Loner...

[Ignorant Carl G Arse]

What are the bennefits? Do people go crazy? Why?

Your smarter, teach me...

[Dan Rowden]

Could you possibly make an effort to put threads in appropriate forums? As to your question, what possible benefits can you see in being a loner? It's not about whose smarter. It's about how you see things.

[Ignorant Carl G Arse]

Exactly! It is about how I see things (for myself). The reason for my post is so I may try and understand your position on the question that I have asked?

"Why did I ask you ask well its quite a task with a mask I ask"

[Dan Rowden]

I don't think "loners" are that way because of perceived benefits to them; they are that way by virtue of their natures, their personalities. Possibly people scare or bore them, or just shit them to tears. There are many possible answers and not of all them point to something worthwhile.

And btw, can I suggest that you make up your mind whether you're going to be MindExpansion or this new character. I don't have much tolerance for this sort of multiple-user role playing stuff. I also suggest you get some sleep if you haven't already done so.

[Ignorant Carl G Arse]

I was hoping you can go indepth? why do you chose to be a loner, maybe at times...I was referring to someone else, but since you've taken an interest...

Who is 'mind expansoin'?

and I have gotten sleep, I rather got up an hour ago.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Being a loner isnt a choice, it just happens to be the situation you find yourself in. After feeling quite alien to everyone around you, solitude is the obvious path.

[Ignorant Carl G Arse]

Yes...fine fine- I am Mindespanison. How did you guess

Maybe you should get us (me) both kicked off.

[Dan Rowden]

Yes...fine fine- I am Mindespanison. How did you guess

Maybe you should get us (me) both kicked off.

I have no desire at this point to kick anyone off. But role playing stuff is tedious. This is a serious board. As to how I knew - I'm an admin and I can check your IP address.

I'll address the actual theme of this thread a bit later.....but I'll just say this for now: a loner is often someone who simply doesn't share conventional social values or mindsets, therefore being with other people offers them no rewards.

[Katy]

OK Just for the record: Are ICGA and ME AND Carl G all the same person, or just ICGA and ME?


Anyway, yes, people go crazy from being completely isolated... experiments with prisoners in solitary confinement have shown 100% hallucination rates in some experiments. Then again, the same experiments showed that those hallucinations weren't always negative experiences. Plus... they were criminals - people who by definition aren't fitting in with society to begin with.

IIRC there were similar experiments done by nazis on otherwise sane people - but then the subjects are also not exactly starting out in a normal frame of mind.


Benefits of isolation doesn't really make sense as a question. If you desire those benefits, you'll already know what they are and how to get them.

I isolate myself to the degree that I do because I find society to be ridiculous and there are very few people who I have things in common with, in that I think the world has gone bonkers with all the sex and stupid drinking that I'm not interested in. [*which is not to call all drinking stupid but this beer funnel thing that is popular at this school... stupid*] I can find people who don't want premaritial sex, and do things sober at the church - but then I'm dealing with theists and they're silly...
I'd really prefer that there were a few people around I could communicate with in person... but there's not, so, oh well.

[Elizabeth Isabelle]

OK Just for the record: Are ICGA and ME AND Carl G all the same person, or just ICGA and ME?

I seriously doubt that ICGA is Carl G, and I don't think that it's okay to allow anyone to have a variant of a regular poster's name like that. I'm surprised that Dan didn't ban the account just on that. If ME wants to hang around and try to expand his mind, that's one thing - but IMO the troll account needs to go away.
.

[Katy]

I seriously doubt that ICGA is Carl G, and I don't think that it's okay to allow anyone to have a variant of a regular poster's name like that. I'm surprised that Dan didn't ban the account just on that. If ME wants to hang around and try to expand his mind, that's one thing - but IMO the troll account needs to go away.
.

Yeah - I didn't think that Carl G and ICGA sounded alike in any way... but I was likewise surprised that Dan didn't get rid of the account for the same reason, so I wondered.

[Shardrol]

Anyway, yes, people go crazy from being completely isolated...

Not always. Solitary retreat is part of some Buddhist practices. I know of an American woman who did a solitary retreat for 10 years, & I've met people who have also done retreats lasting several years where they had no contact with other people. None of them are remotely crazy.
.

[Katy]

Not always. Solitary retreat is part of some Buddhist practices. I know of an American woman who did a solitary retreat for 10 years, & I've met people who have also done retreats lasting several years where they had no contact with other people. None of them are remotely crazy.
.

I suspect it depends on one's definition of crazy. Also, I didn't word that correctly I think. People can go crazy from isolation. Hallucinations always occur, according to tests in prisons and nazis. However, hallucinations are not always a bad thing. Think about Jesus in the desert for 40 days alone who starts seeing the devil, or some african tribes where boys at puberty go out into the woods alone in order to become men - they report experiences that are likely hallucinations (if we assume them to not be religious) but these hallucinations aren't crazy.

[Jason]

I suspect it depends on one's definition of crazy. Also, I didn't word that correctly I think. People can go crazy from isolation. Hallucinations always occur, according to tests in prisons and nazis.

To me it seems like there could be a large difference in the outcome depending on whether it was forced isolation or freely chosen isolation. There may also be a different outcome between being isolated within a relatively small and limited area, both spatially and stimulation wise, and being isolated in an expansive sensually and mentally stimulating area like in the middle of a huge forest.

Where and how were the Nazi or prison tests conducted? Likely in small enclosed spaces with little stimulation, and using coercive measures too no doubt.

[grandnux]

What are the bennefits? Do people go crazy? Why?

Your smarter, teach me...

Extreme isolation can be a bad thing; however, my belief is that many people that are "perceived" as anti-social loners are simply introverts.
Introverts need to recharge themselves by being alone. Introverts don't hallucinate; however, they do a lot of personal reflection. It helps them better understand their life in a way that will enable them to determine what they need to do next.

In other words, they actually place value in "thinking about things in a thorough way." It is how they deal with whatever it is they are dealing with. It doesnt mean that they are crazy.

In fact, most geniuses are loners, which is, ironically, one of the most recognizable signs of their abilities. If they were social butterflies, then they wouldn't have time to embrace their own personal genius.

After all, being wicked smart is not an easy thing to pull off. It sometimes requires a lot of effort and focus.

Food for thought....

[MindExpansion]

"Being wicked smart is not an esy thing to pull off."

I like that:)

[Unidian]

I don't think "loners" are that way because of perceived benefits to them; they are that way by virtue of their natures, their personalities. Possibly people scare or bore them, or just shit them to tears.

This is largely true for me. On the surface, I am a loner because I developed a fear of other people due to peer abuse during childhood. On a deeper level, once I get past that one way or another, most people just "shit me to tears" with the things they believe and value. I'm rather unconventional psychologically. It's definitely a two-way street in my experience. A lot of people seem to dislike me right away for reasons I find hard to pinpoint, but I think I must "shit them to tears" with my personality and values as well.

Based on all of this, it seems very sensible to limit social contact in most situations. The popular idea that everybody has to be a "social butterfly" to be "healthy" is misguided, IMO.

[Gretchen]

Introverts need to recharge themselves by being alone.

Interesting observation GN, is this not the truth? I had to spend the last three days, mostly in a car, with a business partner traveling and working. He is the type who cannot be alone for one second. I am quite the opposite. I could barely breathe until I got home. Being around someone that much, especially that type of person can be very claustrophobic.

My husband is also a loner, and although we are both in the house at the same time, we are alone in the house at the same time. Loners married to social people doesn't seem to work out very well, I have noticed. One wonders if the attraction was there by the loner to be something he/she was not but wanted rather than understanding that it is ok to enjoy being alone. It seemed that the loner always wanted the social person to stay at home when it is not in his/her nature to do so. On the other hand, if the loner went out, he/she was jealous of the attention the other received and wished he/she were back at home alone because the truth of the matter was that he/she couldn't stand being social to begin with. Caused a good deal of conflict and divorces.

Why is there such a stigma attached with alone-ness, as if it were a disease or something bad? Coming to terms with being a loner, one can find many worthy pursuits to fill the time.

Katy:

I'd really prefer that there were a few people around I could communicate with in person... but there's not, so, oh well.

It's because those you'd prefer to be with are at home alone, so chances are it would be most difficult to find them. Odd sort of situation, isn't it? One wonders if you could corral all the loners together in a room, if they would wish they were still at home alone or if they would then become social butterflies for those commonalities shared?

[MindExpansion]

Would it be better if we cloned ourselves and had only our genetic equals to talk to?

What would the bennefits be and the possible downside?

What if you both made a plan and read conflicting material to make it interesting?

I like the world we live in...It's like saying life is to short...Although it's the longest thing we experience....

[Katy]

Well, identical twins show that genetic clones are not automatically the same, so I really don't see any point whatsoever.

[HUNTEDvsINVIS]

I think that is preserves some people from actually going insane in many cases. A lot of people who score disturbingly high marks in I.Q. tests usually can not handle social institutions like universities and they drop out and become things like the postman who delivers your post every morning when you are surfing the web and posting on the Genius Forums.[ the second cleverest man on earth according to MEGA test results has supplied me with this information via a magazine in case you wonder if HUNTED sucked it out of her thumb. I think Marilyn vos Savant still holds the number one title but I could be mistaken ].
They can not deal with emotions because they are simply too rational.

I agree with you, Katy, the world is extremely messed up and pathetic, and moa can understand why you isolate yourself. I often do the same. It gest really lonely, but I recognise that I might go insane if I spend too much time with the masses. I have friends at uni, but no one really close or really interesting. I used to have a best friend and we did everything together, we painted a table cloth together one night and promised to take it out one day and to have a fantastic lunch on it when we are old and worn out artists. Those were the good times. However, she became bitchy and jealous and whined about her weight and her low I.Q. 24/7 and I realised we were driving each other nuts. I miss her but I prefer to be alone than with people who are insecure. The more you try to comfort them and make them feel special the more suspicious they become! Unbelievable!

[Unidian]

I suspect Marilyn Vos Savant is a fraud. I base this on her written statements and answers in here weekly Parade column, which are breathtaking in their normalcy and ordinariness. A woman of her IQ should be barely able to function, in my view. She should be socially crippled by her enormous mental capacity, and certainly not the model of well-adjusted normalcy she appears to be. I knew a guy with a 180 IQ personally, and he behaved as if he was from another world, to everyone's ongoing concern and amusement. He could barely dress himself or tie his shoes without help, although he singlehandedly invented a new form of mathematics in high school.

If Marilyn Vos Savant is for real, I have no idea why she would behave as she does or be interested in the things she is interested in. Why would she want to spend her time at a job writing columns for mainstream rags when she has the kind of mind that could solve major intellectual problems as if they were child's play?

[Unidian]

Oops, double post. Please delete.

[Shardrol]

Unidian, I think that's a bit of a strange idea you have there, that people with high IQs 'should be barely able to function'. People who have high IQs are just people who did well on an IQ test. It mostly means they are good at a particular kind of logical problem-solving & pattern recognition. They don't necessarily have the slightest interest in solving intellectual problems any more significant than Sudoku & in fact they may not have any particular creative intelligence or insight at all. They may be conventional or not. They are just good at taking IQ tests.

I know several people who have very high (180+) IQs. The only thing I would say they all had in common is that they were good at mathematics & logic. However this doesn't mean they applied this logic to anything important, or even necessarily ever gave Big Ideas any thought. I think it's a talent, sort of like perfect pitch, which doesn't mean the person will be a good musician.
.

[Katy]

Why do people keep assuming IQ means anything at all? As a child, I was given a large number of different IQ tests. Some of them I came out in the 170-180 range, and others I came out in the 80-90 range (apparently I'm quite good at math and suck at visual manipulation. I could have told them that...)
My mother gives IQ tests professionally to determine which kids will be admitted to the gifted and talented program at her school, and she regularly gives kids a second or third test if they fail one because she knows that there's a good chance they'll pass one that focuses more on the skills they're good at (And yes, it is possible to pass or fail an IQ test when it's being used as an entrance test...)
Another kid I know had an IQ of 90 when they tested him so they just kept throwing tests at him 'till he got under 80 because the doctor wanted to diagnose mental retardation to get the kid into a special ed program at school.


So, point is, it's really just a pretty meaningless number which has somehow, and very unfortunately, gotten to be seen as a big deal. It's not.