The Hezbollah and Israel

[Ryan Rudolph]

Highlights from the recent events in Israel:

Israel has expanded its campaign launched after Hezbollah militants seized two Israeli soldiers and fired rockets into Israeli towns. More than 70 Lebanese have been indirectly killed by Israeli response to the Hezbollah.

Moreover on Saturday, several rockets hit the town of Tiberias in the deepest such attack inside Israeli territory.
On Saturday, Israeli warplanes also hit the southern suburbs, which are a Hezbollah stronghold and also hit the suspected home of Hezbollah leader.

The Leader of the Hezbollah responded afterwards by declaring a full scale war against Israel.

Thousands of foreigners have fled Beirut, leaving its economy in tatters. Lebanese Prime Minister is pleading with both parties for a ceasefire, but The Hezbollah terrorist group has complete control of the southern part of the country and the lebanese government is helpless.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said the offensive will continue until Hezbollah releases the two captured Israeli soldiers and stops firing rockets at Israel.

George Bush and other western leaders have been speaking with each other and Islam leaders in Saudi Arabi and Eygpt to discuss possible ways to disarm the Hezbollah.

These series of events is only causing further divisions between the west/Israel and Islam fundamentalists.

It is suspected that Syria and Iran are pouring large amounts of funds into the Hezbollah organization and all three groups are suspected of conspiring together to destroy Israel. These governments involvements in the terrorist organization are only increasing the tension between the west and Iran and Syria.

Meanwhile Iraq and Afghanistan are still in turmoil with insurgent attacks on western troops. The Iraqi government and military are not strong enough to defeat insurgents without American aid.

These events will only strengthen the American resolve to keep a strong military presence in the middle-east.

But by keeping an American presence in the middle-east, this only strengthens the hatred and resolve of Islam fundamentalists who continue to recruit new members.

[MKFaizi]

Sums thing up, CNN style.

Rather tempting to simply let the region go up in smoke. Let Israel fend for itself -- seems to be doing a decent job of it.

If Israel ventures into Syria, let it. No US interference.

Faizi

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Boo Faizi.

"Let Israel fend for themselves", too late for that sentiment. They are stuffed to the brim with aid and weapons (yearly a couple of billions by the US, including arms) and protected by US veto in the UN security council for decades. Have Washington on a leash, check out neoconservative tie-ins with the Likud office, and so on.

Just yesterday the US blocked a UN resolution against Israel again.

Israel is an artificial country, it doesn't exist like other nations do. What is a country that lets their people being blown up without much of a debate around the causes, but comes into action only when their soldiers are being captured (which for some reason is being called in the press 'kidnapped', how do you 'kidnap' a soldier on a battle field? Double speak which denies a reality of an unbalanced warfare).

Of course the moral of the troops is more important to defend than the moral of the people, which only fuels militarism.

Let them all fend for themselves, but please provide Lebanon and Syria with some more material to make it a real 'fending', instead of the plain slaughter and terror we're witnessing now. Perhaps the victims can buy a nuke on the cheap from North Korea.

The state of Israel was a big mistake. Defending mistakes creates a lot of insanity, suffering and resentment. Maybe after another Armegeddon the remaining Jews, Persians and Arabs can form, over time, something else. Without historical claims , prophecy and rhetoric this time please!

[sschaula]

This is such a sticky situation.

[MKFaizi]

Looks pretty bad. I have the television on -- CNN. Can't bear to turn up the volume. Just looks very, very bad.

The big fear is the possibility of spreading.

I don't care who chills out first. I just hope they chill.

Total insanity.

Faizi

[Ryan Rudolph]

Diebert wrote:

The state of Israel was a big mistake.

I agree, the only way to fix this problem is if the israelis abandon their country and give it back to the arabs.

I think the western countries should step forward and all take a percentage of the israelis into their countries as immigrants.

If the nutcases want their "holy land" back, give them what they want.

"Let the fools have their tartar sauce"
Mr Burns.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Yeah CP, that would be one 'solution', although rather unlikely. But there are also some factions within Israel that could stand up and take control over a state that has grown so militarist. All violence, suicide bombing and so on have causes that are not that difficult to discern. Solutions to this conflict are:

- Recognize Palestina with Hamas as democratic government. Let Hezbolla, just like Hamas continue to function as the mostly humanitarian and political organization which for 90% they are. They have the love and support of the people. Can't get around that!

- Stop denouncing terrorism as something that voids negotiations. War is terror too. What we currently call 'terrorism' is just war between two parties were one has grown so powerful that the only chance the opposition has (to exist even) is to use extreme tactics. But it's not more extreme than what was accepted in eg WW2.

Both options need a complete change of mind of the G8 countries though. Not likely. So what's left is what Scott just described as 'sticky situation'. Sticky, but of course not a surprise. Anyone who thought after the US dealing with Saddam that Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran wouldn't come into target within a few years hasn't understood geopolitics yet. One doesn't uproot Iraq without uprooting the rest as well. The leaders in Washington and Tel-Aviv were aware of this.

If this war isn't stopped half of the Middle-East will be turned soon into some demilitarized "Libanonian" zone, all to keep Israel (the geopolitical version of Ego) safe, and the new Jew (the Shi'a Muslim) in camps.

[Leyla Shen]

Diebert,

Anyone who thought after the US dealing with Saddam that Syria, Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran wouldn't come into target within a few years hasn't understood geopolitics yet.

Geopolitics is yet another idea that has fallen victim to the Nominalist plague we see so much of in recent times on this forum.

One attempt at literal hypnotism (therapy?) from this school of thought is: "it’s empty and meaningless that it’s empty and meaningless." --Courtesy of "frank"

Nominalism, being the doctrine (a universal/absolute) that holds that abstractions (universals/absolutes) do not exist and are mere names with no "corresponding objective thing" -- that is, they do not exist -- allows one to sit back and laugh at the world that -- despite the fact the world’s “names,” the world’s “good guys” blow up the world’s “terrorists” every day.

Hilarious.

Hugely egoistic; and the cause of quotation-mark disease.

I’m not sure how much more real things need to get before reason and wisdom -- much more than just names -- are understood and embraced for what they really are.

Still, Nominalism remains, apparently, a nice, tidy out for the idiot -- who does not exist, apart from being a noun, that is.

.

[DHodges]

If Israel ventures into Syria, let it. No US interference.

Seems to me unlikely that the US will do anything other than back up Israel, as it has done pretty consistently.

Which leaves us with the nasty possibility of the US backing up its one ally against Syria, Iran, et. al., while still being tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not that we should forget about North Korea...

Yeah, it's a nasty situation, all right.

But not to worry. I'm sure George "Bring It On!" Bush will handle it with the level of subtlety and tact for which he is so famous...

[Ryan Rudolph]

You know the terrorist and the aspiring sage fall in many of the same pitfalls:

1. Both delude themselves by working out a system in their heads to guarantee their personal immortality.

2. Both suffer from narcissism/hero complex.

3. Both try to use others to satisfy the demands of the hero complex.

4. Both digest the memes of other humans as a means to venerate and emulate their behavior.

5. Both invest pride into their values which ultimately divide them from their fellow man and lead to conflict.

There are many others, but that’s a start.

[frank]

Leyla:

In an empty and meaningless universe in which it is empty and meaningless that it is empty and meaningless...

...where Ego's are verbing...

or rather, Ego-ing...trying to survive by perpetuating it's own point of view....

....the Tao don't give one iota of concern..is in fact totally indifferent to...the 'fate' of Humankind...

...Tao, the long chain of causation, the ultimate reality, the interdependant arising of all things....proceeds whether Human continues or not....

It doesn't matter.

It's already perfect...nothin' to fix.

The Tao is perfectly enlightened...try to see it Her Way...

If I like the pretty blonde BUT she don't like me.
I have a problem.

If I like the pretty blonde AND she don't like me.
I don't have a problem.

The problem is always ME...or, MY viewpoint.

It's Hilarious.

Geddit?

hehe

frank

[MKFaizi]

Well, George Bush has not been in much of a bring it on mood lately. Could be that he has had too much brought -- or brung -- on.

I do hear hints of a ceasefire. Maybe. I mean, they have been going at it very hard for -- what -- an entire week.

Well, fuck it. I have decided to take a big hit of LSD. Been too goddamn long since I tripped my brains out. I figure I'm due. In fact, I goddamn RECKON I am going to take more than a few big hits. I am going to take a big 250. Then, next day, I am going to take another 250 mikes. Then, double it.

FOR FUN

I am pretty skinny now so I am going to buy some purple velvet pants and a white ruffled shirt and a pink velvet waistcoat. Then, I am going to steal my son's strat and play the motherfucker.

Then, I am going to take five hundred more mikes of LSD. Next day, double it.

Then, I am going to go on a maintenance dose of 50 a day. I figure I can function on that. I may start injecting my patients with it on the pretense of tetanus or Hep B or B12 -- I would not do that but might be a good idea.

I think the water should be spiked with LSD. Should have been done long ago. GIVE THE SHIT TO HEZBOLLA AND ISRAEL, TOO. FOR GODDAMN FUN.

YOU WANT A PAINTED ELEPHANT, YOU GOT ONE. YOU FUCKIN COWARDS; PUKE WIZZERS.

Faizi

[MKFaizi]

MEET YOU ON THE MOTHERFUCKIN DARK SIDE OF THE MOON!!
LIKE YOU COULD, COWARDS!

I used to be afraid of going insane. Not now. I want it. I welcome it. Been waitng too long. THE LUNATIC IS IN THE GRASS. PRAISE ALLAH!!

LIKE I COULD BE SANE AND ABIDE THIS WORLD OF CHILDREN KILLERS!!

THREE THOUSAND MIKES.

I CANNOT WAIT TO GODDAMN BLOW MY MIND.

FAIZI

[MKFaizi]

Frank wrote;

It's Hilarious.

No offense, of course, but you need about five hundred mics of pure LSD, old hag.

Then, take an enema and call me in the morning. You may not be aware of it but you are constipated with pomposity.

Either buy some county issued dog tags for yourself and a choke collar -- flea powder optional -- or get with the program.

Faizi

[MKFaizi]

Rick James wrote:

You know the terrorist and the aspiring sage fall in many of the same pitfalls:

Bullshit, motherfucker. Know what you need, Rick -- thought you were dead, man -- well, who cares? We all be up here on this astral plane of some sort -- some of us more astral than others -- two hundred fifty mics of you know what and I am pretty astral -- plan to get a hell of a lot more astral -- AND YOU?!

What are you doin these days, Rick? Still sniffin pussy glue for a high?

Who's asshole you be lickin to say that an aspiring sage and a terrorist fall into the same pits. Damn, baby -- here -- I got your back -- lick this blotter -- you need it man.

What you be sayin, bro' man, is George Bush and Tony Blair and Ossama are all aspirin sages cause they fall into the same hole.

I think you need some LSD.

You don't have a chemist, I reckon you can buy it on Ebay. If that don't work, I reckon a stick of dynamite up your ass might do the same thing. Jus long as you blow the bullshit out of the water.

Rick, you know I love ya -- Super Freak -- but you really need to get your nose out of the panties and take a realistic look. Sounds like you done had your nose up a few thousand panties at once.

DUDE, get some lysergic acid.

Astronomy Domine. Straight Up.

Faizi

[MKFaizi]

Rick,

A terrorist -- whether American or Islamic or other -- is someone who won't be entertained until the entire planet goes up in a mushroom cloud.

So, why not get ahead of the game by taking a couple thousand mics of good LSD?

Try some lime and limpid green.

Faizi

[frank]

Normally when I complain, it is to be right that "something is wrong".

It is never with the intention to access possibility. It is to make something or someone wrong.

Also, it is most often from the foundation that someone else - not I - is to blame, and that they will do something about it, once my complaint is heard.

This is George Bernard Shaw:

This is the true joy of life: being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one and being a force of nature instead of a feverish, selfish little clod of ailments and grievances, complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy.

I am struck by what a revolutionary notion it is to look for possibility in my complaints. If I shift "something is wrong" to "something is not working" (which is a new assessment for which I am willing to be responsible).

I can invent a new outcome for the situation, beyond merely stopping after complaining about it and waiting for someone else to take the blame or to do something about it.

I can say: "I notice that something is not working here. What possibility can I invent here, the outcome of which would transform this situation from non-workability to workability, from complaint to possibility?"

Again, this is George Bernard Shaw:

Life is no brief candle to me. It is a sort of splendid torch which I have got a hold of for the moment, and I want to make it burn as brightly as possible before handing it on to future generations.

frank

[MKFaizi]

Frank,

Also, it is most often from the foundation that someone else - not I - is to blame, and that they will do something about it, once my complaint is heard.

Yes, this is your constant bleeping. WElCOME TO THE MACHINE, CAREFUL WITH THAT AXE.

My advice is that you must stop sniffing up your own rectum and move on -- or if you must taste your own asshole, keep it to yourself. No one cares about your shit -- no matter how tasty you find it.

No one is going to do a fucking thing about your stinkin complaint.

Least of all George Bernard Shaw.

Take five hundred mics of LSD. Fuck Shaw and call me in the morning.

Faizi

[frank]

"Are you free from ALL your stories?"

"Yes. Except for the ones that I have yet to find out about."

"Have you ever experienced total storylessness?"

"Yes."

"I mean, do you know that the meaning you create in life is just the meaning that you create in life and nothing more?"

"Yes."

"Do you create the meaning while knowing the storylessness nature of existence?"

"Yes. Except when I don't. And as soon as I find out that I am not doing that, then I do it again."

"Do you know the storyless you?"

"Yes."

We make choices. We draw conclusions. We believe that what we know is right. We add meaning to Life. Then we assume that the meaning we add to Life is the meaning of Life.

But Life has no meaning. It just is. It doesn't mean anything.

There is nothing to get. It doesn't mean anything. It's empty and meaningless. And it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless. Making it mean something that it's empty and meaningless is more meaning making.

hehe

frank

[Leyla Shen]

Ha! I like this guy:

Excerpt: Who Hates Ya, Baby? The Baffling Patriotism of Daniel Pipes--Counterpunch

Michael Neumann

But it's different now, isn't it? It's not just that backing Israel damages US interests; it's that this is so obvious. You don't secure oil supplies by supporting the country which has no oil, but antagonizes your suppliers. You don't fight a formidable terrorist enemy by allying yourself with an essentially useless power, one which alienates the very states whose support would almost certainly turn the tide.

You can't even suppose an obsession with Islamic fundamentalism has blinded Pipes and company to America's real interests. He can't be all that obsessed, because he doesn't seem to mind that the US isn't helping out much against the Chechens. And even if you overlook direct harm to US policy objectives, the alliance with Israel still impedes the fight against Islamic fundamentalism. After all, by far the most murderous Islamic fundamentalists operate in Algeria, where over a hundred thousand people have died at their hands. But you don't hear America's so-called hawks calling for extensive military aid to that country--you'd think the Algerian government would be buried under a mountain of American arms by now. Pipes has plenty to say about how bad the Algerian fundamentalists are, but his recommendations concerning American support for the Algerian government are inexplicably tepid. This couldn't be because Algeria sides with the Palestinians, could it? These experts, they sure know how to send a message: "You may be fighting the same enemy as the US, but if you care about Palestine, you can just fuck off and die."

.

[MKFaizi]

Israeli ground troops are in Lebanon and Gaza.

I am of Jewish descent and a former Muslim. Regardless, I take no side in this crap. But there is something that seems very ominous about Israeli ground troops entering Lebanon and Gaza.

I listen to right wing talk radio shows in the car. Pretty sickening stuff. Totally pro-Israel while poking fun at the left wing press. What left wing press? Speaking of "Mohammads" living in the seventh century who beat their wives and children and chopping off clitorises.

I was Muslim for many years married to an old school Paki. He never once mentioned chopping off his daughter's clitoris. He never beat me. I did beat him once. He never struck his children. In fact, he was very indulgent of them and believed in indulging them. I never heard him speak of going to the heavenly virgins.

I don't know. Just gives me a bad feeling.

I realize that Israel is an isolated and threatened country -- armed to the teeth by the US.

My gut feeling is that they are wrong. I doubly get that sense when I hear Bush citing Syria. I mean, he is a proven liar. Plus, I do not trust a Texan talking with his mouth full of biscuit, addressing Tony Blair like Blair is his ranch hand -- even if he is his ranch hand.

I get the feeling we are asking for a Qaeda hit. But I do not think Al Qaeda exist much anymore. Might get hit by something else.

Can't put my finger on it but just bothers me thinking about Israelis moving on ground into Gaza and Lebanon simultaneously.

I am going to take some more LSD.

Faizi

[Ryan Rudolph]

Feefee wrote:

What are you doin these days, Rick? Still sniffin pussy glue for a high?

It’s a celebration bitches….

Feefee wrote:

I think you need some LSD.

I’m Rick James Bitch, Enjoy yourself…hhahahahha.

Fee wrote:

Rick, you know I love ya -- Super Freak -- but you really need to get your nose out of the panties and take a realistic look. Sounds like you done had your nose up a few thousand panties at once.

I’m the best looking mutherfucker there ever was, hold my Drink Bitch!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



Seriously:

FeeFee wrote:

A terrorist -- whether American or Islamic or other -- is someone who won't be entertained until the entire planet goes up in a mushroom cloud.

Our destiny maybe a nuclear fallout, but the planet will heal, it will be human beings that suffer.

I think the important thing to realize is that this dark stage of human evolution is inevitable and perhaps even necessary.

Given the circumstances, things cannot have unfolded any other way.

So easy on the LSD there FeeFee, I don’t want you breaking through to any higher planes of consciousness before me…

[Leyla Shen]

Marsha,

I am of Jewish descent…[snip]

I cannot read beyond this. I don’t get it at all. Hence, I have a barrage of questions.

It’s like me saying, “I’m of Muslim descent.” What does it mean? Am I related by blood to every other Muslim through religion? If I have a blood transfusion and the donor is a Buddhist, am I from that day on of Buddhist descent? When you became a Muslim, did you suddenly become of Muslim descent or were you an American Muslim, ex Jew? Were you ever really a practising Jew? Is a practising Jew one who lives in Israel? If a pregnant Christian woman travels to Israel and has her baby there, is that baby a Jew or an Israelite -- on what grounds (ha!) is there no difference? How, exactly, does one retain their Jewishness?

Is today’s young American of Secular descent?

.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

Leyla,

The word 'Jew' forms, or used to form anyway, an ethnical or religious cultural demarcation. The root for this lies in the history of the Jews, which is not really history but a confusing mixture of history and myth (both at times borrowed from any host country they resided in) that has grown to hold some authoritative status for religious Jews (Judaism) as well as for many (fundamentalist) Christians. So for example the holocaust was aimed at the ethnic (genetic) manifestation of 'Jew' but one can also convert to Judaism and be considered Jew all the same. Culture, history, religion and state are still tied intimately together if it's about Judaism and the Jew. Quite rare, and one of the reasons for the uniqueness of the 'Jew', how they keep their identity alive in all circumstances, or as Nietzsche described: the Jews chose to be at any price, to survive, to live.

In some ways the Jew doesn't really exist, not being a clear ethnic group as the Arabs and Persians, and not a clear defined religious group like Islam. Kind of shifty. This is also a source for dispute; a Muslim cannot believe anything else than that the Jews are liars and twisted Gods word for self-serving purposes: an abomination with every word a Jews says about their faith, or Abraham or Moses. Perhaps a matter of a pot calling the kettle black?

Like the Jews, according to some gospels, hated Jesus for the claim he was a son of God (or one with God), the Muslims hate the Jews for claiming they are God's special people while they share much of the same scriptures and beliefs with them.

Israel as nation is also considered an inconsistent late-comer, with much disputed evidence of being a Jewish nation or religion apart from the 600 year period between 500BCE-100CE. Compared with Iran for example, or Syria or some Palestine tribes.

Maybe you could compare the word 'Jew' with how Christendom was equaled in the past centuries with the 'West', or its civilisation and the ethnic background of those involved. Before church and state were separated, somewhat.

[Diebert van Rhijn]

A relevant afterthought:

The word Semite, even if used for 'Jewish' these days, was originally referring to all speakers of the Semitic languages (including Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew and others), or also the ancient tribe the 'Hebrews'. Which cannot be considered Jew or Judean, though perhaps can be considered in some way the geographic origin of Israel or the 'Greater Israel' (including Lebanon and partly Syria). But Israel was formed out of only a couple of Hebrew tribes. Others might have been the Philistines, which emerge now, more or less, as Palestine tribes. Current Lebanon used to be populated by Phoenicians in ancient times, mostly Semitic people as well, and a quite advanced sea-faring civilisation once. A real melting pot.

In that article I linked to is stated

Although population genetics is still a young science, it seems to indicate that a significant proportion of Palestinians, Syrians and ethnic Jews' ancestry comes from a common Near Eastern population to which (despite the differences with the Biblical genealogy) the term Semitic has been applied.