Thomas Jefferson

[ZenMuadDib]

Dear site moderators,

Would you perhaps consider adding Thomas Jefferson to list of geniuses? Here is a link to site with fragments of his writings. It appears that he was able to see past the limited knowledge of his time and see a much larger picture.

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quo ... ffcont.htm

This quote in particular caught my eye,

"The evidence of [the] natural right [of expatriation], like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817. ME 15:124

[Shahrazad]

Who is the King of Kings?

[ZenMuadDib]

Who is the King of Kings?

Who would you suppose that is?

[Shahrazad]

I'd rather ask than assume.

The concept of a personal deity is not genius worthy.

[ZenMuadDib]

I'd rather ask than assume.

The concept of a personal deity is not genius worthy.

What makes you feel you have some kind of authority to make that claim?

[ZenMuadDib]

I'd rather ask than assume.

The concept of a personal deity is not genius worthy.

How can you possibly judge the man, or anyone on that one thing?

[sear]

"Would you perhaps consider adding Thomas Jefferson to list of geniuses?" ZMD

Well, they let me in. So they don't seem too particular.
Tell this Jefferson fellow if he wants in, to just start posting.
If his cyber-company becomes objectionable, I'm sure the Mods. (if any) and the Admin. can handle it.

[ZenMuadDib]

"Would you perhaps consider adding Thomas Jefferson to list of geniuses?" ZMD

Well, they let me in. So they don't seem too particular.
Tell this Jefferson fellow if he wants in, to just start posting.
If his cyber-company becomes objectionable, I'm sure the Mods. (if any) and the Admin. can handle it.

Why is everyone here so...frivolous?

[Shahrazad]

What makes you feel you have some kind of authority to make that claim?

Does a person need authority to express an opinion?

Why is everyone here so...frivolous?

A lot of people here aren't frivolous at all. But it is unlikely that those posters will reply to your request. Around here, only philosophers get to be geniuses.

-

[DHodges]

We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings.

Although here (and in other quotes) he appeals to natural rights as coming from God, that is not necessary to a concept of natural rights. It can be taken metaphorically as meaning that rights arise from man's nature, or from Nature more generally. In other places Jefferson, and other thinkers, present rights arising from nature without appeal to a diety.

Natural rights are very important from the point of view of political philosophy, they have no bearing on enlightenment or "Genius" in the sense it is used on this forum. (And I suspect there are some on this forum who would object very strongly to some of Jefferson's ideas.)

"Shake off all the fears and servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." --Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1787. ME 6:258 Papers 12:15

[sear]

"Why is everyone here so...frivolous?" ZMD

Please don't judge the entire group harshly by the comment of one person.

shahrazad is right.
And I add, topics probably usually get the seriousness they deserve.

Is there some matter of significant consequence in this thread that I'm not aware of?

I doubt TJ's genius is in doubt.
Do you really think the author of the U.S. Declaration of Independence doesn't get enough recognition?

Why genuflect to Jefferson? Wouldn't recognizing John Locke make more sense?

I'm a fan of Jefferson's myself, despite his manifold flaws.
But despite my unyielding appreciation for his contributions to humanity, I'm not worked up enough about it to get his name added to a list.

Thus my puzzlement. Why are you?
A relative perhaps?

[brokenhead]

He was a slave owner.

[brokenhead]

Around here, only philosophers get to be geniuses.

LOL I'll keep that in mind from now on!

[sear]

"He was a slave owner." broke

Thus my comment: "... despite his manifold flaws."

Not only was he a slave owner. Genetic testing seems to prove he had sex with Sally Hemmings.
And in my opinion, a slave can't consent to such thing any more than a minor can.

And though other U.S. Founders freed their slaves as a bequest; Jefferson did not.

And yet he was quite a guy; perhaps even a genius.

from sear's notes:

Thomas Jefferson wrote the rough draft of the DOI; John Adams and Ben Franklin were the editors.
Jefferson originally wrote:

"We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable ..." Jefferson

Franklin expresses his reservation about that phrasing to Jefferson. Franklin explained; we're founding a new country. It's not based on assertions of religion. It's based on assertions of reason. We should reflect that religious tolerance in this writing.
source: Walter Isaacson: author of: Benjamin Franklin: An American Life

Ben Franklin was a genius.