You can only say this if you ignore the fundamentally fucked up nature of the establishment of israel in the first place, which neocons and the CJDD (chronic judeo deferential disorder)afflicted do regularly.cosmic_prostitute wrote:Leyla Shen wrote:
Yes, both parties are irrational Leyla, however if one had to measure irrationality, the fundamentalist Arabs actions are much more despicable.Fantastic. The hypocrisy is astounding. It’s a human thing only on the Israeli side, right?
Generally Israel doesn’t even want war, they want to be left alone. Their military is a much more defensive force than the Hezabollah.
Generally Israel only plans invasions and bombings after it has been attacked. The Hezabollah use their ideologies to fuel attacks.
Generally Jews just want to make money and be left alone, the a-typical behavior.
Generally the fundamentalist Arabs want to fight holy wars in the name of Allah.
The Arab fundamentalists are the aggressors here, you have the fucker and the fucked.
The one who is being fucked is responding choicelessly to the fucker.
So the truth is that the Arabs are the fuckers.
The Hezabollah have a long history of blowing up buildings in other counties in the name of their cause/ideology. The state of Israel only engages in attacks close to its borders as more of a self-protective response.
Both are irrational forces, but one is much more irrational than the other.
Generally, psychologically speaking the fundamentalist Arabs seem to be much more inferior emotionally compared to the general Jewish population.
This is pretty much an irrefutable fact.
The Hezbollah and Israel
-
millipodium
-
MKFaizi
Tharan wrote: quoted from FULL METAL JACKET:
Surely, you must realize the perversion of Gunner's reply. Things do get twisted like that. But I wonder and I am not fully aware of it -- just how many children actually killed US GIs in Vietnam? I have read several histories of that war but I do not recall specific accounts of children killing soldiers.
The account that Dan posted was heinous. A thirteen year old girl with a backpack. They even shot the backpack first and nothing exploded. They killed her anyway.
I was in the army during a relatively peaceful time. I did not have to go anywhere near combat. But there were a lot of crazy people in the army -- just "ate up." I also knew some of the most compassionate and loyal people in the army but there were plenty of crazies.
There was no excuse for that Israeli captain killing that little girl. That was an act of real hate.
Faizi
I have seen that movie a few times. Good anti-war movie.Joker: "How can you kill women and children?"
Gunner: "Easy. You just don't lead them so much."
Surely, you must realize the perversion of Gunner's reply. Things do get twisted like that. But I wonder and I am not fully aware of it -- just how many children actually killed US GIs in Vietnam? I have read several histories of that war but I do not recall specific accounts of children killing soldiers.
The account that Dan posted was heinous. A thirteen year old girl with a backpack. They even shot the backpack first and nothing exploded. They killed her anyway.
I was in the army during a relatively peaceful time. I did not have to go anywhere near combat. But there were a lot of crazy people in the army -- just "ate up." I also knew some of the most compassionate and loyal people in the army but there were plenty of crazies.
There was no excuse for that Israeli captain killing that little girl. That was an act of real hate.
Faizi
-
Leyla Shen
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA
Jew boy wrote:
What, by the way, is a “pretty much irrefutable fact†exactly?
.
Rubbish. The primary act of aggression, which based on your own position necessarily becomes the only irrefutable fact with respect to this conflict, is placing Israel where it is in the first place. What is the matter with you people? You want to park them forcibly into an area that you claim hates them due to their 72-virgins mentality, draw up artificial borders pretending that would keep such people away and then call "the haters" the aggressors -- are you really THAT stupid?Generally Israel doesn’t even want war, they want to be left the hell alone. Their military is a much more defensive force than the Hezabollah.
Generally Jews just want to make money and be left alone, the a-typical behavior.
Generally the fundamentalist Arabs want to fight holy wars in the name of Allah.
The Arab fundamentalists are the aggressors here, you have the fucker and the fucked.
What, by the way, is a “pretty much irrefutable fact†exactly?
.
-
MKFaizi
Tharan wrote:
How old are you? If you are under thirty-five, I think you should join the army -- infantry, of course. No kidding.
Then, write a book about it and somebody like Oliver Stone can turn it into a movie. I thought we might have learned something from Vietnam. All the written accounts and books and movies. No one got a thing out of them, I reckon.
Unfortunately, I do not think anyone learned anything.
Some good anti-war accounts from some American soldiers serving in Iraq over on You Tube. Just kids themselves.
Faizi
Spoken like a real shell-shocked grunt, Tharan.Children are often the first to die. They run the slowest and don't hide well.
How old are you? If you are under thirty-five, I think you should join the army -- infantry, of course. No kidding.
Then, write a book about it and somebody like Oliver Stone can turn it into a movie. I thought we might have learned something from Vietnam. All the written accounts and books and movies. No one got a thing out of them, I reckon.
Unfortunately, I do not think anyone learned anything.
Some good anti-war accounts from some American soldiers serving in Iraq over on You Tube. Just kids themselves.
Faizi
-
Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Milli wrote:
You see, Historicaly the Jews have been kicked off this land many times before by empires with superior military and stronger wills. They have even been enslaved a few times after they were booted off their own land.
Throughout history Jews have been treated as the white nigger.
And now that the Jews have their land back and the western world actually gives them some weapons to protect themselves with, the Jews are now the bad guys for firing back against some crazy emotionally unbalanced Arabs. Oh look out! The evil Jews have stolen the Arab’s land…
Give me a break, if the Arabs weren’t so emotionally unbalanced they would just pick one of the surrounding Arabs nations and leave Israsel in peace.
Islam is one of the most irrational of all religions. It creates monsters in weak people.
Leyla Shen wrote:
How many Jews are stupid enough to strap a bomb to themselves and run into a group of people to detonate it?
I don’t care, but that is dumb. Jews are much more clever, their intellects are a bit more developed in that their limited reason faculty would not allow them to do such a stupid thing.
Yes, but I could create an interesting argument to counter this, and just for fun I will, this should cause some interesting responses.You can only say this if you ignore the fundamentally fucked up nature of the establishment of israel in the first place, which neocons and the CJDD (chronic judeo deferential disorder)afflicted do regularly.
You see, Historicaly the Jews have been kicked off this land many times before by empires with superior military and stronger wills. They have even been enslaved a few times after they were booted off their own land.
Throughout history Jews have been treated as the white nigger.
And now that the Jews have their land back and the western world actually gives them some weapons to protect themselves with, the Jews are now the bad guys for firing back against some crazy emotionally unbalanced Arabs. Oh look out! The evil Jews have stolen the Arab’s land…
Give me a break, if the Arabs weren’t so emotionally unbalanced they would just pick one of the surrounding Arabs nations and leave Israsel in peace.
Islam is one of the most irrational of all religions. It creates monsters in weak people.
Leyla Shen wrote:
I say statistically speaking you will have more irrational terrorist Arabs then irrational terrorist Jews.What, by the way, is a “pretty much irrefutable fact†exactly?
How many Jews are stupid enough to strap a bomb to themselves and run into a group of people to detonate it?
I don’t care, but that is dumb. Jews are much more clever, their intellects are a bit more developed in that their limited reason faculty would not allow them to do such a stupid thing.
Last edited by Ryan Rudolph on Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Leyla Shen
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:12 pm
- Location: Flippen-well AUSTRALIA
I think you should be drafted immediately.
You're certainly useless at sound reasoning. Really, you would have done well with Hitler's mob. Ironic.
Of course the Jews are the bad guys. This is an irrefutable fact. If they weren't so emotionally unbalanced, they would move to a country more accepting of them.
Might, intellectual and not military, is right. That the West has mastered "might" in exercising force is not the same thing.
This is why your argument is irrational: it goes round in circles. The Ottoman Empire fell to a lesser might, remember?
.
You're certainly useless at sound reasoning. Really, you would have done well with Hitler's mob. Ironic.
Of course the Jews are the bad guys. This is an irrefutable fact. If they weren't so emotionally unbalanced, they would move to a country more accepting of them.
Might, intellectual and not military, is right. That the West has mastered "might" in exercising force is not the same thing.
This is why your argument is irrational: it goes round in circles. The Ottoman Empire fell to a lesser might, remember?
.
-
MKFaizi
Dan,
In part, this is the reason that I was not suited for the army. I would have pumped my M16 into that captain motherfucker. FRIENDLY FUCKIN FIRE!! I always knew that about myself. I would have done it in a heartbeat and it would not have mattered whether the heartless murderer was Israeli or American or Hezbollah or anything else. I would have killed him without a moment's hesitation.
In basic, I always knew my enemy and my enemy did not necessarily have slanted eyes or brown skin or white skin or black or whatever else. My enemy could be anyone, regardless of race or creed; regardless of whether I was supposed to be on his side or not. My enemy was always hate and ignorance. There were many people I encountered in the American army that I completely loathed; loathed enough that, given the circumstances, I would have killed. I was taught to kill. I was also thought to think independently and, because of that, I would not tolerate killing of innocents, no matter who was doing it.
Sorry. I know this is trivial but I am so sick and tired of hearing about the goddamned seventy two virgins.
Faizi
They get to play Barbie. A virgin child among virgin children gets to play Barbie or collect Pokemon cards or those funny plastic purple or blue or pink ponies with long plastic hair or listen to the Spice Girls -- whatever is popular now with the prepubescent set. They do not get shot seventeen times when they are running scared to death carrying a bookbag.How many virgin whores does a 13 year old girl get? And what does she do with them once she gets them?
In part, this is the reason that I was not suited for the army. I would have pumped my M16 into that captain motherfucker. FRIENDLY FUCKIN FIRE!! I always knew that about myself. I would have done it in a heartbeat and it would not have mattered whether the heartless murderer was Israeli or American or Hezbollah or anything else. I would have killed him without a moment's hesitation.
In basic, I always knew my enemy and my enemy did not necessarily have slanted eyes or brown skin or white skin or black or whatever else. My enemy could be anyone, regardless of race or creed; regardless of whether I was supposed to be on his side or not. My enemy was always hate and ignorance. There were many people I encountered in the American army that I completely loathed; loathed enough that, given the circumstances, I would have killed. I was taught to kill. I was also thought to think independently and, because of that, I would not tolerate killing of innocents, no matter who was doing it.
Sorry. I know this is trivial but I am so sick and tired of hearing about the goddamned seventy two virgins.
Faizi
-
MKFaizi
Diebert wrote to Tharan:
After that, Israel went after Lebanon -- not just Hezbollah -- with horrible vengeance. The point is that Israel started the shelling and started the bombing, not Hezbollah.
It is hard for me to understand the reason for this erroneous supposition. Just ignorance? Prejudice? Assumption about crazy Muslims? For one thing, Lebanon has a large Christian population.
It is hard for me to understand why Israel is favored in the west -- especially the US. Any other US administration -- NIXON WHERE ARE YOU??!!-- COME BACK -- would have laid a heavy hand on Israel but this one -- well, whatever Israel wants!
Well, my point is that the assumption that Hezbollah started the shelling is stunning.
I also wonder why the Israeli army has not been able to stop Hezbollah by now. I mean, they are lobbing relatively crude rockets. Israel claims to have killed more than four hundred Hezbollah soldiers. It is hard for me to believe that they cannot root out the nest that is firing the rockets.
My guess is that they are buying time to justify destroying as much of Lebanon as possible. If they strike off the nest firing the rockets, there will be no justification for continuing the destruction. As long as Hezbolla continues to lob rockets into northern Israel, the destruction and killing in Lebanon is justified, no matter how many civilians are killed; no matter destruction of infrastructure.
Faizi
This is what gets me. Admittedly, the events in this conflict have unfolded so fast that it is hard to keep up. I remember hearing about a soldier being kidnapped in Gaza and Israel was going into Gaza. Then, the soldiers were kidnapped by Hezbollah.FYI, the shelling in this particular war only started after Israel invaded Lebanon as a response to capturing IDF soldiers. Just like Hezbollah came into existence after Israel occupied Lebanon and never properly left.
After that, Israel went after Lebanon -- not just Hezbollah -- with horrible vengeance. The point is that Israel started the shelling and started the bombing, not Hezbollah.
It is hard for me to understand the reason for this erroneous supposition. Just ignorance? Prejudice? Assumption about crazy Muslims? For one thing, Lebanon has a large Christian population.
It is hard for me to understand why Israel is favored in the west -- especially the US. Any other US administration -- NIXON WHERE ARE YOU??!!-- COME BACK -- would have laid a heavy hand on Israel but this one -- well, whatever Israel wants!
Well, my point is that the assumption that Hezbollah started the shelling is stunning.
I also wonder why the Israeli army has not been able to stop Hezbollah by now. I mean, they are lobbing relatively crude rockets. Israel claims to have killed more than four hundred Hezbollah soldiers. It is hard for me to believe that they cannot root out the nest that is firing the rockets.
My guess is that they are buying time to justify destroying as much of Lebanon as possible. If they strike off the nest firing the rockets, there will be no justification for continuing the destruction. As long as Hezbolla continues to lob rockets into northern Israel, the destruction and killing in Lebanon is justified, no matter how many civilians are killed; no matter destruction of infrastructure.
Faizi
-
Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Leyla Shen wrote:
You misunderstand, I’m not picking sides, both their behavior is irrational, but I believe generally speaking there is a higher probability that Arabs will behave irrationally because they are conditioned by one of the worst religions in the world.Of course the Jews are the bad guys. This is an irrefutable fact. If they weren't so emotionally unbalanced, they would move to a country more accepting of them.
Last edited by Ryan Rudolph on Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
MKFaizi
Dan wrote:
This whole thing is insane. Why, if it is true that many Israelis are agnostic or atheist, does it matter to them that they are in the Holy Land? Someone -- Diebert, I think -- posted a quote something to the effect, "Why would a thinking person want to live there?"
Good question. "Marsha, here's the choice -- you can either live in India or Israel."
No brainer. I would not especially want to live in India but I would choose it over Israel. Why would any sane person want to live in a country that is considered to be an illegitimate transplant by its neighbors?
I would rather be in Philadelphia and I loathe Philadelphia.
And another thing --
Kevin mentioned something about the Muslim world -- so called -- going after India if Israel was out of the picture. India is still a very poor country. It is vast and poor with a huge population of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Sikhs, Jains -- whatever else.
There will always be the border spats between India and Pakistan. Pakistan is also a very poor country that once was part of India. Pakistan and India share many cultural similarities.
The danger of Pakistan is not the attacking of India. The danger of Pakistan is the danger of it becoming a theocracy. Pakistan is well contained under current marshall law. It has historically functioned better under marshall law.
There is a lot of hatred toward the west in Pakistan. Much hatred for the US. India also is not particularly friendly to the US.
There is no particular danger to India from Muslims -- other than the on going Paki spats.
The Saudis and the Kuwaitis and the Jordanese and the whoever else are very affluent societies built on oil. They would definitely have no interest in India. They think of Indians and Pakistanis as slaves for their use.
Iran is also oil rich. What would they get out of India? Mangoes?
If anything, in a world conflict, I think India would go with the Muslims. In WWII, most Indians were hoping that the Germans would win.
Faizi
Definitely. Brazil offered land for the Jewish homeland.I'm almost certain Brazil belongs on that list as well.
This whole thing is insane. Why, if it is true that many Israelis are agnostic or atheist, does it matter to them that they are in the Holy Land? Someone -- Diebert, I think -- posted a quote something to the effect, "Why would a thinking person want to live there?"
Good question. "Marsha, here's the choice -- you can either live in India or Israel."
No brainer. I would not especially want to live in India but I would choose it over Israel. Why would any sane person want to live in a country that is considered to be an illegitimate transplant by its neighbors?
I would rather be in Philadelphia and I loathe Philadelphia.
And another thing --
Kevin mentioned something about the Muslim world -- so called -- going after India if Israel was out of the picture. India is still a very poor country. It is vast and poor with a huge population of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Sikhs, Jains -- whatever else.
There will always be the border spats between India and Pakistan. Pakistan is also a very poor country that once was part of India. Pakistan and India share many cultural similarities.
The danger of Pakistan is not the attacking of India. The danger of Pakistan is the danger of it becoming a theocracy. Pakistan is well contained under current marshall law. It has historically functioned better under marshall law.
There is a lot of hatred toward the west in Pakistan. Much hatred for the US. India also is not particularly friendly to the US.
There is no particular danger to India from Muslims -- other than the on going Paki spats.
The Saudis and the Kuwaitis and the Jordanese and the whoever else are very affluent societies built on oil. They would definitely have no interest in India. They think of Indians and Pakistanis as slaves for their use.
Iran is also oil rich. What would they get out of India? Mangoes?
If anything, in a world conflict, I think India would go with the Muslims. In WWII, most Indians were hoping that the Germans would win.
Faizi
-
MKFaizi
Universal Hooker wrote:
I think it is hideous bias and idiocy. Are not the Jews fundamentalist? Is it indicative of emotional superiority to continue killing civilians on the pretense that Hezbollah is hiding among them while failing to reach their target? Surely, if the rocketeer Hezbollas were among the general population of Lebanon, Israel would have hit them by now. Israel has been strafing the general population of Lebanon for nearly a month.
It has been said here that Israel should not be criticized for defending itself. But Israel started the throwing of missiles and the bombing. Does not Lebanon have the right to try -- Hezbollah does not have the means of Israel -- to defend itself?
I could not care less that only sixty five percent of Israelis are religious. They must be religious in some way or they would not be in Israel.
This conflict is not rooted in Al Qaeda. The Lebanese people are not fundamentalist Muslims. It is not Hezbollah that is suffering.
Faizi
P.S. -- My guess is that you want to be perceived as emotionally superior.
On what do you base this?Generally, psychologically speaking the fundamentalist Arabs seem to be much more inferior emotionally compared to the general Jewish population.
I think it is hideous bias and idiocy. Are not the Jews fundamentalist? Is it indicative of emotional superiority to continue killing civilians on the pretense that Hezbollah is hiding among them while failing to reach their target? Surely, if the rocketeer Hezbollas were among the general population of Lebanon, Israel would have hit them by now. Israel has been strafing the general population of Lebanon for nearly a month.
It has been said here that Israel should not be criticized for defending itself. But Israel started the throwing of missiles and the bombing. Does not Lebanon have the right to try -- Hezbollah does not have the means of Israel -- to defend itself?
I could not care less that only sixty five percent of Israelis are religious. They must be religious in some way or they would not be in Israel.
This conflict is not rooted in Al Qaeda. The Lebanese people are not fundamentalist Muslims. It is not Hezbollah that is suffering.
Faizi
P.S. -- My guess is that you want to be perceived as emotionally superior.
Leyla, for you dear. Some small support I read today of an earlier argument of mine.
Hezbolllah's Aim is Power
An aberration, surely? Unfortunately not. When the Herald raised the issue with Ziad Abs, an adviser to one of the Christian leaders, he volunteered this information: "We have six or seven hospitals that have been built and equipped with international funding, but all remain closed because there is no agreement on which sect is to have control of them."
Support Lebanese and you are supporting inane masculine emotions, the bad side of masculinity.
Hezbolllah's Aim is Power
An aberration, surely? Unfortunately not. When the Herald raised the issue with Ziad Abs, an adviser to one of the Christian leaders, he volunteered this information: "We have six or seven hospitals that have been built and equipped with international funding, but all remain closed because there is no agreement on which sect is to have control of them."
Support Lebanese and you are supporting inane masculine emotions, the bad side of masculinity.
-
MKFaizi
Whore wrote:
I do think you should go to Israel and volunteer for duty as a soldier. They would take you. There are many Americans fighting for Israel.
Go ahead. Fight for these emotionally superior people. These non-fanatics.
Put your filthy money where your filthy mouth is.
Faizi
You know nothing of it.Islam is one of the most irrational of all religions. It creates monsters in weak people.
I do think you should go to Israel and volunteer for duty as a soldier. They would take you. There are many Americans fighting for Israel.
Go ahead. Fight for these emotionally superior people. These non-fanatics.
Put your filthy money where your filthy mouth is.
Faizi
-
Ryan Rudolph
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:32 am
- Location: British Columbia, Canada
Faizi wrote:
Now as tragic as that is Faizi, the thought of Leyla Shen not being able to speak anymore (oh the inhumanity) the truth is that these series of events were one event, one interconnected event where no sides should be taken, one should just observe it as it is. One should see A=A.
So you see your initial punch was just as much the cause to Leyla losing her tongue as my returned punch.
And perhaps I punched you yesterday, and you are simply returning the favor. And suppose this sort of thing has been going on for fifty years, so you see no one is to blame, it is just one movement of causal-ignorance.
Faizi suppose you slap me in the face and without thinking as almost a knee jerk reaction I might just slap you back. And what is tragic is lets suppose Leyla Shen is standing behind you sticking her tongue out at me and the impact of the punch causes you to fall into her causing her to bite her own tongue off…I think it is hideous bias and idiocy. Are not the Jews fundamentalist? Is it indicative of emotional superiority to continue killing civilians on the pretense that Hezbollah is hiding among them while failing to reach their target? Surely, if the rocketeer Hezbollas were among the general population of Lebanon, Israel would have hit them by now. Israel has been strafing the general population of Lebanon for nearly a month.
Now as tragic as that is Faizi, the thought of Leyla Shen not being able to speak anymore (oh the inhumanity) the truth is that these series of events were one event, one interconnected event where no sides should be taken, one should just observe it as it is. One should see A=A.
So you see your initial punch was just as much the cause to Leyla losing her tongue as my returned punch.
And perhaps I punched you yesterday, and you are simply returning the favor. And suppose this sort of thing has been going on for fifty years, so you see no one is to blame, it is just one movement of causal-ignorance.
-
MKFaizi
Whore:
Stupid, of course I have no control over events in the Middle East. I am not getting emotional/moral. I am disgusted and will continue to be disgusted. Were you not the one who told me I should read Jewish history in order to understand the horror of the holocaust? Why should I be more disgusted with the Jewish holocaust than I am with the current Lebanese slaughter? Who do you think you are that you can dictate to me what I should think or feel? You are cunt.
If I came here lamenting the plight of the Jews during the thirties and forties of the last century, would my emotional/moral stance be acceptable to you?
Is freedom the freedom from disgust? If so, I don't want it. If I wanted that kind of freedom, I could become a crack head or a fucking Buddhist. I could load up on heroin and forget about it. I could go upstairs to Genius Superior and squawk about A=A and this or that thing that is nothing but escapism. I have no desire to become comfortably numb.
Bitch, ask Dan Rowden the same questions you asked me.
You won't do that so I will ask him for you.
Faizi
Take this crap up with Dan Rowden. You perceive me as an easy target and I am not biting. You are too cowardly to accuse Dan of the same thing. You are pussy. Dan and Diebert have both written more and with more knowledge on this subject than myself. Take it up with them. Ask Dan why he is getting so moral/emotional. Ask Diebert. You goddamn coward.You are getting moral/emotional over a series of events that you have no control over, there is nothing anybody can do to stop what is happening. You are powerless and when you see that you will be free.
Stupid, of course I have no control over events in the Middle East. I am not getting emotional/moral. I am disgusted and will continue to be disgusted. Were you not the one who told me I should read Jewish history in order to understand the horror of the holocaust? Why should I be more disgusted with the Jewish holocaust than I am with the current Lebanese slaughter? Who do you think you are that you can dictate to me what I should think or feel? You are cunt.
If I came here lamenting the plight of the Jews during the thirties and forties of the last century, would my emotional/moral stance be acceptable to you?
Is freedom the freedom from disgust? If so, I don't want it. If I wanted that kind of freedom, I could become a crack head or a fucking Buddhist. I could load up on heroin and forget about it. I could go upstairs to Genius Superior and squawk about A=A and this or that thing that is nothing but escapism. I have no desire to become comfortably numb.
Bitch, ask Dan Rowden the same questions you asked me.
You won't do that so I will ask him for you.
Faizi
-
MKFaizi
Dan,
I think he needs a man's opinion but he is too pussy to ask it. His game is to attempt to put down the opinion of a female, no matter how educated. He is a misogynist, i.e., pussy.
I think he should take you on -- why are you getting moral/emotional?
Faizi
The cunt, Cosmic Prick, is too cowardly to direct this question to you so I am doing it for him. He directed it to me because he sees me as an easy target, i.e., a woman who can always be doubted.You are getting moral/emotional over a series of events that you have no control over, there is nothing anybody can do to stop what is happening. You are powerless and when you see that you will be free.
I think he needs a man's opinion but he is too pussy to ask it. His game is to attempt to put down the opinion of a female, no matter how educated. He is a misogynist, i.e., pussy.
I think he should take you on -- why are you getting moral/emotional?
Faizi
-
MKFaizi
Whore wrote:
Suppose I shove a large plastic dildo up your ass and without thinking you drop dead on the ground and Leyla has nothing to do with it.
If I was forum moderator, I would kick your ass off. Toot suite.
Spammer.
I will not reply to any further posts directed to me from you.
Faizi
You are spamming. This is completely off subject and an attempt by you to draw two females into some sort of slug fest with you. I am not interested and I do not think Leyla will be interested.Faizi suppose you slap me in the face and without thinking as almost a knee jerk reaction I might just slap you back. And what is tragic is lets suppose Leyla Shen is standing behind you sticking her tongue out at me and the impact of the
Suppose I shove a large plastic dildo up your ass and without thinking you drop dead on the ground and Leyla has nothing to do with it.
If I was forum moderator, I would kick your ass off. Toot suite.
Spammer.
I will not reply to any further posts directed to me from you.
Faizi
-
MKFaizi
Tharan,
He calls himself Cosmic Prostitute. How is that different from Universal Hooker or whatever other whore thing?
Like yourself and Leyla and Dan Rowden and Kevin Solway and David Quinn, I use my name.
I resent hell out of being referred to as "ladies."
I cannot speak for Leyla Shen but I can say that there is nothing of a lady in me.
I do think a stint in the army would do you some good, Tharan. Take that whore with you. Go kill some little girls. That will make men out of you.
Faizi
He calls himself Cosmic Prostitute. How is that different from Universal Hooker or whatever other whore thing?
Like yourself and Leyla and Dan Rowden and Kevin Solway and David Quinn, I use my name.
I resent hell out of being referred to as "ladies."
I cannot speak for Leyla Shen but I can say that there is nothing of a lady in me.
I do think a stint in the army would do you some good, Tharan. Take that whore with you. Go kill some little girls. That will make men out of you.
Faizi
-
Dan Rowden
- Posts: 5739
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
- Contact:
It's funny to me that people think I'm taking sides in the issue. I'm not. I am merely finding it interesting to watch how arguments are being constructed and the attention being given to quality and relevance. Here is an outline of the arguments that I have so far found variously ill-informed, badly conceived or just plain stupid:
# Israel's existence is under threat; they are trying to avoid extermination by the Arabs.
Israel has at no time since its creation been under genuine threat of extinction. Israel does not fight and has never fought its wars alone; it has always had the US and Britian to back it up. Other than in '73 (Yom Kippur) Israel has never even really taken much of a pounding. Also, in case anyone has forgotten, Israel is a nuclear power with reportedly up to 400 warheads. It is vacuous to argue that Israel's actual existence is under threat from anyone, especially in the contemporary situation. Even the Mayor of Hafia has been indulging in hyperbole about Hizbollah trying to "annihilate" them with their rocket attacks (which haven't happened now in 5 days). In general, however, Israel's disproportianate military might has been historically justifiable in the context of its survival. I have no argument with that of istelf.
# The kidnapping of one soldier by Hamas in Gaza and two soldiers by Hizbollah in northern Israel (or was it in south Lebanon?) grants Israel justification for its actions (side note: the Mayor of Hafia himself cites this as the reason for Israel's actions, rather than any shelling by Hizbollah).
If this argument is to be taken seriously, then its corollary must also. That being that the thousands of Palestinians and Lebanese that are incarcerated in Israel (mostly civilians), many of them simply "kidnapped" also justifies the actions of Hizbollah and Hamas militants. Most of those incarcerated are there because of Israel's collective punishment doctrine - i.e. the families and associates of those accused of crimes are also jailed (a significant number of them children). Many of these prisoners are neither charged nor tried, and torture is routine (this is testified to by Israel's own humanitarian organisations). To argue that this is a doctrine of an intellectually superior group of people is to argue something rather strange. But that collective punishment doctrine also explains much of Israel's behaviour towards the Palestinians and others, much as it explains the illegal under international law habit of bulldozing people's homes (along with the occasional female peacenic).
# Arabs are irrational fundamentalists who basically just want to kills Jews.
This is one of those nifty little urban myths that has taken on rather grandiose mythical proportions. It just isn't true. The actual conflict is between Zionistic Jews and their apparent agenda and Arabs. There exists a significant internal conflict between Orthodox Judaism and Zionism. As I posted elsewhere, not all Jews agree with the existence of the state of Israel. Before the influx of Ashkenazi Jews there was little conflict between Jews and local Arab populations in that region. Today in Hafia, there is little conflict between such groups. In Israel generally there is little conflict between Jews and the Arabs who decided to stay in '48. There is a significant Jewish population in Iran which does not suffer persecution by the Iranians.
Jewish/Arab conflict, per se, is a myth. Serious Islamic religosity and serious orthodox/Hasidic Jewry are bound to get on because they are very similar in their particular reglious foolishness. The religious and cultural face of Israel is now a complex one due to the gradual migration of secular Jewry and Ashkenazi influences. Unravelling that to discover actual Israeli agendas and motives is a task that might not really be worth the effort. But then, given the enormous influence the Zionist lobby now has at the highest levels of the US, it might well be. It's hard not to find oneself asking questions when you have facts (not conspiracy theories) such as a person like Rabbi Dov Zakheim overseeing the Pentagon's budget (Zakheim is a known Zionist and an Israeli citizen). The huge influence on American culture and finances by Zionists is an issue that ought be more than just the province of the conspiracy theory circuit. It has wide implications and we're seeing them unfolding in the mid-east right now.
This is the same man, btw, who was a signatory to the now infamous think tank paper that called for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" to enable a restructuring of the mid-east and an opportunity for the US to institute its version of a new world order. Can't imagine any tea-towel heads having that kind of influence in Washington, can you? But then, there's the matter of where the Saudis and the Bin Ladens fit into that picture.......oooops, can feel myself slipping into conspiracy mode! Arrhhhhh....resist, resist..
# Muslims are a lower level form of humanity more given to radicalism and violence than Jews.
Wow, that argument is so deficient in terms of historical, geographic and cultural fact that it's hard to know where to start in refuting it. I feel as if it's time for the "toss a whole bunch of disconnected quotes together" strategy. Before I do, can I remind those in the audiance making this argument that the Bible/Torah is not the main or only source of attitude and cultural reality of Jewry. Remember the Talmud? The implementation by Jewish supremacists of Talmudic hate literature has caused untold suffering throughout history and now, in occupied Palestine, it is used as a justification for the mass murder of Palestinian civilians. The Talmud specifically defines all who are not Jews as non-human animals. Anyway, some randomly generated quotes from my trusty anti-Semitism bot:
Talmud:
# Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
# Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
# Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.
# Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
# Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
# Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
# Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
# Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
# Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
# Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
# Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
# Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
# Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
# Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.
# Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament. [Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).]
Some Random Jaw Droppers:
# Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.
# Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.
# Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden. [Except for the cows who he seemingly left for the Gentiles - D.R]
# Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.
# Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
# Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
# Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
# Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
# Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."
# Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
# Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.
# Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic."
# Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs."
# Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.
# Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.
# Abodah Zarah 70a. The question was asked of the rabbi whether wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been gentiles (a gentile touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews. (Also cf. Gemara Rosh Hashanah 25b).
# Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed"). [Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B.]
# Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
# Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
# On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").
# University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).
# Kerithoth 6b: Uses of Oil of Anointing. "Our Rabbis have taught: He who pours the oil of anointing over cattle or vessels is not guilty; if over gentiles (goyim) or the dead, he is not guilty. The law relating to cattle and vessels is right, for it is written: "Upon the flesh of man (Adam), shall it not be poured (Exodus 30:32]); and cattle and vessels are not man (Adam).
#The Old Testament Mosaic law states that touching a human corpse or the grave of a human imparts uncleanness to those who touch it. But the Talmud teaches that if a Jew touches the grave of a Gentile, the Jew is not rendered unclean, since Gentiles are not human (not of Adam).
# From Baba Mezia 114b: ""A Jewish priest was standing in a graveyard. When asked why he was standing there in apparent violation of the Mosaic law, he replied that it was permissible, since the law only prohibits Jews from coming into contact with the graves of humans (Adamites), and he was standing in a gentile graveyard. For it has been taught by Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: 'The graves of gentiles [goyim] do not defile. For it is written, 'And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men (Adam)' (Ezekiel 34:31); only ye are designated men (Adam)."
# In Berakoth 58a the Talmud uses Ezekiel 23:20 as proof of the sub-human status of gentiles. It also teaches that anyone (even a Jewish man) who reveals this Talmudic teaching about non-Jews deserves death, since revealing it makes Gentiles wrathful and causes the repression of Judaism.
Moses Maimonides:
I hope we know who he is; if not: ""Moses Maimonides is considered the greatest codifier and philosopher in Jewish history. He is often affectionately referred to as the Rambam, after the initials of his name and title, Rabenu Moshe Ben Maimon, "Our Rabbi, Moses son of Maimon." [Maimonides' Principles, edited by Aryeh Kaplan, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America,, p. 3]."
# Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, (Moznaim Publishing Corporation, Brooklyn, New York, 1990, Chapter 10, English Translation), p. 184: "Accordingly, if we see an idolater (gentile) being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him." The Hebrew text of the Feldheim 1981 edition of Mishnah Torah states this as well.
# It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.
# Maimonides taught in another part of the Mishnah Torah that gentiles are not human: "Man alone, and not vessels, can contract uncleanness by carriage. ...The corpse of a gentile, however, does not convey uncleanness by overshadowing. ...a gentile does not contract corpse uncleanness; and if a gentile touches, carries, or overshadows a corpse he is as one who did not touch it.
# "To what is this like? It is like a beast which touches a corpse or overshadows it. And this applies not to corpse uncleanness only but to any other kind of uncleanness: neither gentiles nor cattle are susceptible to any uncleanness." (The Code of Maimonides, vol. 10, translated by Herbert Danby, Yale University Press, New Haven, 1954, pp. 8-9).
# Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2:11: "A Jew who killed a righteous gentile is not executed in a court of law. It says in Exodus 21:14, 'If a man schemes against his fellow man and kills the man deliberately, take him away from the altar and put him to death.' But a gentile is not considered a man, and even more so, a Jew is not executed for killing an unrighteous gentile. (This explains the ability of a 10 year old girl's miuderer to think himself innocent and be found [so -D.R]
Had enough yet? Damn, I was just getting started!
Some political quotes:
# 'If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.' -- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
# 'This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy.' -- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
# 'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!' -- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
# '[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.' -- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.
# '(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls.' -- Israeli Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers, New York Times April 1, 1988
# 'It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.' -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
# 'Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them.' -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
# 'Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.' -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online .
# "It is our duty to force all mankind to accept the seven Noahide laws, and if not — they will be killed." Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg
----------------------
Anyway, that's enough to ruminate upon for a while. My reason for posting such quotes? To demonstrate that there's no reason to take a pro-Israeli stance in this conflict on the basis of arguments of the evil of mad Arabs. As to the secular Zionist community, well, I don't find anything especially promising in their mentality either. Mindless materialism and obssession with money and power is their religion. Nothing interesting to see here folks; move along please....
Dan Rowden
# Israel's existence is under threat; they are trying to avoid extermination by the Arabs.
Israel has at no time since its creation been under genuine threat of extinction. Israel does not fight and has never fought its wars alone; it has always had the US and Britian to back it up. Other than in '73 (Yom Kippur) Israel has never even really taken much of a pounding. Also, in case anyone has forgotten, Israel is a nuclear power with reportedly up to 400 warheads. It is vacuous to argue that Israel's actual existence is under threat from anyone, especially in the contemporary situation. Even the Mayor of Hafia has been indulging in hyperbole about Hizbollah trying to "annihilate" them with their rocket attacks (which haven't happened now in 5 days). In general, however, Israel's disproportianate military might has been historically justifiable in the context of its survival. I have no argument with that of istelf.
# The kidnapping of one soldier by Hamas in Gaza and two soldiers by Hizbollah in northern Israel (or was it in south Lebanon?) grants Israel justification for its actions (side note: the Mayor of Hafia himself cites this as the reason for Israel's actions, rather than any shelling by Hizbollah).
If this argument is to be taken seriously, then its corollary must also. That being that the thousands of Palestinians and Lebanese that are incarcerated in Israel (mostly civilians), many of them simply "kidnapped" also justifies the actions of Hizbollah and Hamas militants. Most of those incarcerated are there because of Israel's collective punishment doctrine - i.e. the families and associates of those accused of crimes are also jailed (a significant number of them children). Many of these prisoners are neither charged nor tried, and torture is routine (this is testified to by Israel's own humanitarian organisations). To argue that this is a doctrine of an intellectually superior group of people is to argue something rather strange. But that collective punishment doctrine also explains much of Israel's behaviour towards the Palestinians and others, much as it explains the illegal under international law habit of bulldozing people's homes (along with the occasional female peacenic).
# Arabs are irrational fundamentalists who basically just want to kills Jews.
This is one of those nifty little urban myths that has taken on rather grandiose mythical proportions. It just isn't true. The actual conflict is between Zionistic Jews and their apparent agenda and Arabs. There exists a significant internal conflict between Orthodox Judaism and Zionism. As I posted elsewhere, not all Jews agree with the existence of the state of Israel. Before the influx of Ashkenazi Jews there was little conflict between Jews and local Arab populations in that region. Today in Hafia, there is little conflict between such groups. In Israel generally there is little conflict between Jews and the Arabs who decided to stay in '48. There is a significant Jewish population in Iran which does not suffer persecution by the Iranians.
Jewish/Arab conflict, per se, is a myth. Serious Islamic religosity and serious orthodox/Hasidic Jewry are bound to get on because they are very similar in their particular reglious foolishness. The religious and cultural face of Israel is now a complex one due to the gradual migration of secular Jewry and Ashkenazi influences. Unravelling that to discover actual Israeli agendas and motives is a task that might not really be worth the effort. But then, given the enormous influence the Zionist lobby now has at the highest levels of the US, it might well be. It's hard not to find oneself asking questions when you have facts (not conspiracy theories) such as a person like Rabbi Dov Zakheim overseeing the Pentagon's budget (Zakheim is a known Zionist and an Israeli citizen). The huge influence on American culture and finances by Zionists is an issue that ought be more than just the province of the conspiracy theory circuit. It has wide implications and we're seeing them unfolding in the mid-east right now.
This is the same man, btw, who was a signatory to the now infamous think tank paper that called for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" to enable a restructuring of the mid-east and an opportunity for the US to institute its version of a new world order. Can't imagine any tea-towel heads having that kind of influence in Washington, can you? But then, there's the matter of where the Saudis and the Bin Ladens fit into that picture.......oooops, can feel myself slipping into conspiracy mode! Arrhhhhh....resist, resist..
# Muslims are a lower level form of humanity more given to radicalism and violence than Jews.
Wow, that argument is so deficient in terms of historical, geographic and cultural fact that it's hard to know where to start in refuting it. I feel as if it's time for the "toss a whole bunch of disconnected quotes together" strategy. Before I do, can I remind those in the audiance making this argument that the Bible/Torah is not the main or only source of attitude and cultural reality of Jewry. Remember the Talmud? The implementation by Jewish supremacists of Talmudic hate literature has caused untold suffering throughout history and now, in occupied Palestine, it is used as a justification for the mass murder of Palestinian civilians. The Talmud specifically defines all who are not Jews as non-human animals. Anyway, some randomly generated quotes from my trusty anti-Semitism bot:
Talmud:
# Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.
# Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.
# Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.
# Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.
# Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."
# Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."
# Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
# Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
# Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
# Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
# Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
# Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
# Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
# Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.
# Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament. [Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).]
Some Random Jaw Droppers:
# Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.
# Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.
# Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden. [Except for the cows who he seemingly left for the Gentiles - D.R]
# Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.
# Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
# Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
# Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
# Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
# Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."
# Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
# Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.
# Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic."
# Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs."
# Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.
# Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.
# Abodah Zarah 70a. The question was asked of the rabbi whether wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been gentiles (a gentile touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews. (Also cf. Gemara Rosh Hashanah 25b).
# Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed"). [Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B.]
# Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5).
# Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).
# On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Brooklyn Rabbi Meir Kahane, who told CBS News that his teaching that Arabs are "dogs" is derived "from the Talmud." (CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").
# University of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against goyim, a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).
# Kerithoth 6b: Uses of Oil of Anointing. "Our Rabbis have taught: He who pours the oil of anointing over cattle or vessels is not guilty; if over gentiles (goyim) or the dead, he is not guilty. The law relating to cattle and vessels is right, for it is written: "Upon the flesh of man (Adam), shall it not be poured (Exodus 30:32]); and cattle and vessels are not man (Adam).
#The Old Testament Mosaic law states that touching a human corpse or the grave of a human imparts uncleanness to those who touch it. But the Talmud teaches that if a Jew touches the grave of a Gentile, the Jew is not rendered unclean, since Gentiles are not human (not of Adam).
# From Baba Mezia 114b: ""A Jewish priest was standing in a graveyard. When asked why he was standing there in apparent violation of the Mosaic law, he replied that it was permissible, since the law only prohibits Jews from coming into contact with the graves of humans (Adamites), and he was standing in a gentile graveyard. For it has been taught by Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: 'The graves of gentiles [goyim] do not defile. For it is written, 'And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men (Adam)' (Ezekiel 34:31); only ye are designated men (Adam)."
# In Berakoth 58a the Talmud uses Ezekiel 23:20 as proof of the sub-human status of gentiles. It also teaches that anyone (even a Jewish man) who reveals this Talmudic teaching about non-Jews deserves death, since revealing it makes Gentiles wrathful and causes the repression of Judaism.
Moses Maimonides:
I hope we know who he is; if not: ""Moses Maimonides is considered the greatest codifier and philosopher in Jewish history. He is often affectionately referred to as the Rambam, after the initials of his name and title, Rabenu Moshe Ben Maimon, "Our Rabbi, Moses son of Maimon." [Maimonides' Principles, edited by Aryeh Kaplan, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America,, p. 3]."
# Maimonides, Mishnah Torah, (Moznaim Publishing Corporation, Brooklyn, New York, 1990, Chapter 10, English Translation), p. 184: "Accordingly, if we see an idolater (gentile) being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him." The Hebrew text of the Feldheim 1981 edition of Mishnah Torah states this as well.
# It is a mitzvah [religious duty], however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim, and apikorsim, and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.
# Maimonides taught in another part of the Mishnah Torah that gentiles are not human: "Man alone, and not vessels, can contract uncleanness by carriage. ...The corpse of a gentile, however, does not convey uncleanness by overshadowing. ...a gentile does not contract corpse uncleanness; and if a gentile touches, carries, or overshadows a corpse he is as one who did not touch it.
# "To what is this like? It is like a beast which touches a corpse or overshadows it. And this applies not to corpse uncleanness only but to any other kind of uncleanness: neither gentiles nor cattle are susceptible to any uncleanness." (The Code of Maimonides, vol. 10, translated by Herbert Danby, Yale University Press, New Haven, 1954, pp. 8-9).
# Maimonides, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Rotze'ach 2:11: "A Jew who killed a righteous gentile is not executed in a court of law. It says in Exodus 21:14, 'If a man schemes against his fellow man and kills the man deliberately, take him away from the altar and put him to death.' But a gentile is not considered a man, and even more so, a Jew is not executed for killing an unrighteous gentile. (This explains the ability of a 10 year old girl's miuderer to think himself innocent and be found [so -D.R]
Had enough yet? Damn, I was just getting started!
Some political quotes:
# 'If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.' -- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
# 'This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy.' -- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
# 'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!' -- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
# '[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs.' -- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.
# '(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls.' -- Israeli Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers, New York Times April 1, 1988
# 'It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.' -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
# 'Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them.' -- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
# 'Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial.' -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online .
# "It is our duty to force all mankind to accept the seven Noahide laws, and if not — they will be killed." Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg
----------------------
Anyway, that's enough to ruminate upon for a while. My reason for posting such quotes? To demonstrate that there's no reason to take a pro-Israeli stance in this conflict on the basis of arguments of the evil of mad Arabs. As to the secular Zionist community, well, I don't find anything especially promising in their mentality either. Mindless materialism and obssession with money and power is their religion. Nothing interesting to see here folks; move along please....
Dan Rowden
-
Dan Rowden
- Posts: 5739
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 8:03 pm
- Contact:
Cosmic wrote:
Israeli girls write messages on shells bound for Lebanon at a heavy
artillery position near Kiryat Shmona in northern Israel.
Evidence to the contrary:Generally, psychologically speaking the fundamentalist Arabs seem to be much more inferior emotionally compared to the general Jewish population.
Israeli girls write messages on shells bound for Lebanon at a heavy
artillery position near Kiryat Shmona in northern Israel.
-
Matt Gregory
- Posts: 1537
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:40 am
- Location: United States
-
Kevin Solway
- Posts: 2766
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 8:43 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
As far as I can tell they fully intend to "reincarnate" in the next generation of suicide bombers.drowden wrote:Hmm, so we just gun them down needlessly because we can? I'm sorry, even the maddest of the mad suicide bombers aren't that bad. At least they have the decency to rid us of themselves.Tharan wrote:Children are often the first to die. They run the slowest and don't hide well.
That girl was not shot in a war; an occupation is not a war.
In my view, when people are trying to kill you on a daily basis then you are pretty much at war. When a person is at war in this way then all kinds of extreme behavior become quite normal.
If all fighting soldiers were convicted of the crimes they commit during "war", then pretty much all soldiers would have to be imprisoned or executed, and nobody would ever sign-up to be a soldier.
-
Diebert van Rhijn
- Posts: 6469
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:43 pm
The lack of response throughout the world could be very enlightening when understood properly. And it starts with questioning, very hard questioning. But after years of cheerleader contests against "terrorism", no one dares to raise one finger in favor of a group labeled terrorist (by the US and Canada at least AFAIK) and against favoured poor "enfant terrible" Israel.MKFaizi wrote: It is hard for me to understand why Israel is favored in the west -- especially the US.
All these great free, democratic nations in the world shitting in their pants by the thought angering the "international community" by condemning Israel. Political suicide for most nations to speak up with anything more than idle pleas.
I'm waiting for Belgium to declare war on Israel anytime soon. But even there they forgot World War II and Munich and Czechoslovakia, 1938. In the US they never heard of these places anyway, they only remembered their own body counts back then, but forgot the causes. Such a young nation, still wallowing in the fresh blood that builds states and empires, no time to reflect upon the carnage inflicted, yet!
Well, Hezbollah consists of some of the best trained, hardened fighters in the world and have been supplied quite well. It's not a secret the Iranian military (hardened and experienced in their long war with Iraq) have taught them a few things as well.I also wonder why the Israeli army has not been able to stop Hezbollah by now. I mean, they are lobbing relatively crude rockets. Israel claims to have killed more than four hundred Hezbollah soldiers. It is hard for me to believe that they cannot root out the nest that is firing the rockets.
Hezbollah have been expecting Israel already for a few years. They can play now their favorite game: hit and run. I suspect they have worked for many years to prepare for the day Israel decided to finish them. And strength for them comes through decentralization and networks. They must have created hundreds of weapon caches, tunnels, hide-outs, fleeing routes, hide-outs in villages (without the weapons), battle plans and so on.
The biggest mistake is to underestimate the intelligence of the opponent. And the average Hezbollah, from what I hear, seems to me way more sharper, prepared, independent, death defying and motivated than the average IDF guy, who are considered the best trained in the world.
It's like how the US underestimated the swamp in Iraq. A swamp Saddam knew would drain the occupation, that's why he thought the US would never really invade: "they won't be that stupid". Saddam has now seen the light, and the darkness of the bottomless pit of stupidity of his opponents that fooled him.
Yes, crippling Lebanon means crippling Hezbollah to a certain extent. The reason this is important, including the buffer-zone they are creating, is the nearby planned future. The goal is to widen the war toward Syria, seen together with Iran as the root supporter of Hezbollah and Palestinian militants. Iran is under pressure military by the US and politicaly by the UN, so in the tight spot as well. They are double dog dared.My guess is that they are buying time to justify destroying as much of Lebanon as possible.
If Iran and Syria somehow can stay out of it now, the pressure will only build on them by Israel and the US, hoping to topple their governments or stir up a civil war inside the countries. Their are always internal factions ready to jump on a leader who looks weak and powerless, also in foreign affairs. Divide and conquer.