I think differently. I think being almost non-deluded is the tightest bind of all, that confines one to a limited set of pathways. Just look at the repetitiveness and lack of novelty in David and Kevin for instance. It is little different from being significantly deluded.

Therefore developing a flowing mean between the two should offer maximum freedom.

And in any case, it is not really non-delusion, but delusion that is so well structured and organised that it gives an appearance of non-delusion. To me it is clearly fundamentalism.
Enlightenment just means not having any delusions. What's interesting about delusions? They're a dime a dozen. But being able to see through the clouds to Reality itself. That would be s o m e t h i n g indeed.
The grass is always greener on the other side. Why is it that people believe the QRS or any other guru's when they say that a state of non-delusion is something generically important. These folk certainly do not "see [perfectly] through the clouds to Reality itself".

I'd bet money that if they had not developed a habit of teaching others, then they would either turn back to delusion or neck themselves. In humans emotion/feeling is ALWAYS all that counts, it just happens that they find reward [read positive emotion] in robotic behaviour. Without emotion one is simply not conscious. They just have developed an ability for the body to supply a constant low level dose of positive emotion, rather than the fluctuating levels of more deluded people. Surely the most enlightened person, the fullest living, most conscious and alive person is one who can do both - maintain a steady stream of positiveness, but also get excited or sad in a controlled fashion when the time is right.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Imadrongo »

Jamesh wrote:I'd bet money that if they had not developed a habit of teaching others, then they would either turn back to delusion or neck themselves. In humans emotion/feeling is ALWAYS all that counts, it just happens that they find reward [read positive emotion] in robotic behaviour. Without emotion one is simply not conscious. They just have developed an ability for the body to supply a constant low level dose of positive emotion, rather than the fluctuating levels of more deluded people. Surely the most enlightened person, the fullest living, most conscious and alive person is one who can do both - maintain a steady stream of positiveness, but also get excited or sad in a controlled fashion when the time is right.
I agree. They live by preaching death. Nietzsche has some interesting things to say about this in Genealogy of Morals.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Kevin Solway »

Neil Melnyk wrote:Personally I would find large scale asceticism boring.
You're thinking of the abstinence from pleasure. But the perfectly enlightened sage doesn't do this. Such a person has no need of pleasure since they don't feel lacking in any way. They are already in heaven.
. . . calling everything an illusion
The sage doesn't have any illusions. It's only the deluded people who have the illusions.
-- sure sounds like sages are free and not confined to any particular set of pathways....
A person cannot be other than what they are. We can't criticize a person for being "unfree" just because they cannot break the laws of logic.

The difference between the wise and the foolish is that the wise are controlled by truth and reason, whereas the fool is controlled by delusions. Neither have any truly free will.
. . . to do anything intuitively
All of our thoughts, including the rational ones, come from that which is non-rational; namely, individual brain cells, energy from food, oxygen, etc. So, if you like, all thoughts arise intuitively. So the sage certainly doesn't avoid the intuitive life. To the contrary, because his mind is not clogged-up with emotions and other delusions, his intuitions can flow that much more freely.
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Shardrol »

Jamesh wrote:
Shardrol wrote:I've heard this idea before, that an enlightened person would be 'boring'. We here in the West seem to have a cultural prejudice in favor of neurosis. Many believe that it is the root of artistic achievement of all kinds.
I'm one of those who believes delusion is the conceptual creationary force.
What is it about delusion that you see as creative? It's more like 10,000 different ways to annoy oneself & others.
Shardrol wrote:The funny thing is that neurosis is actually way more boring & confining than sanity. There are only so many ways a person can be deluded & self-destructive. The general patterns have been codified & it's only the details that are different.
That is true for us, but not true for a developing person. A young person with limited experience finds much novelty in the human world and this will always be the case - even if we obtain methods to upload data into the brain.
By 'neurosis' I don't mean the human world. What I mean is the myriad ways in which people cause their own suffering through their very attempts to find safety & happiness.
Just look at the repetitiveness and lack of novelty in David and Kevin for instance. It is little different from being significantly deluded.
I actually think they're both quite creative about finding new ways to express the same thing.
In humans emotion/feeling is ALWAYS all that counts,
Careful there, Skipair might try to seduce you . . .
. . . Without emotion one is simply not conscious. They just have developed an ability for the body to supply a constant low level dose of positive emotion, rather than the fluctuating levels of more deluded people. Surely the most enlightened person, the fullest living, most conscious and alive person is one who can do both - maintain a steady stream of positiveness, but also get excited or sad in a controlled fashion when the time is right.
I don't actually agree with the idea that an enlightened person would experience no emotion. Emotions are part of the weather system of the body. The difference between the emotions of an enlightened person & the emotions of a deluded person is that the enlightened person is not conditioned by their emotions. Emotions arise, exist for a while & then dissolve leaving no traces.
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Imadrongo
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Re: Poison for the Heart - and Women

Post by Imadrongo »

Kevin,
NM: Personally I would find large scale asceticism boring.

KS: You're thinking of the abstinence from pleasure. But the perfectly enlightened sage doesn't do this. Such a person has no need of pleasure since they don't feel lacking in any way. They are already in heaven.
The perfectly enlightened sage doesn't abstain from pleasure? I thought pleasure was part of samsara and must be avoided. And I'm not sure how you feel like you are in "heaven" but I doubt this feeling would persist without the vast majority of other people in "hell".
NM: -- sure sounds like sages are free and not confined to any particular set of pathways....

KS: A person cannot be other than what they are. We can't criticize a person for being "unfree" just because they cannot break the laws of logic.
Please don't use fatalism in a rebuttal and deny it as an argument.
NM: . . . to do anything intuitively

KS: All of our thoughts, including the rational ones, come from that which is non-rational; namely, individual brain cells, energy from food, oxygen, etc. So, if you like, all thoughts arise intuitively. So the sage certainly doesn't avoid the intuitive life. To the contrary, because his mind is not clogged-up with emotions and other delusions, his intuitions can flow that much more freely.
You are saying rationality stems from that which is non-rational. So why should we be rational? Is being rational not irrational?
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