DHodges wrote:Your argument so far has run something like:
Guns are icky.
Guns are dangerous.
I don't like guns.
Therefore, guns should be banned.
Also, Americans are not wise.
I think I said something like:
Guns are irrelevant to this topic.
Guns are immaterial.
Gun ownership and usage aren't in themselves unwise, or motivated by fear and attachment.
You seem to feel that what you are saying is so obviously correct that you don't have to back it up with any sort of real data or logical argument. So your arguments have been unconvincing, and you don't seem to realize it.
The logical argument is simple.
The belief that only personal firearms deal properly with criminals is likely to result in a lessoned faith in reason, and in turn has effects on how one deals with purely intellectual conflicts.
I don't think you can conclude anything about national characteristics based such a small and obviously biased sample.
Well, based on your experiences, do you see masculine and feminine traits in people?
The connection to guns is even more tenuous. Are you saying my posts would be less wise if I owned a gun? Would they become even less wise if it was a handgun instead of a rifle? What about
bows and arrows? Would they make me just
slightly more foolish?
Well, if you recall, I did mention the likely psychological difference between stabbing and shooting, earlier.
It boils down to the opportunity for reflection and self-awareness (vs instinctive action, and anonymity).
What about martial arts in general? Would it be foolish to study a martial art, since you might hurt somebody? Does it matter if the martial art involves the potential use of deadly force, or teaches how to disarm someone with a gun?
There are far more opportunities for reflection and self-awareness in martial arts. One needs to have an excellent understanding of human anatomy and psychology (and how the two work together) to know the weak points of an attacker; a good understanding of physics (different types of force, levers);
and underlying everything else, an excellent understanding of Reality.
People lacking the latter tend to be confused, emotional, belligerent, pushy, argumentative, and so on. They warp reality to suit their measly attachments.
But given that understanding, they act calmly, reasonably, gently, and have no flare-ups.
The best martial arts sensei would be thousands of times better with this understanding. His teaching would be clear and to the point, with no superstitious attitude lingering around, whether that is a hate or a love of God.
Why is it that Australians are so terrified of guns that you need a permit to buy a paintball gun?
Beginners and the unconscious may not realise that paintball guns can inflict serious injury to the body.
Laws are for the lowest common denominator, and for the ignorant. To the unconscious, laws are very necessary, as they would be terrified without them.
Is it that Australians are not wise enough to responsibly handle guns? Is it possible that Americans actually view each other with more respect - that we expect each other of being capable of acting like adults?
Intelligent people realise that laws are for learners. They don't whinge about having to obey. They are like parents showing children how to use trainer wheels on a little bicycle --- and in their own lives, don't use trainer wheels.
Could it be that the current attitude in Australia is due to an irrational over-reaction to the Port Arthur massacre, or some similar event?
From memory, the Pt Arthur massacre was viewed in the context of a baby American gun culture. The same with the Strathfield Plaza massacre. There are now very few such things.
The ripples of the Holocaust will be felt for hundreds of years. Similarly, folks living on the Forestier peninsula are still traumatised by the massacre. They don't like to talk about it.
I think I was living a few suburbs from Strathfield (Sefton) at the time of the massacre, and the "blinds" were well and truly down.
This tells me that Americans, who have had far more massacres, are in a state of shock.
Is there any evidence that fear is a bigger factor in America than it is elsewhere? All there really seems to be is your assumption - your assertion - that there must be.
The only other factor besides fear of the Absolute, in terms of consciousness, is fear of delusion.
In general terms, no national culture is characterised by either, because 99.9999999999% of people aren't conscious enough for either.
So, what I've been getting at, is those little baby steps that might push people towards consciousness. For example, distinguishing between conscious steps (belief in the importance of reasoning, reflection, self-awareness, truthfulness) and unconscious steps (passivity, belligerence, love of materialism).
Every culture has both, some more of one than another.
In my view, gun ownership is a political issue - but it seems that this view is not shared in other countries.
I myself am a country governed by the policy that I should be conscious.
In the US, it is the recognised right and responsibility of the citizens to overthrow the government when it gets too coercive.
If I became a US citizen, I wouldn't recognise any rights. I don't care in whose jurisdiction I am. Reason is more important than blind obedience.
The "consent of the governed" means nothing without it - if the government holds all the guns, then true consent is impossible.
This is the same as Scott and Elizabeth's argument, that people can impose their will on you.
You're an odd bunch.
That is why gun ownership is considered a basic right, like freedom of speech. It's what makes us free men rather than serfs. It's the basis for the very possibility of a legitimate "social contract".
Even when you point a gun at someone's head, to force them to change their speech and actions, you can never force them towards or away from
true freedom.
Scooter and I go out for a walk every night - completely unarmed! It's pretty daring - you know, what with all the bullets flying around willy-nilly, we can barely see where we're going.
This is an interesting point. I go for nightly walks, dogless, in my neighbourhood, sometimes quite late, and see no one. I live in a city with the third highest crime rate in Australia. Yet my neighbourhood is quiet and well-behaved...... Who knows?
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