Thanks to those I visited in the US and Canada

[Dan Rowden]

That's the basic problem: they fundamentally don't give a shit. It's much the same here, really. e.g. our Prime Minister, like your President, is a war criminal. Do people really care or does their misplaced sense of patriotism outweigh their logic and morality?

One of the interesting things about Americans is how neurotic they are. I'm not sure what part of Trevor's analysis explains that.

[Leyla Shen]

We Americans suffer more than any other country!

All hail the state! An American singing the Jewish swan song. “We Americans” have the right to bear arms (even in other people‘s countries) and, therefore, the right to whine about how much more “we” suffer than any other country…

I could have sworn someone around here once made the argument that the right to bear arms mean that "we, the people" could topple our own oppressive governments when they infringed upon our freedoms. Or, are you saying that you suffer at the hands of someone else's government?

What is this serious argument that has been articulated 50bil times before to people who fundamentally don‘t give a shit, Mr America?

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Dan,

What's the alternative? Let them blame everyone else for their own mentality? People have to take stock of themselves at some point.

The American tendency to constantly praise America for nothing whatsoever (even American criticism is carefully measured to cause the audience to feel superior to themselves and their own attitudes) makes it very hard for anyone in that country to get an accurate survey of the real situation. Facts are deliberately withheld from the populace and replaced with lies. I can't imagine taking stock of myself without one shred of accurate information.

The Americans need to find a way to get vital information from their government. Since these movements became public domain, the use of underground methods (freemasonry, etc.) has stopped being an option. Big budget Hollywood movies like "National Treasure" make a mockery of all methods of genuine information-gathering.

If you can think of a way for an average citizen to acquire classified facts about his country (short of high treason), I'm sure you could gather a large audience. Until a solution to this precise problem is found, no American can be held accountable for his actions. His ignorance is not voluntary. It is forced upon him by highly skilled lawyers and politicians who all have strong ideological and financial reasons to use every means at their disposal (including superior intelligence) to spread misinformation.

One of the interesting things about Americans is how neurotic they are. I'm not sure what part of Trevor's analysis explains that.

Perhaps the part about the anti-racist sentiments and other "humanitarian" justifications that are used to promote censorship?

[Nick]

This whole 'people get what they deserve' mentality is born of arrogance and laziness. People are determined to be what they are, some being morally and intellectually weaker than others. I don't see how pouring scorn and disdain upon them is going to help. And to simply say they deserve it is meaningless - Does a dog deserve to get rabies? Does a caterpillar deserve to transform into a butterfly? Does a glacier deserve to melt? Etc, etc.

No wise man gets where he's at with the attitude "I am going to end up where ever I end up". Early development starts with an attitude of wanting to take full responsibility for everything that happens in your life and blaming nothing else. Grabbing life by the horns, so to speak. Learning the fact that everything is determined to do what it does occurs later on in one's development. Until then they have no right making such claims, they haven't gained enough respect for wisdom yet. Unfortunately most Americans never decide to take full responsibility for their thoughts and actions and look to point the finger at the government, the president, their fathers, terrorists or whatever else crosses their mind. So yes, Americans do need to be told they get what they deserve, in fact they need to get their faces rubbed in it. I'm to the point where I would actually vote George Bush in for a third term if he could just to put us out of our misery instead of watching this country slowly bleed to death. Fuck slitting our wrists, just cut our fucking heads off.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

(Actually, I do have a solution. Temporarily remove America's veto in the United Nations and force the country to open its doors to UN inspectors. Give complete transparency to these inspectors. Dismantle all American Weapons of Mass Destruction, and call upon all civilized nations to help America redraft their mishandled Constitution.

Only when America has total transparency to the UN will it regain its right to pass vetoes on UN legislation.)

[Cory Duchesne]

Dan,

Can you explain how you got from the first perception (which is my own more or less) to the second?

I read his response to you and found it reasonable enough. He had hatred and deemed what the best way to resolve it was.

Telling people they deserve it is entirely appropriate. What's the alternative? Let them blame everyone else for their own mentality?

If they bitterly blame others for their suffering, that's an error.
If they blame themselves, wallowing in self pity for what they've done - that is also an error.

No one is to blame, for each person is an expression of causes stretching back into an unfathomable, beginingless past.

[Cory Duchesne]

This whole 'people get what they deserve' mentality is born of arrogance and laziness. People are determined to be what they are, some being morally and intellectually weaker than others. I don't see how pouring scorn and disdain upon them is going to help. And to simply say they deserve it is meaningless - Does a dog deserve to get rabies? Does a caterpillar deserve to transform into a butterfly? Does a glacier deserve to melt? Etc, etc.

No wise man gets where he's at with the attitude "I am going to end up where ever I end up". Early development starts with an attitude of wanting to take full responsibility for everything that happens in your life and blaming nothing else.

It doesn't follow how 'taking full responsibility' implies we need to employ the concept of 'deserve'.

Learning the fact that everything is determined to do what it does occurs later on in one's development.

I think a significant part of America's problem is that they don't have a proper respect for determinism and limitations in general. They are plagued by magical thinking - the American dream. I always laugh at how terrified Americans and most Canadians are of considering free will illusionary. Their reply is usually: "but then we wouldn't have any responsibility!"

I'm starting to think that by realizing this, maybe they finally would.

[Matt Gregory]

Dan,

That's the basic problem: they fundamentally don't give a shit. It's much the same here, really. e.g. our Prime Minister, like your President, is a war criminal. Do people really care or does their misplaced sense of patriotism outweigh their logic and morality?

People definitely don't care, but I don't think patriotism is the problem here because people just aren't very patriotic around here. My perception is that the overriding philosophy of this country is industrialism. People want to go to their jobs and be rich. The patriotism is just a passive effect of that and isn't any kind of driving force. Hardly anybody is willing to be inconvenienced in any way for the sake of this country.

One of the interesting things about Americans is how neurotic they are. I'm not sure what part of Trevor's analysis explains that.

That's a pretty vague charge. Neurotic in what ways?

[Matt Gregory]

We Americans suffer more than any other country!

All hail the state! An American singing the Jewish swan song. “We Americans” have the right to bear arms (even in other people‘s countries) and, therefore, the right to whine about how much more “we” suffer than any other country…

It's not Jewish! The Jews got it from us! And don't try to tell me the Muslims didn't pick it up from us, too! They're always bragging about how their oven is bigger than our oven!

I could have sworn someone around here once made the argument that the right to bear arms mean that "we, the people" could topple our own oppressive governments when they infringed upon our freedoms. Or, are you saying that you suffer at the hands of someone else's government?

Is that your solution? Get a gun a start shooting people? Of course, you're not the one picking up the gun.

What is this serious argument that has been articulated 50bil times before to people who fundamentally don‘t give a shit, Mr America?

Read a book like A People's History of the United States if you really give a crap.

[Leyla Shen]

It's not Jewish! The Jews got it from us! And don't try to tell me the Muslims didn't pick it up from us, too! They're always bragging about how their oven is bigger than our oven!

Um, no. The Jews have been around longer than Americans and so has their whining! Though I think many of you are merely a mutation of Jews, any remainder definitely got it from them. Insofar as the Muslims go, they’re only just catching on and aren’t anywhere near as seasoned at it as you lot!

What is it with you Americans and your willingness to lie to defend the Jew? Astounding.

Is that your solution? Get a gun a start shooting people? Of course, you're not the one picking up the gun.

Hey, it’s your Constitution, your fellow American's argument and your whinge. Nothing to do with me outside of my observing its bullshit in you, "the American."

Read a book like A People's History of the United States if you really give a crap.

Why would I do that when there’s an American right in front of me who can’t even begin a conversation about his own identity and a supposed superior form of suffering that, like a bitch, he merely alluded to? Must you delve into the past to find it?

[Imadrongo]

Trevor,

NM: You seem to be implying that all this tyranny in the US is a bad thing. Do you feel like you are being repressed?

TS: Yes, Neil, and I live in Canada. My own government is incapable of acting against the wishes of the American government, which leads me to call Canada "the 52nd State". We are the diplomatic wing of America.

We live in the same city. :)

Why do you complain that our government can't act against the American government? Such politics are so petty. Our government is no better than theirs. And since I am not a moralist I don't believe they are doing anything wrong. I'd like to see the US destroyed or overtaken some day though.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Neil,

Why do you complain that our government can't act against the American government?

It means that Canada is not a sovereign nation, and thus Canadians have little to no say in the formation of their own laws. We depend on another country's elected officials to make our decisions for us. Consequently, the vote of a Canadian citizen means nothing. Consequently, Canada is not a democracy whatsoever. We are ruled by the monarch of our closest neighbour.

Our government is no better than theirs.

Our governing body caters to the needs of their ruler: our government is thus inferior to theirs.

And since I am not a moralist I don't believe they are doing anything wrong.

What would it take to drive the point home? Do you need the Americans to start driving tanks down Whyte Ave?

It is for political reasons that Americans don't make such obvious shows of superiority, but don't for a second imagine that our situation is better because they keep their military on their side of the border. They behave as though it is here.

I'd like to see the US destroyed or overtaken some day though.

This is the dream of every citizen of every conquered nation. They want to see their conquerors return to their own country.

America is not going to take its hand out of Canada so long as we are rich in natural resources. Presently, we are exploited more than Iraq will ever be. Albertans do not get rich off of oil: Texans do.

[Matt Gregory]

It's not Jewish! The Jews got it from us! And don't try to tell me the Muslims didn't pick it up from us, too! They're always bragging about how their oven is bigger than our oven!

Um, no. The Jews have been around longer than Americans and so has their whining! Though I think many of you are merely a mutation of Jews, any remainder definitely got it from them. Insofar as the Muslims go, they’re only just catching on and aren’t anywhere near as seasoned at it as you lot!

What is it with you Americans and your willingness to lie to defend the Jew? Astounding.

I was kidding, you ass! Are you totally fucking stupid?

Read a book like A People's History of the United States if you really give a crap.

Why would I do that when there’s an American right in front of me who can’t even begin a conversation about his own identity and a supposed superior form of suffering that, like a bitch, he merely alluded to? Must you delve into the past to find it?

Hey, I was just giving you a source of the "50 billion" times people have pointed out the injustices of the establishment and nobody gave a crap. You obviously missed that point like you miss most others because you're too busy kowtowing to the Muslim horde that you're part of. Wake up, you fucking religious wingnut!

[Imadrongo]

Trevor,

Consequently, Canada is not a democracy whatsoever.

Greater people don't like democracy, it puts them on the same level as inferior people.

What would it take to drive the point home? Do you need the Americans to start driving tanks down Whyte Ave?

Would I care? Not really. It would actually be a good experience, we are too comfortable here. I'm actually thinking about doing some military training.

This is the dream of every citizen of every conquered nation. They want to see their conquerors return to their own country.

Haha. I am not a conquered person that wants revenge. To me the US represents a herd of idiots trying to spread democracy and chase after "non-suffering".

[Dan Rowden]

I have just decided that if the latest version of Google Earth came with sound effects there'd be no reason to travel at all.

[Kevin Solway]

I have just decided that if the latest version of Google Earth came with sound effects there'd be no reason to travel at all.

It'll be a while before Google Earth can provide the "total immersion" effect.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

The Americans need to find a way to get vital information from their government.

Yes, and we also need to find a way to get vital information to our government. There's a news article called "What's that Costing You" and it showed dust-covered sanitation equipment that American tax dollars paid for to rebuild Iraq - never used because they can not afford the fuel to run it. The result was that the city is piling up with biohazardous waste while the sanitation equipment continues to sit there unused. The person who was supposed to give a report to Congress was told that they could not say anything about it because that city was one of their biggest success stories.

That's the mentality that is ruining our country.

[Dan Rowden]

I have just decided that if the latest version of Google Earth came with sound effects there'd be no reason to travel at all.

It'll be a while before Google Earth can provide the "total immersion" effect.

True enough, but what is that effect based on? Total immersion in what?

[Dan Rowden]

The Americans need to find a way to get vital information from their government.

Yes, and we also need to find a way to get vital information to our government. There's a news article called "What's that Costing You" and it showed dust-covered sanitation equipment that American tax dollars paid for to rebuild Iraq - never used because they can not afford the fuel to run it. The result was that the city is piling up with biohazardous waste while the sanitation equipment continues to sit there unused. The person who was supposed to give a report to Congress was told that they could not say anything about it because that city was one of their biggest success stories.

That's the mentality that is ruining our country.

I agree this sort of thing is terrible, but I wonder if it isn't a universal phenomenon. It most assuredly happens in Australia. Politics - and arguably society itself - is built on lies.

[Kevin Solway]

It'll be a while before Google Earth can provide the "total immersion" effect.

True enough, but what is that effect based on? Total immersion in what?

Total immersion in the culture and the environment.

[Dan Rowden]

Well, it's arguably good that Google Earth will never provide that!

[Katy]

Well, it's arguably good that Google Earth will never provide that!

I think there is a point to immersion, really. Though on the computer seems a bit off.


And Denver does suck.
I always wince when I can't fly into/out of Colorado Springs and have to use their airport...

[Diebert van Rhijn]

The best cure for the States is to become further marginalized. Or the spread of the realization how marginal they actually are becoming. From the perspective of hyper-politics, explosions and entertainment [sun-set] they might still be huge globally but when you zoom into the realities on the ground and in the marketplace their influence, importance and projected powers are becoming mostly virtual, depending on which economical religion one follows .

Actually the War on Terror is just about that: the terror of the realization the status of being great in power or suffering is a dream, kept alive for so long after a short moment in the limelight when she was younger. The USsr that wouldn't die.

This doesn't mean of course this war will not turn further into a war on reality to the extent of upsetting the whole planet to prevent having to admit I [US] had it wrong, really really wrong. But not that wrong by the way; it's not that unusual for our species. Join the club.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Neil,

Greater people don't like democracy, it puts them on the same level as inferior people.

In this case, however, you are one of the "inferior people". The greater people control you. And you are perfectly correct: they don't like democracy. They don't want you, one of the inferior people, to be given enough information or enough say to control even the tiniest facet of government. What would you do with the power? Certainly nothing wise!

Would I care? Not really. It would actually be a good experience, we are too comfortable here. I'm actually thinking about doing some military training.

The greater people don't fight in wars. They tell their inferiors to die for them, and these inferiors happily learn how to fight and die by joining the military in droves.

Your apathy toward American tanks is very telling. It is more evidence that the tanks are already here, and have been here for a long time. They have been here for so long that America doesn't even need to spend any money keeping them visible.

To me the US represents a herd of idiots trying to spread democracy and chase after "non-suffering".

If they were actually doing this, the US would be a great nation. Since they are not doing this, and are instead using their considerable resources to enslave other nations, everyone in the world hates America.

[Trevor Salyzyn]

Yes, and we also need to find a way to get vital information to our government. There's a news article called "What's that Costing You" and it showed dust-covered sanitation equipment that American tax dollars paid for to rebuild Iraq - never used because they can not afford the fuel to run it. The result was that the city is piling up with biohazardous waste while the sanitation equipment continues to sit there unused. The person who was supposed to give a report to Congress was told that they could not say anything about it because that city was one of their biggest success stories.

That's the mentality that is ruining our country.

That sounds like something straight out of Communist Russia. Ironic, isn't it?

I wonder: did Soviet Communism defeat American Democracy? Which side won the Cold War?