Quinn and Solways 'wise-man beards'

[avidaloca]

I can't imagine taking a razor to my face each and every morning.

That's why I switched to an electric with a soft foil years ago. I didn't like all the cuts and blood, even if they were only on the surface.

I only need a disposable razor for my neck area because it is a bad shape for an electric, and has a different kind of skin that is harder for it to shave.

[SBN Charles]

"The soul is a masculine character, pleasing to women in
the same way and for the same purpose as a masculine body or a well-trimmed
moustache."

While the topic is on facial hair a quotation from Sex & Character by Otto Weininger i remembered.

page 129.

Use this as you will.

[MKFaizi]

If I had to shave my face every single morning of my life, I would have to go on disability, however difficult.

Just not something I could stomach.

I would have to go into a mental institution or something.

I do not think that I could tolerate shaving my face.

Thank God, I do not have to do that.

Faizi

[MKFaizi]

Screw the soul and the well trimmed moustache.

Not different from make-up.

Had I been born male, I doubt that I would ever have shaved my face.

Putting on a little lipstick and mascara is not painful.

Faizi

[oborden]

Shaving isn't that bad, but I still don't do it very often. But then again, I grow a patchy sraggly beard as it is. But my father and grandfather had 'Jerry Garcia' beards, perhaps one day I will too.

[avidaloca]

Running a gently vibrating piece of soft curved metal over my face every day doesn't bother me.

[MKFaizi]

Glad to know that shaving one's face is not that painful. I am glad that I do not have to do it.

Faizi

[Pye]

*
Faizi writes:

Putting on a little lipstick and mascara is not painful.

It ought to be painful, psychically painful. Like the tears of a clown.

.

[MKFaizi]

But putting on makeup does not cause bleeding. It does not usually cause skin irritation.

Faizi

[Pye]

.

I got what you meant, Faizi, re: physical pain.

Did you get what I meant re: the psychic variety?

.

[MKFaizi]

duh...yup.

I do not think that I could take a razor to my face due to the physical pain. But I could be wrong. I have no beard nor any whiskers.

Faizi

[David Quinn]

Do you shave you legs and underarms? Pluck your eyebrows? Pluck out hairs around the mouth and chin? I'm not sure that men know the meaning of the word "pain" when it comes to personal vanities, not even the face-shavers.

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[Shardrol]

What's all this about the agonies of shaving your face? I don't think most men find it painful. I have some hairs on my face & when I want to look normal I just razor them off. Just takes a minute & doesn't hurt a bit. I used to tweeze & that was painful.

The idea of wearing lipstick or mascara is totally beyond the pale, though. I don't even think it looks good & it's, well. . . gross.

[David Quinn]

Agreed. It always makes me think of cows with lipstick. The two just don't go together at all.

As for shaving, it is the concept of it which I find painful, rather than the physical act. To spend time in front of a mirror altering your appearance for the sake of having thoughtless, shallow people think more highly of you is very undignified, and must be classed as a form of insanity.

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[MKFaizi]

I shave my underarms. I do not shave my legs often. I don't wear dresses. I have no chin hair to pluck or other hair on my face to pluck. I have very sparse eyebrows so nothing to pluck. I no longer wear any make up.

Sorry to have offended anyone by reckoning that shaving facial hair must be physically painful. I was going on what other men have told me. My first husband had a beard. He hated shaving because it was painful. My second husband was Pakistani. He had a moustache in the usual Paki way. He would not have grown a full beard because that was something for the very religious. His father had a long beard. He hated to shave, however. Considered it to be somewhat painful. According to Muslim tradition, he often shaved the pubic area as well as the underarms. Shaving one's balls is a real pain.

I used to shave my legs every day. When I was an adolescent, I shaved them twice a day. I do find razor burn to be painful -- not to mention the cuts.

Other men I have known had beards because they said that shaving was physically painful to them. They had thick facial hair and suffered much from razor burn and rashes. When I was in the army, I knew a few men who were temporarily exempt from shaving because of the breaking out it caused.

My son shaves his upper lip occasionally because it looks like his mouth is dirty if he does not shave off the down. He is pretty hairless. Just got thicker leg hair about a year ago. Until then, I called him my Mexican Hairless.

Shardrol, you may want to consider waxing. Very painless and does not promote more growth like shaving. My younger sister regularly waxes little hairs off my mother's face. Heat the wax in the microwave. Use a little wooden scoop to apply it sparingly to the affected areas. Let it set for a few seconds and rip it off very quickly.

I have not yet had to do that.

You only have a few hairs on your face. I was speaking of shaving a very full beard. My first husband could shave in the morning and need it again by the afternoon. He hated that so he decided to have a beard. His father was the same way and found shaving to be painful. He also had a beard.

I do not presently wear make up. The only problem with that is that people often ask me if I am sick. If I put on lipstick and a little eyeliner, no one ever asks me if I am sick. I am pretty pale. I have natural dark circles under my eyes and my lips are pale.

I do get tired of being asked if I have some malignancy. Generally, I say,"I am not sick. It's just my face."

My favorite is, "Are you all right?"

"I am fine."

"You look sick."

"I'm not sick. This is my face."

I mean, damn.

It is almost worth adding a bit of artificial color to keep the wolves at bay. Not much. Not clown foundation with Tammy Baker eyes. Just enough so that the sick questions stop.

Are you sick? No, I just have no eyelashes and my skin and eyes are pale. My lips have no color. I am pasty. Kind of like Marilyn Manson -- except he has to put on make-up to look sick. I look sick naturally.

I have had "boyfriends" who claimed to despise make up on women who thought that I was ill when they saw me without it.

Message is -- "Make up sucks. By the way, you look worse than Marilyn Manson. How long have you had leukemia?

Faizi

[DHodges]

To spend time in front of a mirror altering your appearance for the sake of having thoughtless, shallow people think more highly of you is very undignified, and must be classed as a form of insanity.

Well, that's kind of harsh. Couldn't it also be argued that to take no note at all of the effect your appearance has on other people, could also be a form of insanity? If you are very disheveled, you can certainly look crazy.

What people think of you can have a lot of practical consequences, especially for those of us who have to have a job. What my boss (for example) thinks of me can have a very direct impact on my bonus, my annual raise, and indeed my continued working here. (There is a dress code, although it's fairly lax.)

For a while - about ten years ago - I let my hair grow very long. I found that people didn't take me seriously. My opinion carried less weight, simply because of the length of my hair. So I get it cut, or occasionally I cut it myself; I keep it to a short to medium length. (In my line of work, what I have to offer is essentially my opinion, which is only worth anything if people feel they can put some trust in it.) To me, the hair cutting thing is more of a bother than shaving is.

As Marsha pointed out, sometimes its a lot less bother to go along with some minor thing - like shaving, or getting your hair cut - than to deal with the consequences of being poorly groomed.
I think, as always, it comes back to ego. There may be practical reasons why you need to look a certain way, rather than just a need to impress people. If you ever need to go to court, especially, it will serve you well to look like a well-groomed, responsible citizen, and not like you slept on a park bench. I've seen "he's a responsible member of the community" used as a defense, apparently effectively.

I have had "boyfriends" who claimed to despise make up on women who thought that I was ill when they saw me without it.

With women, makeup is so ubiquitous that you can forget that it is there. If that's the only way you ever see a woman, then you assume that's what she looks like. Well-applied makeup is supposed to look natural, make you look better without drawing attention to itself. (Usually. I have no explanation for blue eye shadow.)

[avidaloca]

DHodges wrote:

sometimes its a lot less bother to go along with some minor thing - like shaving, or getting your hair cut - than to deal with the consequences of being poorly groomed.

I don't think David Quinn will mind me saying that when he was looking for an apartment last year, he got knocked back at least once for his appearance. Apparently the landlord's wife didn't want him there because of his clothes and long beard, because he had the deal sewn up with the landlord until the meeting with his wife made it fall through. So there are practical consequences to looking unkempt.

[MKFaizi]

Boo-hoo for David.

Yet, he has always claimed that white people are superior. His beard and whatever other philosophical make up he wears is applied by choice.

What about skin color and ethnic group?

Years ago, my Paki husband and I approached a house that had a "For Rent" sign in the window. A white man looked out the window. He took the sign down. Before we got to the steps, he opened the door and said, "We have already rented it."

As a white man, David could put on matching clothes and shave his beard and act white polite and he could get what he wants.

Brown skin is a permanent beard that you can't shave off. No expensive suit or clean shaved face can undo it. You can have a Ph.d but, if you're brown, you're brown.

Faizi

[Jamesh]

Yet, he has always claimed that white people are superior.

I don't recall him ever saying this since I've been here. But if he did then I'd agree. It is not that non-white/asian folk are necessarily genetically superior (for rational thinking) but merely that they ONCE were trained to be less emotional than the non-whites. That is no longer the case, so we can expect a big decline in the next 100 years and someone else can take over the mess we leave.

[avidaloca]

Jamesh wrote:

It is not that non-white/asian folk are necessarily genetically superior (for rational thinking) but merely that they ONCE were trained to be less emotional than the non-whites.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

It is true that David regards people of African descent to have contributed nothing to philosophy, art or science.

It is also true that he thinks Asians are "like ants".

[David Quinn]

Dave Hodges wrote:

DQ: To spend time in front of a mirror altering your appearance for the sake of having thoughtless, shallow people think more highly of you is very undignified, and must be classed as a form of insanity.

DH: Well, that's kind of harsh. Couldn't it also be argued that to take no note at all of the effect your appearance has on other people, could also be a form of insanity? If you are very disheveled, you can certainly look crazy.

What people think of you can have a lot of practical consequences, especially for those of us who have to have a job. What my boss (for example) thinks of me can have a very direct impact on my bonus, my annual raise, and indeed my continued working here. (There is a dress code, although it's fairly lax.)

Obviously, if you want to have a fairly hassle-free life and be promoted swiftly up the social ladder, you're going to have "play the game". That means not only altering your appearance to make it more conformist and less threathening, but also altering your personality as well. All the rough edges have to be shaved away from your speech and behaviour, including most, if not all, of your truthful thoughts.

Is the money and increased social status worth all the degradation involved in constantly diluting one's personality in this way? That's the question.

I always used to feel like a swindler whenever I dressed up in nice clothes and combed my hair. When others smiled at my spruced-up apearance and said, " Oh, you look nice!", I always felt like I was insulting them with these cude and obvious attempts to manipulate them. I thought the whole situation was very embarassing. Wearing nice clothes and combing one's hair is surely the height of disrespect towards others.

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[MKFaizi]

I do not get more money or social status for conforming to whatever. I am pretty much barely clinging to what is left of the bottom rung of the US middle class.

I definitely have no social status.

If I was on the nonexistant dole, I would look the same as I do now. I no longer own pretty dresses or shoes. I would brush my hair and wash my face whether I worked or not.

With or without make up, I do not have the sort of face that automatically wins people over.

Also, I cannot play office politics and I cannot keep my mouth shut to the truth. I am a very hard worker and I have mastered all aspects of my particular job and most aspects of the other jobs in my office -- excluding physician, of course. Consequently, I fill in for everyone. I run the length of the office -- very long office -- about one hundred times in a day.

The point is that no one gives a rat's ass how hard I work. I cannot play the game. I cannot, for the life of me, suck up. I cannot refrain from agitating my co-workers into what would be deemed negativity by the company, i.e., calling a spade a spade; calling attention to the fact that we are treated like slaves by capitalists who would gladly replace us with children or illegal immigrants, if they thought they could get away with it.

I had a conflict the other day with a receptionist who was very rude to a patient. I have zero tolerance for human beings being treated like shit for the pretense of a goddamn buck -- especially in a medical setting -- so called. I chewed the receptionist for her treatment of this person who needed to be seen by a doctor and who was refused by an asshole -- especially when this person always pays her co-pay and has good insurance. AND we were not busy.

Stupid me. I just kind of think treating people rudely is bad for business - especially in a small community. Beyond that, I think it is immoral.

I worked forty-five hours this week -- not because I wanted to work forty five hours but because I have to fill in for my co-workers who get a day or two off a week. I generally work about five hours overtime a week because the rest of the people can afford to have a day or two off. I can't.

Point is -- guess who is most likely to get fired? The rude receptionist? No. She is good friends with our supervisor and she has the doctor wrapped.

I am most likely to get fired. Been there, done that. I know the routine. It is not how well you do the job. It is how well you play the game.

I could look like Jessica Simpson and it would not matter. You can't play the game, you can't play the game. Make-up does not have anything to do with it. If you can't play the suck up game, not even big boobs can get past it.

I have trouble with medicine as pure capitalism. I do think that doctors deserve a very good income -- the responsibility of human life is a huge responsibility. That responsibility should be compensated.

Then, greed is greed. When you work with human life, you are not selling software or hubcaps or jellybeans. Medicine is becoming nothing more than scamming -- not just by the insurance companies -- but by some doctors.

I have a problem with that. I am starting to feel like I work in a factory.

Guess who got in "trouble" for the receptionist's rudeness?

The receptionist? HHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHHAAAAAAAHHAHHAHHHA!!!!!!!

She sucked up appropriately. I was wrong for defending the patient. I was told that I was wrong by the doctor. I did have on a little lipstick at the time. Did no good whatsoever. I was even wearing deodorant.

You can't play the society game, you can't play it. Just like that. The receptionist is just as old as I am and uglier. But she is excellent at toeing the company line.

I believe in medicine as a benefit for humankind. I have to have money to live so I want my company to make a profit. I think it is fair for people to pay co-pays. I am not interested in making the stinking CEO of my company a filthy rich man and that is exactly what is going on.

I had no lunch break yesterday and none today. Today, we spent lunch sewing up a man's hand. I had to stay a half hour over to call in urgent prescriptions. I had thirty five phone messages that I could not answer. Well, I could have answered them had I worked off the clock and stayed until ten o'clock. I would have done that except by five-thirty, I was pretty well burned.

Ah. The working life is so good. Just cut your hair and trim your beard and wear a little lip stick and you get a three figure salary. It's great. I would not go on the nonexistant dole for the world.

I have a feeling that I will get fired in the next year or two. I need to work somewhere that medicine is as important as putting big bucks into a CEO's pocket. I don't mind making the money for a capitalist as long as medicine is not compromised; as long as the workers are treated with dignity.

I just don't know where.

My feeling is that the my current employer is going to fuck up and kill somebody for the sake of a twenty dollar co-pay. When they do, well, I will not be surprised.

Work is a bitch. No reward at all. I work because I have to work. If I did not, I would not.

I know that others have written here to say that it is easy to get the dole in the US. Not for me.

Work has nothing to do with my appearance. I would look the same whether I worked or not.

Faizi

[avidaloca]

MKFaizi writes:

I am pretty much barely clinging to what is left of the bottom rung of the US middle class.

I definitely have no social status.

I worked forty-five hours this week.

Work is a bitch. No reward at all. I work because I have to work. If I did not, I would not.

I know that others have written here to say that it is easy to get the dole in the US. Not for me.

Neither Kevin nor David have worked 45 hours a week for the last quarter of a century. I guess that makes you and them rather strange bedfellows.

These days the government are sure to make you work for the dole if you are under 50 and have been on it for six months, but back in the heyday they let you wallow in it squalidy for years on end if you so chose.

[Unidian]

Faizi,

What you are saying rings very true. Working sucks, especially under the capitalist religion.

Go on disability. If you have personality "issues," you can probably qualify with a bit of thoughtful attention to the application.

Or, be like so many people and continue to talk (accurately) about how much work sucks while continuing to work. Your choice.

[David Quinn]

It's a bit like how people keep talking about how they hate Christmas and yet keep immersing themselves in it each year.

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