Should the U.S. repeal the Electoral College (EC) ?

[sear]

Some assert* the original idea behind the Constitutionally enumerated Electoral College was, in centuries before electronic media, the EC provided motivation to Presidential candidates to campaign in States with smaller populations.

But at least that reason seems to have gone away.
If Presidential candidates campaigned 3 miles from my house, I'd be probably be more likely to watch it on TV than I would be to attend in person.

"It's not just whether your vote counts, but whether your vote counts equally. An electoral college vote in Wyoming was worth 71,000 voters. In Florida one electoral college vote was worth 238,000 voters. ... that not only violates one person, one vote; but also violates the principle of democracy ... " Lani Guinier

When I do the arithmetic here, a ballot cast in Wyoming is worth more than 3 times what a ballot cast by an ostensibly equal citizen in Florida.
Is that not a fundamental violation of equality under law?

There's not need to speculate about what might happen, if the one that loses the vote wins the election.
Just look at what has happened, as a result of Bush v. Gore.

The U.S. is bogged down in a bloody civil War in Iraq. We've lost ~3,800 military troops there so far, with tens of thousands injured.
The price of gasoline has ~doubled during this Bush administration.
And U.S. standing in the world has reached historic lows.

Are equality under law, and fundamental justice really that horrifying?

* Some, but not all. Those that wish to post other explanations are invited to do so.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

and Bush did not win the popular vote in either of the last 2 elections - yet he has been in office the last 2 terms.

How can the US repeal the Electoral College? What would be the procedure?

[brad walker]

@elizabeth:

Any change to the way in which America chooses its president will require a constitutional amendment.

Come on critics, can you really say that in 213 years of operation, the Elector College system has produced bad results? Have your fears ever come true? Only twice in its history have the electors stumbled and been unable to choose a president, thus throwing the decision into the House of Representatives. Who did the House decide on in those two cases? Thomas Jefferson and John Quincy Adams.

author, we have a giant pot of boiled crow for you!

[sear]

"How can the US repeal the Electoral College? What would be the procedure?" EI

I believe brad is correct EI.
Since the EC is specified in the U.S. Constitution (see Amendments #12, & #14), eliminating the EC would indeed require amending the Constitution.

But some say using popular vote nation wide isn't a good idea (it seems most of them benefit from the EC, multiplying their vote).

Hello brad.
Welcome to Genius Forums.
Visit often. Post a lot.

[Carl G]

I don't think the Electoral College issue matters one whit to the reality of how candidates are elected -- I mean selected -- for office. For one thing, the current U.S. system is one party masquerading as two. For another, the general public has little to do with who become the final two players in the November face-off; this is largely decided behind closed doors and then popularized by the corporate money/media machine. Finally, there is no reason not to believe that electronic voting machine tallies cannot easily be purposely skewed in enough of the close states to tip the whole show towards a predetermined outcome. The U.S. election process is a laugh, it's corrupt and a mockery of just and due process; for proof look no further than the moron who has occupied the White House for the past 7 years.

[Tomas]

.

Aw hell, another slow night...

-milk toast-
sear - Some assert* the original idea behind the Constitutionally enumerated Electoral College was, in centuries before electronic media, the EC provided motivation to Presidential candidates to campaign in States with smaller populations.

-tomas-
Thank goodness for Abe Lincoln, a puppet of the Boston Bank$ter$. Press a hat on his head and a stogie on his lips... and away we go!



-milk toast-
But at least that reason seems to have gone away.
If Presidential candidates campaigned 3 miles from my house, I'd be probably be more likely to watch it on TV than I would be to attend in person.

-tomas-
The bunch of them are CFR's anyway so who cares?



-the lobster-
"It's not just whether your vote counts, but whether your vote counts equally. An electoral college vote in Wyoming was worth 71,000 voters. In Florida one electoral college vote was worth 238,000 voters. ... that not only violates one person, one vote; but also violates the principle of democracy ... " Lani Guinier

-tomas-
Guess we'll just have to ship more Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, other assorted (displaced) Central American Indian riff-raff to Wyoming, the Dakotas, and Morman Utah. That'll even up Lani -the lobster- argument...



-milk toast-
When I do the arithmetic here, a ballot cast in Wyoming is worth more than 3 times what a ballot cast by an ostensibly equal citizen in Florida.
Is that not a fundamental violation of equality under law?

-tomas-
Try living in Wyoming for a while, then you'll understand why the disparity makes perfect sense.

As far as the essence of "fundamental equality" goes, the law is interpreted (by Supreme Court) as each generation passes, the Constitution (Bill of Rights) is subject to the changing social mores of THAT generation of tyrants and servants. In other words, consent of the governed.



-milk toast-
There's not need to speculate about what might happen, if the one that loses the vote wins the election.
Just look at what has happened, as a result of Bush v. Gore.

-tomas-
All that Albert Arnold Gore Jr. had to do was "win" his own home state of Tennessee...




-milk toast-
The U.S. is bogged down in a bloody civil War in Iraq. We've lost ~3,800 military troops there so far, with tens of thousands injured.

-tomas-
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-South Dakota) allowed the vote to move forward (while the Dems. had control of the Senate in 2002) knowing full well that Saddam was a mere military shell of his former self. Old Tom Daschle was an Air Force veteran himself... (I've met him many a time)



-milk toast-
The price of gasoline has ~doubled during this Bush administration.

-tomas-
This was going to occur whether Gore or Bush had been elected. Buchanan and Nader are more flunkys to shake things up but still, mere pawns on the World Chess Board.



-milk toast-
And U.S. standing in the world has reached historic lows.

-tomas-
You best do some traveling and ask the political bigwigs and their controllers, the financial elite. You'll receive a different answer from them. Prime Example? - try France on for a fit, that nut who has seized power is ready to go after Iran..



-milk toast-
Are equality under law, and fundamental justice really that horrifying?

-tomas-
Like i stated earlier... all Al Gore had to do was carry his home state of Tennessee. And/or contest the entire state vote of Florida. Bad lawyers equal bad results.



-milk toast-
* Some, but not all. Those that wish to post other explanations are invited to do so.

-tomas-
Give me some time to reflect on this first.


ps- Albert Arnold Gore is a 33rd Degree Free Mason






Later,

Tomas (the tank)
Prince of Jerusalem
16 Degree
Scottish Rite Free Mason





.

[sear]

Carl,
I agree, the U.S. political duopoly is quite a mire.
But I disagree with your "I don't think the Electoral College issue matters one whit to the reality of how candidates are elected --" perspective.
It's procedural.
Not only can it affect the outcome of the election, it has done so.
And if you think that's unimportant, then I deduce you haven't spent much time around corpses, or the bereaved. At issue here is over 3,800 American corpses.
You may suggest that's insignificant. I believe one life is significant.

However, I'm way with you on the electronic voting machines though. Without a reliable audit trail, each precinct that uses them might as well just flip a coin.

Tomas:
Your post doesn't make much sense to me.
For one thing, your salutations:

"-milk toast-, -tomas-, -the lobster-" Tomas

don't seem related to substance here; unless your intent is to flatter me with suggesting that your favorite breakfast is milk toast, so you precede quotations of me, like syrup on milk toast.

I'd like to address the substance of your post, but couldn't find enough to comment on.
Care to try again?