Why it is awkward to say "I love you"

Laird · Post by **Laird** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:02 am

It is sometimes awkward to say "I love you", because it is an appeal rather than a demonstration. It is base. It is the reference to the elephant in the room whose existence we are supposed to find more creative ways of expressing than proclamation and direct pointing (and here am I, pointing at elephants). Our evolution is in our ability to love one another: comfort, knowledge, entertainment, taste. How crass then to merely say that one is doing what one could actually be doing more purposefully.

On the other hand, there is value in simplicity. If one is acting lovingly then there is no shame in affirming that this is one's intention, even if it is tautological.

Balanced consideration in all things.

--
Anything can be proved to one who is willing to believe.

Trevor Salyzyn · Post by **Trevor Salyzyn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:54 am

I would say it's hard to say it because it's difficult to lie right to someone's face, especially when both parties know that you may as well "love" someone entirely different.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:09 am

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:I would say it's hard to say it because it's difficult to lie right to someone's face, especially when both parties know that you may as well "love" someone entirely different.

What do you mean by this? What is the "lie?"

David Quinn · Post by **David Quinn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:22 am

Perhaps it is because many people suspect deep down that such a proclamation is self-serving and manipulative. It is only those without a conscience who could possibly carry it off without any qualms.

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Elizabeth Isabelle · Post by **Elizabeth Isabelle** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:34 am

It seems to be an awkward phrase for even those who have never considered all of what love is, therefore I think there are other reasons for this to be a difficult phrase for the average person.

It could be an admission of a vulnerability, which is awkward. It is also an opening to that very vulnerability because if the other person does not return the sentiment, it can feel like a painful rejection.
.

Trevor Salyzyn · Post by **Trevor Salyzyn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:46 am

What do you mean by this? What is the "lie?"

The lie that you love the person, when in most cases you don't and they are simply convenient, one person in a long chain of relationships.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:49 am

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:The lie that you love the person, when in most cases you don't and they are simply convenient, one person in a long chain of relationships.

Love that ends cannot be love?

Trevor Salyzyn · Post by **Trevor Salyzyn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:57 am

Love of convenience is hardly love at all.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:59 am

What do you mean by "love of convenience?"

Trevor Salyzyn · Post by **Trevor Salyzyn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:05 am

The kind of love where you fall madly for the first person who goes out with you -- and then the second -- and then the third -- mostly because they're there and you're horny, and not because of any real qualities that they possess.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:15 am

Ah, infatuation and neediness.

I don't classify those things as "love."

Trevor Salyzyn · Post by **Trevor Salyzyn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:23 am

Well, I guess it would be hard for you to say "I love you" if you were simply infatuated.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:34 am

Saying "I love you" to Philo's avatar. Now, that would be awkward.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:34 am

Trevor Salyzyn wrote:Well, I guess it would be hard for you to say "I love you" if you were simply infatuated.

Yes, although for many it seems to be no problem at all.

Philosophaster · Post by **Philosophaster** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:35 am

Dan Rowden wrote:Saying "I love you" to Philo's avatar. Now, that would be awkward.

Haha. I aim to please.

Dan Rowden · Post by **Dan Rowden** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:37 am

Trevor,

I'm not sure why you think infatuation makes it hard for someone to say such a thing. I actually think it makes it easier. When real love is felt expressing it is very difficult as there's a great deal more to lose.

David Quinn · Post by **David Quinn** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:56 am

Elizabeth,

DQ: Perhaps it is because many people suspect deep down that such a proclamation is self-serving and manipulative. It is only those without a conscience who could possibly carry it off without any qualms.

E: It seems to be an awkward phrase for even those who have never considered all of what love is, therefore I think there are other reasons for this to be a difficult phrase for the average person.

A person doesn't have to fully know what loves is to suspect that the phrase, "I love you", is uttered with particular expectations in mind, making it self-serving and manipulative.

It could be an admission of a vulnerability, which is awkward. It is also an opening to that very vulnerability because if the other person does not return the sentiment, it can feel like a painful rejection.

Woody Allen calls that "passive-aggressive". Showing vulnerability places pressure on the other person to submit to that person's wishes. It is a subtle, underhanded form of aggression.

It is a bit like what happens when a man makes an elaborate scene when proposing to a woman in a public place - such a proposing to her on national TV. Suddenly, all these expectations are placed upon her and she is pressured into accepting his proposal. Saying "I love you" privately to a person is simply a smaller version of this. The principle is still the same.

If you truly loved someone, the last thing you would say to them is that you loved them. You wouldn't be able to bring yourself to be so cruel to them.

Even better, you would go away and never see them again. That would be the most loving thing you could do for them.

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Kevin Solway · Post by **Kevin Solway** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:36 am

Love is a kind of drug-effect or trickery produced by nature for the purpose of getting us to breed. It is designed to make us do things we wouldn't normally do if it were left only to our own reason.

Therefore nature produces this effect again and again.

It takes a very strong mind to fall in love only once, or not at all.

Some people experience love so intensely, and are so hurt by love that they can only do it two or three times in their whole life - then they are exhausted.

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:37 am

The 'I love you' phenomenon in a non-sexual context might be interesting.

When I was a child I can vaguely remember being very 'emotionally challenged' by the situation where my mother, after tucking me in, said to me 'I love you'.

It was very anxiety arousing. I would reply quitely and stiffly: "you too"

Maybe during a younger stage that I can't remember, like age 2-4, I said it effortlessly, happily and naturally - maybe because I had no way of knowing what it meant - but my earliest memory about love involved experiencing great distress about having to say 'I love you too' to my mother.

She would, in kind of a concerned voice, ask me why I didn't say the whole thing. Why just 'you too'. Why not, 'I love you too' ? I had no idea of course. So I said 'I don't know, and that I was sorry. I felt guilty about dissapointing her. And so, out of guilt, I went against my discomfort and forced myself into the habit of it and it eventually just became an automatic sort of exchange before bedtime. But also it was kind of a drug that I perhaps grew to be comforted by, attached to.

Perhaps what she did was, she manipulated me into feeling guilty about my natural growth toward a less emotional state, and so I fought against it, to appease us both. Her worries and anxiety became mine.

The word love tossed back and forth between two people over time combined with hugs and kisses is a cheap means of keeping the persons bound to eachother over time. And the bond is strong to the degree of their emotional hunger, their unconsciousness.

I think Love is such a powerful word because it suggests a return to the womb, a return to absolute unconsciousness, a time when there were no problems, no responsibility.

As we first start to become conscious, in my case when I was a boy, I think love, sexual or non-sexual, becomes distressing, anxiety arousing and embarassing because it is apprehended as some sort of threat to our strength, our character.

Otherwise, I'm at a loss to explain the distress I felt when my mother first tried to indoctrinate me into the 'I love you ritual' before bedtime.

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:09 pm

Perhaps my mother was instinctively preparing me for being able to express love easily - - in order to enhance my ability to attach myself to a mating partner when I came of age.

?

Dan Rowden wrote:
Cory wrote: I'm at a loss to explain the distress I felt when my mother first tried to indoctrinate me into the 'I love you ritual' before bedtime
When real love is felt expressing it is very difficult as there's a great deal more to lose.

So are you implying that we are actualy protecting ourselves from consciousness when we get anxious and rigid about expressing our love? Your comment also implies that mothers, who deal out the 'I love yous' so readily, do so because they don't really love, at least not as much as the fathers. I think this comes down to women being less consciousnes, more comfortable and built to live in the world of emotions. Fathers I think are generally much more aversive about expressing their love, is this because they love more? Or is it because they are simply built to find it threatening to their ability to be independent?

Laird · Post by **Laird** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:17 pm

David Quinn wrote:A person doesn't have to fully know what loves is to suspect that the phrase, "I love you", is uttered with particular expectations in mind, making it self-serving and manipulative.

David, I believe that a person who uses the statement manipulatively lacks trust. S/he imposes an expectation that in return for explicitly loving, s/he must be explicitly loved back - s/he has forgotten that it feels good to give love as well as to receive it (which I understand, because I forget it too) and s/he fears that s/he lacks the power to love him/herself and so believes that it is a requirement from others.

Cory, perhaps your mother was one such person. Perhaps the distress you felt was that you recognised her position and wanted to explain it to her but as a child you felt that you did not have the authority to break the game.

I have come to understand love as an act, a sharing and an attitude, and that these things are not distinct. From attitude stems action and from reflection on the consequences of action stems new attitude and desire to share insight. If I hold the attitude that all of life deserves love then these are the questions that arise in my mind as to whether or not to say to someone "I love you": "are my actions reflective enough of my attitude to make the claim?" and "is there a more creative and appropriate way of expressing love in this moment?"

Elizabeth Isabelle wrote:It could be an admission of a vulnerability, which is awkward. It is also an opening to that very vulnerability because if the other person does not return the sentiment, it can feel like a painful rejection.

Elizabeth, I have been trying to implement the attitude that I described above, in order to overcome this feeling of being vulnerable: there is no need for the other person to return the sentiment, because giving love is a pleasure in itself. If that person does happen to return it, then joy abounds in the creative sharing of love's expression, but dropping expectations and believing that all is deserving of one's love regardless is probably the key to confidence.

Laird · Post by **Laird** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:24 pm

Kevin Solway wrote:Some people experience love so intensely, and are so hurt by love that they can only do it two or three times in their whole life - then they are exhausted.

Kev, I see you acting lovingly consistently.

Cory Duchesne · Post by **Cory Duchesne** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:54 pm

Cory, perhaps your mother was one such person. Perhaps the distress you felt was that you recognised her position and wanted to explain it to her but as a child you felt that you did not have the authority to break the game.

Nor did I have the understanding. I don't think I recognized a whole lot. Certain situations gave me negative feelings, being put on the spot to say 'I love you' to my mother was one of them. Not saying it was another. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Not like I was even conscious of that. I was just an animal trying to avoid pain. I was faced with two ways of escaping the pain, continue to avoid saying the L word - - or start saying it. The latter involved less consciousness and was the shortest route to appeasing my discomfort. I didnt weigh and consider the choices....I don't recall really thinking about it. I just did what felt less evil, as I think for most children, or maybe at least for boys, the mother is an image of goodness, whereas the father I think represents something more threatening and difficult to understand.

Kevin Solway · Post by **Kevin Solway** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Laird wrote:
Kevin Solway wrote:Some people experience love so intensely, and are so hurt by love that they can only do it two or three times in their whole life - then they are exhausted.
Kev, I see you acting lovingly consistently.

I understood that the kind of love we are talking about in this thread was the kind of love a man feels for an attractive young woman - which is a kind of love altogether different to other kinds, and usually has no spiritual element to it.

ChochemV2 · Post by **ChochemV2** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:09 pm

Cory, I had a similar situation with my mother growing up and, to some extent, I still can't quite get it out all the time and have to "cutesy" it.

I've never really felt it meant anything or, when I did want to say it, that it was adequate. With my family and friends I have trouble getting it out because I don't feel I should have to say it all the time and that they should just recognize I love them through my actions.

If it doesn't really mean anything then I have no trouble saying "I love you". I frequently go up to my dog and say "I love you!". Sure, I love the dog, but not to the same extent as the people I love.

My mother, more than anyone else, seems to expect me to say it constantly and I just don't want to have to recite this (nearly) meaningless saying over and over again especially when she absolutely positively knows I love her. Not that I ever refuse to say it because she is my Mom and if it makes her happy then I'll suck it up and deal.