Thanks to those I visited in the US and Canada

[Unidian]

Alright then.

I agree that Kevin's pics were a little "dry." One reason might be that there were very few people in them. Landscape photos by professionals can be had anywhere. It's the people that make "tourist" photos stand out.

I was a bit surprised by Kevin's appearance, which is that of a distinctly older man. Also, neglecting to label both himself and Elizabeth did not make them any more difficult to spot.

[Alex Jacob]

Although I am shocked and even rather hurt that a known sage would have voyaged to America, for such outrightly egomaniacal reasons, as a photographer of at least some ability, I liked his touch in a number of the photos, and they are above-average I thought.

This for example shows someone working with the different movements of the rocks while maintaining a horizon which contains the elements below (he uses this composition often).

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 1752854210

I like the way these Japanese tourists are held over on one side, and that each of their faces are visible. The line of the fence holds them out of the scene, yet that line is repeated in the mountains in the distance. It's kind of an interesting shot I think. Most tourists would not photograph other tourists.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 2320895634

The different lines and shapes, and the balanced composition is really not so bad and, in fact, is atypical of tourist shots. There is the sense of a thoughtful composition and the tension in the waves 'speaks' to the frozen tension in the brown rocks.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 1947167442

This is even a little Japanese, and certainly he had to be thinking of the Japanese rock gardens all nicely rakes. There are distinct lines and areas in the water, the wet sand, the dry sand, and the rock in the foreground speaks to the small islnad in the back It is a pleasing composition in any case.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 4652654370

Even this photo is at least a little interesting, leading forward as the figures in the front walk toward the subject, toward the lighted part, on to the fountain and then to the judicial building. This Kevin-sage has a way of filling his shots nicely, and playing with the different motions and textures within the composition. I have seen far, FAR worse.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 1548820754

Oh come on now, Dan. He's got a rodeo cowboy horse ready to poop over the capital of Denver, and the cowboy celebrates as he does it. This shot has a wee bit of humor in it (and you guys lost your funny bone when you gave up pussy, IMO)

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 3541825858

Look at the strange composition and playing with the human figures in an architectural maze, it ain't bad...I like how the lights are lit and those spots shine.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 4642934146

Few tourists could take this shot. You have to 1) be enlightened, 2) have at least once tried LSD or mushrooms, or 3) have at least some background in art. Everyone in the photo is staring at death, and death is staring right at YOU. Some dipshit tourist wouldn't have picked up on this. The figure in front is a part of the exhibition, isn't it? Anyway, it looks stiff and mannequin-like.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 5923457394

This is a contemplative shot, but it also has alot of energy in it, in the reflections and the conflicting motions. It has both an objective and a subjective side, superficial but also 'profound'.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 5250492338

Finally, in this image we have a message from the future, that is what I am getting, this is actually an omen, a sign, a revelation: things are not going to go so well for the good ole US of A. Clouds and the upper regions are always about 'celestial forces', and here the celestial forces are taking stock of America, and they swirl about, anxiously, ominously. I won't tell you precisely what this means but it does not bode well. That I am sure of, that I am very sure of...

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksolway001/ ... 7879663570
_____________________________

Dan, you are too hard on your sage! Lighten up! Be open to the flow of cosmic energy effervescing through you and through all things! Master was teaching you and you completely missed it! A little critical self-analysis is in order...

;^)

[Unidian]

I wasn't saying the composition was bad, for the record. As observed above (possibly satirically), Kevin seems to be a pretty decent photographer. But even though some of the scenic shots are good, even better ones can be had just about anywhere. The images aren't as interesting as they could be because they don't chronicle the people involved.

[Dan Rowden]

Dan, you are too hard on your sage! Lighten up! Be open to the flow of cosmic energy effervescing through you and through all things! Master was teaching you and you completely missed it! A little critical self-analysis is in order...

Firstly, I don't have any sage or master, thank you very much. And I didn't say the pics were bad; they're mostly nice in a touristy way (the ones of Hawaii are quite interesting, really, geologically speaking.) I said they are a bit soulless. If you did a Google-Image search for those locations you would find thousands of tourist pics of the same quality.

[Philosophaster]

LOL Geniuses.

[Kevin Solway]

Posting the photos and words of thanks to the people you stayed with is in no way spritually inspiring.

I personally find it spiritually inspiring, so that's the yardstick I'm going by.

. . . basically just holiday snaps.

Yes, but they are my holiday snaps, and include snaps of some forum members. That makes them especially interesting in my view. :-)

I still particularly despise American religion, egotism, and materialism, but I am now able to see it as far more human than I was previously able to.

You went to India with much the same purpose. India didn't teach you anything?

I think that travel can teach you surpisingly much. Especially when you don't do it very often.

In fact, I recommend that if anyone has spent more than ten years in the one location, that they go somewhere quite different for a while.

It can help reveal flaws that you never knew existed.

I also find myself being a lot more sympathetic or understanding of the situation or the struggle Americans find themselves in. And I think I'm now more aware of the suffering of Americans, and know their pain.

Ok, who are you? And what have you done with Kevin Solway?

I've only changed a little along the path I was already on. I was never happy with my attitude towards Americans, as I knew that my attitude had an emotional element, and hence was flawed. Now I'm more happy with my attitude towards Americans, since I believe it is more real.

. . . the blinkered, over-excited eagerness with which he planned the trip

I've been thinking of going to the US for many years, so when I was offered an airfare in return for some handyman work around the house, it didn't take me long to make up my mind.

his willingness to be Elizabeth's sex slave for a few weeks

You mean my willingness to do handyman work around the house? I think you'll find that I didn't provide Elizabeth with much in the way of sexual gratification - even mentally and emotionally.

the shallow, conventional views on American women which he uttered while over there

I'm not going to make-up something that isn't true.

the renewing of his on-going relationship with a middle-aged vacuous female called Irena

I talked to Irena, an old-time genius-l member, for about an hour, but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also, she is in fact a woman of some character - which is an exceptional thing.

the uninspired tourist photos

I thought they were inspired - and that's what really matters. I am drawn to the beauty of nature and the wonder of man's creations, and I think the photos reflect both those things.

the Oprah-like comments that he offered as justification for his trip at the beginning of this thread. I guess they're all on the same level.

The reasons for my trip are complex, but they're nothing all that unusual, and I'm not going to make anything up to make it sound more interesting.

Travel is both a holiday and a test at the same time. While there is nothing new under the sun, it is possible to deepen one's experience of things familiar.

[Unidian]

Philo said,

LOL Geniuses.

Hehe... I see you're as bored as I am tonight. :)

Kevin said,

Also, she is in fact a woman of some character - which is an exceptional thing.

Obviously, Kevin is still Kevin. That's a relief. :p

That said, if he had said "person of some character" rather than "woman of some character," I would have agreed with the statement.

[David Quinn]

Kevin wrote:

DQ: his willingness to be Elizabeth's sex slave for a few weeks

KS: You mean my willingness to do handyman work around the house? I think you'll find that I didn't provide Elizabeth with much in the way of sexual gratification - even mentally and emotionally.

You must have been aware of the karmic consequences of this, surely?

Everything is sexual with a woman. A man coming in, doing manual labour for her, fixing up her house, is a pure sexual act from her point of view. And an enlightened philosopher from the other side of the world no less. What a score!

I just hope that she didn't ogle your shirtless body sweating in the yard and giggle to her friends about how sexy you looked.

DQ: the shallow, conventional views on American women which he uttered while over there

KS: I'm not going to make-up something that isn't true.

Do you still think it's true that Christian American women are more oppressed than other American women, or Australian women? I was a bit baffled by that one. I was under the impression, and still am, that they all equally partake in the blisses of female heaven.

I talked to Irena, an old-time genius-l member, for about an hour, but I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also, she is in fact a woman of some character - which is an exceptional thing.

I remember Irena as being very incoherent and changeable in her writing. Often she would contradict herself at the end of paragraph what she had just said at the beginning of it. She was the epitome of flowy. Given this, I can't imagine having the desire or the need to maintain any sort of contact with her. But I guess that it was her "folkiness" which grabbed you.

In the end, it is the connection you have with certain kinds of middle-aged women - the ones who possess a kind of motherly, adult-like mentality - that I can't relate to. I look at them and think, "What is there?"

DQ: the uninspired tourist photos

KS: I thought they were inspired - and that's what really matters. I am drawn to the beauty of nature and the wonder of man's creations, and I think the photos reflect both those things.

It might be a matter of personal taste, then. Although I'm also drawn to those things, the idea of photographing them does nothing for me. I prefer to drink in the experience in all its fullness and glory. A photo just looks like a dull caricature to me.

Photos also help maintain the illusion that one thing is more visually pleasing than another. Instead of seeing that everything we experience in every moment is a glorious work of art, photos tend to make us more visually discriminatory and critical.

Travel is both a holiday and a test at the same time. While there is nothing new under the sun, it is possible to deepen one's experience of things familiar.

That's true. Again, it wasn't the holiday itself which I found distasteful, just the manner in which you got there. I found it disturbing that your eagerness to get over there seemed to override everything else.

But not to worry. I've said my piece.

-

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

his willingness to be Elizabeth's sex slave for a few weeks,

You must be joking. If anything, I thought that Kevin went to rather silly lengths to uphold his image as a monk-sage. Add to that the fact that I'm not even so sure that I'm physically capable of sex anymore, that in 2 weeks I turn 38 and Kevin considers 40 year old women to be over-the-hill, and that I am still rather heavy from intentionally gaining weight to keep men from looking at me (and if I had realized that Kevin was judgmental about women's weight, I would not have had the courage to ask him to come over), and keeping in mind that when I asked Kevin over, I only had the universal love for him, and did not even particularly like him on a personal level - although he turned out to be a really decent fellow. Part of the reason I trusted him enough to have him here was that I was quite sure that he would not hit on me.

If Dan's willing to be honest, perhaps he'll tell you about the near nervous breakdown he gave me the night before Kevin arrived convincing me that Kevin would expect a sexual sort of thing, and how shocked I was at even that idea. As a result, I was so scared of Kevin at first that the first couple of days I treated him like he was contaminated or something. Then after I warmed up to him, Kevin still maintained very distant boundaries with me. He was 50 times more involved with my dog than with me, and he didn't do anything inappropriate with her, either.

[Unidian]

Kevin considers 40 year old women to be over-the-hill

That's odd, given that Kevin's hair and beard are as white as a New England winter. If 40+ is "over the hill," Kevin must be climbing the other hill across the valley by now.

The rest of your statement was interesting. I personally find it believable - but only for you and Kevin. If it were almost anybody else, I'd have to call bullshit. But in your cases, it might very well be true.

Not that it should even be an issue, frankly. The overblown concern some people around here seem to have for what adults of opposite sexes do privately is just as bizarre as the equally overblown concern some other people (Christian fundies) have for what people of the same sex do privately.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

David, Dan, and Sue,

One more thing - I don't see how any of your "complaints" are anything other than gossip or childish "cooties" games. You claim to be sages, but you are not even acting like mature adults.

[Dan Rowden]

his willingness to be Elizabeth's sex slave for a few weeks,

You must be joking. If anything, I thought that Kevin went to rather silly lengths to uphold his image as a monk-sage. Add to that the fact that I'm not even so sure that I'm physically capable of sex anymore, that in 2 weeks I turn 38 and Kevin considers 40 year old women to be over-the-hill,[....]

Dave isn't talking about sex in this way. It's not about that sort of hanky panky! Petting a woman's puppy (glad you don't own a cat at this point, right?) is to engage in a form of sexual discourse with her.

He was 50 times more involved with my dog than with me,

Hanky panky x 50!

[Unidian]

Then any interaction with a woman is inherently sexual in nature?

Hmm. I guess that would make sense from you guys' perspective. To me, however, it looks like more broad-brush demonization. Avoid women altogether, because there's no way to interact with them on a personal level without engaging in "a form of sexual discourse."

I know I'm hardly one to talk, but seriously, you guys really need to think about therapy. Isn't all of this a bit much? And I don't mean in some heroic "next level" sense (so pipe down, Dave), but in the sense of "going way too far?"

[Dan Rowden]

David, Dan, and Sue,

One more thing - I don't see how any of your "complaints" are anything other than gossip or childish "cooties" games. You claim to be sages, but you are not even acting like mature adults.

You say this because you don't get it. Kevin does I'm sure, even if he disagrees with the opinions, which he clearly does. I happen to think the idea that you can learn something - at least philosophically - by traveling is rubbish of the first order.

[Dan Rowden]

Then any interaction with a woman is inherently sexual in nature?

No, not any and every; that would be going too far and kind of silly. It depends on whether the activity revolves around some identification on her part with her gender, or with Woman to put it in more general terms. i.e. "sexual" in this sense means of or relating to gender and all the dynamics therein.

Hmm. I guess that would make sense from you guys' perspective. To me, however, it looks like more broad-brush demonization. Avoid women altogether, because there's no way to interact with them on a personal level without engaging in "a form of sexual discourse."

No, it means being aware of behaviour that reinforces her connection to Woman. Obviously, from our point of view that's not a great thing to do. Freakin' hard to avoid but not a great thing.

I know I'm hardly one to talk, but seriously, you guys really need to think about therapy. Isn't all of this a bit much? And I don't mean in some heroic "next level" sense (so pipe down, Dave), but in the sense of "going way too far?"

It's not going too far at all, it's simply being consistent with the goals and philosophy. You talk like it's the equivalent of treating women badly or something; it isn't; it isn't even close to that. I'd consider the alternative to be treating women badly.

[Shardrol]

It was evening. Kevin had just returned from a long day of sightseeing. I couldn't help but notice there were tiny beads of sweat forming on his noble brow as he walked into the upstairs room.

"Would you like something to drink?" I asked in a sultry voice.

"How about a cup of tea?" Kevin replied.

"A cup of tea? In this heat?" The tension in the room was palpable but Kevin just smiled winsomely.

I turned to heat the water on the stove. The blue of the gas flame formed a compelling visual contrast to the red blush of my cheeks as I opened the tea jar & extracted a bag. I dropped the bag into the biggest cup I had. Somehow, instinctively, I sensed Kevin's unusual appetite.

I turned from the stove to observe Kevin. He'd wandered over to my desk where my cat Bodoni was lounging seductively - just as I would have myself if I'd only had the nerve. Kevin held his hand out to her. I felt a little thrill run up & down my spine, as if he were holding his hand out to me, offering himself & all that he was for my pleasure. My heart beat a little faster.

Kevin stroked Bodoni from head to tail. I shivered. Yes, I'm 58, I thought, but in the gaslight I could pass for 55. Hope sprang up. Could he ever love me, I wondered. But no, I was not worthy of him. I was too old & dried up.

But Bodoni is only 15! Perfect. I watched Kevin caress her & it felt like he was caressing me. The water boiled. I wiped the sweat from my fevered brow & poured it into the cup.

"Here's the tea," I said to Kevin, my voice clogged with passion. He tore himself away from Bodoni & sat at the table. Somewhere outside a lonesome dog howled.

[Matt Gregory]

Dan,

I happen to think the idea that you can learn something - at least philosophically - by traveling is rubbish of the first order.

I don't. You have to get to know yourself and what better way to do that than by placing yourself in different situations and watching yourself react to them? It can trigger a lot of different things in you.

[Matt Gregory]

Shardrol, stop! Just stop! Too steamy . . .

[Philosophaster]

This may be the best thread on Genius Forum.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

This reminds me of the story of the 2 Buddhist monks who came up to a river, and the older monk picked up a woman trying to get across the river, and set her down on the other side. Quite some time later the younger monk fussed at him, reminding the older monk that they were not supposed to touch women. The older monk replied "Are you still carrying that woman around? I set her down over an hour ago."

[Unidian]

It's not going too far at all, it's simply being consistent with the goals and philosophy. You talk like it's the equivalent of treating women badly or something; it isn't; it isn't even close to that. I'd consider the alternative to be treating women badly.

Then, since you affirm that any interaction with women is of the nature you suggest, it must follow that to have any interaction with women is to "treat them badly." No?

What sort of positive interactions, if any, can be had with women in your view?

[Dan Rowden]

Dan,

I happen to think the idea that you can learn something - at least philosophically - by traveling is rubbish of the first order.

I don't. You have to get to know yourself and what better way to do that than by placing yourself in different situations and watching yourself react to them? It can trigger a lot of different things in you.

Interesting point. I'll get back to you on the level of agreement I have with it.

[Matt Gregory]

What the story doesn't mention is that the older monk got a blowjob from the woman after he put her down . . .

[Dan Rowden]

Shardrol, stop! Just stop! Too steamy . . .

It's disturbing that Shardrol can write so well like that :)

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Then any interaction with a woman is inherently sexual in nature?

That does sound like what Dan's saying. Very interesting considering that he has had a female roommate for many years. Who knows what kind of "sexual" interactions he has had with her or with his other female friends who, as Dan claims, do not consider him a misogynist.