Non-lethal ways to obtain music...

[Dan Rowden]

Hey everyone,

Does anyone know of any file sharing sites or software or other ways to obtain free music that doesn't require Homeland Security's intervention to guarantee your security? I used to get music I needed through Limewire, but it's now just a dumping ground for trojans and sundry ad-spyware. Bearshare is scary as its uninstall doesn't work.

I can't get the particular music I currently want via torrents so I'm looking for alternatives.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[Animus]

I dunno man, you might be fishing! Alright, I'll trust ya.

No idea. Just torrents.

[Robert]

Dan, searching through blogs is good way to find a lot of music that's often available through direct download (via mediafire, rapidshare, etc).
Start off in google, type the name of the artist and/or track, then place "rapidshare.com/files/" (with the inverted commas), e.g. Frank Sinatra My Way "rapidshare.com/files/" . It's f-ing amazing what you can find sometimes. You can add "mediafire.com/files/" or "filefactory.com/files/" etc for different results.

The legality of this is, of course, open to debate. The only real difference is that this method is direct downloads, and not peer to peer or torrent activity.

http://totallyfuzzy.blogspot.com/ is a good site that regroups on a daily basis music posts from various blogs and from various styles.

[Ryan Rudolph]

Dan,

There are two newer programs that seem to be taking the place of Limewire. Actually, each one shares much of the same source code as Limewire, and pulls searches off the same pier to pier Gnutella network.

Here are two download links - both are safe, as they are from cnet: but as far as spyware and functionality, I'm not sure because I haven't used either one, although there appears to be high weekly downloads, and most of the reviews are fairly positive.

Frostwire:
http://download.cnet.com/FrostWire/3000 ... 27624.html

Mp3Rocket:
http://download.cnet.com/MP3-Rocket/300 ... 05292.html

[Dan Rowden]

Thanks guys. I'm checking out those options. My experience has been, the last year or so, that the Windows based Gnutella network is awash with fake files and spyware etc (not the software itself).

[David Quinn]

I've had no problems with Pirate Bay.

-

[Animus]

Another way to obtain music is to use vixy.net and extract the audio track from an online video.

[Ryan Rudolph]

yeah, Pirate's bay is good, I use that too, although ISOHUNT is one of my favorite torrent sites, especially if you search for PBS documentaries or science programs. It's good for movies as well. Actually, I recently watched Kevin's Spacey's K-pax off that site - its an oldie, but a goodie.

FYI movie lovers - sometimes individuals will temporarily host movies, science shows and other documentaries on youtube until the admins spot the copyright infringement and then they remove them, although there is a program called youtube downloader that will download content directly from the youtube website, and it has also a built in video converter that will convert from flash video to a variety of different formats. The quality isn't on par with a torrent site, but it does the trick - especially for rare things.

Youtube Downloader:
http://download.cnet.com/YouTube-Downlo ... ?tag=mncol

[DHodges]

I'm reporting you all to... shit, who do you report this to?

I'm calling your mothers.

[Ryan Rudolph]

hey Dhodges, didn't you get the memo? its no longer fashionable to pay money for digitized media and information...

[Tomas]

.


Can't help you out there but here's something out of The Netherlands.

http://www.radioseagull.nl

PS - You may be a bit too long-in-the-tooth for this music..

[Shahrazad]

Ryan said,

hey Dhodges, didn't you get the memo? its no longer fashionable to pay money for digitized media and information...

Music is free, but up-to-date and up-to-the-minute information will always be worth paying for.

[Dan Rowden]

I respect the idea of copyright for and within a commercial context, but to have to pay for a piece of music or obtain copyright for educational or general non-commercial reasons strikes me as petty. Youtube has already canned two of my videos over music copyright.

I'm revolting! But then, you knew that...

[Dan Rowden]

Make that 3 videos. Seems Warner Music Group will not allow Youtube to have any of its copyrighted material, up to and including a girl singing Winter Wonderland at her piano.

[DHodges]

hey Dhodges, didn't you get the memo? its no longer fashionable to pay money for digitized media and information...

Yes, it is very unfashionable, but I do it anyway. I buy physical CDs.

Should I join the Quakers or the Amish?

[Ryan Rudolph]

Dhodges,

Yes, it is very unfashionable, but I do it anyway. I buy physical CDs

.

then one must ask: is it unethical to steal music and media? I would say no. Only because film makers and musicians still make enough money to survive far above the world average.

Basically, they are still able to put bread on the table.

Eventually, survival will become so easy that creative individuals will create works of art merely for the enjoyment, or for the hope of adding beauty or inspiring others to become wiser in their daily lives, rather than for maximizing profits.

I think the more mature one gets, the more secondary the concept of profit in business becomes. It is still necessary, but not paramount. Profit becomes a tool to fund a goal, vision, or pragmatic affair, rather than an instrument to accumulate material things.

Humanity will get a huge shock when nanotechnology eventually allows us to transform certain types of matter into other other types. Essentially, I can envision emptying a pile of rubbish into a machine, and getting a meal on the other side. When this happens, the economy as we know it will cease to be, and people's materialistic values will become meaningless and outdated.

[Carl G]

Dhodges,

Yes, it is very unfashionable, but I do it anyway. I buy physical CDs

.

then one must ask: is it unethical to steal music and media? I would say no. Only because film makers and musicians still make enough money to survive far above the world average.

It is not unethical to steal from musicians, you say, because they still make enough money from fools like Dhodges (and me)?

to survive far above the world average

So, you're suggesting musicians that can't afford the rent in Detroit should move to Ethiopia where the living costs are lower?

Basically, they are still able to put bread on the table.

Some are and a lot aren't, through their music. Maybe you're suggesting that if they can't put bread on the table by selling to fools like hodges and me, they should get a second job, so you can continue to steal from them. You said it was okay to steal, remember?

Eventually, survival will become so easy that creative individuals will create works of art merely for the enjoyment, or for the hope of adding beauty or inspiring others to become wiser in their daily lives, rather than for maximizing profits.

That will be after the world economic meltdown and the greatest financial depression in memory, right? Long after?

I think the more mature one gets, the more secondary the concept of profit in business becomes. It is still necessary, but not paramount. Profit becomes a tool to fund a goal, vision, or pragmatic affair, rather than an instrument to accumulate material things.

So, it's not really secondary, is it. Profit in business is just as important, in the mature view, it is simply spent on other things.

Humanity will get a huge shock when nanotechnology eventually allows us to transform certain types of matter into other other types. Essentially, I can envision emptying a pile of rubbish into a machine, and getting a meal on the other side. When this happens, the economy as we know it will cease to be, and people's materialistic values will become meaningless and outdated.

Hey, idea: perhaps you can create some profits writing visionary science fiction. There's a good market for it.

[brokenhead]

I use demonoid, isohunt, etc for torrents, but eMule is still a good source. Is that the same P2P network as Gnutella?

[brokenhead]

hey Dhodges, didn't you get the memo? its no longer fashionable to pay money for digitized media and information...

Yes, it is very unfashionable, but I do it anyway. I buy physical CDs.

Should I join the Quakers or the Amish?

No, they wouldn't let you play the music you bought.
Here's a thought. When I was a teenager, I spent lots of $ on hi-fi stereo equipment to get the best sound. Now, people are willing to settle for mp3 condensed music over ear buds. That, and most of the music is worse now, so what does it matter. At least Hodges is listening to better sound.

[DHodges]

Here's a thought. When I was a teenager, I spent lots of $ on hi-fi stereo equipment to get the best sound. Now, people are willing to settle for mp3 condensed music over ear buds. That, and most of the music is worse now, so what does it matter. At least Hodges is listening to better sound.

I went through a "stereophile" phase, perhaps fifteen years ago, where I bought some very good equipment. It all still sounds great today.

My tiny office setup would no doubt be considered hilarious overkill by some, with the tiny ZVEX tube amp and all.

[DHodges]

then one must ask: is it unethical to steal music and media? I would say no. Only because film makers and musicians still make enough money to survive far above the world average.

So you only steal from rich musicians, then? Certainly there is no such thing as a poor struggling artist.

There are cases where it may be justified to steal from the rich; if there is some greater need that over-rides property rights. For instance, if your family is starving, it might be justified to steal some food from a rich family that won't even miss it.

This is obviously not such a case. You are just stealing because you can; you don't have any pressing need for stolen media. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. You understand that this is theft. You called it that.

This seems like such a basic ethical idea that I am kind of shocked I even have to say it: Don't steal.


(Of course this is easy for me to say. I can afford to be a patron of the arts. Your situation is different. Right?)

[Ryan Rudolph]

Dhodges,

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. You understand that this is theft. You called it that.

This seems like such a basic ethical idea that I am kind of shocked I even have to say it: Don't steal.

I don't even really consider it a moral issue to steal from successful artists. Any mp3 I have ever downloaded has been from artists who were already financially successful, much more than myself. I make less than $30,000/per year, and most successful artists are millionaries, so they have enough money to live comfortably without ever working again, as long as they don't do anything stupid. So no, I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. The artists who usually make a big deal out of copyright issues are greedy and petty. Like Metallica - they are already multi-millionaires, who cares.

Metallica actually spent millions of dollars to take people to court who downloaded their music illegally, which is arrogant and naive in my opinion, because they honestly believe they can change the present trend for free information/media/video on the internet.

It would be like putting your life savings into trying to stop a tidal wave from hitting the beach shore.

[Carl G]

Metallica actually spent millions of dollars to take people to court who downloaded their music illegally, which is arrogant and naive in my opinion, because they honestly believe they can change the present trend for free information/media/video on the internet.

You are right, Ryan. Successful artists don't deserve to be paid for their art. Once they have succeeded financially (from patrons like hodges and me) they should give it away for free (especially to less successful customers, like you). Makes perfect sense. Once a person is successful their creativity becomes worthless, they owe to the world to give their art for free. Most important, it's what the masses want.

Besides, in the future we will make music with the touch of a few buttons, there won't be any cost, so all music will be free, anyway. There will be no such thing as a professional musician, or a professional anything, for that matter. We will all be people of leisure and learning; robots and other technology will do the work. So, in fact we are doing musicians a favor now by stealing their tunes, helping bring a better future into the present. Hmm, yah, I think I'll give the world a present and find where I can download the new U2 CD for nothing!

[brokenhead]

I think I'll give the world a present and find where I can download the new U2 CD for nothing!

No shit, I didn't know they had a new album out? What's it called? I want to download it.

I think the problem here is that the ethics are much more slippery on this issue than on others, say, murder. When I was a teenager, I thought nothing of taping a borrowed LP on my cassette deck. Everybody did it, and there was no public debate over its moral ramifications, let alone the legality. Today, downloading an mp3 is the same thing in many ways, but the crucial difference is that one source can supply hundreds or thousands of copies, instead of just a few.

I contend that if it were held to be wrong back then, then it would be a non issue now.

Just so everyone is clear on the subject, people who download copyrighted music are being sued. It is very simple for an agent of the copyright holder of any software or music file to identify you. All they have to do is download it themselves. The bit torrent clients show you the IP addresses of all the seeders and leechers of a shared file. This is traceable through your ISP to you. The agent just has to identify as many trackers as he can. The same thing is true for non-torrent P2P networks, like the eMule and Gnutella networks.

[brokenhead]

Besides, in the future we will make music with the touch of a few buttons, there won't be any cost, so all music will be free, anyway.

I listen to Howard Stern and he often has musical guests on his show. He is a brilliant interviewer because he understands the business world enough to ask the right questions.

As I hear the artists and music company producers discuss the finances of the music scene, it is clear to me that the record companies have taken the biggest hit. Bands make money in different ways now. They sell ring tones, for example. They have to tour more and play live.

Maybe the music business has changed so much that real talent cannot be scouted by the record companies anymore. There is nothing in it for them. It is now up to the individual artists to find a way to promote what they do.

But it looks like the big pay days for music stars might be a thing of the past.

People tend not to spend their money on something they can get for nothing. It used to be that if you really liked a song, the only way to make sure you could hear it when you wanted to was to buy the CD. Now not only can you download that song for free, but while you are at it, you download the artist's entire discography. In addition, if you have reservations about getting everything for free and you have decided not do download any music, you can still hear the song any time you want by going to Youtube.

The legality of all this is murky. Is it legal to visit Youtube? Some videos on Youtube are clearly legal to watch. How do you know which ones are not? The minute you decide to view any Youtube video, you have placed a copy of it on your local machine. That is, you are not just watching a copyrighted video, you are downloading it. If it is a music video you have watched, then you have just received stolen goods, right?