Cui Bono?

[hsandman]

<Hsandman: The demolition operation by a team of around 25+ people per building took 7-8 months.>
that's only necessary if they have to string wire. Wirelessly, a week would be plenty.

Well, I assume they used cutting edge tech for this kind of op. Access to top military toys and limitless funding can produce impressive results. It's very impressive slight of hand trick.

[Tomas]

<Hsandman: The demolition operation by a team of around 25+ people per building took 7-8 months.>
that's only necessary if they have to string wire. Wirelessly, a week would be plenty.

Well, I assume they used cutting edge tech for this kind of op. Access to top military toys and limitless funding can produce impressive results. It's very impressive slight of hand trick.

Ditto for the so-called earthquakes registered on that 9/11 day. Completely unlike normal earthquakes (re controlled demos of skyscrapers)

Been researching that the Twins were closed a couple weeks prior, the floors were (i think) between the 79th and 95th floors.

Completely robotic (767?) aircraft, those birds were flown by satellites like the Predator craft were/are.

There were a few test flights of predator in April-May of 2001. Over Pacific-Hawaii and up around Grand Forks-Fargo areas.

Happy Hooligans (out of Fargo, North Dakota National Air Guard) shot down the Pittsburgh craft because the passengers had entered the cockpit only to find the pilots were already dead!

The world works in mysterious way :-(


Tomas (the tank)
VietNam veteran - 1971

.

[daybrown]

I was mopping a cafeteria floor after lunch when the radio told me JFK was shot. My immediate thot was there goes Goldwater. I knew LBJ would do anything to become president, whereas Goldwater had too much integrity.

then, when I saw Jack Ruby shoot Oswald, I realized the fix was in, and we no longer really had a functional democracy. But now, with 911, I think the boys in the CIA have gone too far, and we will either get democracy back, or dissolve the Untied States of Denial, and you all get to put your ass where your mouth has been, to move to whatever state you think has been run the way you've been saying things should be.

Either that, or the power elite will have to pony up trillions to keep the middle class on the couch watching football. Place your bets. The Saudi's chipped in to keep Citi group going so it would not foreclose too many. The fed really gonna lower the interest rate to keep the mortgage payments at an affordable level? Are the Chinese then gonna still support the dollar? If not, then 911 will open up like a festering boil, with everyone who thinks the government owes them a living spilling their guts about what 911 did to America.

If TSHTF, the good old boy network will go down, they will quit relying on their friends to protect them, and as Gibbon says, every man will rise to the station to which his true nature has entitled him. Those with the power of reason to think beyond the group think foisted up the sheeple by the corporate media will see the opportunities first. They wont be waiting for Jesus to bail their asses out either.

Course, the global economy may bite the bullet, and yet again, let the Yankees leaving them holding the bag. The games will go on, but the smart money is already being invested in smaller cities, not the great power centers. Cui bono; does whatever government we will have, still need the CIA, or are there other more reliable sources of information? Think of how much money the media would make off a new 911 investigation. Tremendous ratings, but trivial production costs. Yum yum. Does anyone really think the CIA knows whats going on in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Iran? Or knows where the nukes are? or thinks that the CIA can prevent a nuclear attack?

Given the risk assessments, where would you rather invest? New York, & Washington DC, or Tulsa & Davenport? Whether TSHTF or not, there will be a dispersal of power and money out of the rich target great power centers. Where would you rather work, in a high rise target downtown, or a suburban office park closer to where you live? And if we dont need the high rises, do we need the CIA's assurance that they can protect them? Those boys have a problem.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

You can of course argue that the sampling was un-representative, but that's a wholly different beast from saying that the sample size is too small.

Consider me corrected on that. Without digging into every detail of their method I cannot judge it very well. Actually I don't have a problem with their finding so it was not productive to even bring it up.

What I do wonder if there's actually a meaning to their conclusion. It's rather obvious that extreme anti-Zionism can and will be part of some antisemitism out there. It's like demonstrating anti-drugs proponents are in significant numbers also member of a fundamentalist religion. Duh.

I am not surprised you are in love with those two losers though. They appeal to your bigotry.

I only countered your silly study with this one. And my example brings a bit more undeniable relevant stuff to the discussion than your red herring did, even when it would contain errors: the main thesis of the work is flawless and describes quite indisputable the role of Israel in American foreign policy and the absurd media management of it all.

If anything, the smear campaigns against these respected scholars are yet more overwhelming evidence of the point I made earlier: that rational discourse on the topic is hardly possible anymore in most of the West, thanks to all the people sharing your mindset; poisoning the well the moment the outcome of a debate threatens to be in conflict with their so dearly hold perception of reality.

[Faust]

How about the fact that complete passages from protocols were lifted nearly verbatim from another book which was published decades earlier?..

hah. How about the fact that you didn't read my links at all? Makow explicitly writes about this here http://www.savethemales.ca/000298.html

According to Graves, Protocols is a crude, chapter-by-chapter plagiarism of Maurice Joly's Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864).

It was easy to make this claim while Joly's book was unavailable. Napolean III's police confiscated it as soon as it was published.

But it is available now and I invite you to compare the two texts. In my opinion, they are entirely different in tone, content and purpose. At 140 pages, Dialogues is twice as long as Protocols. Most of it finds no echo in the Protocols.

The crux of Graves' argument is that certain references and passages in Protocols were lifted from Dialogues. He claims there are 50 of these and produces about a dozen.

Their striking resemblance to Protocols leaves little doubt that the author did refer to the Dialogues as part of his research. He had no compunction about borrowing or reshaping a few passages that struck his fancy.

Indeed Philip Graves is "struck by the absence of any effort on the part of the plagiarist to conceal his plagiarisms."

That's because he had nothing to hide.

He was not Graves' "unimportant precis- writer employed by the court or by the Okhrana" to construct a hoax.

He was a diabolical genius crafting an original work. It is simplistic and disingenuous to characterize Protocols as a hoax.

Anyway, little more needs to be said, really. You are the designated Moron Who Believes In Protocols. You have no idea how much of an idiot you are, do you?..

yawn, the 8 year old gnome tries to be witty. It is perfectly possible for the Protocols to be true, regardless of who wrote it. Most of the stuff in it has happened and is happening.

Conspiracy theories and rabid anti-semitism. Sweet! keep on talking, dude, we zionists have no better friends than idiots like you!

*yawn* the 12 year old gnome tries to be witty again. The gnome who refuses to acknowledge that 'semite' for centuries means Arab and Jew. Oh no, 'semite' the word is special only to the Jews cause it's been bastardized that way, yawn...

Too bad Zionism IS 'anti-semitic' as it goes totally against the religion of Judaism. Here, honest Jews will tell you, really:

The core citations from classical Judaic sources cited and utilized by Teitelbaum in his ideological war of words against modern Zionism are based on an important teaching from the Talmud in tractate Kethuboth 111a: Based on a passage from the Song of Songs in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) wherein God made the Israelites promise "to wait for Him before arousing his love."
King Solomon in Song of Songs thrice adjured the "daughters of Jerusalem" not to arouse or bestir the love until it is ready." The Talmud explains that we have been foresworn, by three strong oaths not to ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force, not to rebel against the governments of countries in which we live, and not by our sins, to prolong the coming of moshiach; as is written in Tractate Kesubos 111a . [1]

The Zionist State of Israel then, is seen by Satmar Hasidim as a form of "impatience" and in keeping with the Talmud's warnings that being impatient for God's love leads to "grave danger", Satmar Hasidism explains that the constant wars in Israel are seen as "fulfilment" of that prophecy.

Thus, Teitelbaum saw his opposition to Zionism as a way of protecting Jewish lives and preventing bloodshed. Although some Haredi rabbis may agree with this idea, the general view of Agudath Israel and many other orthodox rabbis is that for all practical purposes, through participating in the Israeli government, efforts can be made to promote religious Judaism in Israel. Rabbi Teitelbaum, however, felt that any participation in the Israeli government, even voting in elections, was a grave sin, because it contributes to the spiritual and physical destruction of innocent people. He was openly opposed to the views of Agudath Israel, and until the present time, the official Satmar movement refuses to become a member of the Agudath Israel organization or party. The Satmar view is that only the Jewish Messiah can bring about a new Jewish government in the Holy Land, and even if a government declaring itself religious would be formed before the Messiah, it would be illegitimate due to its improper arrogation of power.

funny thing is, Theodore Herzl PROMOTED 'anti-semitism' in order to increase the chances of Israel:

“It is essential that the sufferings of Jews. . . become worse. . . this will assist in realization of our plans. . .

I have an excellent idea. . . I shall induce anti-Semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. . .

The anti-Semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews.

The anti-Semites shall be our best friends”

how convenient, producing hatred as a TOOL for your ends...quite sad and pathetic

Now let's see the role of Zionism in the apparent Holocaust, and see just how much Zionists co-operated with the Nazis:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antis ... upport.cfm

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antis ... /index.cfm

[Faust]

I think Faust needs to accept that the Protocols are a forgery, because it's pretty well established. However, one might reasonably suggest that this is of lesser significance than the possibility of the verity of its content. I don't have anything specific to say on that; I'm just making the point.

actually no it's not pretty well established Dan, you lazy fool. What you just said was nothing but a meme that conveniently people submit to without question, the usual, "yeah I mean come on, EVERYONE knows it's like, a forgery."

Yes it's the content that matters.

[Faust]

The narrative is formed through a lie. The lie is believed. The belief functions and operates, gains a following, as with *genuflections* Mr. Tex Mars.

yawn, yeah Mr. Texe Mars' well documented conclusions that the leaders of the US have unquestioning, zealous support of the rogue state even if it means destruction of their own countries. I never knew that Bush was a Jew, yet there he was, wearing the yamekah, and praying on the wailing wall.....

Faust is young yet, and still needs the documents, the 'proof', the hard evidence, but once the view is established---a sort of paranoid-violent hallucination (a demonology)---he will be able to do away with them too. (But what is established is the basis of a 'psychic epidemic' and it is pretty clear to me that his is how these ideas are functioning. To establish a psychic epidemic one really needs no 'proofs', or the proofs are entirely incidental, they are just triggers.)

yes, the proofs are *triggers* precisely because it's PROOF of what's happening, and its striking resemblance to the Protocols.

It is almost exactly in this way that anti-semitism was formed in the minds of gentiles between 1500-1000 years ago in Medieval Europe, and the documents, the 'proof', the lies that were used to create and establish the belief were the Gospels themselves, the proto-anti-semitic documents.

uh no. There was anti-Judaism in Medieval Europe precisely because the Jews as a group were a menace to the host countries. No one has mentioned about the collective, Hive-Borg like nature of the Jews. They aren't *individuals* choosing morality and values *individually*. They are a collective entity, a single organism that were exiled in European countries over and over due to their menacing behaviour. One would think WHY 'anti-semitism' would come about anyways, shit like that doesn't happen for no reason.

down through the ages, things such as this has been said:

Seneca B.C. 4 to A.D. 5
"The customs of this accursed people have grown so strong, that they have spread through every land".

St Justin 116 A.D.
"The Jews were behind all the persecutions of the Christians. They wandered through the country everywhere hating and undermining the Christian faith."

Mohammed 570
"It is incomprehensible to me, why one has not long ago expelled these death-breathing beasts . . . are these Jews anything else but devourers of men?"

Martin Luther 1483
"How the Jews love the book of Esther, which is so suitable to their bloodthirsty, revengeful, murderous appetite and hope. The sun has never shone on such a bloodthirsty and vindictive people, who cherish the idea of murdering and strangling the heathen. No other men under the sun are more greedy than they have been, and always will be, as one can see from their accursed usury. They console themselves that when their Messiah comes he will collect all the gold and silver in the world and divide it among them."

Clement VIII Pope 1592
"All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate peoples into a state of poverty, especially farmers, working-class people, and the very poor."

Voltaire 1694
"The Jews are nothing but an ignorant and barbaric people, which have for a long time combined the most loathsome avarice with the most abominable superstition and inextinguishable hated of all peoples by whom they are tolerated, and through whom they are enriched."

Napoleon
"I decided to improve the Jews: but I do not want any more of them in my Kingdom: indeed, I have done all to prove my scorn of the vilest nation in the world."

Benjamin Franklin 1789
Statement in the Convention, concerning Jewish Immigration:-

"There is a great danger for the United States of America, this great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land which the Jews have settled, they have depressed the normal level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated -- they have created a state within a state, and when they are opposed they attempt to strangle the nation financially as in the case of Portugal and Spain. For more than 1700 years, they have lamented their sorrowful fate -- namely, that they were driven out of their motherland, but gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reasons for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires -- they cannot live among themselves; they must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race."If they are not excluded from the United States by the Constitution, within less than 100 years, they will stream into this country in such numbers they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded, within 200 years our children will be working in the fields to feed the Jews while they remain in the Counting House gleefully rubbing their hands."I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children's children will curse you in your graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans even when they have lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change its spots. The Jews are a danger to this land and if they are allowed to enter they will imperil our institutions -- they should be excluded by the Constitution."

No wonder Jews don't accept Jesus as their Messiah. Jesus was the stepping stone from Judaism to Christianity, as Weininger said.

There's also that peculiar Jewish ritual sacrifice that went down: http://www.jrbooksonline.com/schramm/schramm.htm

Then there's Jews who FAKE HATE CRIMES against themselves!!!! http://thegreatrevolt.wordpress.com/200 ... inflicted/

Read the stories of Jews who draw swastikas on their doors, claim to be raped by Nazis, and burn Jewish communities!!!

And story of prominent Jewish political leaders staging anti-semitic phone calls to themselves!!! http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo ... story.html

what despicable behaviour, with this kind of attitude, no wonder they have a bad wrap..

[daybrown]

I dont claim to know who, Faust13, wrote the Elders of Zion, but like 911, I know who didnt do it. In this case, it was not the Ashkenazic Jews. Just ask a computer. the stylistic software is out there. People who are raised speaking one language, use another differently. Partly this is due to the organizational habits of the mind to search for similarities so as to reduce the total number of words of both languages that need to be remembered.

In like manner, the Book of J has been extracted from the Torah; there are turns of phrase, or the order of events, or the kinds of insights that arise that reveal the mind of the author. Which we now realize was a woman.

There are things in the Elders of Zion that no Ashkenazic Jew would say because they went without saying. The successful forger really has to understand the nature of the orginal, and in the case, the forger assumed that the Ashkenazic Jews were Semites, when in fact, they were Aryans from Sogdia. So he ascribed to them mental characteristics of the Sephardic Jews and Arabs. He didnt really understand the source of the Torah either.

It was not written in the Holy Land, but compiled from separate sources in Babylon after the Persians took them there. That's why it has snippets of the Egyptian Book of the Dead & parts of Gilgamesh, with a cosmology borrowed from Zoroaster. The true authors took some of the work of J, both of whom were from Parthia or Sarmatia as it was then known, which had a literary tradition that went back to the roots of the Vedas among the towns of what became known as the Silk Road thousands of years before.

You understand that when you try to read Egyptian literature, which frankly sux. They do not know how to tell a story. The merchants on the Silk Road did; you need to to stay in business. The Elders of Zion is just too fucking corny. Anyway, Cyrus lets the Jews go back to Jerusalem. Some go, and suddenly find the Torah, saying it is hundreds of years old, without knowing how rediculous that claim looks to us now because it is written in perfect 6th century Hebrew.

The author of the Elders of Zion has the same problem. He didnt know how language and usage changed over time. Its like he's telling us he found a copy of a lost Shakespearian play, only its written in a 19th century language. Anyway, after Cyrus frees the Jews, some of them are already in business, dont go to Jerusalem, but up to Kashgar, Tashkent, or Samarkand to duke it out with the Zoroastrians. Zoroaster is real good on special effects, has some simple sellable ideas, but the "Jews" take that and add a real piece of literature that is a much more entertaining narrative.

They been at it a long time Faust. The Ashkenazic Jews are all over our media cause they are such damn good story tellers, and the "Elders of Zion" is a piece of hack work totally lacking in their genius. Its like he was trying to pass off a piece done by Solieri as if it was done by Mozart. puleeeze

And of course, the forger had his own Christian audience in mind, and laid it on a bit thick cause we all know how stupid Christians are.

[hsandman]

First and foremost, we need to understand that Zionists who also often call themselves Jews are the ones that fabricate hate crimes against their own people in order to lay the blame on others and thus attract world sympathy. More than anybody else these hardened criminal masters of deceptions and hoaxes are in need of sympathy. However, they never get any sympathy from anybody except those who are using them in order to achieve world domination. They would even set up neo-nazis movements and organize anti-Jewish demonstrations in order to lay the blame on white supremacists.

There are many facets to those self-inflicting hate crimes. We have those who have been caught in the act, but most are not and innocent people have been jailed, have lost their jobs after being victim of well orchestrated demonising campaigns, and even lose their lives when they are first lynched by the mainstream media and then hunted down by Israeli and other Zionist death squads.

Those criminal and brain-dead fanatics have already highjacked and monopolised the term Semitism to mean exclusively: {anti-Jew, anti-Zionist and anti-Israel} all under the same concept as: "Anti-Semitism".


While this paradox is amusing, it’s deadly serious. This manufactured “hate” is what organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center make their money on. It’s also social engineering and manipulation of the most dangerous kind, created to cause division among people, suspicion and paranoia.

It’s a case of problem, reaction, solution. The real, hidden problem,created by the Zionists them selves!

The solution is an Orwellian police state, complete with thought crime. The wet dream of tyrants.

If you’re a member of the apocalyptic Zionist cult that wants to start wars and needs people to see Jews are perpetual inherent victims — in such a position you need a certain amount of persecution. (No wonder then, that vic a self professed zionist, appears to display such glee, when people mirror his own attitudes back at him, for it is a pride of a job well done, a celebration of breakdown of civility (ie. A hate crime) towards him and by proxy, his “oppressed and slighted people”, which he always tries to paint in terms as being anti-semitic. That anti-semitic blanket is geting very transparent. :-S )

The only defense of Israeli crimes is that everyone hates them, their backs are to the wall and there’s no choice, but since nobody hates them for who they are, they have always had choices and the only walls are of their own making, reality has to be managed. One of the most disturbing things about Zionism is that since it believes that assimilation is doomed, even if it looks successful and has been for years, it is better in the long term to destroy an assimilationist paradise and force the Jews to flee in fear to their “only refuge,” Israel. David ben-Gurion said that he would rather let Jewish refugees die rather than let them reach a non-Israeli harbor. Currently there’s very active work towards creating the legislation that will actually make the hate itself a crime as well.

http://theconstructivecurmudgeon.blogsp ... -bill.html

“Last week the House Judiciary Committee, egged on by radical homosexual groups, passed what can only be called a Thought Crimes bill. It’s called the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act. But this bill is not about hate. It’s not even about crime. It’s about outlawing peaceful speech—speech that asserts that homosexual behavior is morally wrong.”

Once one piece like that passes, it’s just a technical nuance to extend it to other groups, who are really behind this movement, but are too clever to disclose it too early.
I’ve done a lot of checking out the money behind the groups who foment division. I always keep running into Rockefeller and Ford Foundation money, along with multinational corporations and ’social justice’ NGOs.

The Money reveals the agenda. In the US, the Latino lobby is funded by these shit stirring entities. In the past, the US and Mexico were very friendly, with people moving freely. Now that the Latino lobby is calling all Americans racist pigs for not wanting to FINANCIALLY SUPPORT 30 million illegals, there is terrible tension and looming violence. Gee, I wonder who THAT benefits? Try the overlords. If anyone REALLY wants to see how this game is played, and it looks there are sincere and smart seekers of truth here, then read the following. It is long, but once you read it, you will KNOW without a doubt who is doing the evil manipulating for profit and control. And, btw, Rockefeller traces back to Rothschild and the British Empire.

British Israel: The Hidden Hand Behind the
‘The Kingdom of God on Earth’ Deception

British Israel Uses Christian Fundamentalist Evangelicals to Promote the “Kingdom of God on Earth’ Scheme to Deliver Up A One World Society-Both Feudal and Fascist

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/britishi ... ul05.shtml
BTW, does anyone else think the concept of “anti-semitism” is racist? If the word “racism” is good enough to describe discrimination against 99.9% of the population, why isn’t it good enough for the the rest of the human race, i.e. Jews? Why do we need a special word to describe discrimination against Jews? Is discrimination against Jews somehow more important than discrimination against the rest of us?

And what about all this "Gentile" nonsense? Isn’t it the height of racism to say that the only distinction of notice about 99.9% of the human race (i.e. "Gentiles" or as jacob puts it: "slaves" and "superstitious peasants". )is that they aren’t Jewish?!

Note, the same question applies to the Japanese with their Gaijin nonsense. What exactly do you mean by “foreign devil”?!

Is painting swastikas on your own door, when you’re a Jew, a hate crime? Should they be punished according to that "special law"?

Remember: Staging a hate crime, is a hate crime itself against the framed racial group!

Hate crime in my interpretation : actions of a group, towards other group of people, based purely on inferred (genetic, religious, etc) make-up of that group of people. Crime steaming from "unsubstantiated and baseless hate" i.e. for no good reason! A crime motivated by prejudice against a social group.

Is not crime a crime? Since when motive plays such a role in criminal prosecution of a crime?! But, there is a reason behind this raveling of the criminal justice system (hmm, criminal justice system?! o_O heh.).


Zionists have been making a packet out of being victims, and are spending it on building houses, on the free lands that they steal from Palestinians, while getting even more of our money to protect themselves from the angry land owners whose lands have been stolen.

So, here, they already have a stolen identity. A Jewish author, Arthur Koestler and his wife were both murdered in London (passed as suicide by the Zionist-controlled Police!) because Arthur had published the Thirteenth Tribe showing that almost 90% of those who claim to be Semites are in fact Ashkenazi Talmudists of Turkic-Mongolian stock and not of Semitic stock at all.

According to another Jewish author, Pr Norman Finkelstein (today witch-hunted by the Zionists) showed that the so-called Jews keep lying about an increase on “anti-Semitism”, and that any increase in hatred for Jews based purely on raceism (i.e. For no good reason!), is of their own fabrication. It has been the daily food for the mainstream media to alert the world in a daily increase of anti-Semitism (anti-Jewism), which if believed would mean that Jews are the most hated and victimised people in the world. How can this be, when the so-called Jews (including Talmudists, Zionists, Communists, Atheists, Socialists, Democrats, Republicans, Nazis, and so on) are running the politics of most western and other governments and using the religion of Jews as a shield to cover up their criminal activities around the globe?

Whenever there are wars, terrorist attacks, economic crashes, they are never far behind! They knew in advance of the 9/11 attacks on US soil and admitted it was “good for Israel”. The Jew Larry Silverstein was part of the conspiracy against the American people and benefited from it. They were warned of the London 7/7 attacks and in both cases they were responsible for the airport, tube and bus security and surveillance systems! And so on.

While the world has its attention focused on so-called hate crimes, the Zionist criminal mafia is taking over the planet, stealing its resources, terrorising and murdering millions directly and by proxy, but let's all ignore the 5 dancing Israely operatives in America., Who were there to "DOCUMENT AND ABSERVE 9/11"! for that makes us all conspiracy nuts and ANTI-SEMITES!

<Organised in post by me.>

[daybrown]

Its real simple Hsandman; if the culture stopped being Christian, it'd stop electing Christian politicians, and nobody would feel that victims, Jewish or otherwise, deserved support. Feeding the hungry and supporting the victims is Christian dogma. The pre-Christian, native European tradition was pretty well outlined by Aristotle in the Nicomachean Ethics, in which he said to resist the temptation to do charity because it creates what we now call a 'dependancy syndrome'.

But we are where we are, and there are military strategic reasons for Israel. Haifa, Jaffa, & Elath are Jewish ports the US navy feels secure docking in. If it werent for the Arab oil, nobody would giva fuck.

FIRST Solve the Christian problem; when people wake up from that bullshit, then they'll see the Jewish problem for what it is. But til then, you are just pissing in the wind venting your rage at all the injustice. Now, that solution is unfolding, and doing it way below the radar because of all the young women who are becoming 'wiccan' and studying the "Craft". Whose generally agreed with premise, in accordance with Aristotle, is to "do no harm". Leave people the fuck alone. It is the duty or Christians to preach and tell others what to do. Witches dont work like that.

They, BTW, understand the misogyny of Islam, and how Israel is a tool the West uses to cope with it. The simplest thing we could do to eliminate the justification for Zionism would be to nuke Mecca. Do that, and everyone will wake up to the fact that Allah is bullshit, and then the women in the Islamic cultures will wake up to the abuse they have suffered, and take over the power structures.

But then, lacking an enemy, Zionism will collapse. in the same manner, the CIA helped pull off 911 to create a viable perceived enemy in Ben Ladin. And of course, they likewise never wanted to actually catch him in Afghanistan. No warrior class can remain in power without credible enemies.

[Alex Jacob]

My, you two have been busy!

I didn't know we were that bad. I think I'm gonna cancel my subscription to Heeb! I'm going to pawn my menorah and my kippa too!

(It is important that you know, landsman (a joke you won't get) that I was writing in a pardodic style when I referred to (Nietzschean) slaves and the 'drooling masses'. The cynicism that is expressed in the use of those terms is not necessarily my cynicism toward people, though I am personally a snob of sorts. There is a brand of anti-semite who is quite undereducated, but there is also a sophisticated variety. Anyway, the disease is universal.)
___________________________________________________

There are certain things about this 9/11 event that don't make sense to me. There is a part of me that, oddly enough, wants to believe that it has come about through a grand conspiracy. If this were so, in some ways, it would fit into a general idea I have about the world. I can feel, if you will, a certain 'pull' to go along with a sort of group think that one can easily witness (feel) among the conspiracy sorts. On one hand it is fear and a sense of being out of control, and on the other it expresses a deep and extremely psychological ressentiment.

If this is indeed a conspiracy of the order that is being described (invented) by the conspiracy buffs, it involves so many entities and agencies, that in itself is extraordinary. I found a list on another forum that listed all the entities that would have to be involved in this. If that is so, and if it happened, it will not be possible to cover it over. That is the reason that I share Chomsky's opinion: it is just too vast an event to orchestrate. But if it did happen this way, it will only be a matter of time, and the whole thing will explode (escuse the bad pun).

Though I can't definitively say, and though there are some anomalies, what I note in the believers, here andon other lists, is a similar feature: a lack of concrete knowledge about the world. An inclination toward superstition. All sorts of attendent and auxillary beliefs, like this insane judenhass. It is a sort of system of belief that, like David Eck, could very easily involve the theory that there are alien-reptiles here among us, directing the world, and having directed history.

What I come back to is my previous Jungian 'training'. There is a sort of mood of mass hysteria going on. It seems to be, or has the features of, a massive psychological projection of repressed shadow material. It is contagious, that is very important to point out. Once one slips into the contagion, you could almost begin to believe anything. It reminds me of a Spielberg movie, where you are progressively set up, and then the unlikely scenes begin, and once you have crossed a certain barrier (always with a stirring emotional impetus), you come to a point of no return, and then you are engaged, you are a believer, you accept any outcome...(And all of the above could function even if there were some level of complicity by authorities. The psychology is functioning and will function independently of those facts).

No one here who writes on these themes has even acknowledged any of the above.

[hsandman]

Jacob, just to clarify few things. Chomsky,Moore and David Icke are dis-informants. ~ 10% of what they say is pure balonium. They are setting up strawman theories, to discredit the whole movement. Stop mentioning them, please.

ps. Landsman.. very clever, Dr. Alex. =)

[Alex Jacob]

Chomsky, Moore, Icke are as different as a starfish, a walaby and geyser. I don't see how you could mention them in the same sentence.

What is the movement to which you refer? What are its goals? An example or two of a strawman theory on Chomsky's part, please.

Also, you didn't acknowledge any psychological component.

[hsandman]

I myself like this guy. Alex Jones. What is your comment on this vid Alex?

Edit: Addendum, Watch this guy *gulp* as he realises his ass is grass. Alex Jones warns again.

Stop chewing your psychoanalitical bubble gum Jacob, and smell the thermite. This is for real.

[hsandman]

Chomsky, Moore, Icke are as different as a starfish, a walaby and geyser. I don't see how you could mention them in the same sentence.

What is the movement to which you refer? What are its goals? An example or two of a strawman theory on Chomsky's part, please.

Also, you didn't acknowledge any psychological component.

Chomsky is a coward, that goes around telling people to hush down, all while pretending to be seeker of truth. I know that you two, have lot in common. I don't know/or care to know, much more about him than that. There is no substance to either of you, besides elequance and cud chewing. Or should that be: Chewing cud with eloquance? You both do it very well.

[daybrown]

While certain organizations, Mossad, The CIA, the Bush Administration, etc, were necessary to pull 911 off, none of them were organizationally involved; 911 was not the result of any particular policy decision. What was necessary was that individuals and individual relationships moved among these identified organizations, and that most of the major participants were part of the same peer group, social status, alpha male mind frame, ie, a good old boy club.

It was modern telecommunications which permitted a plot of unprecidented scale to be worked out. It is modern communications which keeps the unofficial investigation going despite the blind eye of the official media and power structure, and it'll prolly be that network which will find some trace of the conspiracy sitting on a hard drive some place that will blow the whole thing wide open.

But in any case, keeping a lid on it after GW Bush leaves the Whitehouse is unlikely. There were powerful machiavellian reasons for the plot to evolve in the first place, and the global political situation may require the full attention of the nation, letting 911 wait til later. Global economic panic could do that, but it also could result in 911 being opened up to provide scapegoats, or things could get so disorganized that the immediate struggle for survival demands the full attention of every one of us.

That same global telecommunications system is exponentially increasing in complexity beyond the ability of any of us to predict where it is going, taking on a life of its own. But likewise, like a life form, becoming vulnerable to computer viruses or some other kind of cascading crash. Networks do that; always have, and not always in ways any of us understand. 30 years ago I remember a sci fi story about a modern military with weapons so advanced the soldiers couldnt figure out how to use them.

Whether the Torah, the Talmud, the Elders of Zion, the CIA intelligence & 911 commission reports, or the Bush PR, you can figure out the kind of mind behind the composition by paying attention to the questions asked and answered, as well as those that were never considered. Its that latter which shows you the neurotic limits of the mind frame of group think. With the possible exception of the Elders of Zion, none of these was the creation of a single genius; it is the single mindedness of the Elders of Zion which betrays it as a fraud. Even Epictetus, 2000 years ago, knew how Jews "inclined to two sides".

When governor Stevenson was told that he "had the thinking man's vote.", Adlai smiled and said, "Yes, but unfortunately, I need a majority." Well, if we didnt have a majority of thinking men back when Eisenhower got elected, and things have gone downhill ever since, what do we have now? And if we dont, then what diff does it make whether 911 is opened up or not?

[Alex Jacob]

Me and Chomsky have very little in common, in fact. Though he is Jewish if that is what you meant. (But he is anti-Zionist quite outspokenly). I am pretty sure that you have not read him if you would make those comments. It is ridiculous, hsandman, to say there is 'no substance' in Chomsky; he is almost pure substance. If you accept the validity of some or all of Chomsky's predicates, he has arguably done more to bring people into awareness and even action than almost anyone. He argues for intellectual engagement and rational understanding of power-systems. What you clamor for, Heaven only knows! My theory is that you are part of a destructive, undermining psychological 'movement', the end of which is hysterical and in a very real way impotent. Like Alex Jones, you can stir things up, you can excite people (irrationally), but to what end?

I was in NY working just a year or so before 9/11. One Sunday I was down in the banking district and the whole place was overrun with police and other agencies in chemical resistance suits carrying out an elaborate drill. It was a little eerie. A friend of mine who knows all sorts of different people told me once that some acquantance of his in the 'intelligence community' told me that the authorities have known for a long time that an attack was likely. What they didn't know was when and where. He told me this well before 9/11. So, Alex Jones is not at all a prophet for this event and others like it.

You see it as cud-chewing and psycho-babble, but what is more interesting in all of this, and will have a greater effect in the long run, is the psychological dimension in all this, and the factor of 'ressentiment'. You deny it, but I see a connection between movie culture and the way the public mind is taking hold of these narratives, the way the narratives from movie culture have taken hold in the imagination, and live there, and grow. I think you would do well to chew a little cud of media culture studies, young Jeddi.

Keep in mind that I have not denied complicity by our own government in these events, or foreknowledge. Also, I do not deny that the event has been used to go forward with militaristic undertakings and internal control. There is no doubt of this. I operate, perhaps, on a different plane from you and others like you because, at the very least, I am conscious of the psychlogical component. I don't think you can access a perspective from where you can observe any of this, you are deeply in the midst of it.
________________________________

This has more dramatic appeal.

[hsandman]

Good for you alex. What do you think of this alex?
Concentration camps. (7 min)
Alex Jones Martial Law 911 Rise of the Police state... (3hrs <- INSANE!)