What do you make of crop circles?

[daybrown]

The trend line has been increasing complexity and sophistication in the math that would be required to describe the geometry.

Its not the kind of work a few boys in the pub with a few pints in them is capable of given a month, much less a single night.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

University professors and high-class artists have gotten in on the game?

[sear]

I've seen some dandy ones.
But the notion (not suggested here) that they're intergalactic graffiti or something is preposterous.
Doug & Dave have confessed. They've even explained their technique.

And I'm not aware of any plausible explanation why, if there was indeed intelligent E.T. involvement, that:

a) it would only have started in my lifetime; no known incident of it before.

b) why these E.T.'s so clever as to master interstellar space travel, would demonstrate themselves such poor artists to start with, and become so much better so quickly.

[Dan Rowden]

It's pretty obvious there's some kind of semi-cult built up around these things. It's a non issue for me.

[daybrown]

Well, since this 'semi-cult' has engineering nobody here understands, its an issue for those who wonder about it. The complexity, scale (one posted that was 800 ft across), precision, and number of example each of which is rendered without an obvious fuckup goes well beyond the level of human craftsmanship.

Nevertheless, I dont see that this proves its some kind of UFO or galactic force. It'd be nice if the entire canon were collected on line with the dates and locations so that their 'evolution' mite be examined. from what I've seen they are getting more complex, and sometimes use fractle math.

The sheer number of men that would be required to make one during the nite shows an inhuman ability to keep a secret. Somebody would be bragging about it. i find it just as plausible that the sheer number of energy patterns emitted from the earth from, among other things, global communications, that there's some kind of parabolic reflective phenomena focusing the energy without any kind of cosmic "intelligence" as we understand the term, behind it.

[Dan Rowden]

If the complexity and engineering of these things was really as "inhuman" as some people say, why is there not great interest being shown from the mainstream scientific community? Or is there? I mean, we're spending millions of dollars on the SETI program and yet right here on Terra Firma we have seeming (possible) "messages" and no-one in the science community takes it seriously?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

daybrown,

number of example each of which is rendered without an obvious fuckup goes well beyond the level of human craftsmanship.

I used to think the same thing about houses. How do they fit so many into one city? Wouldn't some houses leak out into the countryside? It goes beyond any level of human craftsmanship.

[Dan Rowden]

Obviously quite complex circles are known to be man-made: Wiki Article

[Dan Rowden]

Ok, after about 20 minutes of looking at crop circles I'm 100% convinced they're the work of a quasi-artistic cult-group. The circles on this page, for example, are clearly the work of persons:

Impressive, but not that impressive

[daybrown]

try the math. Dude with a board stomping wheat. Pushes over about 5 square foot of wheat with every stride, which he does 20 times/minute. 100 sq ft. 6000 sq/ft/hr. In the dark, for say 10hours. he covers 60,000 sq foot. some of these figures are hundreds of feet in diameter. One is 800 foot long. With several circles that are 150' in diameter. 4 such circles is over 60k sq ft. The 800 foot image had dozens of circles that incrementally increased in size and were placed along a curve like a fractle.

Now factor in the details. that the radii have to be caculated, and some regions have to left standing, and the whole thing becomes a superhuman effort. Men *fuckup*. Teams of men fuck up even more. If we saw some that were, there' d be an obvious clue to it being man made. We may yet. but so far, the images I've seen dont reveal any mistakes in the math.

You mite could do it with software directing a team with GPS, but GPS is not accurate enuf. The reliability of the product looks like software, ie automated process control, not gray matter, much less some boys from the pub with a few pints in them. There may be a human software programmer behind this, but if so, he's found a form of energy manipulation we do not know about. It aint boards. It aint footwork. track out the length needed to do this in a single nite, and realize that for miles of pushing grain over, *nobody ever* stumbles. If its a team, they never run into each other.

[Dan Rowden]

I'm not convinced of that line of argument. There are known hoaxes that have great detail. And it doesn't follow at all that they must be done at night. These are big farms with sparse local populations.

Two such hoaxes:

pic1
pic2

[ChochemV2]

The relatively isolated location in which most of them appear indicates, to me, that it is probably humans because I doubt very much that an alien culture would favor the English above all others and bless them with so many designs meant for communication. Also, as dumb as we are we have a better plan for contacting another species which we know nothing about that has nothing to do with creating designs in fields of tall plants. Using universal constants, mathematical formula, and various other tools which any quasi-intelligent civilization would have to know makes more sense than bending wheat in a field.

Also, learn to spell, I hate having to translate as I read.

[Imadrongo]

Conspiracy!!

[Carl G]

The crop circle phenomenon (like 'the terrorist strike' on 9/11) generally, and for Genius folk in this thread specifically, is a litmus test for intelligence. Most of you are failing it.

In most cases minds are closed because of predispositions that disallow sufficient self-education on the matter. Careful study with an open mind will reveal anomalies in the manner some configurations are formed, ones that preclude human involvement, at least of the physical kind. In other words, boards and strings do not fully explain it.

[sear]

"is a litmus test for intelligence. Most of you are failing it." Carl

Shall we suppose you always pass?
Thank goodness we feeble-minded and unwashed have a superlative intellect like yours, to remind us of our manifold deficiencies.

[Dan Rowden]

Carl, give me a link to an example.

[Carl G]

Sear, your pompousness precedes you.

[Carl G]

Dan, an example of what?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Carl, stop assuming that it would have to be done at night by men with boards and strings, and it stops being a problem. To come to a conclusion, ask yourself: if you wanted to make a crop circle, what materials would you need?

It requires about as much intelligence as any other form of tagging.

[Carl G]

Dan, here's a quick link to get you started. Or, simply Google and go.

[Carl G]

Trevor, I don't know what you're trying to say.

[Alex Jacob]

Are these crop circles the product of feminine or masculine minds, that's my quesion...

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Carl, I'm relating this phenomenon to the many amazing pieces of shock-art created throughout cities, least of which includes elaborate spray-painted logos.

I could also relate it to Ouiji boards, which anyone can use to trick all his gullible friends into thinking they are contacting invisible aliens.

Now, the assumptions have been made:
1) the farmer neither knows about nor complies with the artist before he begins to work, since farmers are so materialistic that they cannot sacrifice a single field for popularity
2) the piece of art is created over the course of a single night, since daylight makes it impossible to work
3) only the crudest tools can be used to create this art, since we live in the Stone Age
4) no human is capable of lying to another human being
5) humans are incapable of creating pieces of artwork of any scale larger than a sheet of paper
6) there does not exist volumes of easily-accessible information on art, engineering, and agriculture in every single library on the planet
7) no human being is gullible

The assumption of universal idiocy certainly does make the idea of human intervention in an art-form seem absurd.

[Carl G]

Carl, I'm relating this phenomenon to the many amazing pieces of shock-art created throughout cities, least of which includes elaborate spray-painted logos.

I could also relate it to Ouiji boards, which anyone can use to trick all his gullible friends into thinking they are contacting invisible aliens.

For heaven's sake, why?

Now, the assumptions have been made:

By whom?

1) the farmer neither knows about nor complies with the artist before he begins to work, since farmers are so materialistic that they cannot sacrifice a single field for popularity

In the case of a circle physically-formed by humans, the farmer may or may not know. In cases not falling in that category, the farmer probably wouldn't.

2) the piece of art is created over the course of a single night, since daylight makes it impossible to work

The circles are created during a single night, this is generally true.

3) only the crudest tools can be used to create this art, since we live in the Stone Age
4) no human is capable of lying to another human being
5) humans are incapable of creating pieces of artwork of any scale larger than a sheet of paper
6) there does not exist volumes of easily-accessible information on art, engineering, and agriculture in every single library on the planet
7) no human being is gullible

I agree, these obviously would be silly assumptions for any investigator to make. What is your point, though?

The assumption of universal idiocy certainly does make the idea of human intervention in an art-form seem absurd.

Again I wonder what you are trying to say. Who makes such an assumption? And who disputes the idea that some circles are human-made?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Carl,

who disputes the idea that some circles are human-made?

All circles are human made. There is no need for another explanation.