A presidential candidate whos head isn't stuck up his ass

[Kelly Jones]

With Americans hated as they are and in constant anxiety about explosions and death eventually commonplace here, with fears of chemical and nuke poisioning appearing in the morning paper, why bother to care at all anymore, why bother, each is under pressure enough, we have nothing left to give our fellowman, we are rude to each other and extremely impatient, everywhere i go i feel and see it.

I think this is a good description of American character.

I'd explain it as a psychological illness based on Christian beliefs such as "all have sinned" and "Jesus receives all sinners". For, "inherently bad" people are always feeling like punishing themselves and others. Not all the "feel-good" talk-shows in the world would help.

Rather than helping homeless people, one should eradicate these beliefs.

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[sschaula]

Nat,

You don't seem to be getting it. As Nick said, thinking *is* an action. If you've got the time and inclination to go serve soup, there's nothing wrong with that. But a much better action involves thinking about the false ideas that cause poverty and homelessness. When one understands these, one will naturally influence others to understand them as well.

I understood it, but I simply disagree...entirely! Doing nothing is still doing nothing. Thinking isn't doing something, in this case.

Bob, out in the cold tonight, experiences nothing from your thinking. Neither does Jim. They both continue to shiver and starve.

You can have thought out the perfect solution to homelessness, and unless you spread that solution to the minds of those on the street, and young ones growing up to become homeless, there's no way your thinking is going to do anything useful.

Spreading your thoughts - talking to people about what you've thought about - is an action. Thinking isn't.

Once again, I never suggested working in a soup kitchen once a year.

[sschaula]

Kelly,

keenobserver wrote:
With Americans hated as they are and in constant anxiety about explosions and death eventually commonplace here, with fears of chemical and nuke poisioning appearing in the morning paper, why bother to care at all anymore, why bother, each is under pressure enough, we have nothing left to give our fellowman, we are rude to each other and extremely impatient, everywhere i go i feel and see it.


I think this is a good description of American character.

I'd explain it as a psychological illness based on Christian beliefs such as "all have sinned" and "Jesus receives all sinners". For, "inherently bad" people are always feeling like punishing themselves and others. Not all the "feel-good" talk-shows in the world would help.

Rather than helping homeless people, one should eradicate these beliefs.

I think you're both nuts. This is not how things are like at all!

[Kelly Jones]

I seem to recall you thought it was right and proper for everyone to carry a gun to defend themselves, Scott. What other countries have you visited outside America?

[keenobserver]

Kelly,

keenobserver wrote:
With Americans hated as they are and in constant anxiety about explosions and death eventually commonplace here, with fears of chemical and nuke poisioning appearing in the morning paper, why bother to care at all anymore, why bother, each is under pressure enough, we have nothing left to give our fellowman, we are rude to each other and extremely impatient, everywhere i go i feel and see it.


I think this is a good description of American character.

I'd explain it as a psychological illness based on Christian beliefs such as "all have sinned" and "Jesus receives all sinners". For, "inherently bad" people are always feeling like punishing themselves and others. Not all the "feel-good" talk-shows in the world would help.

Hi friend!
Im thinking there was a time when we were just as christian but much less evil, decades ago.
If I had more time.....

Rather than helping homeless people, one should eradicate these beliefs.

I think you're both nuts. This is not how things are like at all!

You're insulated, pal. Really.
Do you have a regular job?
Do you live somewhere else?
Was your tuesday last week much like the tuesday before?

I reckon you're caught in the WOF, (uh, that stands for Web of Femininity). If you're in the web, all the women in your life with the help of some of the men have got an invisible leash on you.
Tell us about your life, your days, how you pass them, then Ill explain more completely.

[sschaula]

You should quote things correctly.

[sschaula]

Kelly,

What is your point?

[Kelly Jones]

It's the same as keenobserver's, actually. That you are sheltered, or afraid to see suffering clearly.

It was interesting to see some of the "Beyond Belief" talks, particularly that one with the Muslim diplomate and religious moderate, Reza Aslan, the atheist Sam Harris, and the Jewish compere, whose name escapes me at present. They were discussing the situation between Iraq and America, or more accurately, whether religious beliefs or social conditions drive people to do crazy things.

The reason I mention this talk, is that Reza kept denying that Islamic religious beliefs, such as to destroy all infidels, was to blame for suicidal terrorism. He claimed that such craziness was a result of social conditions - poverty, warfare - and that Islamic people were just normal people and the Koran not influential in their general behaviours.

My point is, Reza was probably terrified of admitting that the Koran was bogus, because he'd have been swatted out of existence the moment he left the conference.

It was as if he lived in a society so volatile and crazed by fear, that the instant he said that this society was about to collapse into total chaotic insanity, it would do so. Like a mediator with a mad gunman, he kept saying, "No, it isn't this bad, we're normal, sane people" - "Put down the gun, you don't really want to shoot me...."

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[sschaula]

You both know nothing of me.

America truly isn't as bad as keenobserver is observing. Everywhere I go people are pretty nice. Except for places like high school, of course.

And if I'm trying to get pussy, I'll probably start to rant like keenobserver. That seems to be what his entire sob story revolves around. It's hilarious that he then tells me I'm caught up in some WOF (web of femininity).

He obviously still doesn't see that women are not things to be had.

Then, it's also hilarious that someone who isn't from America talks about what the people are like there. Even if you've visited you don't have much of a clue. This is still a melting pot, and not yet a united culture...so to say there's some American mindset or character is fucking ridiculous.

To still assume that Americans are as a majority, Christian, is laughable. In truth, I'd say not even half are, despite saying they are. 99% of Christians don't even live as Christians. Half of all professed Christians don't even go to church. So yeah, American = Christian is a ridiculous idea.

The threats of terrorists doesn't scare us as much as it does entertain us, on shows like 24. There is no widespread fear and alertness, as there should be. There's a widespread denial of the violence...people don't want to think about it.

So overall, I still think you're both nuts. I find this country to be great, and it pisses me off to see people trying to defame it. Many do, unconsciously. Insanely.

Funny...if any country has a chance to spread wisdom, it's the one that offers the most freedom. Shouldn't we protect that?

[DHodges]

To still assume that Americans are as a majority, Christian, is laughable. In truth, I'd say not even half are, despite saying they are. 99% of Christians don't even live as Christians. Half of all professed Christians don't even go to church.

There are a lot of Americans that are nominal Christians - they were brought up that way and have never really given it much thought. It doesn't have that much to do with day-to-day life, it's just part of an identity, like being a baseball fan. Still, it's something they'd rather not have challenged or have to think about; it's the official, dominant mythology, it's trotted out now and then when it's needed, for weddings, funerals and holidays.

But there is also a relatively small group of hardcore Fundamentalist True Believers. I don't see them being much different from Fundamentalist Muslims that end up as suicide bombers and whatnot. Different book, same crazy.

And there is a spectrum in between. When someone tells you they are a Christian, you never know exactly what they mean, and it can be hard to find out without insulting them ("Do you handle snakes?")

So yeah, American = Christian is a ridiculous idea.

It is - but a lot of people believe it anyway.

[sschaula]

I agree. The rest of the world seems to think that America is full of the die hard fanatical Christians. Or full of gun toting cowboys. Or full of rude assholes. I just don't see these things much at all, living here.

[Nick]

I agree. The rest of the world seems to think that America is full of the die hard fanatical Christians. Or full of gun toting cowboys. Or full of rude assholes. I just don't see these things much at all, living here.

That's because you, like me, live in the Midwest. Probably the most down to Earth area of the country. I've visited a few places outside of the Midwest and people are much more "out there". A few fundamentally true generalizations for areas outside of the midwest are: East coast assholes, west coast nut jobs, southern hicks, and those Bible Belt fundies.

It made me laugh at the end of Borat when I realized he didn't bother to venture into the midwest USA because there wouldn't be as much to make fun of compared to other areas of the country. Borat is truly the most honest documentary of modern America in recent times.

[sschaula]

Well, I've been San Antonio, Texas. I found it to be one of the greatest places. The girls there were exceptionally nice. Been to a few others places too, and didn't find them to be too unusual. Lived in New Jersey. Visited Wyoming. North Carolina.

I admit you may be right, though. I plan on taking a trip around the country soon...maybe I'll find these American stereotypes to be true.

[Kelly Jones]

Scott, I should have asked, what countries have you visited outside America, and how much have you actually travelled inside America? Do you live at home? How many homes have you had, living alone?

My experience comes from the internet, from visiting Italy, having left home early, from living in many different households and alone, and from having travelled around a few states in Australia by bicycle. I've also had lots of different jobs.

While I've never visited America, I've read and listened. I'm sure it's more hellish than I imagine. Australia's cities are smaller, given our population, but because our country is so large, we are far more open and eccentric. Than say, Londoners, or Singaporeans. Eccentric in a jovial way, like "Get off my property or I'll shoot, unless you have some interesting tales and can share a cuppa", rather than "Get off my property or I'll blast you with my home-made, super-turbo stun-gun".

Cycletouring is an interesting way to get experience of people, because there is some kind of social custom that anyone may approach a cycletourist and start up a conversation. It's quite wierd. Like some kind of Father Christmas - the postman on a bike, bringing gifts from afar.

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[keenobserver]

As far as i can tell most Americans are heartless beasts. Women especially will rush to the aide of some filthy dog or kitty but let someones son suffer and rot away without so much as leaving them 25 cents.

It's because of belief in libertarian free will. In the minds of most, a dog or cat as a "innocent" creature which has no role in its own fate. A human being, on the other hand, is a counter-causal agent who has choice and "personal responsibility," meaning that any fate which "could have been avoided" through actions (usually those conforming to the believer's own worldview) is "deserving."

As long as this belief persists, there is no reason to expect any significant change in society's attitude toward the unfortunate.

Here's one more case in American society where only women are entitled to both the privilige of pre-adulthood (a.w. pets) and rights of full adulthood.
Whereas with boys responsibility is assumed once rights are gained, no such thing occurs in practice for females.
Ive been paying attention in my area and i can honestly say regardless of what stats they like to post that, well over 90 percent of regular homeless are men, many african american.
So yes, men are deserving of their fate but rarely women.

Of course at bottom the problem is with each individuals mind, how wise they may or may not be, where responsibility lies.
Here I am examining specific ills of a particular culture or nation, not the race itself.
And a huge imbalance between the sexes exist. And this in the end becomes terrible news for all inhabitants, male or female, excepting to a large extent only the most successful. In a way it is one of the many incentives to greatness at work in our society, anything that produces a few champions and allows the rest to brag, feel proud and wave flags cannot be bad, is the thinking.
What happened?
To quickly sumarize - mens minds evolved to the point of self conviction for abuses of women, an attempt at correction was made, men were persuaded they were still beasts, women took advantage of the opportunity being still relatively retarded by comparison, it became fashionable to bash men and give special priviliges to women, more or less here we are now attempting to correct the overshoot, pretty much so this generation is a lost cause, we can only hope something will come along to expidite enlightenment, otherwise it may take centuries and wars to bring about balance.

[sschaula]

Kelly,

Scott, I should have asked, what countries have you visited outside America, and how much have you actually travelled inside America?

Just Canada so far. Iraq soon. I've travelled inside of America, and never noticed any major difference between areas. I really need to travel more though...maybe see all of the states.

Do you live at home?

As of Saturday, yes. Until next friday.

How many homes have you had, living alone?

4, if you don't count military training. 2, if you don't count dorm rooms and military training.

My experience comes from the internet, from visiting Italy, having left home early, from living in many different households and alone, and from having travelled around a few states in Australia by bicycle. I've also had lots of different jobs.

Sounds like a fun time.

While I've never visited America, I've read and listened. I'm sure it's more hellish than I imagine. Australia's cities are smaller, given our population, but because our country is so large, we are far more open and eccentric. Than say, Londoners, or Singaporeans. Eccentric in a jovial way, like "Get off my property or I'll shoot, unless you have some interesting tales and can share a cuppa", rather than "Get off my property or I'll blast you with my home-made, super-turbo stun-gun".

In the Northern states in America, I've noticed it takes a little while longer to get to know a person and make friends. Our hearts can seem to match the winter weather.

I encourage you to live here for a while and find out for yourself, rather than reading the pessimistic shit on the internet. Big cities are full of interesting people. Small towns are full of down to earth people.

Cycletouring is an interesting way to get experience of people, because there is some kind of social custom that anyone may approach a cycletourist and start up a conversation. It's quite wierd. Like some kind of Father Christmas - the postman on a bike, bringing gifts from afar.

Haha, yeah. It must be nice living in a place that has the smaller more easy going population.

[Kelly Jones]

Our hearts can seem to match the winter weather.

There's far more to American self-centredness than the weather.

People in arctic regions aren't automatically unco-operative and distrustful towards everyone else.

What's your aim in going to Iraq?

[DHodges]

That's because you, like me, live in the Midwest. Probably the most down to Earth area of the country. I've visited a few places outside of the Midwest and people are much more "out there". A few fundamentally true generalizations for areas outside of the midwest are: East coast assholes, west coast nut jobs, southern hicks, and those Bible Belt fundies.

I've lived in New York, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey, Ohio and Texas. I've been to California, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Kentucky, Virginia, South Carolina, Florida. I've been to Canada, Mexico and Australia.

I rode a motorcycle from Dallas, Texas up to New Jersey, and back down again. I should be riding from Philadelphia down to Florida in June.

One place I really did not like was Cinncinnati, OH; I got out of there as quick as I could, but it took two years. I do love Vermont and Pennsylvania - beautiful country.

I don't think those generalizations about people in different areas hold true that well these days- people move around a lot. You can find hicks and fundies anywhere. It's true that different areas have different styles - especially driving. People on the East Coast seem to drive very aggressively compared to the South and Midwest. Not everyone, but noticeably more so.

Then there are different accents. I got used to the Texas accent pretty quickly. I never did get used to it in Cinncinnati, though; everyone there sounds retarded to me.

An interesting thing about Australia was all the Asians speaking with an Australian accent (instead of just sounding Japanese or whatever).

In the Northern states in America, I've noticed it takes a little while longer to get to know a person and make friends. Our hearts can seem to match the winter weather.

In the South, it's maybe easier to strike up a conversation with someone and get to know them in a superficial way. I don't know if it's really easier to know them as a friend. And people in New York City are a lot friendlier than their reputation.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

In some areas, people move around a lot, but in other areas, they don't. In Florida, a good conversation starter can be "Where do you come from" because so few white people are actually from Florida. Maine, OTOH, is very closed. You have to be born and raised there to be accepted - even to the point that although my mother's family lives in Maine and I was born in the state, I was not raised in Maine so I was always an outsider even in my own family - and they explained that was the reason. (My mother was a bit extreme to take it to the point that she did not consider me her daughter, and my father said it was probably because I was not raised in Maine - but the general atmosphere of the culture was closed.) A family can live there for a couple of generations and still be considered the new people.

D - depending on how hot it is this June, be extra careful driving in Florida in the summer. My theory is that even with air conditioning in the cars, the heat in cars in the Florida summer bakes the sense out of the drivers.
.

[DHodges]

My theory is that even with air conditioning in the cars, the heat in cars in the Florida summer bakes the sense out of the drivers.

My theory is that there are a lot of old people driving in Florida that have poor eyesight and slow reflexes. If they weren't the majority of the population, there might be a chance of getting some of them off the road, by requiring a periodic eye test or something.

My granddad was still driving around the country when he had Alzheimers. Generally had no idea where the hell he was. Scary. He probably had his hearing aid turned off, too, because he had my grandmother (a.k.a. "The Wicked Witch of the East") with him. He'd just say smile and say "Yes dear" occasionally.

[sschaula]

Kelly,

There's far more to American self-centredness than the weather.

I really don't think so. I also don't find it to be self-centeredness. It only seems that way because people aren't as open.

People in arctic regions aren't automatically unco-operative and distrustful towards everyone else.

I think they are. Generally, around the world, that seems to be the case.

What's your aim in going to Iraq?

To get out of Iraq. :)

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

D-

East coast Florida is mostly elderly, but west coast Florida is not. Furthermore, that does not explain the exceptional level of stupidity of inordinately more drivers on exceptionally hot summer days. I mean left hand turn from the right hand lane in front of someone - perhaps in each direction - level of stupidity, regularly.
.

[Jamesh]

For Scott

The Chasers War on Everything
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/chaser/war/video/default.htm

The 3rd video - Iraq Poll