The Far Side of the World

[Shardrol]

I'm curious about why there are so many posters here from Australia, porportionally speaking. Is this forum somehow more well-known in Australia, or are you all acquaintances, or what? I'm just surprised that an internet forum would have noticeably more people from a particular part of the English-speaking world.
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[Dan Rowden]

Obviously Aussies are automatically more drawn to wisdom than most nationalities. Well, ok, that may not be the reason, but there's no need for that much laughter...

I guess it may have something to do with the fact that so-called QRS are Australian. I frankly don't know how many of us are here all told. Sue is an Aussie, Jimbo and Jason are, Laird is one, but has two heads so may count double, Rhett Hamilton (who has been quiet for a while) is, as is Kelly. There's probably some other strays I've forgotten about. That's certainly disproportionate poster-wise but maybe not in terms of the 500 membership.

[David Quinn]

Leyla is another one. It might be that other Australians are picking up on the Australian-ness of some of the senior posters here and feel more inclined to participate. Or it might be that Australia is a lot more atheistic and unburdened by culture than most other places, which causes Australians to have more affinity with a youthful, idealistic-driven, free-thinking site. Or it might be that Australians have a stronger sense of irony than most other peoples and can enjoy more deeply the irony of philosophic thought. Or it might be that Australia is a wealthy, secure place which causes Australians to be more bold in their thought without fearing the consequences. Or it might be just coincidence.

I'm surprised there are not more Canadians, English and Scandinavians here, for they are probably the closest to Australians in mindset.

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[Shardrol]

Interesting. I don't think I'm conversant enough with the cultural differences between Britain, Canada & Australia to make accurate judgments. You (David) sound English to me, Dan sounds Australian & Kevin doesn't seem to project any particular rationality - I mean nationality . Sue & Jamesh sound British, Leyla sounds Australian & Kelly & Jason sound American to my reading ears. This may say more about me than about any of you. I spent several years living in England & Wales so I'm familiar with that culture, & its differences from the US. But I've never been to Australia or even most of Canada.

I'm also surprised there aren't more Scandinavians, particularly Finnish. I would have expected more Dutch as well, especially since nearly everyone there learns English from childhood. But it may just be that the internet is not as ubiquitous in other places & not everyone has access to a computer the way they do here in the US. I know that in England there is much less internet use than in the US. People still write paper letters, often.
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[Jamesh]

I think I found this site because of the search engine I used. I probably used Yahoo.au. I would have been searching for the word "genius" probably in relation to some comment made on the first forum I became a member of (and what fun that forum was in those days - but the war, emotional acclimatisation to forums, and the effect of this forum on me, has made that redundant. I was basically just a joker until 911 caused me to take an interest in world affairs and philosophy).

I tried it today and Genius News is the first (properly relevant) site that comes up, from which I would of link-chased to the forum.

My first post was an anti-forum rave. I was disgusted with what I'd come across, not having come across the dangerous thoughts one may read on the Genius forum(s). Then I began to learn and for the most part generally accepted what the QRS had to say - I may have stayed longer than most other nationalities do, because the hosts are Australian. Seems I'm back to rejecting them outright again nowadays - as to me they do not express things from a sufficiently "perspective-dualism" manner and thus do not speak the full truth.

I think the a combination of the reasons David listed are partly why there are more vocal Australians here. Canadians are similar - would like to see more of them here.

[Leyla Shen]

Straaaaaays? I’m a STRAY now, Dan?

Bollocks, bloody hell, cor blimey!

Thank you, David. Seems like it can be rather useful not to believe things exist since--despite the fact that I’m the one on this forum that’s most used the term “fairdinkum,” promoted Australian music and spoken of Melbourne, Queensland and Sydney on several occasions (to mention just a few Australian things)--you at least remember who I am.

You know, it was more than understandable when Dan denied my existence as part of a particular group of women trying to hit on him on this forum, but to deny me my existence as an Australian? Wow. He’s really trying to revel in my non-thingness, ain't he.

I might just have to hunt him down later this year--show him how real I can be.

Having said all that, Shardrol, I speak (in good part, relative to QSR) the Queen’s English. I say c-AH-stle, not c-ASS-tle; d-AH-nce, not d-aaaaa-nce; ch-AH-nce, not ch-aaaaaa-nce. Maybe we should all write in our accents: I say “choona fish”; you say “toona fish”. I say "yo-girt"; you say "yoh-girt". I say “toe-mah-toes”; you say “ti-may-ters,” et cetera, et cetera, et cetera [royal wave]…

Several years back now, someone (an American, I believe) on another forum I used to write to mentioned this site, thinking for some reason that I might like it. (Probably just wanted to get rid of me!) Marsha was a big attraction for me, but definitely David, as well. Course, Kevin kept me here, too, because I found him to be such an articulate, targeted thinker whilst, at the same time, being just as incensed by some of the things he thought as impressed by the way he thought them!

Dan doesn’t get a mention for obvious reasons.

[Leyla Shen]

Speaking of accents, my brother still says “gar-rij” and not “ga-rAHj” (garage). It just so happens that I say “ga-rAHj.” Course, I said his pronunciation was wrong, to which he replied, “Well, you don’t say ‘ki-bAHj’ (cabbage), do you?”

Then, so much more recently (like last week), I had this strange conversation with my sister who informed me that it is grammatically incorrect to say “an” historical since the rule is, apparently, “an” precedes words which begin with a vowel sound. Course, it’s been an habitual affair for me. I have used “an” in front of “historical,” for example, ever since I can remember--but not before “hotel.” Curious, I asked her why (she has completed a professional writers something-or-other qualification) and she told me [laughs] that it came about at a time when British-French ties were very strong. You see, apparently, the diplomatically adept French swiftly caught on to this idea that “an” is used before words that begin with a vowel sound and, since they don’t ever pronounce the “h” sound, every “h” word was promptly preceded with an “an”: an ‘otel, an ‘istoric. It’s not clear why the English then might've decided to copy the French!

Worst part is, no sooner had she explained than I burst into laughter, tears rolling down my face, and she couldn't understand why! Took me a whole hour to explain.

[Still laughing, actually!]

[Dan Rowden]

Straaaaaays? I’m a STRAY now, Dan?

Bollocks, bloody hell, cor blimey!

Well, yeah, I knew I was forgetting someone I shouldn't, but I couldn't bring to mind who. You'd have thought self-preservation would have kicked in given who it was I was forgetting.

For some reason I don't, in fact, automatically think of you as an Aussie. But since you didn't include "crikey" in the above list I feel somewhat vindicated. However, if you see fit to wish that my chickens turn to emus and kick my dunny down I'll understand.

[Leyla Shen]

I would have to say that that’s the nicest manner in which I’ve indirectly been called a henid so far. :)

Is it really up to me to distinguish myself in such a way that I do not become such a thing in another’s mind?

[Kelly Jones]

One of the character flaws of Australians - at least of the Australians who give into it - is the urge to be one of the blokes, a mate, a "come and have a beer" type. They don't like eccentrics that speak truthfully without a smile. Just as family values have destroyed Zen culture, so does blokey bonding destroy the sharp truthfulness of the just.


Therefore when the Tao is lost, there is goodness.

When goodness is lost, there is kindness.

When kindness is lost, there is justice.

When justice is lost, there is ritual.

Now ritual is the husk of faith and loyalty, the beginning of confusion.

Knowledge of the future is only a flowery trapping of Tao.

It is the beginning of folly.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Hehe - nice update on your location in your profile, Leyla. :)

[Dan Rowden]

One of the character flaws of Australians - at least of the Australians who give into it - is the urge to be one of the blokes, a mate, a "come and have a beer" type. They don't like eccentrics that speak truthfully without a smile. Just as family values have destroyed Zen culture, so does blokey bonding destroy the sharp truthfulness of the just.

This is true of any human culture. It's the power of the herd in action.

[Kelly Jones]

Kelly: One of the character flaws of Australians - at least of the Australians who give into it - is the urge to be one of the blokes, a mate, a "come and have a beer" type. They don't like eccentrics that speak truthfully without a smile. Just as family values have destroyed Zen culture, so does blokey bonding destroy the sharp truthfulness of the just.

Dan: This is true of any human culture. It's the power of the herd in action.

Yes. But the more laid-back and easy-going the culture - and Australians are known internationally for being rowdy drunkards - the more likely this expanding mental girth.

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[Jason]

Hey Shardrol, I joined Genius-L right at the beginning, back in mid '97(10 year anniversary of Genius is coming up in June) just like you did. Possibly because of how long ago it was, I cannot remember for certain how I got there. My fuzzy memory of those events makes me guess that I found Genius-L on a list of email lists and I joined it simply because it was described as a philosophy discussion list. I can't be sure though, there is a chance that I had visited Kevin's minefield site before that(did it exist in 97?) which would have probably tipped me off to the fact that it was of Australian origin. I didn't know any of the other Australian posters outside of the forum, and I still don't. I believe the reasons I stayed were nothing to do with Australians being on the list, I stayed because I liked the content, some of the posters, and the unmoderated free-for-all environment. Many of the other lists at that time were quite hung up on social niceties which I found distasteful and also problematic given the subject matter and my desire to ruthlessly bring down falsity and error whereever I found it.

As for my voice, why do you think I would sound American? You knew I was Australian right? What is it about my writing style? I reckon David and Dan sometimes use really old-fashioned Australian words that I wouldn't expect to hear around here from anyone under 65-75, and then only rarely, so it's kinda odd. Maybe it's just their Queensland background. My posts aren't generally accurate representations of the way I actually speak, I edit them and think far longer about word choice and sentence structure than I ever would when spontaneously speaking. I find it quite difficult sometimes to express myself, my thoughts, accurately and both in speech and writing, which is why I edit my posts quite a bit here, because I think it is important to be accurate when discussing philosophical thoughts. I'm pretty isolated from society, so I don't get much practice in expressing myself to the external world, especially with regards to my deeper thoughts and inner life, so that may partly explain the difficulties. But I tried to make this post more spontaneous, just for you. Am I Australian-sounding yet?

When I read posts here I don't think I associate a certain voice or accent etc with the poster. I believe I associate a belief system and ideas about their personality, based on what I have previoulsy read from them. Although it is possible that I do associate some sort of voice, maybe even a face, but that it is rather subconscious. It reminds me of when I have read a book, and then seen a movie adaption of the book, and I only realize that I had a certain idea of how that person would sound or look once I see the movie and realize it doesn't match the image/voice I had basically subconsciously had in my head all along.

One thing I have noticed is the large number of programmers who also subscribe to genius, of which I am one. I wonder how many Genius posters also read Slashdot?

[Kelly Jones]

I thought Jason was like some virtual person who appeared to live in a pseudo-Brit-American realm, actually, like Andrew Wiseman, or that spooky friend of Greg Shantz who's into sovereignty, or James Johnathan. WWW persons.

Interestingly, the more unconscious a person is, the more a fixed thing they are to me. They are more "flesh" and "3D" creatures. More embodied with habits. So that, more intellectual people are fluid, cosmic, like galactic citizens. No race, no home, no attachments, nothing.


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[Jason]

I thought Jason was like some virtual person who appeared to live in a pseudo-Brit-American realm, actually, like Andrew Wiseman, or that spooky friend of Greg Shantz who's into sovereignty, or James Johnathan. WWW persons.

Interestingly, the more unconscious a person is, the more a fixed thing they are to me. They are more "flesh" and "3D" creatures. More embodied with habits. So that, more intellectual people are fluid, cosmic, like galactic citizens. No race, no home, no attachments, nothing.


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So are you saying I'm an intellectual, fluid, cosmic, galactic citizen? If so thanks, I suppose that is a compliment. I didn't realize you thought of me so highly(or do you?). I don't know how accurate a picture of me that is though(I'd say I'm super-conscious(and self-conscious) but I have a lot of attachments, many of them fleshy.)) It actually made me shudder a bit really, because it made me think of how disembodied I really am, in a manner of speaking. I am probably so distant from everyday society and people and normality that I have almost totally forgotten just how far I have travelled on this philosophical journey.

I interact so little with everyday people that I've lost all sense of the chasm that probably exists. I sometimes believe I could just walk up to anyone off the street and start talking deepest philosophy and they would perfectly grasp what I was saying, be suitably effected by it, and then have something deeply meaningful and challenging to say back. That's probably a joke though.

What happened to Andrew? He is the only person I think I ever referred to Genius. The last thing I remember you saying about him was that he ran away from here, because he couldn't take the pressure of the forum, or something along those lines. I didn't know him all that well, but I was impressed with the little I did know, and he made some extremely good posts I thought - some of the best writing I have seen here.

Kelly, I might be virtual, this might all be a dream inside my head, but I can tell you that the center of existence, dream or otherwise, is currently Melbourne, so according to maps I have seen, Tasmania, and you, theoretically exist not too far South of here.

[Kelly Jones]

So are you saying I'm an intellectual, fluid, cosmic, galactic citizen?

I don't know. You are still a bit vague to me, not the homeless sort.

I sometimes believe I could just walk up to anyone off the street and start talking deepest philosophy and they would perfectly grasp what I was saying

It is a comforting dream for the ego, isn't it.

I've been trying to spend more time interacting with all sorts - of unphilosophical people, that is - as a meditation on patience. Remembering that wise people are as empty as fools.

What happened to Andrew? He is the only person I think I ever referred to Genius. The last thing I remember you saying about him was that he ran away from here, because he couldn't take the pressure of the forum, or something along those lines. I didn't know him all that well, but I was impressed with the little I did know, and he made some extremely good posts I thought - some of the best writing I have seen here.

I don't know that he was ever really interested in the aims of this forum. He was more into science.

Kelly, I might be virtual, this might all be a dream inside my head, but I can tell you that the center of existence, dream or otherwise, is currently Melbourne, so according to maps I have seen, Tasmania, and you, theoretically exist not too far South of here.

Looks like it.

Are you working ? Do you know anyone in your area interested in thinking ?

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[Shardrol]

Hey Shardrol, I joined Genius-L right at the beginning, back in mid '97 (10 year anniversary of Genius is coming up in June) just like you did. Possibly because of how long ago it was, I cannot remember for certain how I got there.

I found this place through a mysterious email from someone I didn't know inviting me to join. It might have been someone from one of the Buddhist lists that I read & marginally participated in at the time.

As for my voice, why do you think I would sound American? You knew I was Australian right? What is it about my writing style?

Yes I knew you were Australian, though I have a hard time believing it since I 'hear' your 'voice' as American. I guess what makes you sound American to me is that it would not feel unnatural to me to use your words, & this isn't the case for most of the Australians on this forum, whose style is more like what I would think of as British, though not quite so convoluted.

I reckon David and Dan sometimes use really old-fashioned Australian words that I wouldn't expect to hear around here from anyone under 65-75, and then only rarely, so it's kinda odd. Maybe it's just their Queensland background.

If they use old-fashioned Australian words [like boomerang? har har] that might explain why they sound more Australian than you or Kelly, who are considerably younger, right? Actually Dan & David & Leyla say things like 'mate', though David still somehow manages to come out sounding more British than what I think of as Australian.

To me the most interesting case is Kevin, who doesn't sound like any particular nationality. I would also say that he seems to have a particularly wide-ranging & fluid mind.

What's the significance of a Queensland background?

I find it quite difficult sometimes to express myself, my thoughts, accurately and both in speech and writing

That's surprising because to me you sound quite fluent.

I tried to make this post more spontaneous, just for you. Am I Australian-sounding yet?

No, but you're edging over into sounding more California than New York.

When I read posts here I don't think I associate a certain voice or accent etc with the poster.

I don't mean to but it happens. Also a visual impression. I remember years ago I once published my ideas of what various people on Genius looked like & several of them (notably David & Marsha) turned out to be quite accurate.

It reminds me of when I have read a book, and then seen a movie adaption of the book, and I only realize that I had a certain idea of how that person would sound or look once I see the movie and realize it doesn't match the image/voice I had basically subconsciously had in my head all along.

Yes, that happens to me all the time. The 10-hour-long Russian version of War & Peace that came out years ago was an exception to this: everyone looked very close to how I had imagined them, especially the main characters.

One thing I have noticed is the large number of programmers who also subscribe to genius, of which I am one. I wonder how many Genius posters also read Slashdot?

Programming seems to be a good way for intelligent logically-minded people to earn money, so I guess it's not surprising.
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[Jamesh]

To me the most interesting case is Kevin, who doesn't sound like any particular nationality. I would also say that he seems to have a particularly wide-ranging & fluid mind.

http://www.theabsolute.net/minefield/aboutme.html

"I was born in 1961 and brought-up on the small island of Guernsey, about 120km south of England, but within sight of France. Guernsey has a long and complex history. At least, it does compared to Australia where I now live. I am glad to say that the unappreciated and forgotten Guernsey culture made its mark on me before tourism and tax evasion overran the island completely".

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I view Kevin and David as limited by a form of philosophical fundamentalism in whcih they are no longer growing, while I see Dan as having the most fluid mind.

[Jason]

Kelly,

Jason: I sometimes believe I could just walk up to anyone off the street and start talking deepest philosophy and they would perfectly grasp what I was saying.

Kelly: It is a comforting dream for the ego, isn't it.

Yeah it could be nice to think that the average person is philosophically not all that ignorant, but I don't think that's the reason I sometimes entertain the idea. It's just that I'm really isolated, I very rarely discuss philosophy with anyone but genius forum posters, and I have been living this type of philosophy-oriented life for so long that I find it difficult to remember being any other way myself. It's not like I'm set on the idea, I've spent most of my life looking down at people for being irrational, unquestioning and idiotic. Of course, there can be emotional and self-esteem rewards from thinking you are philosophically(and otherwise) superior to the norm too, and I've certainly been there, still am.

Kelly: I've been trying to spend more time interacting with all sorts - of unphilosophical people, that is - as a meditation on patience. Remembering that wise people are as empty as fools.

Why do you want patience? I prefer the idea of railing against idiocy, patience is like a quality of the walking-dead. Give me Diogenese every time. Seems like you might be engaging in masochism to me. Are you sure that attaining patience is your real motivation? Truth be told I find you quite odd Kelly, for that and other reasons.

Jason: Kelly, I might be virtual, this might all be a dream inside my head, but I can tell you that the center of existence, dream or otherwise, is currently Melbourne, so according to maps I have seen, Tasmania, and you, theoretically exist not too far South of here.

Kelly: Looks like it.

Are you working ?

Well, I sometimes tell people I'm doing government-funded research and development. Heh. Which actually means I'm on welfare and using some of that money to help create my inventions.

Kelly: Do you know anyone in your area interested in thinking ?

Well Leyla's apparently hiding around near here somewhere, it'd be funny if she was my neighbour or something. I really don't know anyone, why? What do you have in mind?

[Kelly Jones]

Jason: It's just that I'm really isolated, I very rarely discuss philosophy with anyone but genius forum posters, and I have been living this type of philosophy-oriented life for so long that I find it difficult to remember being any other way myself.

Kelly: Do you know anyone in your area interested in thinking ?

Jason: Well Leyla's apparently hiding around near here somewhere, it'd be funny if she was my neighbour or something. I really don't know anyone, why? What do you have in mind?

If "isolation" makes you feel disembodied and detached from reality, it may ground you to get in touch with a few other thinkers.

I found it helpful to meet Kevin, for instance. I visit a few times a year, as it helps me to learn and deepen my experience of Truth - examining how other people express their understanding in their daily lives. Using one's voice a lot. Seeing how much demanding and challenging stimuli one can cope with.

I'm also heading up to visit the Brisbane folk in a little while, so that should provide some more interesting things to reflect on.

Kelly: I've been trying to spend more time interacting with all sorts - of unphilosophical people, that is - as a meditation on patience. Remembering that wise people are as empty as fools.

Jason: Why do you want patience? I prefer the idea of railing against idiocy, patience is like a quality of the walking-dead. Give me Diogenese every time. Seems like you might be engaging in masochism to me. Are you sure that attaining patience is your real motivation? Truth be told I find you quite odd Kelly, for that and other reasons.

Patience means staying grounded. Not running off impatiently in one's thoughts, away from emptiness, in the hope that there might be something new. It means, not denying that everything is empty, and that there's nothing to hold onto. Part of this process is abandoning all motivations.

Yes, I am masochistic to an extent, to be capable of inflicting the pain of non-attachment, while still attached. But the amount of pleasure - and therefore the pain - that I gain out of becoming awake is slowly lessening.

I am finding more and more that emotions are painful, with much trouble in "detoxing" to become human again. So now they don't seem so easy to engage in, and less able to get a foothold. Slow but steady.

Kelly: Are you working ?

Jason: Well, I sometimes tell people I'm doing government-funded research and development. Heh. Which actually means I'm on welfare and using some of that money to help create my inventions.

That reminds me of The WhyWork.org website.

What do you invent? Is this a way of earning more money?

Do you receive a disability pension ?



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[Jason]

Shardrol,

If they use old-fashioned Australian words [like boomerang? har har] that might explain why they sound more Australian than you or Kelly, who are considerably younger, right? Actually Dan & David & Leyla say things like 'mate', though David still somehow manages to come out sounding more British than what I think of as Australian.

Yeah could be a bit of an age thing, they're about twenty years older, and some people say Australia has become more American-ized over the years, and that Australian terms have been dying off. "Mate" isn't old-fashioned though. Have you listened to the podcasts of their voices?

What's the significance of a Queensland background?

I thought that there might be some small regional variations in word useage.

I don't mean to but it happens. Also a visual impression. I remember years ago I once published my ideas of what various people on Genius looked like & several of them (notably David & Marsha) turned out to be quite accurate.

Interesting, I don't remember that. Tell me what you think I look like. I don't think I could accurately guess the gender, nationality or age of most posters, based solely on their writing style.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

Tell me what you think I look like.

I'm not Shardrol, but this sounds like fun. I'll guess between 5'8" and 6'1" with greenish/light brown eyes and hair that some would consider brown while others would consider dark blond. Clean shaven, but gets scruffy. One broken/peeling fingernail on your right hand. Athletic build but not muscular. A little more of a tan than most Australians, but definately not "tanned" per se.

How'd I do?
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edit to add metric -height equivalent to 1.7 to 1.85 meters

[Shardrol]

Big, almost kind of bearish, but not hairy. Kind of long face. Dark hair, pale skin, grayish (?) eyes, small hands, big feet.

But I don't feel I'm anymore likely to be right than chance. At the time I published those descriptions on Genius-L I saw them whenever I read the people's words, so I had more confidence about it. I think it was one of those strange temporary psychic episodes like one time when I worked in an office & I suddenly felt like I knew what kind of dressing gown everyone had at home. A group crowded around me & I named about seven in a row correctly before things got too confusing & I no longer had a clear idea about it. Interesting but useless.

You may be right about younger Australians sounding more American because of global homogenization. Yes I did listen to the voices on the podcasts & it was a strange experience because they all had these Australian accents! Somehow I had never heard their words - even Dan's, who 'reads' more Australian than the other two - in those Crocodile Dundee (okay I'm exaggerating) accents.
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[Leyla Shen]

Jason:

Well Leyla's apparently hiding around near here somewhere, it'd be funny if she was my neighbour or something.

City of Brimbank (wild western suburbs--yeehaw).

Where are you?